choosing my first rifle

[cbs]

Hi all, Im new to hog hunting and am very interested in buying my first rifel,(use to shotguns) Im looking at buying a winchester model
70 but cant decide what caliber to choose, I like the super short 223 & 243, or should I stick to a standered 270wsm,7mm-wsm,300wms?
I would like a strong caliper so I may use this for deer, but I dont need A big game gun, I want to choose a good all around caliper as this is my first rifle, thanks all for your advise

[aceoky]

First(and perhaps most important) find a rifle that fits YOU...feels good to YOU. Hogs can get huge and are very dangerous especially when they're wounded so I'd want "more gun" than a .223 or .243(the .243 is an awesome deer rifle..might not be enough for a large hog )

I think it would be a mistake to start out with ANY of the mags(short or otherwise)...the recoil/muzzleblast can teach you very bad habits hard to break(such as flinching) and they shouldn't be needed for what you're looking for.

Any of the "all around calibers" should do just fine 7mm-08(wife just bought one for herself....it's an awesome rifle!)....270 .308 and if recoil(kick) doesn't bother you too much 30/06(shotguns are different with a rifle ONE bullet has to hit the "target" to get the job done..if you're worried about the gun's kick you most likely won't ever shoot very well with a rifle)[:)]
I hope that's enough to "get you started"!{:D]

<hr noshade size="1">
I'd rather be lucky than good any day!!

Reloaders Haul Brass!

[Larry Carter]

Hogs can be tough but my Texas buddies use varmint caliber rifles for the most part. Agree that the new Short mags won't be a great choice for a first gun. Shells won't be real cheap or in every little shop around. Putting enough rounds through whatever gun you choose is more important than any paper ballistic chart.
All the old standard calibers [243,270,308,30/06]have been around awhile because they work for lots of people in lots of situations. Some of the newer calibers,like the 7mm/08 mentioned are dandies too.If you are going to shoot a lot of practise rounds the 308 is a good all around choice. Lots of good surplus military ammo avaiable at a price that won't break the bank for a day's paper punching.

[ksp965]

Also consider the terrain you are going to be hunting in. Will you be shooting at long distances or closeup? Hunting in mountainous terrian, my son took his first hog with a .44 ruger carbine. It did the job well, was pleasant to shoot, and had extra rounds to back himself up with. But I was also there to back him up. Something to think about. Hogs are not magical, but they are unbelievably tough and tenacious. In close shooting conditions I think that there are several moderate calibers that will suffice nicely without to much recoil, (like the 30-30 and the .35 Remington, for example). The important part is to place your shot well the first time, even if it means passing up a shot to be sure of the shot you take. And be sure to hunt with a buddy..., (especially one that you can outrun!)

[scsims]

Can't beat a .270 it's good for anything from ground hogs to Elk. Kick is mild as well. I never shot a hog with it but it takes whitetails down very efficently.

[RDL270]

scsims, I'll agree the 270 is a pretty versatle cartride and I know mine has taken everything from whitetails, muleys, proghorn and elk, but I think its marginal on elk. I don't care what O'connor wrote..I think for elk you need a little more umph. But for what cbs is wanting it will fit the bill. Lot of good advice already posted, not a whole lot I can add. Just pick one and practice, practice practice. Its not the bullet or the caliber, its shot placement..

[scsims]

I agree!!!!!

[CVN71 Ordnance]

I am partial to the 30-06, Works on them pesky yotes and good for a 200 yard shot on whitetail, Ammo is reasonable and is carried at almost every store.

GO NAVY!!!

[cbs]

Thanks for all who replyed, Im thinking of going with the 30-06,
I don't want a gun that kicks so hard Im going to regret taking out for pratice, But Im not afraid of recoil,(Im 37), I was told 30-06
is a very versatile choice, Is the 270 a magmun round? and I dont know much about the 7mm-08 either, (the more I learn the less I know)
But I will keep reading,(Ive got to dig out all my old american rifelman mags, As I only use to read them for the shotgunning articals)-never thought I would find an interest in rifels, after all these years around shotguns, feel like a kid again, keep writing!

