ND player suspended

[lymanl3]

Notre Dame suspends McAlarney for semester

Notre Dame suspends McAlarney for semesterBy TOM COYNE, AP Sports Writer
January 23, 2007

SOUTH BEND, Ind. (AP) -- Notre Dame point guard Kyle McAlarney was suspended from school for his arrest last month on a marijuana possession charge, his mother said Tuesday.
Janice McAlarney said her son was told Monday that he could not continue to attend classes this semester. She said she's not sure what the suspension means for his future.
All I know is my son was suspended yesterday from school and he's headed home," she said from her home in Staten Island, N.Y. "I don't know anything else beyond that. All I know is I'm ashamed of how they did this. ... I'm ashamed of the university. My son is a great kid. He did not deserve this. The punishment did not fit the crime."
A message seeking comment from Kyle McAlarney was left on his cell phone.
Bernie Cafarelli, Notre Dame sports information director, said neither she nor coach Mike Brey could comment because of privacy laws. The team was in New York for a game Tuesday night against St. John's.
McAlarney, a sophomore, started the first 12 games this season for the 22nd-ranked Irish (16-3) and averaged 10.3 points. The Irish have gone 5-2 since McAlarney was suspended from playing after his arrest on Dec. 29.
Two weeks ago, the 19-year-old McAlarney entered a pretrial diversion program that would allow him to have the charge dismissed in a year if he passes random drug tests and stays out of trouble.
McAlarney was arrested after marijuana was discovered in his car last month during a routine traffic stop a few blocks from campus. The arrest came hours after he scored a career-high 21 points against Rider.
McAlarney, who began spring semester classes last week, had continued to practice with the team until Monday. Don Wycliff, the university's associate vice president for news and information, said he couldn't comment. But speaking about general university policy, he said a student dismissed for violating university rules could apply for readmission depending on the penalty handed down by the office of the vice president for student affairs. "There's no guarantee it will be granted, but they can reapply for admission," he said.



I'm sorry...but I dont feel sorry him.

[KYCatBirdHunter]

why the hell not? He was kicked out of school for a VERY MINOR offense, lost his athletic scholarship and probably an opportunity for an education. Notre Dame is really setting a good Christian example here aren't they? Do something we don't like, you're outta here!

Gimme a break...

[MsgMills]

Why anyone be granted a free ride to a college schorlarship and not be suspended for a dope conviction...Even if it will be taken off his record at the end of 1 year.... And his mother said she was ashamed of the University for doing it to her son....He should be down on his knee's thanking god that he ain't in prison being someone's prison B**ch...... Do the crime pay the fine.....She also stated that he was such a good kid...well in my opinion good kids don't use dope.....fwiw....

[KYCatBirdHunter]

it's a misdemeanor. a first offense misdemeanor. The same as if he had been caught at a party with a beer in his hand and written up. Some people need to get their priorities straight.

[KYHUNTER14]

Priorities??????????? Where is marijuana on the priority list??? I am sure alot of other college athletes get away with crap like this all the time, so from that standpoint I can see what you are saying, but the kid has absolutely nobody to blame but himself.

Judging from the statement from his enabler mother, the kid probably blames everyone but himself.

I can honestly say when I was younger and in college I did some wild things (no drugs), but just mischievious stuff that could have gotten me in trouble. If I had gotten caught I can guarantee you that my mom and dad would not have been pointing fingers at the University, they would have been too busy kicking my butt.

[ryan hickey]

it's a misdemeanor. a first offense misdemeanor. The same as if he had been caught at a party with a beer in his hand and written up. Some people need to get their priorities straight.


agreed, talkin about throwin him in prison on a first offense bag-o-the-tree-posession?!!:eek: slap the kid on the wrist and let him play ball i say. hell, jules camara got a dui and all we did was suspend him for a few games, dui is worse than posession of weed imo - surely alot more dangerous to innocent folks.

[lymanl3]

why the hell not? He was kicked out of school for a VERY MINOR offense, lost his athletic scholarship and probably an opportunity for an education. Notre Dame is really setting a good Christian example here aren't they? Do something we don't like, you're outta here!

Gimme a break...


Yeah, lets slap him on the wrist and not hold him responsible for what he did. Of course....I am sure he had no idea that "illegal drugs" were a violation of school or team policy. If he wasnt cought, I am sure he was telling himself "just this one time" I will try marijuana:rolleyes: . ND is setting a fine example. An example that too many universities overlook, and let kids get by then they are in the NBA or in public committing even more serious crimes. He needs to pay the piper, and if he is "given" another chance at a high dollar, quality education that he initially did not appreciate, he should be thankful.

Lyman

[daking]

Notre Dame has its rules and standards. They tell everybody what's what when they start. If they didn't make the standard clear in the beginning, then I'd feel differently, but they did. He broke the rule, knowing the consequence. What shoud NDU do? Ignore the rule for him because he's a basketball player?

[lymanl3]

Notre Dame has its rules and standards. They tell everybody what's what when they start. If they didn't make the standard clear in the beginning, then I'd feel differently, but they did. He broke the rule, knowing the consequence. What shoud NDU do? Ignore the rule for him because he's a basketball player?


Exactly. IMO...and professional sports should be more firm as well. Choking coaches, raping, killing..its B.S and thats what happens when kids are spoon fed and not held responsible. Not saying that this kid is that bad of a kid...but he knew in advance what the policies were. I am all for letting him do some D/A classes, community service, school/humanitarian efforts..and then give him another opportunity, if thats per ND policy.

Lyman

[KYCatBirdHunter]

no, they should change the rule because it's stupid.

I have a new rule. I'll tell everyone about it upfront so now that everyone knows, it's okay. From now on, if you get in my way while I'm walking, I will castrate you. Seems harsh, but since you know about it, don't get in my way. Because when you're a eunuch, you have no one to blame but yourself.

