Term Paper

[Lil Gsp]

For my English class I have to write a research paper on the topic of my choice. I was wondering if some of ya'll would be able to just give me your basic opinion on the subject. Nothing more than that and it's not a thread to start an arguement and if that is done so I'll just delete it. Thanks

My question to yall is what is your opinion on the privacy of soldiers families while at the soldiers funeral in regarding to protesters?

[KYCatBirdHunter]

My personal opinion is that just like at any other public place, protesters have the right to bother the family if they want, but the family also has the right to dispense with a little two-fist justice also.

[aceoky]

My question to yall is what is your opinion on the privacy of soldiers families while at the soldiers funeral in regarding to protesters?

It's my opinion the family of the fallen soldier have already been through more than enough and deserve to be treated with much more respect.
The protester's aren't really accomplishing anything good, but are taking advantage of a family in their most fragile of times, as a parent, I can't even imagine losing one of ours, much less having a bunch of people protesting at their funeral because they chose to serve our country.

There is a time and place for everything, and IF they feel they must protest the war, this is neither the time or the place IMHO

Hope that is what you're looking for , and it helps a little,
:)

[RocketRider]

In my opinion funerals are private events reserved for family and friends. Sure, people have the right to protest if they want but that is neither the time or place. The bereaved also have the right to have a service without being harrassed or molested. If laws are needed to protect people from protesters, so be it. They can protest all they want some other time and place.

RR~

[trust me]

There is no right to dispense "two fist justice". That's called assault and battery. While the alleged protesters have the right to assemble peacefully and holler and squall, they should be made to do it a respectful distance from the site of the funeral and burial, say, about 2 miles. Any closer, then they are asking for some loose teeth and then the grieving family has to go bail somebody out of jail. Best just to restrict them to a distant location and let the family bury the loved one in peace.

[naturalelite]

Although I think this is the most distasteful and disgracing thing that has ever been done they do have the right to do it. I agree it should be at a distance that can in no way effect the funeral in any way. It should be completely out of sight for the family. Like others have stated they have lost enough Please let them morn in peace.

[KYhunter79]

Everyone has the right to freedom of speech. However, I think it is as disrespectful and distasteful thing you can do. Give the family their privacy. A funeral of a fallen loved is not the place where protesting should be taking place.

[Xi Bowhunter]

No one should have the right to be anywhere near a funeral if they are going to protest someone who has died or the people at the funeral. Death should be respected no matter who it is. I may protest Sadam, and I am disgusted at what he did, but I'm not going to his funeral and getting in the face of his family yelling and screaming. They may have loved him, and I respect that. Protest the living, and protest at places that matter. Don't protest at a funeral, that just makes you look like an a$$!

[daking]

Kiddo, the main issue to me is that a cemetery is private property. The owners of a cemetery have the right to allow people in (or not) as they see fit. If the owners of the cemetery don't want to let a bunch of protesters in to disrupt a funeral, they have the right to do so. They also would be making a smart business decision, because I doubt I'd buy a burial plot for a loved one if I had the slightest inkling that my family wouldn't be able to give my loved one a dignified burial.

The problem with soldier's burials is that sometimes they occur at national cemeteries. Those places are publicly owned. The protesters make the case that they are entitled to be there. Well, not really. If you've ever been in a courtroom (and if you have, I'm sure it was just to watch and learn), you'd see that the judge does not even allow people to wear hats; much less put up with a bunch of protesters. I see no reason why the same sort of rules couldn't be enforced in a cemetery.

This is a very emotional topic. You'll get a lot of responses. As a practical matter for writing your paper, consider everything you read here and pick the two or three points that you can 1) document the best and 2) that you can support. One of the real dangers of writing a paper is to take on too wide a topic. Your topic here seems good. It's often better to pick a few points that you can wrestle all the way to the ground than to consider every point, but leave a lot of the loose ends hanging.

As another practical note, if this is a research paper, you better look for sources in addition to what you learn here. There are some small-minded teachers who might consider that the entire body of knowledge and wisdom is not possessed by the members of this forum. It's going to require a trip to the library or at least a google search.

I am glad that you take such an interest in your English class. One of the things that I believe is wrong with today's education is that high school graduates have an inability to express themselves in the spoken word and the written word. As your dad may tell you, he may not always agree with me, but he can understand what I'm saying. That's because I've had a bunch of teachers who made sure I could use the language before they turned me loose on the world. That's the goal for which you should strive in this class...to write it in a manner that people can understand. It will be one of the most useful things you'll learn in school...and I'm sure you're already learning it well. Good luck.

