Preference Points in Elk Draw

[predator]

Asked this on another thread to Elkguy who mentioned that when the herd reached 10,000 the number of tags might be between 1500 and 2000 per year.

Do you think that the Dept should start awarding elk tags based on preference points when they get to that 1500 to 2000 number or maybe even before??

[Highbow]

It should have been started from the first drawing, there have already been hunters drawn more than once. Or they could just say those drawn cannot apply for two years afterwards.

[Shelbyhunter]

You have to figure that the tags will double every year, from here on out. With elk being killed in Pendleton, Adair, Bourbon, and Garrard counties, they have to increase the number of tags.

Preference points would be nice though. I have entered each year and have not been drawn. BUT that is why they have a draw. Even past winners should be able to enter.

Eventually, the elk WILL migrate further west and north. It might be worth it to purchase land in Estill county for elk hunting in the future.

[mcdenney]

You have to figure that the tags will double every year, from here on out. With elk being killed in Pendleton, Adair, Bourbon, and Garrard counties, they have to increase the number of tags.

Preference points would be nice though. I have entered each year and have not been drawn. BUT that is why they have a draw. Even past winners should be able to enter.

Eventually, the elk WILL migrate further west and north. It might be worth it to purchase land in Estill county for elk hunting in the future.

Preference points should have been started at the beginning, IMHO and they should allow the hunter to decide if they want to be considered for a bull tag, either or just a cow tag. While I have been fortunate enough to get drawn for a cow tag, I want my next tag to be a bull tag. Other states do this and I think KY should consider it.

As for elk being taken in Bourbon County.... I don't think so. Also, I don't think the state will allow much migration west. They may decide to add a few more mountaineous counties but I can't see a big migration being allowed by the state.

[MsgMills]

What's the reasoning behind not letting them Migrate where they want to go, wasn't that the main reason in bringing them back to Ky? Or was it strictly to bring them only to certain Counties only? I say let them go where they want to go so that the whole State can eventually hunt them if Hunters want to...

Can someone fill me in on the reasoning behind keeping them in Western Counties only...Seems like only Western County Guides and other places of Business are the only ones making money off the Elk Hunting that is done each year....

[raven_over_easy]

What's the reasoning behind not letting them Migrate where they want to go, wasn't that the main reason in bringing them back to Ky? Or was it strictly to bring them only to certain Counties only? I say let them go where they want to go so that the whole State can eventually hunt them if Hunters want to...

Can someone fill me in on the reasoning behind keeping them in Western Counties only...Seems like only Western County Guides and other places of Business are the only ones making money off the Elk Hunting that is done each year....

Although there is a captive herd at land between the lakes, the largest population of wild free ranging elk are in the eastern part of the state. the eastern herd population is estimated a 7500+ animals as of fall 2006.

[4onaside]

Man, these things just don't mix with people population centers. It's wonderful that they are doing so well in the Eastern Kentucky mountains, because there is a lot of "open" land and relatively few people. And even there, they are already deemed a nuisance by some of the locals. But, can you imagine how they would get along in suburban Louisville, or Lexington. It t'would not work.

[4onaside]

From my selfish standpoint, I don't think that they should start a preference system, lol, since I was drawn this past season, and would like to be lucky again in 2007. However, from a fairness standpoint, a preference point system would put all of us lucky ones at the back of the line. And we really can't knock that, can we Marty, and Wademup and Raven?

[CSS archer]

If a preference system is employed, I'd suggest a weighted system. If you've applied 5 times and never drawn you get 5 times the chances that someone drawing for the first time. That way everyone has a chance and the previous applicants have a better chance. JMHO

How does that sound?

If a preference point system that some want, started this year, there would be 26,000 people ahead of you if you'd never applied, at 2,000 tags a year that would be 13 years.... Not much of an incentive to apply at all.

[mcdenney]

From my selfish standpoint, I don't think that they should start a preference system, lol, since I was drawn this past season, and would like to be lucky again in 2007. However, from a fairness standpoint, a preference point system would put all of us lucky ones at the back of the line. And we really can't knock that, can we Marty, and Wademup and Raven?

I still want a bull tag so bad I can taste it.:D

[GSP]

If a preference system is employed, I'd suggest a weighted system. If you've applied 5 times and never drawn you get 5 times the chances that someone drawing for the first time. That way everyone has a chance and the previous applicants have a better chance. JMHO

How does that sound?