P.S.to hell with michael moore!

[ksp965]

CBS, the 30-06 is a fine cartridge and is available in ever configeration of gun you can imagine. I've used one for years and have taken deer in ever possible shot. As an all around rifle there is nothing better and I wouldn't use anything else while I got my '06, (except for my S&W .44 revolver, but that's another thread). If the recoil doesn't bother you, select it and be secure in knowing you have a weapon in a caliber that can take everthing from ground squirrels to moose, and everthing in between. I suggest that if you haven't shot the '06 that you borrow or go target practicing with someone that has a '06 and will let you shoot it several times. For that matter, try shooting several of the guns in calibers mentioned in this thread, then decide.

[GSP]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">, I like the super short 223 & 243, or should I stick to a standered 270wsm,7mm-wsm,300wms?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

So you will know,270wsm,7mm-wsm,300wms are not "standard" rounds. Meaning, you won't find ammo just anywhere you look. Also, if and when you find it, you will pay dearly compared to the .223 & .243.
The 30-30, 270 & 30-06 are the most common and least expensive rounds you will find (not counting NATO FMJ ammo). Any will kill a hog, ground hog, yote or deer. The 270 &06 will roll about anything you'll ever see. I am a 'o6 fan.

[scsims]

270 is not a magnum round unless it is stated. Like gsp wrote 270 wsm wich is a Weatherby magnum. If I'm not mistaken Lazoronni may have a 270 mag as well. I may have mispelled him name.



I forgot about the wsm being winchester short magnum.

[VinVega]

270wsm is Winchester Short Magnum, different from Weatherby Mags. 270win is NOT magnum, and basically the same thing as a 30-06, except smaller projectile. I'd say give it a try, slightly less recoil than an '06, but just as good knockdown power. But, if you're no fan of recoil, avoid large calibers all together for a first rifle. I made that mistake, and bought a .270win as my first rifle, and it kicked like a mule on steroids, made me flinch so hard I was afraid of the SKS, which is like half the kick. Whatever you pick, it'll take some getting used to in order to shoot well enough to kill a hog or deer.

[aceoky]

.270= the 30/06 "necked down" to .270 bullet rather than the .308(30 caliber)......the 7mm-08 is a .308 caliber necked down to 7mm(.284)...(for more info the .243 is a .308 necked down to 6mm....(.243 caliber) I'm an /06 fan and have shot one for many years...IMHO it's almost impossible to beat one on this side of the ocean..it'll take(and has ) everything that walks/runs ; ammo is available EVERYWHERE you can buy any rifle ammo; hunting weight bullets from 150-165-180-200-225 grains will handle anything from deer/antelope to moose/brown. bear. This is another strong point of the ole /06 plenty of factory ammo available for almost any critter you're likely to ever hunt.

The .270 is a great round also,(shoots a bit flatter than an /06) but given the max bullet weight it DOESN'T pack the potential power of the /06 (look at ME and energy downrange and you'll find that is true)

BTW Jack O'Conner was actually a bigger fan of the /06 than the .270(but he was smart enough to write about a "new caliber" than to say what had been said many times before) FWIW [:D]

<hr noshade size="1">
I'd rather be lucky than good any day!!

Reloaders Haul Brass!

[shogan]

Stop right there!

I'm here to tell you that a 30-06 KICKS like a MULE.

Slightly more than a 270 and about the same as 300.

Check out this site
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table_exp.htm

Now I think a 30-30 would be a great intro into the rifle low on recoil and BIG on knock down upto 150-200 yards depending on your skill. If you want more distance than the 308 can give you that (with still less recoil than 270 and 30-06.

However if Hog is the mane game then somthing with fast reloading (like a 30-30 marlin or semi-auto 308)would warrant consideration.

I jumped up from a 30-30 to a 30-06 thinking I was moving up to a superior cartridge (and thinking I needed to take 300++ yard shots). Well it costs a lot more to shoot and kicks a lot more. After much consideration I would have gone with a 308 instead.