Oh, and by the way.....what are you doing off from school today? My kids are in class? I hope it's a special Lexington thing and not hookey. (Just kidding, just kidding)

[GSP]

She already asked my opinion, here is a re-run.

The soldier died fighting for the protesters right to speak thier mind. They should have the right to do so. With that said, the family is entitled to a PRIVATE
ceremony with their family. I do believe that there should be a distance that should be observed/mandated.
Any breech of that distance should be considered open season, no limits.


Now please answere Daking's question, what are you doing on the computer at 10:18 AM??????

[KYCatBirdHunter]

I wasn't referring to legal rights. I was referring to right and wrong. While you may not be legally justified in knocking one of the protester's teeth down his throat, you would not be wrong in doing so.

[Brewtus]

Now please answere Daking's question, what are you doing on the computer at 10:18 AM??????[/quote]

He is probably in school working on this project.

[aceoky]

GSP IMHO she is in school working very hard to get good grades to make her dad Proud :)

[ceg4uk]

If one were to actually believe that the soldiers in Iraq are there fighting and dying to protect our way of life, in essence our Constitution, then those soldiers are dying for the protections granted to free speech under the 1st Amendment. Which includes public protests at funerals. It is an all or nothing proposition as far as I am concerned. I cannot understand how someone can stand on their soapbox and pound their fist about saving the 2nd Amendment, but then in their next breath condone restricting the 1st Amendment (e.g. flag burning and other similar political protests). It is a slippery slope upon which we tread.

[PhilpotHunter]

He

She:D Be careful Brewtus, I made that mistake once and said an off handed comment thinking "he" was listening, amazing how many PM's I got warning me of that one:D


They have a right to protest. I am all for freedom of speech, but I believe it should be like any other freedom we have, with restrictions. Certain distance away from family. I also believe that other protesters should be allowed to come and protest the protesters, blocking any view from the family's

[trust me]

True enough about the slippery slope, but as Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote, your freedom of speech doesn't allow you to cry "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, or to spray paint your ideas and opinions on the property of others. Neither does your freedom to bear arms allow you to carry a shotgun into a public building. Your freedom of assembly doesn't allow you to create a disturbance, or disrupt the peace. Every right we enjoy under our Constitution and the Bill of Rights is tempered somewhat by the rights of our fellows.

With every right, there is an equal and commensurate responsibility. To ignore the responsibility is to forfeit some or all of the right.

[Foam Steak]

With every right, there is an equal and commensurate responsibility. To ignore the responsibility is to forfeit some or all of the right.


Trust Me once again hit the nail on the head.

Protesting at a funeral may be legal, but it is wrong. It is wrong and it is hurtful and it is in very poor taste.

I think when you start researching this topic you will find that the people who are doing the protesting are basically a cult. I for one hope they are a doomesday cult who follows in the footsteps the Branch Davidians or the Peoples Temple or Heavens Gate. I am not saying I would like to see them get into a gunbattle with the BATF or kill a Senator or anything, but it would be nice to see them "Drink the Cool Aid" and "Leave their Earthly Containers".:D

[buckfever]

Lil GSP - Personally, I think that anyone who would protest at anyone's funeral (not just a military person's) should be tarred, feathered and dangled naked from a pole by their most sensitive body parts.

From a legal perspective, it is easier for the Gov't to restrict the place you protest more easily than the content of your speech. For example, the Gov't can restrict protest groups' ability to demonstate on a public street during rush hour, b/c their 1st Amendment right to protest doesn't override the rights of the general public to use the road for its intended purpose - driving. However, the Gov't cannot allow one group to use a public park to exercise their 1st Amendment rights and disallow a different group simply b/c the Gov't doesn't like what the 2nd group has to say (i.e. this would be a "content"-based restriction).

There have already been statutes passed addressing these issues, and challenges from organizations like the ACLU. If you google, you could probably find some pretty good stuff.

Here's a couple of links to get you started:

http://www.constitutioncenter.org/education/TeachingwithCurrentEvents/ConstitutionNewswire/16108.shtml

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=40269.0

Good luck. Definitely an interesting and thought-provoking topic.:D

[aceoky]

Definitely an interesting and thought-provoking topic

Without a doubt!