If a preference point system that some want, started this year, there would be 26,000 people ahead of you if you'd never applied, at 2,000 tags a year that would be 13 years.... Not much of an incentive to apply at all.

I threw that out 3 years ago and it hit a brick wall. A great plan that I see no reason should not be adopted. This gives the folks that have bought chances a very slight "edge" over first timers.

[predator]

If a preference point system that some want, started this year, there would be 26,000 people ahead of you if you'd never applied, at 2,000 tags a year that would be 13 years.... Not much of an incentive to apply at all.

The way I see it now my odds every year is 400 out of 26,000, I'd be glad to put in every year for 1 in 13 odds. Think about it.

[wademup]

From a "fairness" standpoint a preference point system is probably a good idea,but here's a pretty good reason why the state shouldn't do it, MONEY!!
It would have to cost extra to put in a system to track them(points) and the truth is in a few years there will probably be 50 thousand who apply whether there are preference points or not, Once KY produces a 400" bull the applications will come from everywhere and from what I have seen in person and in pictures that day is coming soon!! I have no problem with a preference system but it is nice to get to sign up again next year. I just dont figure the state will go to the trouble when they are going to make a killing either way!!

Wademup

[NonTyp]

I don't know what the right system would be but I think preference points is looking in the right direction. I've used all my luck up the last couple of years!

[lances]

I agree 100% I have told tons of people that we should have a prefernece point system. I have put in every year and I would like to know that if I put in 20 years I will get drawn. It only seems fair. I am not greedy I only want my fair turn at a great opportunity. I will be happy if they start this year. I will keep my fingers crossed.

[naturalelite]

I agree 100% I have told tons of people that we should have a prefernece point system. I have put in every year and I would like to know that if I put in 20 years I will get drawn. It only seems fair. I am not greedy I only want my fair turn at a great opportunity. I will be happy if they start this year. I will keep my fingers crossed.
I agree most everything else has a point system to some degree why doesn't this?

[4onaside]

[quote=CSS archer;365186]If a preference system is employed, I'd suggest a weighted system. If you've applied 5 times and never drawn you get 5 times the chances that someone drawing for the first time. That way everyone has a chance and the previous applicants have a better chance. JMHO

How does that sound?

quote]
How does that sound? It sounds exactly like Oklahoma! That's what they have, and I have put in since time began without being successful. However, their opportunities are very limited, and once you are drawn, that's it for life!

[predator]

This one of the most unanimous threads I've seen on this forum, with the exception of the guys who have been drawn before(4onaside, thanks for being up front). But start everything with a clean slate in 2008, 2010 or whatever.
Look at the numbers, If I am pretty well assured that I will get drawn once every 15 years, I'm going to apply every year with out fail. I'm still only going to have $150.00 invested for my chances, even if the Dept raised it to $20.00 per year, thats only $300.00. A bargain. You can't even start to go out West for that kind of money. I'd go ahead an mail them all my money so I wouldn't miss a year.
I have always wanted to hunt elk, but there are a few things farther ahead of it on my list of things to do. If my odds where as listed above a I might get a little more fired up about elk hunting, maybe even join the Elk Foundation to learn more about them, I would travel East several times just to look over the country preparing for the day I would get drawn even if it was years in advance.
Maybe this idea should be pushed to the front burner a little.

[MrHank]

I also would like to see a points system put in, I like the idea of the longer you have been putting in without getting drawn the better your chances of getting drawn next year. But what about also giving incentives for the residents that have hunted all game here even before there was elk, after all we our the ones who helped pay for the elk. But the way it is now people who hunt elk only or out of staters have as much chance at getting drawn as we do but have less money or no money at all tied to them. At least make people buy a hunting liscense as well as an elk draw to be eligable, this would make more money for the state as well, but would not effect most KY. residents since we already do that anyway. But some kind of system is definately needed. I have put in every year and not been drawn and there is no guarentee that I or the next guy will no matter how long we put in be drawn.

[raven_over_easy]

I also would like to see a points system put in, I like the idea of the longer you have been putting in without getting drawn the better your chances of getting drawn next year. But what about also giving incentives for the residents that have hunted all game here even before there was elk, after all we our the ones who helped pay for the elk. But the way it is now people who hunt elk only or out of staters have as much chance at getting drawn as we do but have less money or no money at all tied to them. At least make people buy a hunting liscense as well as an elk draw to be eligable, this would make more money for the state as well, but would not effect most KY. residents since we already do that anyway. But some kind of system is definately needed. I have put in every year and not been drawn and there is no guarentee that I or the next guy will no matter how long we put in be drawn.

only 10% of Elk Permits can be non-resident.

