View Full Version : How about that finish!!!
kybowhunter64
02-18-2007, 07:07 PM
Wow that was a great finish to the race!!! If you missed it im sorry!!! That was great!!!!
That was crap:mad: . Once again NASCAR stops the race to run more commercials at the end. Martin should have won that race.
whitetailpredator
02-18-2007, 07:14 PM
I would like to be with art on this one, I wouldve loved to seen martin win. The best finisher was Boyer, on this top, on fire, and still finished the race!
gobbl4me
02-18-2007, 07:19 PM
I agree with art Mark should have won, but that was one heck of a finish.
carpenterguy
02-18-2007, 07:23 PM
poor mark... i was really hoping he could pull that one out! still a great finish though:D
maxcam
02-18-2007, 07:25 PM
Where did the toyotas finish......? :D
Where did the toyotas finish......? :D
Enjoy it while you can because you won't be saying that in a couple of years.;)
Southpaw
02-18-2007, 07:42 PM
Looks like the rumor might come true.If your going to lose you may as well get paid well.Jr will be in a toyota before you know it. I can see it know at Bristol here comes the budweiser camry in for the win....
gwhilikerz
02-18-2007, 07:45 PM
I gotta say maybe i am spitting sour grapes here, But i heard them say that Nascar was going to do a green, white, checkered restart and if there was another crash causing a caution the field would be immediately frozen. Martin expected the race to end when he saw the wreck behind him. That split second cost him dearly. I just wish nascar would set a rule then stand behind it.
Southpaw
02-18-2007, 07:45 PM
Enjoy it while you can because you won't be saying that in a couple of years.;)
You are so right.:) I thought it was interesting when they said on national tv today that the camry was the only american made car on the track today.The Fusion and Monte Carlo are products of Mettico and Canada eh...:D
You are so right.:) I thought it was interesting when they said on national tv today that the camry was the only american made car on the track today.The Fusion and Monte Carlo are products of Mettico and Canada eh...:D
Yep, we make the Camry right here so it seems to me like a lot of folks in KY would be pulling for them. They just need to land a couple big time drivers. I'm sure they will get a couple more on board for next season by late summer. If they pay enough, ANYONE will drive a Camry.
Duster
02-18-2007, 07:59 PM
I gotta say maybe i am spitting sour grapes here, But i heard them say that Nascar was going to do a green, white, checkered restart and if there was another crash causing a caution the field would be immediately frozen. Martin expected the race to end when he saw the wreck behind him. That split second cost him dearly. I just wish nascar would set a rule then stand behind it.
I have to agree with ya on that, when the wreck started Martin was ahead then got passed and got ahead again and passed at the finish line....Martin won that race under the nascar rules in place with all the supposed scoreing links and cameras it should have came out that way.
Southpaw
02-18-2007, 08:46 PM
Who would have ever thought Mikey and his camry would have finished nascars super bowl ahead of Dale Jr and Tony .:D
WoodsWhisperer
02-18-2007, 08:48 PM
I was for harvick, but before that last caution,when I didn't think harvick had a chance, I was hopin martin could hold on.. go harvick, another sweep....
AteUp
02-18-2007, 09:09 PM
They don't always throw the caution and freeze the field when a wreck occurs. It just depends on where the wreck occurred and what lap it's on. The reason the field is frozen is to allow the emergency responders to reach the wrecked vehicles asap. They would not have made it to them 1 second faster in this case, because the wreck was so close to the finish line. They throw a red flag to stop the race when it is a lengthy cleanup or it is close enough to the end that they can have a decent restart with enough laps remaining. Nobody wants to see a race end under caution if avoidable.
AteUp
02-18-2007, 09:16 PM
Just saw the video on wind Tunnel and when Kyle Busch started spinning, Harvick was actually a nose ahead.
gwhilikerz
02-18-2007, 10:24 PM
Just saw the video on wind Tunnel and when Kyle Busch started spinning, Harvick was actually a nose ahead.
I guess Martin should have been driving the viagra car today:)
maxcam
02-19-2007, 12:20 AM
Yep, we make the Camry right here so it seems to me like a lot of folks in KY would be pulling for them. They just need to land a couple big time drivers. I'm sure they will get a couple more on board for next season by late summer. If they pay enough, ANYONE will drive a Camry.
I thought Mikey was your big time driver! :rolleyes:
maxcam
02-19-2007, 12:21 AM
There will never be an Earnhardt in anything foreign owned you can bank on it!
naturalelite
02-19-2007, 02:13 AM
Just saw the video on wind Tunnel and when Kyle Busch started spinning, Harvick was actually a nose ahead.