ECM pass the popcorn please! :)

[buckfever]

If one were to actually believe that the soldiers in Iraq are there fighting and dying to protect our way of life, in essence our Constitution, then those soldiers are dying for the protections granted to free speech under the 1st Amendment. Which includes public protests at funerals. It is an all or nothing proposition as far as I am concerned. I cannot understand how someone can stand on their soapbox and pound their fist about saving the 2nd Amendment, but then in their next breath condone restricting the 1st Amendment (e.g. flag burning and other similar political protests). It is a slippery slope upon which we tread.

The 1st Amendment is not and never has been "an all or nothing proposition".

Consider this. Suppose these same protestors could come and protested on the public sidewalk outside your house every night at 2 am using a bullhorn. Do you really think that they couldn't (or shouldn't) be stopped from disrupting your peaceful night's sleep? If you don't think this would be an acceptable ("all or nothing") exercise of their 1st Amendment rights, I'd just ask why your right to sleep is more important than the right's of these families to peacefully grieve over their recently deceased brother, father, or sister?

Be careful, the slope upon which we tread just got a little more slippery. . . :eek:

[ecmbowhunter]

Without a doubt!

ECM pass the popcorn please! :)here ya go , buddy:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/ecmbowhunter/pop2.gif

[aceoky]

Thank you.......and it's "just right" too! (not too salty) :D

[BigDaddy]

Kiddo, the main issue to me is that a cemetery is private property. The owners of a cemetery have the right to allow people in (or not) as they see fit. If the owners of the cemetery don't want to let a bunch of protesters in to disrupt a funeral, they have the right to do so. They also would be making a smart business decision, because I doubt I'd buy a burial plot for a loved one if I had the slightest inkling that my family wouldn't be able to give my loved one a dignified burial.

The problem with soldier's burials is that sometimes they occur at national cemeteries. Those places are publicly owned. The protesters make the case that they are entitled to be there. Well, not really. If you've ever been in a courtroom (and if you have, I'm sure it was just to watch and learn), you'd see that the judge does not even allow people to wear hats; much less put up with a bunch of protesters. I see no reason why the same sort of rules couldn't be enforced in a cemetery.

This is a very emotional topic. You'll get a lot of responses. As a practical matter for writing your paper, consider everything you read here and pick the two or three points that you can 1) document the best and 2) that you can support. One of the real dangers of writing a paper is to take on too wide a topic. Your topic here seems good. It's often better to pick a few points that you can wrestle all the way to the ground than to consider every point, but leave a lot of the loose ends hanging.

As another practical note, if this is a research paper, you better look for sources in addition to what you learn here. There are some small-minded teachers who might consider that the entire body of knowledge and wisdom is not possessed by the members of this forum. It's going to require a trip to the library or at least a google search.

I am glad that you take such an interest in your English class. One of the things that I believe is wrong with today's education is that high school graduates have an inability to express themselves in the spoken word and the written word. As your dad may tell you, he may not always agree with me, but he can understand what I'm saying. That's because I've had a bunch of teachers who made sure I could use the language before they turned me loose on the world. That's the goal for which you should strive in this class...to write it in a manner that people can understand. It will be one of the most useful things you'll learn in school...and I'm sure you're already learning it well. Good luck.

Oh, and by the way.....what are you doing off from school today? My kids are in class? I hope it's a special Lexington thing and not hookey. (Just kidding, just kidding)


Very well said!!

[plowboy]

IMHO it takes some kind of crude IDIOT to protest at a soldiers funeral. He/She died serving a country that gives us the right to be IDIOTS, and he/she may not even have agreed with why they were there but were still doing their part to make sure that the IDIOTS have the right to do so and therefore have earned my respect. Nuff said.

[Lil Gsp]

To answet Daking's question, yes I was in school. Actually our English class was in the library doing research for our paper and decided to ask some opinions. Thank you so much this helped me a lot and if you want you can keep the conversation up, it'll also help.

I have to ask because I dont want to get into major trouble but will anyone have a problem if I quote them in my paper with proper recognition?

Lastly, to Brewtus and others, I am daddy's little GIRL!:D

[aceoky]

Please feel free to use anything of mine that may help :)

(I almost posted your name) :eek:

[buckfever]

Feel free to use my material as well. Personally, I think this comment was my best, but you use whatever you'd like. . . ;)

Lil GSP - Personally, I think that anyone who would protest at anyone's funeral (not just a military person's) should be tarred, feathered and dangled naked from a pole by their most sensitive body parts.

:D

[aceoky]

if you want you can keep the conversation up, it'll also help.