[4onaside]

only 10% of Elk Permits can be non-resident.
For which I paid $415 (+the $10 application fee) for the privilege. ABSOLUTELY NO COMPLAINTS!, but just pointing out that fact to some of the boys who don't think that us foreigners are paying our fair share.

[tex]

How about 75% of the tags allotted to the Preference Point pool, and 25% randomly. So the people who put in every year have a better chance to draw, but there should also be some lucky first timers.

[brasskeeper]

Preference Points should be in place asap.

[raven_over_easy]

Preference points along with dividing up the restoration counties into zones or Units and creation of more limited-entry areas could become necessary when 1500-2000 permits are drawn to prevent over crowding in certian areas.

[MrHank]

Quote" For which I paid $415 (+the $10 application fee) for the privilege. ABSOLUTELY NO COMPLAINTS!, but just pointing out that fact to some of the boys who don't think that us foreigners are paying our fair share."
I know you paid your fair share and I don't have a problem with NR's, but you paid the $415 after you got drawn. Us residents have been paying for the elk long before there were even elk to hunt with our hunting and fishing liscense and any other permit we buy, just wish they made it easier to draw a tag when you have been putting in for it as long as they have had a drawing. I also go to TN. every year to fish and buy my NR permit and will propably go down there as well this year and deer hunt and help pay for your elk.

[raven_over_easy]

Us residents have been paying for the elk long before there were even elk to hunt with our hunting and fishing license and any other permit we buy,
(not exactly true) just wish they made it easier to draw a tag when you have been putting in for it as long as they have had a drawing. I also go to TN. every year to fish and buy my NR permit and will propably go down there as well this year and deer hunt and help pay for your elk.[/quote]

..."With that in mind, in 1990 the Elk Foundation began funding feasibility studies to determine if wild, free-ranging elk still had a place in some of their former eastern haunts."

In 2003, the Elk Foundation launched the Appalachians Wildlife Initiative (AWI), which is the umbrella habitat conservation program for the range of these three elk herds. Underneath the umbrella of the AWI, the Elk Foundation is developing a conservation plan for each herd. In Kentucky, our effort has been re-named the Eastern Coalfields Wildlife Initiative (ECWI). The ECWI is a very complex undertaking that contains some of the most innovative strategies currently being pursued by the Elk Foundation. Several of these strategies are outlined below.


2007 ECWI Projects, Goals and Funding Needs
Surface Mine Reclamation Reform
Surface mining for coal has a dramatic impact on the habitat of the region, and reclaimed surface mines provide habitat for elk and many grassland species of wildlife. The Elk Foundation is working with state and federal regulators to revise mine reclamation guidelines to allow companies to create good habitat during the initial reclamation process. With just some minor adjustments, reclaimed surface could provide outstanding habitat for elk, quail, grassland songbirds, short-eared owls and many other grassland species.
• 5-year cost estimate to achieve goal is $111,000.

Habitat Improvement
This strategy involves restoring habitat on old mine sites. In the past, many surface mines were reclaimed with undesirable grasses and other plants. Working with agency partners and private landowners, we are restoring high-quality vegetation to these sites through the use of fire, herbicides, ripping and the planting of new grasses, forbs, shrubs and trees. The Elk Foundation will leverage funding for these habitat improvement projects through federal Farm Bill programs, the US Forest Service and the US Fish and Wildlife Service cost share programs. The Elk Foundation also intends to develop a wildlife habitat consulting service to provide technical assistance to the mining industry to help create high-quality wildlife habitat on surface mines during the reclamation process.
• 5-year cost estimate to accomplish goal is $1,385,000.