[lymanl3]

Thats a terrible analogy:rolleyes: . Come on...he violated the law by possessing an illegal substance...end of story.

[KYHUNTER14]

Testicles are a priority, weed is not.

[lymanl3]

BINGO!


KYhunter14

"Judging from the statement from his ENABLER mother, the kid probably blames everyone but himself."

[ryan hickey]

Thats a terrible analogy:rolleyes: . Come on...he violated the law by possessing an illegal substance...end of story.



just don't feel like its that big of an offense thats all. i wonder what happens to regular students if they get caught. guessing nothing, and thats a prettty good guess i think;)

[KYHUNTER14]

I really dont feel like it is that big of an offense either, but when you do stuff like that you have to understand what COULD happen if you get caught. You have to weigh the risk versus the reward. If you get caught, step up and take responsibility like a man. Don't blame the school for enforcing rules.

Also, I really don't know what would have happened if it had been a "regular" student. I have seen athletes get preferential treatment and I have seen athletes punished more harshly because they were athletes. Whether it is right or wrong, as a college athlete, you are held to a different standard than the average student.

[lymanl3]

I dont have any info on what happens to ND students...but I can tell I when I was in school a buddy of mine was kicked out of school for getting caught. Hell...now they have a no alcohol policy..on campus. We all knew the consequences if caught. Do I think possession is a big offense as compared to other offenses...no. I do feel regardless of the violation, if he committed one he should be held responsible, and upheld to whatever the consequence is. Trust me..I was not innocent...and I played the cards I was dealt..and it wasnt fun at times, and I learned my lesson..I think;)

[trust me]

He knew the rules when he accepted the scholarship, and Mom did too. I guarantee he is being handled right by the book, and if he and Mom don't like it, he can play somewhere else with lower standards where pot smoking isn't a big deal.

[buckfever]

Dang, nobody held a gun to this kid's head and forced him to go to Notre Dame. If he didn't want to abide by their stringent policies, he shouldn't have gone there in the first place. I don't think he's necessarily a "bad" kid b/c he smoked some pot, but it's not like ND has ever hid the ball in terms of its rules.

Well, at least people can't claim they don't understand ND's rules now. And when your kids get old enough to go off to college, the guys that think this kid got a raw deal can enroll their own kids at Florida State or somewhere that won't suspend 'em when they get caught with a little bag of dope.

[KYHUNTER14]

In my opinion the worst part of this whole deal is the Mom. I mean this is what the world is coming to. I read the first message here and just skimmed through it. I saw where she said she was "ashamed" and just assumed she was ashamed of her son, nope, she is ashamed of how the University handled it.

I know nothing about this kid other than what I have read here, but parents like this are a big reason why alot of kids get in trouble. Everyone else is wrong and her kid is perfect.

[ryan hickey]

if u get pulled over in the state of KY with less than 8 ounces of pot all they do is take it and write u a ticket. hey, rules are rules and i understand that - but i also feel they came down on this kid because he was an athlete. would be willing to bet that 'regular students' there get caught everyday and not a damn thing happens to them.

i do agree that he prolly broke a team rule and deserves punishment - kicking the kid outta school prolly not the best answer. wonder if this will cost ND athletic recruits down the road?:confused:

[KYCatBirdHunter]

ryan: it's actually one ounce.

Here's what it boils down to. Was he on school property? No. Was he under the supervision of the school? No. Did his offense affect the school in any way? No. Therefore, IMO, it's none of their business. The courts will punish him as they see fit. (That's why we have these great little things called laws).

This is the kind of thing that if the team wants to impose a suspension, then that's fine (albeit not an entire season). Talking about getting punished twice for the same offense.

[buckfever]

if u get pulled over in the state of KY with less than 8 ounces of pot all they do is take it and write u a ticket. hey, rules are rules and i understand that - but i also feel they came down on this kid because he was an athlete. would be willing to bet that 'regular students' there get caught everyday and not a damn thing happens to them.

i do agree that he prolly broke a team rule and deserves punishment - kicking the kid outta school prolly not the best answer. wonder if this will cost ND athletic recruits down the road?:confused:

Ryan - That's pure speculation regarding what happens to a "regular" student. I don't know either, but I'd speculate that any student would receive an identical punishment. ND is a private catholic school and can set whatever rules it wants, so it really doesn't matter what happens when a kid gets pulled over by the cops.

And by the way, your hypothetical is wrong. If you got caught with 8 oz, you'd be charged w/ state felony possession probably coupled with a second felony charge of intent to distribute. You'd probably also face federal felony charges if engaged of interstate transportation of that much pot.

I doubt this will hurt ND's recruiting one iota. They aren't recruiting or typically getting the kind of kids that would worry about that anyway. If anything, I'd think that parents would look at this particular situation and WANT to send their kids there because of it.

[michunter]

Good for Notre Dame, wish all schools treated everyone the same !! Too bad when they hit the pro level they don't crack down on them as well . Anything involving drugs , should be automatic life removal from the respective sport they are in , I mean everyone has their bad day but hey when all these Colleges and Pro teams start cracking down, , instead of smacking them on the hands , maybe some of them will learn . When they hit the pro level they think they are untouchable , it's time they start cracking down , pure and simple!!

[lymanl3]

ryan: it's actually one ounce.

Here's what it boils down to. Was he on school property? No. Was he under the supervision of the school? No. Did his offense affect the school in any way? No. Therefore, IMO, it's none of their business. The courts will punish him as they see fit. (That's why we have these great little things called laws).

This is the kind of thing that if the team wants to impose a suspension, then that's fine (albeit not an entire season). Talking about getting punished twice for the same offense.