They don't throw the caution as soon as they start spinning it takes them a second or two. :rolleyes:
I thought Mikey was your big time driver! :rolleyes:
Do you even watch nascar? Mikey sucks! Always has and always will. DJ is their best driver, but he's well past his prime. Right now Toyota doesn't have a driver that is capable of winning if they strapped a damn rocket to the car.. They couldn't win when they where in Ferd's and Chebbies either.
Don't worry, just give Toyota time. The thing you are forgetting is that NASCAR is all about money and NOTHING else and Toyota has more of it then the floundering big three. I wouldn't say never about anything in nascar when $$$ is on the line.
I hate to see them do the red flag thing every year. There's just something about it that pisses me off. I personally think it's more about the show then anything else. They said they threw the flag to clean up debris, so why did it take 30 minutes? That was not even a bad wreck?
ky_bull
02-19-2007, 07:07 AM
The first thing you learn as a kid playing sports is dont give up just because you think your going to be out. When your running to first base after hitting a grounder to the short stop you dont stop running halfway there because you think the ball will be thrown to first before you get there. No, you run as fast as you can till that umpire yells "OUT!!". You never know what will happen. Over or under thrown ball, dropped ball, etc... Martin never should have slowed up untill he seen the yellow flag, or that little yellow light inside of their car go off meaning there is a caution. Martin is a victim of what has kept him in second place almost his whole career, he doesnt have that killer instinct. I like Martin, hes a great driver, just not the most aggressive driver out there.
turk2di
02-19-2007, 07:32 AM
I for one was incensed that Nascar continously interupted my commercials with clips of a race:( I have no problem with Nascar allowing a race to end under a checkered flag, but i do mind when they r inconsistantly applied.Case in point, Jeff Gordons win( im a Gordon fan btw) at Talledega in fall 04( i believe) over Junior( the race where Gordons car was pelted on the back stretch) the caution flag was thrown as soon as the wreck commenced, giving Gordon a half car length win over Junior as the field was frozen. Martin should have won by about 1 foot, but a win is a win.
MsgMills
02-19-2007, 10:25 AM
I for one was incensed that Nascar continously interupted my commercials with clips of a race:(
Yeah, I agree as well..How dare they interupt all those fine and dandy Commercials with the very unapealing Daytona 500 race, whose cars go booogity, booogity, booogity down and around that track at close to 200 mph or more on average....The very thought of the interruptions...well I never.....
At least Poopy Pants finished 43rd.....yippppeeeeeee.........:D Even though he is a Hoosier...He's an attitude problem waiting to explode again this season...wait and see.....
th5isback5
02-19-2007, 12:07 PM
That was a great race. I was yellin for Martin to win. I just think that Kevin had a little bit more car then Martin, and like Mark said, Kevin had the perfered line to be in. What happend to all the top drivers. They started to get picked off as the race went on. But it was a great race
perrymax
02-19-2007, 01:21 PM
I'm not pulling for a Japanese car if they made them in my front yard!!!! It's a foreign car and a foreign company. Jarrett, Walthip, Blaney and Reutermann are not going to win races. Hopefully it will stay that way.
I'm not pulling for a Japanese car if they made them in my front yard!!!! It's a foreign car and a foreign company. Jarrett, Walthip, Blaney and Reutermann are not going to win races. Hopefully it will stay that way.
Toyota has done more for this state and the people of KY in the past 20 years then all the others combined. I for one will be pulling for Toyota since I have many friends and family that build the Camry 14 miles from my house, but I would need a passport to see where the other cars are made. Just exactly how foreign is the Camry? Dodge is owned by a German company and their car isn't even built in the US.
If a company helps the great people of KY as much as Toyota has then it will be a cold day in hell before I root against them.
th5isback5
02-19-2007, 01:54 PM
I have to agree with art. I hated the idea of jap. cars in nascar. But I have learend them cars are the only ones made in the united states. If i'm not mistaken ford and chevy are made in canada. So when they say nascar is an American sport, thier lieing.
buckdroppings
02-19-2007, 02:01 PM
There will never be an Earnhardt in anything foreign owned you can bank on it!
You'll never see a Earnhardt in anything but a Chevy!
You'll never see a Earnhardt in anything but a Chevy!
You guys might be right, but Earnhardt ain't out there because he has a good time, he's out there for the $$$. He'd drive the pink #69 Tampax Camry for the right price. I highly suspect you will see some big name drivers go to toyota in the next 2 years.
Southpaw
02-19-2007, 03:12 PM
There will never be an Earnhardt in anything foreign owned you can bank on it!