Habitat Protection and Public Access to Wild Lands and Wildlife
Permanent protection of important habitat will be done through acquisitions (http://www.rmef.org/Conservation/HowWeWork/Protection/HowProtect/) and conservation easements (http://www.rmef.org/Conservation/HowWeWork/Protection/HowProtect/). The Elk Foundation uses GIS technology, land ownership data, State Wildlife Grant plan data, elk telemetry data, and data collected by using forward-looking infrared technology to find and count elk, deer, bears, cattle and horses.
Concurrently, the Elk Foundation will be working with partners to develop funding sources for land acquisitions and incentives for landowners to protect their lands with conservation easements. There is currently no dependable source of state funds for land acquisitions, and incentives for easements are limited to income tax and estate tax reductions. We believe that we can develop state-based incentives that will motivate more landowners to consider conservation agreements on their land.
• 5-year cost estimate to achieve goal is $3,566,500.
......and the list goes on!

Five-year cost estimate to fully implement the ECWI—the conservation plan for the elk zone of Kentucky is $5,616,000"

The bottom line is this: The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation has been the primary funding source for the elk program in Kentucky not the sale of license permits alone.

[CSS archer]

Quote" For which I paid $415 (+the $10 application fee) for the privilege. ABSOLUTELY NO COMPLAINTS!, but just pointing out that fact to some of the boys who don't think that us foreigners are paying our fair share."
I know you paid your fair share and I don't have a problem with NR's, but you paid the $415 after you got drawn. Us residents have been paying for the elk long before there were even elk to hunt with our hunting and fishing liscense and any other permit we buy, just wish they made it easier to draw a tag when you have been putting in for it as long as they have had a drawing. I also go to TN. every year to fish and buy my NR permit and will propably go down there as well this year and deer hunt and help pay for your elk.


Since the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation funded the restoration, NR dollars helped to put them here to start with. Very little if any KDFWR money was spent on the restoration.

[4onaside]

Since the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation funded the restoration, NR dollars helped to put them here to start with. Very little if any KDFWR money was spent on the restoration.
Somebody needs to point this out to Mark Marraccini with the KDF&W, who is now refusing to let the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency cross thru Kentucky with elk in our continuing effort to establish a wild tennessee herd. I wonder how he thinks the Kentucky elk got there to start with. Certainly other states between Kentucky and the origin points of your elk were not as hostile. He apparently has a short memory. We are being resisted from one of the states that has most benefited from transplantation.

[MrHank]

I just wish there was a points system thats helps the people that put in every year. I know the RMEF helped fund the elk, but the residents pay the money every year that funds the KDFWR, I would think they have an awful lot to do with the elk project. I don't have a problem with NR's because I am one in other states like TN where we go every year and pay our money for there projects. But we all agree we need a points system.

[naturalelite]

Somebody needs to point this out to Mark Marraccini with the KDF&W, who is now refusing to let the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency cross thru Kentucky with elk in our continuing effort to establish a wild tennessee herd. I wonder how he thinks the Kentucky elk got there to start with. Certainly other states between Kentucky and the origin points of your elk were not as hostile. He apparently has a short memory. We are being resisted from one of the states that has most benefited from transplantation.
This is a different thread altogether. From my understanding they are not testing for CWD on the elk being brought into TN. Tn is borded by 7 other states besides KY its not like TN is an island with only one entrance. Not trying to argue or thread hijack.

[EAST KY ENCORE]

I personally think that the counties where they stocked the elk should be given at least 10 guarnteed tags each year.Because they are the ones that have to put up with the aggrevating things.People's gardens destroyed fences tore down etc...:( But that is just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions..:D

[4onaside]

The thread has taken a sidetrack, for which I suppose I am at least partially responsible. However, elk talk is elk talk, and I do it wherever the opportunity presents itself. I don't believe that there is any test currently for CWD on live animals! That being the case, none of the elk stocked in Kentucky were tested, either! Since the elk will be in completely contained in a completely enclosed van while in the bluegrass state, or any other state, there has to be two conditions existing in order to transmit any disease to the Kentucky herd. The elk being transported have to be infected. Unlikely, since there has never been any indication of the existence of the disease at the origin. And, the truck(s) would have to be involved in a wreck in which the elk containment was compromised. I realize that they can get into Tennessee without having to go thru Kentucky(I believe that the current plan is Missouri, entering Tennessee at Dyersburg). However, I just thought that the attitude of the KDF&W was peculiar. "What was OK for us was fine, but not for you". Particularly, since evidence indicates that the existing Tennesse elk are already walking into Kentucky and vice versa.

[elkguy]

You make some good points. However, it is now illegal to transport elk through KY. Whether it is right, wrong, or fair does not matter right now.