None of ND's business...when he accepted the gracious scholarship he chose to "represent" the University and all that it stands for. Did it affect the school...why yes it would have if ND would have let it slide. ND is a reputable institution and they are not about to be tarnished by this. I believe the school had every right to get involved. Regardless if it happened on school property...he is still associated with the university under the contract he signed. Just as if one gets caught engaging in an unlawful transaction that somehow relates to their job...even if it is on ones own time...employers can take action. I am sure if ND's policy was a suspension that is what he would recieve..no more. I would guess that the policy states expulsion and rescinding their scholarship.

[buckfever]

ryan: it's actually one ounce.

Here's what it boils down to. Was he on school property? No. Was he under the supervision of the school? No. Did his offense affect the school in any way? No. Therefore, IMO, it's none of their business. The courts will punish him as they see fit. (That's why we have these great little things called laws).

This is the kind of thing that if the team wants to impose a suspension, then that's fine (albeit not an entire season). Talking about getting punished twice for the same offense.

I disagree. Simply b/c he wasn't involved in a school-related activity is IMMATERIAL. If he was producing porn films off campus, ND would still have every right to boot him. The school sets its own rules and can hold its student body to whatever standard it sees fit. The reason why ND grads get good jobs is b/c the school is known for turning out high-quality individuals. ND has a vested interest in protecting the integrity associated with its name, so in that respect, making sure that its student body is complying with the law is very much its business.

If people don't like it, there's plenty of other places to go.

[lymanl3]

Good for Notre Dame, wish all schools treated everyone the same !! Too bad when they hit the pro level they don't crack down on them as well . Anything involving drugs , should be automatic life removal from the respective sport they are in , I mean everyone has their bad day but hey when all these Colleges and Pro teams start cracking down, , instead of smacking them on the hands , maybe some of them will learn . When they hit the pro level they think they are untouchable , it's time they start cracking down , pure and simple!!


I totally agree....you think if Tank wasnt a Bear he would be allowed to leave the state??

[ryan hickey]

Ryan - That's pure speculation regarding what happens to a "regular" student. I don't know either, but I'd speculate that any student would receive an identical punishment. ND is a private catholic school and can set whatever rules it wants, so it really doesn't matter what happens when a kid gets pulled over by the cops.

And by the way, your hypothetical is wrong. If you got caught with 8 oz, you'd be charged w/ state felony possession probably coupled with a second felony charge of intent to distribute. You'd probably also face federal felony charges if engaged of interstate transportation of that much pot.

I doubt this will hurt ND's recruiting one iota. They aren't recruiting or typically getting the kind of kids that would worry about that anyway. If anything, I'd think that parents would look at this particular situation and WANT to send their kids there because of it.


i AM speculating here, but am i wrong? honestly don't think so. how would administrators actually find out about a simple pot posession charge? imo, they wouldn't find out unless the kid is an athlete because if he/she is a regular student NOBODY REALLY CARES if they got caught with some weed.

also, i disagree that ND isn't 'lookin at the kind of kids that worry...' i mean, its not news thats lots of high school athletes smoke a little weed (at least they did when i was in school) here and there.


don't get me wrong here guys, i ain't advocating pot use by any measure. just think the punishment in this case was a bit harsh.

[AteUp]

IMO, 1-this probably wasn't his first run-in with trouble.

2-If they kicked him off the team, he would have to pay his own way to school. I'm guessing he would transfer anyway. You think he really wants to go there so much he would pay for it?

3-You can get kicked out of private HIGH SCHOOLS for less than what he did.

[michunter]

I totally agree....you think if Tank wasnt a Bear he would be allowed to leave the state??
Do you think if it was me or you wanting to go somewhere that a judge would let us go out of the state , wether super bowl or not his butt should be left in Chicago, maybe next time he can be a football player instead of playing like he is the hood still shooting it up!!

[KYhunter79]

I agree with KYCatbird and Hickey. I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime. However, I agree with everyone else because he knew how strict ND's policys are, so he put himself in jeopardy. Btw, everyone needs to stop treating marijuana like heroine.

[lymanl3]

No way...we would be sitting at home with an ankle braclet on!

[michunter]

I agree with KYCatbird and Hickey. I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime. However, I agree with everyone else because he knew how strict ND's policys are, so he put himself in jeopardy. Btw, everyone needs to stop treating marijuana like heroine.
Well not to start a argument , but marijuana is illegal just like heroine, coke or anything else . If the person got nailed for having 10 pounds of coke in his car or marijuana , the offense would be the same , So I think they should treat it the same , A drug is a drug, and thats the way it is!!!

[KYhunter79]

Well not to start a argument , but marijuana is illegal just like heroine, coke or anything else . If the person got nailed for having 10 pounds of coke in his car or marijuana , the offense would be the same , So I think they should treat it the same , A drug is a drug, and thats the way it is!!!

No sir. You are wrong. Narcotics are a whole new ballgame. Possession of Marijuana is a misdemeanor under 8 ounces. Possession of 1/2 gram of cocaine is a felony.

[michunter]

No sir. You are wrong. Narcotics are a whole new ballgame. Possession of Marijuana is a misdemeanor under 8 ounces. Possession of 1/2 gram of cocaine is a felony.
Get pulled over , and let them find a good amount , and see what happens , drugs are drugs pure and simple !!

[KYhunter79]

Get pulled over , and let them find a good amount , and see what happens , drugs are drugs pure and simple !!

I just told you what would happen. Laws are laws, pure and simple. Possession of Marijuana under 8 ounces is a misdemeanor, possession of any amount of a narcotic is an automatic felony.

[buckfever]

No sir. You are wrong. Narcotics are a whole new ballgame. Possession of Marijuana is a misdemeanor under 8 ounces. Possession of 1/2 gram of cocaine is a felony.

He may be wrong that "narcotics" include "marijuana (I don't know what it's called under the criminal codes), but I know you're wrong if you think possession of 7 1/2 oz of pot won't get you a first class felony ticket to the pokey.