Did Dale Jr tell you that himself or is this in the closet nervous chatter...
maxcam
02-19-2007, 03:14 PM
Toyota has done more for this state and the people of KY in the past 20 years then all the others combined. I for one will be pulling for Toyota since I have many friends and family that build the Camry 14 miles from my house, but I would need a passport to see where the other cars are made. Just exactly how foreign is the Camry? Dodge is owned by a German company and their car isn't even built in the US.
If a company helps the great people of KY as much as Toyota has then it will be a cold day in hell before I root against them.
You are crazy......Ford employs more people in Kentucky than Toyota ever dreamed about employing.....Not to mention they have made alot more vehicles over the past 20 years....Can we say Ford Ranger, Explorer,Mountaineer, F 250 and up.....
maxcam
02-19-2007, 03:16 PM
You'll never see a Earnhardt in anything but a Chevy!
Actually thats not true....Sr did drive a Ford for a short period of time for tne Wood Brothers.....Saw it was a dead end job and switched to Chevy!
maxcam
02-19-2007, 03:17 PM
You guys might be right, but Earnhardt ain't out there because he has a good time, he's out there for the $$$. He'd drive the pink #69 Tampax Camry for the right price. I highly suspect you will see some big name drivers go to toyota in the next 2 years.
I think you have Earnhardt confused with Gordon there buddy....:D
Southpaw
02-19-2007, 03:21 PM
I think you have Earnhardt confused with Gordon there buddy....:D
It would be hard to confuse them !One has four championships and is about to break Sr Es record for wins all at the age of 36.Also its easy to know Gordon he is the one with a wife and a baby on the way.When was Jrs last championship ...Enough Said....
maxcam
02-19-2007, 03:28 PM
It would be hard to confuse them !One has four championships and is about to break Sr Es record for wins all at the age of 36.Also its easy to know Gordon he is the one with a wife and a baby on the way.When was Jrs last championship ...Enough Said....
Uh If Gordon can win 4 more championships this year he is The MAN....That is the only record Dale Earnhardt has.....76 victories is like 5th all time in the history Nascar.....Gordon needs about 125 more to beat the King Richard Petty for that record and to be honest Ild say he will be lucky to get 100....
Ive heard all the hype by you Gordon fans before......Its been 6 years since Gordon won a championship Ild say his days are numbered.....How many laps did he lead yesterday btw?
maxcam
02-19-2007, 03:31 PM
It would be hard to confuse them !One has four championships and is about to break Sr Es record for wins all at the age of 36.Also its easy to know Gordon he is the one with a wife and a baby on the way.When was Jrs last championship ...Enough Said....
How many kids does Mick Jagger have......Ill bet David Bowie didnt birth one of them! ;)
By the way you can be a homo and win the cup.....Ever hear of Allan Kulwiekie.....Ray Evernham use to be his crew chief too.....You know what they say about birds of a feather! :eek:
ryan hickey
02-19-2007, 03:33 PM
Uh If Gordon can win 4 more championships this year he is The MAN....That is the only record Dale Earnhardt has.....76 victories is like 5th all time in the history Nascar.....Gordon needs about 125 more to beat the King Richard Petty for that record and to be honest Ild say he will be lucky to get 100....
Ive heard all the hype by you Gordon fans before......Its been 6 years since Gordon won a championship Ild say his days are numbered.....How many laps did he lead yesterday btw?
gordon finished 12th yesterday in a piece of junk racecar. doesn't gordon have more total wins than senior? how many years did it take senior to win 7 championships? how many did it take gordon to win 4? i will NEVER, repeat NEVER understand y earnhardt fanz hate gordon so much, they never were that much of a rivalry on the track. its not like jeff wrecked senior on the last lap at bristol (like dale did to terry labonte TWICE!!) or anything...;)
You are crazy......Ford employs more people in Kentucky than Toyota ever dreamed about employing.....Not to mention they have made alot more vehicles over the past 20 years....Can we say Ford Ranger, Explorer,Mountaineer, F 250 and up.....
Which company has the #1 selling car and which plant has been shut down off and on over the past few months? Which one is breaking sales records while the other is closing plants and laying off workers while losing BILLIONS amid fears of the big B word? Which company is opening new plants while the other is closing them? Which company will still be around in 5 years?:cool:
maxcam
02-19-2007, 03:45 PM
Which company has the #1 selling car and which plant has been shut down off and on over the past few months? Which one is breaking sales records while the other is closing plants and laying off workers while losing BILLIONS amid fears of the big B word? Which company is opening new plants while the other is closing them? Which company will still be around in 5 years?:cool:
Hey art which one made the first production automobile? Which one made it possible for your father and his father to have a life.......
