What Do You Think?

[BakStraps]

I think KY WMA'S should reconsider the 15" spread limit. A 12" limit would catch all the 2.5 year old bucks and seems to be working pretty dang well at Fort Knox. Face it - Not all bucks get wide, a small portion go straight up and massive. Hard to let a mature 14" buck walk after spending a fortune and driving for hours. Just my opinion, how bout some feedback.

[CSS archer]

On some WMA's a 12 inch spread would not protect many of the 1.5 year old bucks. A 15" spread is easy to judge, either it's at the eartips or not. It's working at Knox because most of the yearlings are under 12".

It is an outside spread, not inside.

When I was a kid you couldn't shoot does, and in some parts of the state you can't witha rifle now, things were much more restrictive statewide then.

[george poe]

i could see why a 15" rule might be a problem.i killed a 170" 12 point with barley more than a 15" spread.it would have been legal but there might also be a minimum number of points on one side rule that could be considered along with the spread limit.this might allow someone to kill a mature buck with a narrow rack that has 8 or more points.what do you think?

[Rob]

I like the simple 15" antler restriction. It's easier to judge from a distance IMHO.

[Valley Station]

With the average experienced hunter, the best and simplest to me is
"wider than the ears when facing you", 15"ish outside.
It's legal, but, really a shame to see 1 1/2 old, 16" wide , small mass buck shot.
What we really need to do, is to educate and encourage others on what it takes to make a quality deer. And to stop those "pin head" poachers from shooting multiple bucks each season!

[predator]

With the average experienced hunter, the best and simplest to me is
"wider than the ears when facing you", 15"ish outside.
It's legal, but, really a shame to see 1 1/2 old, 16" wide , small mass buck shot.
What we really need to do, is to educate and encourage others on what it takes to make a quality deer. And to stop those "pin head" poachers from shooting multiple bucks each season!

Valley-got any ideas how to stop "pin heads" from stealing our deer??

[ceg4uk]

I've heard they're now using the air to search for spotlights in eastern KY, on a limited basis. -- then radioing to a position on the ground.

Is this accurate? and is is working?

[Valley Station]

Flying at night to locate spot lighters , is not limited to eastern Kentucky and is working. However, need more Robo deer at random times thru out the fall and winter.

[predator]

Flying at night to locate spot lighters , is not limited to eastern Kentucky and is working. However, need more Robo deer at random times thru out the fall and winter.

I agree, I would also like to see the fines increased to be more in line with states like Iowa. Liquidated Damages-$1,500.00 each deer, for bucks 150 points or less(B & C)-$2,000.00 to $5,000.00, more than 150 points-$5,000.00 to $10,000.00. Fines like this if the Judges would impose them would stop some of that crap.

[CSS archer]

Unfortunately, more bucks are poached by greedy people who have their wife or other "tag" their extra buck(s) than by spotlighters. I was amazed when this topic came up on this board earlier and many people did not consider this activity poaching..

Regardless if a deer is taken by legal means, not checking it in in your name is poaching, the only way to catch those type is by them getting turned in by someone.

[gwhilikerz]

I like the 15" rule and wouldn't mind seeing it statewide for a couple of years. I think we might have a few more "monsters" then. It works pretty well for places like pennyrile. Poachers are another matter. I don't think that will stop no matter how tuff things are made for them. In some places poaching is almost hereditary and a way of life. Hunters need to report ANY instance of poaching. Massive pain to the wallet might work.

[predator]

Unfortunately, more bucks are poached by greedy people who have their wife or other "tag" their extra buck(s) than by spotlighters. I was amazed when this topic came up on this board earlier and many people did not consider this activity poaching..

Regardless if a deer is taken by legal means, not checking it in in your name is poaching, the only way to catch those type is by them getting turned in by someone.

CSS- some of your peers have told me the same thing. They recommended that in addition to the Tele-check that adhesive tags should be used. Landowners should also be required to carry tags, even though they would be free of charge, this would help some on those "Sandy Bucks" being killed.
You can't stop it completely but surely this would help.

[Multidigits]

CSS- some of your peers have told me the same thing. They recommended that in addition to the Tele-check that adhesive tags should be used. Landowners should also be required to carry tags, even though they would be free of charge, this would help some on those "Sandy Bucks" being killed.
You can't stop it completely but surely this would help.