[KYhunter79]

He may be wrong that "narcotics" include "marijuana (I don't know what it's called under the criminal codes), but I know you're wrong if you think possession of 7 1/2 oz of pot won't get you a first class felony ticket to the pokey.

What is it 7oz?

[kenlake]

I'm not sure where you guys get your info, definetely not real world experience! You can get caught with cigarette papers (or any paraphenalia, sp?)3 times & it is considered a FELONY! Had plenty of friends get caught with less than 8oz. & spend the night in the crossbar motel.

[KYCatBirdHunter]

I don't know where the 8 ounces came from. It's 1 ounce. And YES, under an ounce is a misdemeanor. And YES, if you get caught with any cocaine, you're in a heap of trouble. There is a difference. It's not "Drugs are drugs pure and simple." Think about it. Alcohol is a drug. Nicotine is a drug. Aspirin is a drug. The only difference here is the law.

[Feedman]

The kid got what he deserved. He broke the rules. By reading the posts in this thread you can see how "morals" are going away in this country. How can smoking dope be considered "OK" to do and you not have some type of punishment if you get caught????????
I guess that I am just too Old Fashion.:mad:

[KYCatBirdHunter]

I dunno. Do you drink?

[kenlake]

So, if you smoke weed you don't have morals? Laughable man, Laughable.

[KYHUNTER14]

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I think he meant that taking up for someone because they knowingly broke rules and laws then their mommy tried to make the University out as the bad guy and having people on here agree with that shows where the morals are headed in this country.

I have known a few potheads and forgive me for being judgmental, but I have never thought of them as morally sound people. I know people want to say, that it isnt as bad as drinking, but it is much more illegal.

[KYhunter79]

I know people want to say, that it isnt as bad as drinking, but it is much more illegal.

So is doing 45 in a 35. Is a speeder immoral as well?

[lymanl3]

So, if you smoke weed you don't have morals? Laughable man, Laughable.


Nice dig of the labowskie John.T. I think we are digressing here a bit. 1. I am glad ND made a fundamental decision to uphold its standards...a no brainer. 2. Momma should not be disappointed with ND..she should be applauding them for "potentially" initiating a life changing experience for this young boy. 3. This boy is not a victim...wait yes he is....victim of enabling. If the punishment is too harsh..then it can be revised, but doubtful. For once, I am glad and I only hope this has a domino effect for all educational institutions to apply "equal" consequences for "all" those who violate fundamental policies.

Oh, and I doubt mommy will have any effect on ND's drug policy..

[KYhunter79]

Nice dig of the labowskie John.T. I think we are digressing here a bit. 1. I am glad ND made a fundamental decision to uphold its standards...a no brainer. 2. Momma should not be disappointed with ND..she should be applauding them for "potentially" initiating a life changing experience for this young boy. 3. This boy is not a victim...wait yes he is....victim of enabling. If the punishment is too harsh..then it can be revised, but doubtful. For once, I am glad and I only hope this has a domino effect for all educational institutions to apply "equal" consequences for "all" those who violate fundamental policies.

Oh, and I doubt mommy will have any effect on ND's drug policy..

Well, that's just like your opinion, man...;)

[michunter]

Well sounds to mee like we have some genuine pot heads on here, better watch it you might be the next ones kicked out ,LOL:rolleyes:

[KYHUNTER14]

So is doing 45 in a 35. Is a speeder immoral as well?

I hate to answer a question with a question, but here goes.

I don't know you or any other posters on here personally. But lets say you have a son or daughter. Would you be more upset if they got a speeding ticket or got arrested for drug possession?

[KYhunter79]

I hate to answer a question with a question, but here goes.

I don't know you or any other posters on here personally. But lets say you have a son or daughter. Would you be more upset if they got a speeding ticket or got arrested for drug possession?

Oh, I understand what you are saying. My point was just because someone does something illegal, doesn't make them immoral.

On another note, I don't understand peoples thinking of Marijuana as so taboo. It is illegal, but it isn't any worse than alcohol. It causes a whole lot less problems too. This is coming from a person that is 100% drug free and willing to take a drug test. So I'm not biased because I smoke pot...

[kenlake]

Not sure of the original source of the taboo, but it didn't help when Reagan came out back in the early 80's and stated that marijuana was as dangerous as heroin. Maybe not exact quote, but it's extremely close. There are a lot of, well, let's say, "not heavily experienced people" who take what they hear from so-called "authority figures, etc." and call it "the truth."

[AteUp]

Anybody ever read any of the marijuana debates at ArcheryTalk.com?:eek: They go on forever with both sides making very valid arguments for and against. Just don't make it personal please. We don't need anybody calling anybody a crackhead.

[maxcam]

I hate to answer a question with a question, but here goes.

I don't know you or any other posters on here personally. But lets say you have a son or daughter. Would you be more upset if they got a speeding ticket or got arrested for drug possession?


Ild beat their arse regardless.....Just like my daddy did me! ;)

[scratch]

YELP!!!!!!!!:eek:

[AteUp]

Ild beat their arse regardless.....Just like my daddy did me! ;)

Yeah, and look how you turned out!:eek:;)

[plowboy]

I'm no expert in human behavior and would never attempt to predict which behavior would result in what. However, I do believe that we enact laws, rules, regulations, etc for a reason and if we do not adhere to these or if we are not uniform with the admonishment then the entire puppose is lost. Whether we feel that the punishment fits the crime or not, I think, is totally dependent on the individual. Sounds like this kid is accustomed to doing what he wants and counting on Momma to go to bat for him if somebody doesn't like it.

[MsgMills]

Ok, this is for you guy's who think the punishment is too harsh for the crime...I believe it is not...Open the kids eyes up and maybe he will see the light...But having a momma who thinks like she does and the kid will never see the light...