There is not one single innovation to come from Japan......Have you ever been to a manufacturers convention......Everyone I have ever been too you will see 40 or 50 Japs walking around with camcorders and cameras taking pictures with a team of snakes that then go up and start talking to salesmen to find out marketing info such as pricing and market targets.......Monkey see Monkey do.....We invent it they copy it......I have yet to see Toyota make a full size luxury car or full size pick-up that is superior to a Chevy or Ford.....That includes the Tundra....read about all the recalls the Tundra has had since 2000.....Transmissions, brakes, ball joints, steering......Camry is a good car but it aint no Lincoln or Cadillac .....
If you think The Ford Motor Company wont be around in 5 years you are sadly mistaken.....
maxcam
02-19-2007, 03:47 PM
Oh yeah since you wouldnt answer my original question .....
The TOP JAP CAR TO FINISH THE DAYTONA 500 WAS 22nd !!!!!!!!!
Still living in the past Maxcam? I've been doing my damnest to find you a time machine on ebay so you can go back to a time when all your thoughts make sense.:D
One word- Lexus;)
Can your crappy no resale value having Caddy park itself? I think not. Thank you, come again.
Recalls? Ford invented that word.
Oh yeah since you wouldnt answer my original question .....
The TOP JAP CAR TO FINISH THE DAYTONA 500 WAS 22nd !!!!!!!!!
One race and you're already writing them off? They don't even have good drivers or expericed teams and they still finished ahead of Stewart and Jr. The way I see it, there were still lots of Fords, Chebbies, and Dodges that finish well below the yota.
maxcam
02-19-2007, 04:04 PM
One race and you're already writing them off? They don't even have good drivers or expericed teams and they still finished ahead of Stewart and Jr. The way I see it, there were still lots of Fords, Chebbies, and Dodges that finish well below the yota.
Half of them couldnt even make the race and the half that did most have to wonder if they did it legally or not! :rolleyes:
Half of them couldnt even make the race and the half that did most have to wonder if they did it legally or not! :rolleyes:
Well, that was their first race. It sure sounds like you had ultra high expectations which I find strange since you seem to think Toyota is a second class company. Maybe you really don't think that at all? Hmmmmm.:D
maxcam
02-19-2007, 04:15 PM
Well, that was their first race. It sure sounds like you had ultra high expectations which I find strange since you seem to think Toyota is a second class company. Maybe you really don't think that at all? Hmmmmm.:D
Are you taking bets on the next one?
Are you taking bets on the next one?
Hellz no! I don't expect much out of them this season at all. The drivers they have didn't do it last year in the Chevy's and Ferds, so I doubt they would win if Ferrari entered NASCAR and hired them.
I think that expecting them to do much of anything in the first 2 races is insane, and I don't really think anyone should expect them to contend this year BUT you'd better watch out by about 2009. One of the big guys is going to have a crap season and come under fire with the team, owners, sponsors, ect.. and they'll be going right to Toyota... The only question is who's it going to be? That's when the wins will start.
maxcam
02-19-2007, 04:26 PM
Hellz no! I don't expect much out of them this season at all. The drivers they have didn't do it last year in the Chevy's and Ferds, so I doubt they would win if Ferrari entered NASCAR and hired them.
I think that expecting them to do much of anything in the first 2 races is insane, and I don't really think anyone should expect them to contend this year BUT you'd better watch out by about 2009. One of the big guys is going to have a crap season and come under fire with the team, owners, sponsors, ect.. and they'll be going right to Toyota... The only question is who's it going to be? That's when the wins will start.
Sure you might see an Elliot Sadler or a Jeremy Mayfield switch to the dark side and win "one" for them, but when do you see them running for a championship either as a manufacturer or as a team?
They will be luck to have 5 wins as a manufacturer total by 2009.....
Sure you might see an Elliot Sadler or a Jeremy Mayfield switch to the dark side and win "one" for them, but when do you see them running for a championship either as a manufacturer or as a team?
They will be luck to have 5 wins as a manufacturer total by 2009.....
Well, you have to do the math. What are the odds of winning a race or a championship when you're only running 1 1/2 legit drivers out of 43? Not good.
I can't say for sure, but I would think that they could be in the mix by as early as 09 or 10. It's all going to depend on how many good drivers they can land in the next 2 years. All you have to do is look at the truck series and that's probably a good indication of how things will unfold in the cup.
gwhilikerz
02-19-2007, 04:37 PM
You'll never see a Earnhardt in anything but a Chevy!
I'd just as soon never see an earnhardt.
I'd just as soon never see an earnhardt.