Ok........ ;)

It's a question of balance IMHO.....WE are a civilized society and as such, we may very well have rights, but should also have the judgment of when and where to exercise any or all rights we may have.

Just because people have the right to assemble and protest, doesn't mean they should use that right to upset a grieving family in the worst possible time of their lives, especially since that protest can't change what has happened, IOW, the soldier has already fought and died in a war, whether they agree with the war at this point is not relevant and can in no way change the outcome that is already obvious to all.

With rights come responsibilities to other humans in all cases. While everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions and also the right to express them, again, there IS a time and place for doing so, and this time of grief is neither .

There is and can be nothing of value gained from a demonstration of this sort, much less anything positive for the demonstrators ; nothing of value can possibly be accomplished, and just as important are the rights of the family to have a quiet and decent service of the type they have planned without any kind of interruption. Private services should be private.

:)

[daking]

Of course you can use my ideas with the appropriate attribution. Please send the royalty checks to......

Just kidding. Of course. Quote away. In fact, it's flattering for a washed up old guy like me to be used as a source for anything other than money for my kids. Hope you earn an A.

Where are you thinking about for college? Never too early to start checking things out. The more you know the better decision you'll make. 'Course I'm sure dear old dad has already pointed that out.

[aceoky]

In fact, it's flattering for a washed up old guy like me to be used as a source for anything other than money for my kids. Hope you earn an A.

I agree (not that YOU are, but that I am ) ;)

I have to admit I was just sitting here thinking back when I'd do these things with my own daughter (now married and living in South Carolina):(

Brings back some awesome memories to me....

[Lil Gsp]

Where are you thinking about for college? Never too early to start checking things out. The more you know the better decision you'll make. 'Course I'm sure dear old dad has already pointed that out.


I am thinkin about going to Eastern and getting my Bachelors in either Wildlife Law Enforcement or Police Studies then hopefully to go on to become a Conservation Officer.

[aceoky]

I am thinkin about going to Eastern

That's great and somewhat interesting , our oldest son (middle child) is in the process of getting everything ready to go to Eastern this fall (IF the gf doesn't talk him out of actually going, which his mother will make him regret OH SO MUCH):D

[Lil Gsp]

(Another Library Day)

Because of the research paper I also have to write from the protestors point of view. So my question is with the Freedom of Speech it gives anyone the freedom to protest. Therefore do you believe they have that right or should there be restrictions on the Freedom?

I am also writing a paragraph on yall's opinions so please feel free to tell me what you believe!!

[NonTyp]

As I read through this thread I see both sides. This is a question of ethics or the lack of. Rights or not this protest breaks the law of ethics!

[aceoky]

The protesters certainly have the right to protest the war (or most anything they don't agree with), the Real question in my view IS do they have the right to disrupt a fallen soldier's funeral proceedings with their protest. From a purely legal perspective, I'd assume they do; so long as they stay a "reasonable distance" away...

From a moral standpoint, taking the feelings of the family going through the hardest possible time in their lives, I have to believe there is a much better way for them to make their points known with some "tact and taste"...

Now when they start shouting the wrong things (obscenities and the like) then they've gone beyond their legal rights and should be arrested ASAP imho...the same applies I believe when they do anything that would disrupt and otherwise peaceful and somber occasion IMHO.
.
Sorry I know I'm not much help, but it's tough to even try to justify protesting someone's funeral who fought and died to guarantee that right was preserved, or it is for me at least....

[Lil Gsp]

Thanks Ace, yea it is a tough subject because you have to look at it from all points of view whether you agree with the protestors or not and you cant be bias in the paper.

Thank you all for your opinions. Keep them coming please.

[aceoky]

Very welcome, I'm happy to try to help; and yes it's a very tough subject , I hope you do very well on it. I have no doubt that you will :)

[trust me]

Lil Gsp,
You have my permission to use any of my pap and drivel, not that you have to ask for it.

I think it is interesting to weigh the rights of the protesters against the obligations of common decency that they so obviously ignore. If I were the mayor in that town, I'd give the protesters a street corner several blocks away and let them knock themselves out. But if they stepped foot near that greiving family, I'd bust their hulls. If the grieving family handled it badly, I'd have no choice but to arrest some folks from both sides of the fray.

[aceoky]

If the grieving family handled it badly, I'd have no choice but to arrest some folks from both sides of the fray.