[luckyshot]

I would say ace hit the nail on the head. As for the 243wsm, you shouldn't be able to buy one. They are haveing a small problem with the chamber exploding. The only round that made a dramatic improvement by being a short mag is the 270. It gained a couple of inches where the rest only gained tenths. Also the average hunter will never notice the difference in accuracy between a short mag and a standard load. The most important thing you have to remember is that a deer is scared of you and will run away, a hog is scared and will run towards you. Keep this in mind when shopping for a weapon. I have never hunted hogs but I have worked at hog farms and I wouldn't hunt the mean b$%@&^ds with anything smaller than a 30 caliber. I would also pack a 44 mag with me just in case it got real ugly.lol

"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." the Constitution

[cbs]

Hey all, Ok got me a speer reloading manual #13 today, getting much better educated on my previous dumb questions, as-well, you have all helped me, And more then ever this book is making me go for the 30-06,
About the advise of choosing a 30-30, the only reason I find to choose It would be low recoil, and thats not enough reason for me to choose a gun, so what about all these kick-but 30-06 hand loading combinations that I can make up? Looks good, what about making up
some 100-110 grain 1/2 jaket plinkers, Is this an acceptable way to
learn and start practicing, or will this teach me bad habbits?
Lastly, Tell me whats a good gun deal, I don't belive my local gun dealers(bad economy makes people sell)I want a stainless/composit with scope package, Thanks all keep replying!!!

[aceoky]

<b>Looks good, what about making up
some 100-110 grain 1/2 jaket plinkers, Is this an acceptable way to
learn and start practicing, or will this teach me bad habbits? </b>

The only problem *I* see with that is: some rifles just won't shoot the lighter bullets well enough(those light bullets are just too short to be accurate).(since a bullet must be caliber size; the only way to make one lighter is to make it shorter....heavier=longer)[:)]

What might be much better is to go to http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/index.php and look at the "youth loads" (also good target/plinking) These should be very accurate with little recoil once you know what your rifle can do, go ahead and try the 100/110 grains and see how they shoot(my remington 700 ADL shoots them very well, I hear many do not)

Also a note on reduced loads: the H4895 is the ONLY powder you should use for these: it's been tested safe and any other powder can get you into SERIOUS pressure problems!!!(a reduced load can be more dangerous if done improperly than a MAX load!!!!) I haven't loaded these for the /06 yet, but have tested them quite a bit in the .243 that my (just turned 9 yrs old) son shoots and they shoot great and have plenty of power/accuracy....a really fun load to shoot/punch paper with!!!

I hope this is of some help to you: if you can use any more help; feel free to ask![:)]


<hr noshade size="1">
I'd rather be lucky than good any day!!

Reloaders Haul Brass!

[bearhoundsman]

you have to think of terain and range you will be shooting,
for close shooting in at least semi thick brush i'd choose a 30-30
they don't kick to bad and i've seen them perform on some big animals,
if shooting very much distance say 100 yards or better i'd pick up a 270, i've got one and it has done good on deer and fair sized hogs, haven't got a big one yet but i'm still looking. hope i helped some. i've not personally seen a 30-30 perform on a hog but i know it will handle bear around 300-350lbs

[cbs]

aceoky, thanks for the info on the youth ammo, I have never seen
light laods like this application, looks interesting, so maybe someday I could get my girlfriend shooting as well,

ok, maybe I dont really meanthat! sounds good on paper but...
Isn't that why they made guns... so I can get away!

please no angry replys...Im the HOG!!!

[aceoky]

You are very welcome! LOL; it's not so bad(my wife loves to shoot!)[:)]

<hr noshade size="1">
I'd rather be lucky than good any day!!

Reloaders Haul Brass!

[GSP]

Ok Ace, you have him hooked. Go ahead and land him, tell him to get a 7mm-08!!!!![:D][:D][:D][:D][^][^][^]

[aceoky]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by gsp</i>
<br />Ok Ace, you have him hooked. Go ahead and land him, tell him to get a 7mm-08!!!!![:D][:D][:D][:D][^][^][^]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

OK! [8D][:D][:D][:D][:D][^][:D][:D]

<hr noshade size="1">
I'd rather be lucky than good any day!!

Reloaders Haul Brass!