Just hang around women and that should do the trick.:D
Southpaw
02-19-2007, 05:56 PM
gordon finished 12th yesterday in a piece of junk racecar. doesn't gordon have more total wins than senior? how many years did it take senior to win 7 championships? how many did it take gordon to win 4? i will NEVER, repeat NEVER understand y earnhardt fanz hate gordon so much, they never were that much of a rivalry on the track. its not like jeff wrecked senior on the last lap at bristol (like dale did to terry labonte TWICE!!) or anything...;)
I know why Ryan. Its because when the wonder boy in the 24 came along.He dethroned the driver almighty.The nmbr 3 was a has been and never was to be seen again and they hate him to this day because of it.What a shame these Earnhardt fans are to the sport. The one good thing is Bic lighter sales will always stay up with them around and the words Git R done will be here also.:D
I know why Ryan. Its because when the wonder boy in the 24 came along.He dethroned the driver almighty.The nmbr 3 was a has been and never was to be seen again and they hate him to this day because of it.What a shame these Earnhardt fans are to the sport. The one good thing is Bic lighter sales will always stay up with them around and the words Git R done will be here also.:D
Now that's funny!:D :D
maxcam
02-19-2007, 10:51 PM
I know why Ryan. Its because when the wonder boy in the 24 came along.He dethroned the driver almighty.The nmbr 3 was a has been and never was to be seen again and they hate him to this day because of it.What a shame these Earnhardt fans are to the sport. The one good thing is Bic lighter sales will always stay up with them around and the words Git R done will be here also.:D
NO not at Bristol but there was this time at Talledega that Gordon ran all over Earnhardt coming out of turn 4 that sent the 3 spining down the trioval to get t-boned in the top that broke Sr's sternum that none of us will soon forget......
As for Labonte....The facts show that Labonte hit Earnhardt 4 or 5 times on the other end of the track before Earnhardt returned the favor.....Watch the replays! Fact is Earnhardt was able to save it and then returned the favor and well we all know Labonte isnt nearly as good as Earnhardt dont we.....
Say what you will about champioships......Earnhardt has 7 in 19 years and Gordon has 4 in 9......Earnhardt has a higher average points finish in his career than Gordon without nearly the resources as Gordon has had over his......
Finished 7th in points his Rookie year, going on to win Rookie of the Year despite missing 4 races with a broken collarbone....Should have been his 1st cup in 2 years but would go on to win the cup easily his sophmore season!
Voted as the second best driver in the history of NASCAR by an independent panel of judges......
Was never linked to one of the top 5 cheatin crew chiefs in the history of NASCAR.........
naturalelite
02-19-2007, 11:00 PM
I know why Ryan. Its because when the wonder boy in the 24 came along.He dethroned the driver almighty.The nmbr 3 was a has been and never was to be seen again and they hate him to this day because of it.What a shame these Earnhardt fans are to the sport. The one good thing is Bic lighter sales will always stay up with them around and the words Git R done will be here also.:D
He is known as the RAINBOW warrior. Ok I guess this makes me homophobic but how gay is that?? Its not just Earnhardt sr fans that hate Gordan everyone that isn't a Gordan fan HATES GORDAN.. You guys are just too blind to see that. If I had never been to a race then maybe you could say I didn't have a clue what I was talking about but I have been to 9 different tracks and 8 of those multiple times and NOONE pulls for gordan but gordan fans.
maxcam
02-19-2007, 11:12 PM
He is known as the RAINBOW warrior. Ok I guess this makes me homophobic but how gay is that?? Its not just Earnhardt sr fans that hate Gordan everyone that isn't a Gordan fan HATES GORDAN.. You guys are just too blind to see that. If I had never been to a race then maybe you could say I didn't have a clue what I was talking about but I have been to 9 different tracks and 8 of those multiple times and NOONE pulls for gordan but gordan fans.
You got that right.....Especially in Atlanta.....When he blows up or wrecks they scream almost as loud as when Junior takes the lead!;)
gwhilikerz
02-20-2007, 09:39 AM
Richard Petty is still King of Nascar and Earnhardt Sr. will never pass him in wins. neither will Jr.:)
I think Gordon has proven himself to be one of the all time greats as well as being heterosexual by now. The only reasons left to hate him is probably because he's a better driver then the one you like, his women are hotter, and he's worth about a billion dollars. None of which are a legit reason to hate anybody.
Southpaw
02-20-2007, 04:57 PM
I think Gordon has proven himself to be one of the all time greats as well as being heterosexual by now. The only reasons left to hate him is probably because he's a better driver then the one you like, his women are hotter, and he's worth about a billion dollars. None of which are a legit reason to hate anybody.