You got me curious on that one -- How is a tag going to stop a buck from being poached? Explain how it would help and what's different than the present system?

[predator]

You got me curious on that one -- How is a tag going to stop a buck from being poached? Explain how it would help and what's different than the present system?

Multi-Sadam just hung!! Amen.
This is a different thread, be cool.
A tag is not going to stop a buck from being poached, but it would help the COs in catching those who poach. Example, some slaughter plants do not require tele-check number in order to process, if tag where required, CO could check more easily. Also some taxidermist would be taken out of the same situation. Too many people have multiple license in their pocket(sportsman, bonus, ect.), can mark one or the other in case they get checked till they get deer home and cut up. If have adhesive tag their would be no question. Also landowners would have to have one in possession while hunting. If they are going to kill a buck and check it in wife's name,(Sandy Buck), at least they would have to go to town and get another tag. I didn't say replace tele-check, just try to improve it.

[Multidigits]

Multi-Sadam just hung!! Amen.
This is a different thread, be cool.
A tag is not going to stop a buck from being poached, but it would help the COs in catching those who poach. Example, some slaughter plants do not require tele-check number in order to process, if tag where required, CO could check more easily. Also some taxidermist would be taken out of the same situation. Too many people have multiple license in their pocket(sportsman, bonus, ect.), can mark one or the other in case they get checked till they get deer home and cut up. If have adhesive tag their would be no question. Also landowners would have to have one in possession while hunting. If they are going to kill a buck and check it in wife's name,(Sandy Buck), at least they would have to go to town and get another tag. I didn't say replace tele-check, just try to improve it.


I disagree somewhat. I know that Webb's wants a number, and the taxidermist that I use wants a number. Now I know you could make one up, but it's a sure give away if the CO does a spot check of what's there. As for landowners, they have to be landowners or they are busted if checked. A paper tag won't change that.

The only advantage that I see is that it would ID a deer if it leaves your possession, and your supposed to tag them anyway with a tag you make.

[predator]

I disagree somewhat. I know that Webb's wants a number, and the taxidermist that I use wants a number. Now I know you could make one up, but it's a sure give away if the CO does a spot check of what's there. As for landowners, they have to be landowners or they are busted if checked. A paper tag won't change that.

The only advantage that I see is that it would ID a deer if it leaves your possession, and your supposed to tag them anyway with a tag you make.

What would you suggest, if any, to improve the tele-check system? Seems to be some debate on the numbers. Got any ideas to help smooth things out?

[Multidigits]

It is what it is. I think it works fine everytime I use it? There's only one thing that will make poachers quit poaching and that is to help get them caught.

[Luckybuck]

I would like to see KY use metal tags that clip on and must be used at the kill site. It would cut down on a good bit of illegal activities.

As for 15 inch spread, Ithink it is good to protect the young bucks but there are a few rare exceptions that end up being bruisers that have a narrow, but massive rack.

[gwhilikerz]

I would like to see KY use metal tags that clip on and must be used at the kill site. It would cut down on a good bit of illegal activities.

As for 15 inch spread, Ithink it is good to protect the young bucks but there are a few rare exceptions that end up being bruisers that have a narrow, but massive rack.
KY used to have metal tags. In fact I think I argued once on here to bring them back. But I changed my mind. When tags were in use it was a simple matter for a poacher to put the tag on without locking it. Then if a CO came around the tag would be locked. If not, it would be used again. Besides with our limits today the kdfwr would have to use all those surplus funds to buy enough tags.:)

[predator]

I would like to see KY use metal tags that clip on and must be used at the kill site. It would cut down on a good bit of illegal activities.

As for 15 inch spread, Ithink it is good to protect the young bucks but there are a few rare exceptions that end up being bruisers that have a narrow, but massive rack.

KY used to have metal tags. In fact I think I argued once on here to bring them back. But I changed my mind. When tags were in use it was a simple matter for a poacher to put the tag on without locking it. Then if a CO came around the tag would be locked. If not, it would be used again. Besides with our limits today the kdfwr would have to use all those surplus funds to buy enough tags.:)

Thats the reason we were leaning toward the adhesive tags.