I was in the Military for over 20 years...If you were caught, come up posititive for any type of drug in your system that was against the law...And you were an E-5 ( Non-Commishioned Officer ) Sergeant or above you automatically punished with 45 days of Hard Labor, forfieture of 1/2 months pay for up to 3 months, demoted in rank 1 grade down and discharged from the Military after doing your 45 days of hard labor.... No questions asked no 2nd chances...Now if you were an E-4 and below, they would give you a second chance or let you out of the service your choice, but you would still be demoted and lose 1/2 months pay for 3 months and still serve the 45 days of hard labor if you decide to stay in....

And I agree with every bit of the punishishment as well....

So as for the kid and his crime vs. punishishment...Heck yeah he deserved what he got...He was given a free ride to a respectable College and not that many kids are given that type of gift...So if he can't obey the rules and regulations...He should be kicked out....

Same goes for any other kid going to college be it free or you are paying for it yourself....Break the law pay the penalty...

As far as Hickey, KyHunter79 and whoever else think that he was punished too harshly and feel that marijuana won't hurt you...Your still too young to have any true adult thinking for life...Plus have you ever watched an egg frying in a skillet while your cooking it? well if you have just remember that's what is happening to your brain everytime that you smoke dope....

[KYCatBirdHunter]

well it seems obvious that people have confused right and wrong with legality. The two are not connected in any way whatsoever, to believe they are is to delude yourself.

It used to be illegal for women to vote, workers to disobey their employers, and to (*GASP*) drink a beer. There's plenty more unjust laws that we had in the past, that everyone agrees now were unjust and did not reflect the base principle of right and wrong. To think that we don't have a whole slew of those laws sitting on the books right now is naive.

And by the way, I tend to think that my ability to separate what people tell me and what I believe is one of the more adult aspects of my personality.

[MsgMills]

So even if it says in the Bible, use the Herbs of the Earth and enjoy them, is or would be your stance and any other Dope Smoking person on this planet in a court of Law, to try and get out of the Fine imposed by a judge or Higher Authority?

[grouseguy]

And by the way, I tend to think that my ability to separate what people tell me and what I believe is one of the more adult aspects of my personality.

Well said...individuals capable of "independent thought" are obviously in short supply around here.

[lymanl3]

Independent thought however, doesnt mean its close to being rational.

[trust me]

Well said...individuals capable of "independent thought" are obviously in short supply around here.

I consider myself to be a very independent thinker, and the fact that my views differ from yours doesn't indicate anything other than a difference of opinion.

[grouseguy]

Independent thought however, doesnt mean its close to being rational.

Possibly...However, on the flip side, blind adherance to any law, doctrine, philosophy, etc. without questioning its validity is rarely, if ever, a trait deserving of any respect.

[WBBP]

I seriously doubt that a regular student at ND would be sent home for doing this crime if it was off campus meaning that since this kid is on scholarship and an athlete he can be treated to a higher standard which seems reasonable, but how much of a higher standard is reasonable.

IMO, the policy is way too harsh for a first time offender. I would suggest kicking the kid out for the rest of the semester, requiring him to attend a drug clinic that summer before he returns for the fall semester. A 5 month suspesion from playing sports before he returns to the team, and he would be subject to mandatory drug testing when he returns.

Guys, this kid is what 19, this offense is not worth ruining his life over. What ever happened to second chnces in life?

[grouseguy]

I consider myself to be a very independent thinker, and the fact that my views differ from yours doesn't indicate anything other than a difference of opinion.

I concur, and I've learned that you have an opinion worthy of my respect even when we disagree. However, on this board, I find that you represent the "exception" because you are capable of seeing the other persons point of view. You see way too many posts that start..."I just can't see how anyone could..." When you see a post start like that, or something similar, you almost know you're not going to see a well thought out position.

[MsgMills]

I would trully bet that this isn't his first offense. Besides this kid was given the chance of a lifetime by most standards. A full complete scholarship for 4 years and he signed the contract showing that he agreed with the rules and regulations of the school...No if's, and's or but's about it, he broke the rules and therefore gets the punishment that has been agreed upon by the School adminstrators. An his momma needs to get a real clue on life, and start raising her son the right way and not the stupid way she is raising him now....

Spare the rod, spoil the child is how I was raised and that's how I am raising my boys... This country is lacking too much disicipline of children and when parents open their eyes and see it, the better off kids will be down the road....

[KYhunter79]

I seriously doubt that a regular student at ND would be sent home for doing this crime if it was off campus meaning that since this kid is on scholarship and an athlete he can be treated to a higher standard which seems reasonable, but how much of a higher standard is reasonable.

IMO, the policy is way too harsh for a first time offender. I would suggest kicking the kid out for the rest of the semester, requiring him to attend a drug clinic that summer before he returns for the fall semester. A 5 month suspesion from playing sports before he returns to the team, and he would be subject to mandatory drug testing when he returns.

Guys, this kid is what 19, this offense is not worth ruining his life over. What ever happened to second chnces in life?


Uh oh. WBBP has been smokin' dope with me and Hickey! :(

[WBBP]

MSG MIlls: I would consider this player in military terms to be a PFC, so he would qualify for counseling and a second chance.

I am saying the rules are too harsh in this instance.

K

[WBBP]

KYhunter79: No, never smoked any dope, but everyone has their issues and I have plenty. Over time I have learned to be less judgmental.

K

[trust me]

I
Guys, this kid is what 19, this offense is not worth ruining his life over. What ever happened to second chnces in life?

I think we've seen many instances in which college athletes get second chances. His second chance may not be at Notre Dame, but he'll land somewhere that will be glad to have him and his minor indiscretions. As for non-athletes, we have several forum members right here that acknowledge past screwups, and they proceeded on to second and maybe even third chances. The kid's life is not over, not by a longshot.