You are so correct Art..Everybody loves to hate a WINNER !!!Look at the New York Yankees or the Patriots and so on.Most people at the tracks do boo Jeff out of jealousy because he dominated for so long.As for everyone hating him all over not true. Mostly your southern tracks where the Budweiser brew crew is trying to drink their driver to the front. Git R Done .:D
ryan hickey
02-20-2007, 04:58 PM
I think Gordon has proven himself to be one of the all time greats as well as being heterosexual by now. The only reasons left to hate him is probably because he's a better driver then the one you like, his women are hotter, and he's worth about a billion dollars. None of which are a legit reason to hate anybody.
i think u might be on to something here...:)
maxcam
02-20-2007, 05:28 PM
Naturalite, Jeff Gordon fans dont care about rules.....They like cheaters, liars and corruption......They dont care that most of Gordons wins came while Ray Evernham was his crew chief.....Or that Gordons car owner was facing serious time in the penitentary before coming down with leukemia which was meraculously cured......
Ray Evernham
http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/3473888
Rick Hendrick
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a4ac4112ecc.htm
Jeff Gordon
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/gordonfinal1.html
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/gordonsurv1.html
(rumor has it she caught him and ray together....Ray told her is was just air he was blowing in jeffie poos ear but I dont think she believed him! )
Todays word is "sore loser".:D
ecmbowhunter
02-20-2007, 06:55 PM
LOL... buncha rednecks driving around in circles and ya'll are arguing about which one is better at it:D
sorry, had to...go #20
ryan hickey
02-20-2007, 06:56 PM
Todays word is "sore loser".:D
no doubt about it - talk about player hatin....:rolleyes:
KYBOY
02-20-2007, 07:06 PM
Im not a gordon fan but its all in the numbers. Hes a helluva wheelman. No two ways about it. Hes easy to hate, simple as that:cool:
Southpaw
02-20-2007, 11:10 PM
He is known as the RAINBOW warrior. Ok I guess this makes me homophobic but how gay is that?? Its not just Earnhardt sr fans that hate Gordan everyone that isn't a Gordan fan HATES GORDAN.. You guys are just too blind to see that. If I had never been to a race then maybe you could say I didn't have a clue what I was talking about but I have been to 9 different tracks and 8 of those multiple times and NOONE pulls for gordan but gordan fans.
I too have saw the haters .I also remember the only boos I heard thatwere louder were for a a guy named Dale Earnhardt Sr.He always told his adopted son when they quit booing you its time to hang it up...
maxcam
02-21-2007, 12:54 AM
Say what you will but the facts speak for themselves and none of you can dispute them!
What facts? The fact that Gordon mopped the track with Sr. from the first day he entered the cup? I sure as hell ain't gonna dispute that.
ryan hickey
02-21-2007, 12:21 PM
What facts? The fact that Gordon mopped the track with Sr. from the first day he entered the cup? I sure as hell ain't gonna dispute that.
neither will max, he's too smart for that:)
naturalelite
02-21-2007, 12:40 PM
I too have saw the haters .I also remember the only boos I heard thatwere louder were for a a guy named Dale Earnhardt Sr.He always told his adopted son when they quit booing you its time to hang it up...
The difference was everyone that hated SR still respected him??Now are any of your Rainbow warriors going to dispute that???If you have been to a race then you know 60 % of the people there are Sr/JR, Gordan, or Stewart fans. The other 40% is split up amongst the rest of the drivers. All 100% respect the driving ability of SR and Stewart. JR and Gordan do not get the same "respect" as the other two from the whole fan base. That my friends comes from years of actually being at NASCAR races instead of watching them on TV. I have sat by many camps in Daytona, Martinsville, Darlington, Atlanta, Bristol, Rockingham, Charlotte, Indy, and richmond I can tell you the majority of fans dont't respect Gordan's driving ability. Although all of them will tell you when him and RAY were together they were hard to beat.
corndogggy
02-21-2007, 12:53 PM
Hey art which one made the first production automobile? Which one made it possible for your father and his father to have a life.......
It's ironic that you're so gung-ho about Ford and so down on the Japanese... yet Ford has Japanese cars. Where do you think that a Ford Probe came from? Mazda. Who do you think makes Ford Rangers elsewhere in the world? Mazda.
There is not one single innovation to come from Japan. Camry is a good car but it aint no Lincoln or Cadillac .....
These statements are even more ironic, mainly because a Lincoln Zephyr is based off of the CD3 architecture of a Japanese Mazda MX-6.
RocketRider
02-21-2007, 01:11 PM
It's ironic that you're so gung-ho about Ford and so down on the Japanese... yet Ford has Japanese cars. Where do you think that a Ford Probe came from? Mazda. Who do you think makes Ford Rangers elsewhere in the world? Mazda.