With any luck they'd get someone like me on their jury ;) (grieving family that is)

[naturalelite]

lil gsp, you got your work cut out for you. Trying to be objective to something that you can't understand in the first place is very difficult. I agree with trust me that they should be given a corner that is far enough away to keep the family and friends out of hearing distance.If they want to protest the war that is their choice but by doing this they are making it personal against the same people that are willing to give their life to make sure they keep those rights.

[daking]

If I had to write about their point of view, I'd certainly include free speech, because it is the obvious answer.

I'd also look at WHY they protest. They are doing so because they believe that the USA is on a bad path in many ways. Their biggest objection is to the fact that we allow lifestyles out of the mainstream, the furtherance of ideas that are outside the mainstream of common thought and essentially people are allowed to live free in the USA...no matter how much we disagree with the way they live. These nutcases believe that we are losing the war (which we're not) and our soldiers are dying because God is mad at the USA for allowing people to be free to live in a manner that the protesters disapprove. In short, they are intolerant of other people and believe that God is punishing us for not doing things their way.

It's interesting to note that the reason for their protest is the same reason that much of the Muslim world is mad at us...we don't require everyone to march in lockstep with a particular religious belief. Essentially, we are fighting in the middle east in part to beat back religious intolerance, and those who are protesting are doing so because they are religiously intolerant.

I'm not saying that religion is a bad thing. I am pretty deeply rooted in my faith. It may not be exactly the same as yours, but I'm sure that it's OK with you that I go to a Catholic church, just the same way that I'm good with wherever you go to church. If you don't go to church at all, that's none of my business and it's not my place to pass judgement on you. That's the way things are supposed to work here, but it's not the way the protesters want it.

I think, kiddo, that if you expose their point of view in this light, your original belief that they are wrong for doing for what they do will be a point that makes itself. You don't have to argue one side over the other. Give the facts on both, and reasonable, charitable people will choose the reasonable, charitable side.

Good luck with your paper.

If you are going into a law enforcement field, EKU is a great choice. My son has chosen NKU because of the English and Journalism programs. It would appear that he's one apple that dropped kind of near the tree. My daughter chose Xavier University for their business school and, well, they volunteered to pay for a whole lot of it. Prepare yourself and make your decisions after careful thought...but remember, you're at the very beginning of a long, long journey. What you do right now lays the foundation, but it does not lock you into anything in the future. The world is your oyster.

Write well.

[maxcam]

The real debate is wither it is morally and ethically right vs legally right....There is no doubt that there is protection under the constitution to allow folks to protest but I often wonder if some concession or amendment should be made to leave the true protectors of our Constitution at peace while they return home to their final place of rest.

You know its a real shame that their are folks that use a very sad event such as a hero's funeral to try and further their political agenda....Just goes to show how desperate some are to make a point!

[aceoky]

Yeah, it's always amazing to me to what lengths some will go to try to achieve a little fame and notoriety....

[Lil Gsp]

Ive got my outline for my paper already. The first paragraph is looking at the protestors point of view more to that they have the freedom. The second paragraph has the families point of view and some restrictions that have been already placed in some states to where the protestors can stand and lastly will be yalls opinions.

Yea this topic is kinda hard but then you have to narrow it down to whether you think is it right or not. The thing is the law allows it, but should they still do it in prescence of a funeral or should there be more restrictions then just 300ft.

[aceoky]

The thing is the law allows it, but should they still do it in prescence of a funeral or should there be more restrictions then just 300ft.

I don't think 300 ft. is really far enough away, and I would say that there should be many more restrictions. For example no bullhorns; no loudspeakers, it's a hero's funeral not a horse race or a ballgame after all ...

Maybe that will help, I'm trying to be careful , you know how I can get, I get started typing, a page or two later I realize I haven't stopped :D

[GSP]

I would argue it from the standpoint not so much from the funeral, but as from privacy. To me it does not matter if it is a soldier, bum or ex-serial killer. The family should be entitled to the go through this time in a setting of choice.
The protesters do have the right to speak, they do not have the right to make (force) you listen as with bullhorns, shouting etc.





Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

[aceoky]

VERY good points GSP, I agree, I only meant that a hero's funeral should not only get the min, but deserves at least as much respect as anyone else's should, and you are right I believe that no matter the family should be respected.....

[aceoky]

I would be interested in hearing how it goes for you (not really the grade I'm certain that you'll get an "A" with the work and research that you have put into it) the teacher's comments would be interesting to me at least :)

[bcdh1]

I think whatever the family wants it to be like is how it a ought to be. No protesters...etc...