This kid screwed up a great shot at a great school. Getting kicked off a ball team isn't really that big of a deal; missing out on a Notre Dame education is what he should be kicking his own butt over. I spent a week on Notre Dame's campus once, and I spent the whole time wondering how many second, third, and fourth jobs I could find so I could afford to send my kids there. It's a great place of learning, even for a Protestant. (They'll let us in there, you know.)

Regardless of how you feel about pot and pot smoking, there are rules in life. You follow them or you don't. I have rules in my house as I'm sure each of you do, and you may not agree with mine, but it's my house, and you'll abide by them while here or you'll leave.

Notre Dame is a private school and they accept only the best of students, athletes, faculty, etc. and I'm sure their rules are far more stringent than Eastern or Morehead or U of K. Abiding by their rules is a small price to pay for the opportunity to get a premier education. If bouncing a ball gets me that education for free, then I believe I could lay off the pot for 4 years in return. That's a mighty small inconvenience to endure.

[grouseguy]

Regardless of how you feel about pot and pot smoking, there are rules in life. You follow them or you don't. I have rules in my house as I'm sure each of you do, and you may not agree with mine, but it's my house, and you'll abide by them while here or you'll leave.


trust me,

While I'm basically on the other side of this argument from you. Kudos to you on the best articulated argument that has been presented on your side of the debate. Well Done!!!

[lymanl3]

Possibly...However, on the flip side, blind adherance to any law, doctrine, philosophy, etc. without questioning its validity is rarely, if ever, a trait deserving of any respect.



Without questioning....please tell me you’re not referring to the "basic" policy he violated? This isn’t a Supreme Court issue.

IMO..there is no questioning this. He was afforded a nice scholarship to a reputable institution. In addition, I am sure this was an impulsive decision made by the University. The University has a lot more to lose as compared to this young man losing a semester of eligibility. Trust me..I am all for rehabilitation, I facilitated adolescent recovery for 2yrs. I am also a firm believer in being held responsible, and accountable. If not, one enable’s and the cycle WILL continue. I highly doubt he is going cold turkey. If the boy is truly an upstanding citizen, he will use this as a springboard and suggest good choices to his peers.

[lymanl3]

One semester...thats it. It also says in the brief that he can reapply. Looks like he is a pretty good guard...ND has a good team and are in the spotlight..I am glad they took honerable action. I hope the kid comes back, to "complete" his primary objective of attaining an education at ND.

On a side note....I was 16 yrs old...got nailed for minor consumption during the summer in another county...getting ready to begin senior year of baseball. I had a choice,....I could ride it out and not tell coach, or I could be honerable and face my consequences. I told coach, and had to sit out games my senior year, pick up trash on the road in an orange jacket in the cold. I learned a valuble lesson, and my parents were not bad mouthing anyone, or my H.S. He is not the victim of any injustice, and his parents should recognize that.

[grouseguy]

Without questioning....please tell me you’re not referring to the "basic" policy he violated?

We very well may be looking at this from different perspectives. I'll try to explain my point of view.

As trust me put it (paraphrasing)...it's Notre Dame's private house and they can make whatever rules these choose while your in it. While that simple fact can't really be argued, one thing that I hate is "waste", and IMHO this policy is "wasteful" in today's society. There simply has to be a higher priority for the university's limited resources than policing and disciplining a college student smoking pot, not to mention the negative publicity that this incident has unnecessarily caused for both sides. Obviously, our internet opinions are meaningless to Notre Dame, but everyone is still free to form their own opinions as to their policy's sensibilities considering all factors.

Admittedly I am usually a social liberal and a fiscal conservative, and I view this situation much as I do the overall "war on drugs". Considering the dollars spent, are we really getting a return on our investment? Are there more drugs overall now than before the "war on drugs" began? I live in eastern KY and considering that fact, which would you think I consider a larger societal problem...marijuana or meth? I'd say that me and most of my neighbors would see meth as the much greater threat. Therefore, why not dedicate our limited (taxpayer funded) resources towards the more serious problem. It should be simple economic priorities. I suppose you should expect an institution such as Notre Dame to value their "ideals" over "economics", but to me, if I look at it from a cost/benefit standpoint (monetary and nonmonetary) I just don't see "the juice being worth the squeeze".

[buckfever]

I suppose you should expect an institution such as Notre Dame to value their "ideals" over "economics", but to me, if I look at it from a cost/benefit standpoint (monetary and nonmonetary) I just don't see "the juice being worth the squeeze".

I just don't see how anyone could ever. . . .make that argument and be surprised when they are accused of being a dope or meth fiend. :)

[lymanl3]

We very well may be looking at this from different perspectives. I'll try to explain my point of view.

As trust me put it (paraphrasing)...it's Notre Dame's private house and they can make whatever rules these choose while your in it. While that simple fact can't really be argued, one thing that I hate is "waste", and IMHO this policy is "wasteful" in today's society. There simply has to be a higher priority for the university's limited resources than policing and disciplining a college student smoking pot, not to mention the negative publicity that this incident has unnecessarily caused for both sides. Obviously, our internet opinions are meaningless to Notre Dame, but everyone is still free to form their own opinions as to their policy's sensibilities considering all factors.

Admittedly I am usually a social liberal and a fiscal conservative, and I view this situation much as I do the overall "war on drugs". Considering the dollars spent, are we really getting a return on our investment? Are there more drugs overall now than before the "war on drugs" began? I live in eastern KY and considering that fact, which would you think I consider a larger societal problem...marijuana or meth? I'd say that me and most of my neighbors would see meth as the much greater threat. Therefore, why not dedicate our limited (taxpayer funded) resources towards the more serious problem. It should be simple economic priorities. I suppose you should expect an institution such as Notre Dame to value their "ideals" over "economics", but to me, if I look at it from a cost/benefit standpoint (monetary and nonmonetary) I just don't see "the juice being worth the squeeze".