These statements are even more ironic, mainly because a Lincoln Zephyr is based off of the CD3 architecture of a Japanese Mazda MX-6.
Just a correction, Ford Rangers (and Mazda trucks) are built at Ford's twin cities plant in St. Paul, MN.
Oh, and Ford owns 33.9% or Mazda. They both share engineering and some common parts.
corndogggy
02-21-2007, 01:16 PM
Just a correction, Ford Rangers (and Mazda trucks) are built at Ford's twin cities plant in St. Paul, MN.
I'm quite sure I specifically said "elsewhere in the world". All the Ford Rangers and Mazda trucks in the world aren't built in Minnesota. European and Asian Ford Rangers are made by Mazda.
corndogggy
02-21-2007, 01:23 PM
Oh, and Ford owns 33.9% or Mazda. They both share engineering and some common parts.
That was exactly my point, except sometimes it's sharing entire vehicles. I don't see how you can be down on Japanese vehicles while putting your beloved Lincoln's on a pedastal and saying there's no innovation coming from any Japanese auto makers, when the architecture of that Lincoln was mostly designed by the Japanese.
If Ford is all that American, and if they're so beyond that, and Japanese auto makers are so crappy and never have any innovation... then why is Ford even bothering with a Japanese auto-maker? Why is everything so intermingled? They don't just own them and let them do their own thing then collect the profits, Ford is totally in bed with Mazda.
RocketRider
02-21-2007, 02:02 PM
Yes, you did say 'Elsewhere in the world", sorry, I didn't catch that. The european and other markets are altogether different. By the way, Ford is doing very well overseas. Buth that is considered a seperate enterprise. I've got to believe that most of Ford's woes in the U.S. have to do with the high labor/benefits cost built into the labor force, hopefully they can do something to correct that and survive.
I personally have never said anything negative about japanese cars. I just prefer Fords and have always had great service out of all of them. And I do admit I have a personal attachment to FoMoCo as I was a parts & service director for them for 27 years.
RR~
corndogggy
02-21-2007, 02:27 PM
I've got to believe that most of Ford's woes in the U.S. have to do with the high labor/benefits cost built into the labor force, hopefully they can do something to correct that and survive.
Except for the fact that last year the non-union workers at Toyota made more on average than the UAW workers.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/31/toyota-workers-in-us-made-more-than-uaw-members-for-first-time-l
gwhilikerz
02-21-2007, 02:56 PM
Except for the fact that last year the non-union workers at Toyota made more on average than the UAW workers.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/31/toyota-workers-in-us-made-more-than-uaw-members-for-first-time-l
The non UAW members try to pay top wages to keep union out. Sad to say that when a union comes in expenses go up, but they do.
RocketRider
02-21-2007, 03:04 PM
Most of the problem with Ford's labor costs are what is called 'legacy costs' which, among other things include pension and healthcare. Plus they employ three times the amount of americans that Toyota does. They are in the process of trimming down, hope it's enough!
RR~
quackrstackr
02-21-2007, 03:20 PM
All of you Dodge lovers better buy your dream car (or truck) while the getting is good.
The insider rumor mill is churning that GM & Chrysler may in fact merge since Daimler wants to unload.
It is known fact that they have been in talks for a month or two now.
maxcam
02-21-2007, 03:33 PM
It's ironic that you're so gung-ho about Ford and so down on the Japanese... yet Ford has Japanese cars. Where do you think that a Ford Probe came from? Mazda. Who do you think makes Ford Rangers elsewhere in the world? Mazda.
These statements are even more ironic, mainly because a Lincoln Zephyr is based off of the CD3 architecture of a Japanese Mazda MX-6.
Big deal....they all copied Etienne Lenoir!
If you think that the Japs, Koreans or Chinese build one better than buy the dang thing....In my opinion they are no different that an illegal immagrant......Until these nations allow us to flood their markets with American made products equally, I wont support any of them......
maxcam
02-21-2007, 03:37 PM
IF GM and Ford are so bad then dont buy them.....That will flood the market of those products thus reducing the prices for me! :D
I think we say Sunday that the Toyotas aint got the horsepower they claim to have now didnt we! How many green flag laps did they lead by the way?
corndogggy
02-21-2007, 04:51 PM
For whatever it's worth, my dad is a consultant that is in a position where he has to go to both Toyota and Ford plants. He says the difference is absolutely amazing.
He said that the people in the Toyota plants on average as a whole seem to love life, love their job, seem cheery, they care about the company, they're proud of their work, have an overall optimistic attitude, even the floors are clean if not nearly spotless, the processes are efficient, the management really has their act together, etc.