[CSS archer]

CSS- some of your peers have told me the same thing. They recommended that in addition to the Tele-check that adhesive tags should be used. Landowners should also be required to carry tags, even though they would be free of charge, this would help some on those "Sandy Bucks" being killed.
You can't stop it completely but surely this would help.

The only improvement I'd like to see in telechek is an antler point entry. You enter male ----> visible antlers, yes or no----->yes----> enter number of points equal or greater than one inch.....

Then the confirmation number could be more easily "tied" to a rack at a taxidermist's shop or wherever.

The "tag" is a harvest log properly completed, if the animal is not with you a paper tag must be placed on it. Landowners have to do it also.

All processors and taxidermists require a confirmation number, if they don't they are operating illegally.

[Fat Tony]

The only improvement I'd like to see in telechek is an antler point entry. You enter male ----> visible antlers, yes or no----->yes----> enter number of points equal or greater than one inch.....

Then the confirmation number could be more easily "tied" to a rack at a taxidermist's shop or wherever.

The "tag" is a harvest log properly completed, if the animal is not with you a paper tag must be placed on it. Landowners have to do it also.

All processors and taxidermists require a confirmation number, if they don't they are operating illegally.

I'd be all for an updated version of telecheck. The current version stinks. And the log is not effective as a means of ensuring compliance. I've gone into the reasons for this in enough other threads that I won't do it here.

If you could add the points in conjunction with a tag that could only be used once (ie some form of locking or adhesive tag that is tough to manipulate) that you mandated had to be put on the carcass before it is moved I would be much more open minded to telecheck.

Make Telecheck a weapon against poaching and illegal activity, not a shield from enforcement.

[ecmbowhunter]

What does that have to do with telecheck? Poachers don't really give a hoot what kind of tagging or checking requirements we have.

[Suthrn*]

This is a toughy... I like the 15"rule for sure. As far as tagging it would be hard to control for sure. I think the best means of protecting against illegally tagged animals is us even if it means turning in someone you know. I know thats hard to swallow but thats my opinion.

[Hoosier5]

The private area, I hunt Deer in Ky; we don't take any Bucks with a spread less than 15" Infact if we happen to shoot a Button Buck or Spike we have a $100 fine which is used to buy seed for food plots. I passed up a nice 6-pointer this past season, because the antler spread was < 15" spread. Rule of thumb if the antlers don't go beyond their ears then it's too small. <Let it Walk>:)

[dead eye]

Really That is where the call in is at fault . Many of the deer taged for some one else is due to the call in. If they would switch back to the actual check station check ins that won't happen as much. I know it's a bigger pain but it would help !!!
dead eye

[Suthrn*]

Really That is where the call in is at fault . Many of the deer taged for some one else is due to the call in. If they would switch back to the actual check station check ins that won't happen as much. I know it's a bigger pain but it would help !!!
dead eye

Agreed!!! How much trouble is it really anyways? Ok so you might have to drive a bit further but whats an extra 20 bucks in gas to a guy that if hes hunting hes usually and i stress usually spending WAY more on his equipment than the deer meat is actually worth. Why do we do this?? Love of the sport, love of the outdoors and a love for respecting the animals and the means of taking while at the same time preserving their future. JMO

[Fat Tony]

Agreed!!! How much trouble is it really anyways? Ok so you might have to drive a bit further but whats an extra 20 bucks in gas to a guy that if hes hunting hes usually and i stress usually spending WAY more on his equipment than the deer meat is actually worth. Why do we do this?? Love of the sport, love of the outdoors and a love for respecting the animals and the means of taking while at the same time preserving their future. JMO

The allure of convenience is just too great to overcome for many. Add to that what I believe to be the faulty premeise that anyone who cheats telecheck would cheat any system and that the numbers of cheaters is the same in both systems and you get the perspective of those who argue for telecheck.

I respect that opinion. At one time I held it, too. I don't anymore.

[bcdh1]

i could see why a 15" rule might be a problem.i killed a 170" 12 point with barley more than a 15" spread.it would have been legal but there might also be a minimum number of points on one side rule that could be considered along with the spread limit.this might allow someone to kill a mature buck with a narrow rack that has 8 or more points.what do you think?

I have seen 1/2 year old deer with 10 points on it before. Also i had a buddy this past year kill a 1/2 year old deer with a "14 outside spread. I think what they are doig is workig great. People are going to have to hunt harder to find these old bucks and if you don't like hunting a WMA with these restrictios, go to somewhere that does ot have them. There are plenty that don't have a size limit.