Losing the battle on drugs...If I can save one child on my job thats winning. Operationalize it however, monetarily, yes we are losing. Meth is way worse than pot...not as prevelant, but more destructive. Meth users have no regard for anything once they are dependent. Correct, our dialogue is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I dont think ND's policy is a waste and they intend to run a clean program, if not they would not be ND, but the Sally Struthers school of education. I clearly have liberal values, however, I also have a conservative upbringing that guides me as well. If ND doesnt do anything, then the ol "Give an' inch take a mile" saying applies...IMO. I dont think they are disciplining this "student"...he was a representative of the university and its' standards. I do expect ND to value their ideals, and to possess values...without them...well..you can paint the picture..and I know they are relative.

[aceoky]

Are there more drugs overall now than before the "war on drugs" began? I live in eastern KY and considering that fact, which would you think I consider a larger societal problem...marijuana or meth?

I'd say that me and most of my neighbors would see meth as the much greater threat. Therefore, why not dedicate our limited (taxpayer funded) resources towards the more serious problem. It should be simple economic priorities.

Prepare for a huge shock.........but I agree with that!!

There is NO comparison IMHO since "meth" has hit big here, the crime rates have gone up beyond belief, the car wrecks where meth is involved , ask any LEO, and they'll tell you real quick, that's the truth...... I've had several tell me it's unbelievable how bad it is, and getting worse daily.

I think there has pretty much always been "some" coke etc (I've even seen it sold from machines );). around these parts, but since "meth" became so big, it's like nothing else even compares to it, I did have the recent stats on meth lab busts, not sure where they're saved right now, but they are HUGE....

Add to all the other problems, everyone who is exposed to the drug (or manufacturing of it) are doing GREAT harm to themselves and often others who get exposed without even knowing it (that's from my Aunt who is an RN and was just the other day talking about how bad it's getting every single day around here!)
From what I gathered from her, the chemicals used to make this junk can get into clothing, skin etc and just being in contact can expose you to them.....:eek:

On top of all of that, a huge percentage of the meth labs have children in the area of the lab, again they get exposed to the chemicals, and sometimes the drugs themselves by contact and airborne particles......that's just SICK imho, exposing young children (some very young) to a dangerous chemical and/or drug residue/particles ........:mad:

METH is bad ...........very,very bad, for the people and the environment ...

[lymanl3]

Prepare for a huge shock.........but I agree with that!!

There is NO comparison IMHO since "meth" has hit big here, the crime rates have gone up beyond belief, the car wrecks where meth is involved , ask any LEO, and they'll tell you real quick, that's the truth...... I've had several tell me it's unbelievable how bad it is, and getting worse daily.

I think there has pretty much always been "some" coke etc (I've even seen it sold from machines );). around these parts, but since "meth" became so big, it's like nothing else even compares to it, I did have the recent stats on meth lab busts, not sure where they're saved right now, but they are HUGE....

Add to all the other problems, everyone who is exposed to the drug (or manufacturing of it) are doing GREAT harm to themselves and often others who get exposed without even knowing it (that's from my Aunt who is an RN and was just the other day talking about how bad it's getting every single day around here!)
From what I gathered from her, the chemicals used to make this junk can get into clothing, skin etc and just being in contact can expose you to them.....:eek:

On top of all of that, a huge percentage of the meth labs have children in the area of the lab, again they get exposed to the chemicals, and sometimes the drugs themselves by contact and airborne particles......that's just SICK imho, exposing young children (some very young) to a dangerous chemical and/or drug residue/particles ........:mad:

METH is bad ...........very,very bad, for the people and the environment ...


Meth is nasty hands down...when I remove children they cannot take any of their belongings because of the contamination. Sad that mommy and daddy can have meth, but a child cant take their toys...

[aceoky]

Meth is nasty hands down...when I remove children they cannot take any of their belongings because of the contamination. Sad that mommy and daddy can have meth, but a child cant take their toys...

Yeah; that's what I mean........

I'm not really "up" on drugs , drug use etc.. but I've NEVER heard of anything like this "stuff".........

[ryan hickey]

I agree with KYCatbird and Hickey. I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime. However, I agree with everyone else because he knew how strict ND's policys are, so he put himself in jeopardy. Btw, everyone needs to stop treating marijuana like heroine.



we gotta stop all this agreeing stuff '79;) :)

[ryan hickey]

I seriously doubt that a regular student at ND would be sent home for doing this crime if it was off campus meaning that since this kid is on scholarship and an athlete he can be treated to a higher standard which seems reasonable, but how much of a higher standard is reasonable.

IMO, the policy is way too harsh for a first time offender. I would suggest kicking the kid out for the rest of the semester, requiring him to attend a drug clinic that summer before he returns for the fall semester. A 5 month suspesion from playing sports before he returns to the team, and he would be subject to mandatory drug testing when he returns.

Guys, this kid is what 19, this offense is not worth ruining his life over. What ever happened to second chnces in life?



thank u kalen.


and cmon master sarge, u don't know how old i am. not advocating pot use here like i said, just don't think the punishment fits here. i know u r military and really don't expect us to agree here, but we can still be cool...:cool: :)

[AteUp]

Notre Dame is not in the business of rehabbing people. They are an elite university. They have a waiting list of people wanting to enroll, (much less play football on scholarship), a mile long. A "normal" student probably wouldn't have got the press a football student did, so they may have been able to stay in school for the simple fact the university may never have known about it. Why would they keep a football player who was caught with MJ when there's a thousand kids out there who will not smoke pot and play for them? This shouldn't hurt the kid one bit. If he was good enough to play for ND, he should have plenty of schools that would offer him a scholly now. If he is worse off after this, it's his own fault. My guess is, he wasn't there for a degree in anything anyway.