The Ford plants on the other hand, people are rude, they've got the whole "somebody's out to get me" union attitude, pessimistic attitude, everything is a mess, processes are inefficient, comparatively the management is somewhat of a joke, etc.
And people wonder why Ford is in trouble and Toyota is taking over.
corndogggy
02-21-2007, 05:12 PM
I think we say Sunday that the Toyotas aint got the horsepower they claim to have now didnt we! How many green flag laps did they lead by the way?
Some of those comparisons are kind of dumb. Have you really ever seen a Toyota Camry on the road that has a tube frame, a V8, and rear wheel drive? I mean, can you really make a comparison whatsoever? If the so called "Camry" doesn't win at Nascar, then the real Camry's on the road must be junk, right? That's like saying that the trophy truck class in the Baja 1000 with nearly three feet of suspension travel flying across the desert at 140 mph is a true representative of the same trucks sitting at your local dealership, except worse.
corndogggy
02-21-2007, 05:23 PM
Also keep in mind that Toyota had to build a new engine from scratch with the pushrod design that they were not familiar with in order to adhere to the NASCAR rules. This is not the normal design that they would use. In contrast, the other brands have been tinkering with this design for decades. Personally I'd say they're doing pretty good given the short amount of time that they have had to work through these issues. They have only just begun using this engine. In a year or two I think they're going to leave alot of doubters pretty speechless.
There's no logical arguement to make against Toyota quality wise. If you don't like them, that's fine but if you want to say they are second rate blah blah blah then you are just making yourself sound dumb. There's mountains of proof that supports how much better import vehicles are in general.
maxcam
02-21-2007, 07:18 PM
Also keep in mind that Toyota had to build a new engine from scratch with the pushrod design that they were not familiar with in order to adhere to the NASCAR rules. This is not the normal design that they would use. In contrast, the other brands have been tinkering with this design for decades. Personally I'd say they're doing pretty good given the short amount of time that they have had to work through these issues. They have only just begun using this engine. In a year or two I think they're going to leave alot of doubters pretty speechless.
Bull Crap!!!!!Theyve been building V-8 automobile engines for over 40 years in Japland.....How long have they been running push rod V-8's in teh Craftsman Truck Series......:eek: They copied the Hemi head design from mopar surely a single cam push rod configuration isnt to hard to figure out......The dual over head cam is a more complex design after all.....
As for your claims of chassis etc.....Most of that stuff can be bought by a manufacturer....Mark Martins team bought their chassis and motor and he is as old a dirt.....Surely you can come up with a better excuse than that.....:rolleyes:
maxcam
02-21-2007, 07:24 PM
There's no logical arguement to make against Toyota quality wise. If you don't like them, that's fine but if you want to say they are second rate blah blah blah then you are just making yourself sound dumb. There's mountains of proof that supports how much better import vehicles are in general.
Really....I suppose if you like to drive down the road in a tin can with your head cocked over to the side and your legs pressed together with no room for your cods to breath then you might have a point....If you like front wheel drive and a sense of being stuck in an elevator go right ahead ....Me I prefer the smoke to roll from under the trunk with the back end of the car going wild and having enough room to work the steering wheel without running the risk of knocking out the passenger that is with me............Now they are working on baseball.....Next it will be apple pie ! :mad:
th5isback5
02-21-2007, 07:25 PM
I just love it when people argue over what vehicle is better. Im a bowtie kinda guy, always have been always will be. But I will admit thier are vehicle out thier that are better then the chevys.Ive owend three chevys and had to replace the motor in every one of them. Most of it was my fault, I got a 20lb foot.
corndogggy
02-21-2007, 08:10 PM
Bull Crap!!!!!Theyve been building V-8 automobile engines for over 40 years in Japlan
They weren't pushrods.
How long have they been running push rod V-8's in teh Craftsman Truck Series......:eek:
A whopping 3 years. THREE. This is starting the fourth. They didn't enter until 2004. Apparently they won 12 times last year too. :rolleyes: Oh yeah, Toyota won the manufacturer's championship too. 7 out of the top 10 in the final points standings were Toyotas. You're going to be in tears when that happens to the normal NASCAR world. :D It's only a matter of time.
Really....I suppose if you like to drive down the road in a tin can with your head cocked over to the side and your legs pressed together with no room for your cods to breath then you might have a point....If you like front wheel drive and a sense of being stuck in an elevator go right ahead ....Me I prefer the smoke to roll from under the trunk with the back end of the car going wild and having enough room to work the steering wheel without running the risk of knocking out the passenger that is with me............Now they are working on baseball.....Next it will be apple pie ! :mad:
This guy can catch lightning in a jar, and he still can't figure out what the hell you just said...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/coolslice/lightning16dy.jpg
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.