On another note, we will be working with TWRA and kDFWR on more cross-border coopoeration and coordination regarding elk management. As you said, TN elk come to KY, and KY elk are going to TN as we speak. Elk have absolutely no respect for state sovereignty.

[aceoky]

From a "fairness" standpoint a preference point system is probably a good idea,but here's a pretty good reason why the state shouldn't do it, MONEY!!
It would have to cost extra to put in a system to track them(points) and the truth is in a few years there will probably be 50 thousand who apply whether there are preference points or not, Once KY produces a 400" bull the applications will come from everywhere and from what I have seen in person and in pictures that day is coming soon!! I have no problem with a preference system but it is nice to get to sign up again next year. I just dont figure the state will go to the trouble when they are going to make a killing either way!!

Wademup

They do it "out west" and have no problem selling tags, and as you've stated ONCE that 400" bull is taken (and I also believe it's going to happen soon) that IS the only way to keep many people putting in IMHO......fwiw (why risk losing numbers from those who've been putting in, and say "now everyone is putting in "???) Not likely IMHO

I will go out on a limb and say it will be that way , and sooner than later, it's a good thing for the KDFWR and the hunters, once things "are in place" I'm going to bet they do it....... :)

[wademup]

I think they will probably do it to and probably should,my point is that I think they are making a lot of money without the hassle so i am not sure they will go to the trouble when they dont have to.


Wademup

[raven_over_easy]

I think they will probably do it to and probably should,my point is that I think they are making a lot of money without the hassle so i am not sure they will go to the trouble when they dont have to.


Wademup

I aggree its' not a matter of if, it is only a matter of when.

[rouge]

i agree with raven,it will happen. on a different note, is anyone hunting elk sheds or is it allowed?

[raven_over_easy]

i agree with raven,it will happen. on a different note, is anyone hunting elk sheds or is it allowed?

It is allowed if you have access to property where there are Elk. What I have heard is that Elk keep their antlers longer than other deer species. It may be a little early to start looking for Elk sheds.

[scrape]

Yes, anything that might help to get drawn.

[CM12]

i agree with raven,it will happen. on a different note, is anyone hunting elk sheds or is it allowed?

Yes its allowed. Too early yet. Getting harder to get permission for the good spots. Lots of folks looking for them.

I'm for a preference point system BTW. Zoning as well. Also if a preference system is establised, the opportunity to apply for bull only hunt or cow only hunt or both. This could double the dep. lottery income and would keep a hunter who wants to hunt a bull, from useing their preference points on a cow tag. This way they could accumulate preference points for either a bull or cow tag, or both. And though its not feasible with a zoning system, I'd like for hunters who live in the restoration area and are drawn, to have the opportuninty to hunt in their home county or zone. i.e. Me living here amongst some giant elk, I would hate to get drawn for a bull tag in Bell county where I might have to settle for a fork horn. But for now I'd settle for preference points.

They do make nice knife handles however. I made these knives myself. One is out of an old bed rail, the other an old piece of stainless sheet metal. The brass is from an old scoop battery plug and the handles are elk antler. Probably all I'll ever get to do is hunt their sheds.

[mcdenney]

Yes its allowed. Too early yet. Getting harder to get permission for the good spots. Lots of folks looking for them.

I'm for a preference point system BTW. Zoning as well. Also if a preference system is establised, the opportunity to apply for bull only hunt or cow only hunt or both. This could double the dep. lottery income and would keep a hunter who wants to hunt a bull, from useing their preference points on a cow tag. This way they could accumulate preference points for either a bull or cow tag, or both. And though its not feasible with a zoning system, I'd like for hunters who live in the restoration area and are drawn, to have the opportuninty to hunt in their home county or zone. i.e. Me living here amongst some giant elk, I would hate to get drawn for a bull tag in Bell county where I might have to settle for a fork horn. But for now I'd settle for preference points.

They do make nice knife handles however. I made these knives myself. One is out of an old bed rail, the other an old piece of stainless sheet metal. The brass is from an old scoop battery plug and the handles are elk antler. Probably all I'll ever get to do is hunt their sheds.

CM12, where you been man? Been a long time since I noticed you on here. Good to see you are still around. Anyway, I agree with your approach and also this is very similar to some other states who draw tags.

[CM12]

Not much time lately. Have had a rough go of things, now I'm just waiting on spring.

[6.5x55swedish]

I think that the only thing a point system does is make the people who don't get drawn feel better.