[naturalelite]

There is a REASON ND is held to such a high regaurd. Things like this are the reason why. The kid screwed up in some ways we all have at some point. It cost some more than it does others depending on how bad and where they screw up. I feel sorry for the kid because of this but I hope he learns from it and moves on. Perfect example Warren Sapp played DT for miami got busted for mari-juwana didn't get kicked out of school went on to be in the nfl. Randy Moss same thing at marshall. Right or wrong certain colleges hold their students to higher standards than others. My college had a zero tolerance policy for drugs don't know anyone that ever got busted so can't tell ya how they would have handled it.

[AteUp]

My college had a zero tolerance policy for drugs

Human Growth Hormone must not have been one of them!!:eek: Just kidding, I'm sure I outweigh you by a kilo or two.

AHH, I kill me!
http://home.insight.rr.com/jwing/alf.jpg

[naturalelite]

Are you making fun because it appears like I dont' have a neck. Or the fact that I have to buy TREE STUMP camo instead of tree bark camo.

[ryan hickey]

Are you making fun because it appears like I dont' have a neck. Or the fact that I have to buy TREE STUMP camo instead of tree bark camo.




ummmmmm...... yes.......:)

and yes........:D

[AteUp]

I have to buy TREE STUMP camo instead of tree bark camo.

Holy crap that is absolute hilarity!!!:D

[AteUp]

My camo matches my bed covers.

[Blood River]

Punishment was too severe. Give me a break.

[lymanl3]

sure:rolleyes:

[WBBP]

I read in the CJ that he is coming back for the summer semester and will play ball in the fall.

I guess most of you were wrong and some common sense was applied to the situation.

K

[trust me]

Nobody was right and nobody was wrong. It was ND's problem to address and I'm sure they handled it by the book, whatever their particular book says about such things.

Getting dumped by a prestigious school in the middle of your scholarship sport's season is still pretty harsh. It wasn't like a death sentence but he'll steer clear of the weed in the future, I'm betting.

[WBBP]

Notre Dame is not in the business of rehabbing people. They are an elite university. They have a waiting list of people wanting to enroll, (much less play football on scholarship), a mile long. A "normal" student probably wouldn't have got the press a football student did, so they may have been able to stay in school for the simple fact the university may never have known about it. Why would they keep a football player who was caught with MJ when there's a thousand kids out there who will not smoke pot and play for them? This shouldn't hurt the kid one bit. If he was good enough to play for ND, he should have plenty of schools that would offer him a scholly now. If he is worse off after this, it's his own fault. My guess is, he wasn't there for a degree in anything anyway.


Sorry, Trust me, but this thought process is wrong.

[AteUp]

They decided to let him back in, that's their choice. They are in the driver's seat. My post stands.

[WBBP]

Ate Up, here are two of your thoughts that are wrong, stand by them if you want:

1) Notre Dame is not in the business of rehabbing people

2) They are an elite university. :eek:

[AteUp]

They made a decision to let him back in. Maybe he doesn't need rehab. Whatever reason that led to their decision, I'm sure it was done in their best interest.

[WBBP]

They University probably looked in their mirror and realized they were being hypocrites since their charter from the Pope is based on heavy consumption of of alcohol which is encouraged. Alcohol is a drug right?

Their best interest was to avoid a lawsuit from the player and parent (s) and avoid any further negative exposure, so I guess you were right on that one. About time.

K

[WBBP]

Pope is catholic. ND is a Catholic University................

[trust me]

... since their charter from the Pope is based on heavy consumption of of alcohol which is encouraged....
K

Huh? Can't get my mind around that one.

[WBBP]

It was a jab at Ate-UP and drinking...........

[aceoky]

He may be wrong that "narcotics" include "marijuana (I don't know what it's called under the criminal codes), but I know you're wrong if you think possession of 7 1/2 oz of pot won't get you a first class felony ticket to the pokey.

I had to look that one up, since there was so many differnet opinions on it...looks like < 8 oz IS a misdemeanor to me.....

But I'd guess you'd get more than a ticket still....fwiw

Kentucky (C)
Possession/sale:

=< 8 oz.: up to 1; $500
>8 oz.: 1-5; $10,000
>5 lbs.: 5-10; $10,000

Possesion of Marijuana in the State of KY Laws

[KYhunter79]

I had to look that one up, since there was so many differnet opinions on it...looks like < 8 oz IS a misdemeanor to me.....

But I'd guess you'd get more than a ticket still....fwiw

Kentucky (C)
Possession/sale:

=< 8 oz.: up to 1; $500
>8 oz.: 1-5; $10,000
>5 lbs.: 5-10; $10,000

Possesion of Marijuana in the State of KY Laws


I thought I was right. ;)

I'm glad they let the kid back in school. I wish him the best of luck.

[buckfever]

I had to look that one up, since there was so many differnet opinions on it...looks like < 8 oz IS a misdemeanor to me.....

But I'd guess you'd get more than a ticket still....fwiw

Kentucky (C)
Possession/sale:

=< 8 oz.: up to 1; $500
>8 oz.: 1-5; $10,000
>5 lbs.: 5-10; $10,000

Possesion of Marijuana in the State of KY Laws (http://Possesion%20of%20Marijuana%20in%20the%20State%20of %20KY%20Laws)

Yes. You are correct. I was wrong. Law was amended in 1992. Possession of less than 8 oz is a class A misdemeanor not a felony.

If you have more than 8 oz and you're presumed to be trafficking in mj. Even if trafficking, first offense, misdemeanor; second offense, felony. If you can prove you weren't trafficking, it's still just a misdemeanor.

Apologies to all I said were wrong.

[ryan hickey]

I read in the CJ that he is coming back for the summer semester and will play ball in the fall.

I guess most of you were wrong and some common sense was applied to the situation.

K

glad they're gonna let him play!:)

[lymanl3]

Glad they worked something out, and I am glad they stuck to their guns for the semester. I am also glad to see he made a positive choice and will be back quick in the summer to start off on a good foot. I am sure he learned a valuble lesson.

Lyman