[Suthrn*]

I have seen 1/2 year old deer with 10 points on it before. Also i had a buddy this past year kill a 1/2 year old deer with a "14 outside spread. I think what they are doig is workig great. People are going to have to hunt harder to find these old bucks and if you don't like hunting a WMA with these restrictios, go to somewhere that does ot have them. There are plenty that don't have a size limit.

But.... Thats not really the common 1/2 year old. Think what were after here is a general overall way to accomplish seeing more buck in higher age classes. I beleive a spread limit would definately make a huge difference overall. Im sure a few will slip through the cracks but theres not really a better system without a dentist on hand and a set of Swarovsky binos.

[Valley Station]

Telechek is a good tool that could me modified to collect additional information.
Number of points. Outside spread.Morning/evening. Does lactating.

Would like to see tag required to transport. The little six-pointer in the back of a pickup truck without a tag, gets a phone call!
Allows the public to provide some eyes.

[CSS archer]

I have seen 1/2 year old deer with 10 points on it before. Also i had a buddy this past year kill a 1/2 year old deer with a "14 outside spread. I think what they are doig is workig great. People are going to have to hunt harder to find these old bucks and if you don't like hunting a WMA with these restrictios, go to somewhere that does ot have them. There are plenty that don't have a size limit.


You mean 1 1/2 year old, a 1/2 year old is a fawn.

I've seen numerous 10 point 1 1/2 year old bucks and even a 12 point 1.5 year old. I've seen several with 14" outside spreads. Farm country deer, not woodland deer.

The bottom line is satewide a one buck limit protects many deer, if we could only stop the "double dippers" that get a tag for their wife, cousin Sally, etc. Those poachers are stealing from all of us. If you know someone that does that and you don't report them, you are as much a part of the problem.

[Fat Tony]

The bottom line is satewide a one buck limit protects many deer, if we could only stop the "double dippers" that get a tag for their wife, cousin Sally, etc. Those poachers are stealing from all of us. If you know someone that does that and you don't report them, you are as much a part of the problem.

Takes excellent photos and he is smart to boot. ;)

Totally agree. That's why I'm all for any system that makes this harder and more inconvenient for these dirt bags than easier. Problem is, many folks value an easier check in for themselves over any system that may be more of a hassle, yet makes the folks who operate in the grey area work harder to beat the system.

Once again, the "poachers" will poach no matter what. What do they care? They shoot deer all year long. Its the multitude of guys who try to work within the system to get that extra buck, out of zone doe, etc that has me pulling my hair out over the current version of telecheck.

[predator]

Telechek is a good tool that could me modified to collect additional information.
Number of points. Outside spread.Morning/evening. Does lactating.

Would like to see tag required to transport. The little six-pointer in the back of a pickup truck without a tag, gets a phone call!
Allows the public to provide some eyes.

You make a very good point. I would like to see a physical tag required in addition to tele-check. Requiring a tag on the animal before it is MOVED would help the public police the poaching problem. As it is now, I am not going to ask someone to see were they marked their tag or their tele-check number, besides they will always say I'm getting ready to call it in, but if I see a deer without a tag, someone gets a phone call!! It may not keep a deer from getting poached, but it will certainly help to catch the poachers.

[The Beagler]

There are always going to be exceptions. A 15" minimum seems to help grow bigger bucks.

[slickhead slayer]

You make a very good point. I would like to see a physical tag required in addition to tele-check. Requiring a tag on the animal before it is MOVED would help the public police the poaching problem. As it is now, I am not going to ask someone to see were they marked their tag or their tele-check number, besides they will always say I'm getting ready to call it in, but if I see a deer without a tag, someone gets a phone call!! It may not keep a deer from getting poached, but it will certainly help to catch the poachers.

You have to tag deer before you move them now.

[WBBP]

Per Hunting Guide:

Placing a carcass tag on harvested deer, elk, turkey, bobcat or otter is only required when the carcass leaves the possession of the hunter who harvested the animal.

K

[littleindian]

Minimum are nice on what you can control. They can't control double dippers, poachers, and other law breakers now. It would be just another penalty on law abiding hunters. On our property we use the B&C method. We are only wanting to take anything over 140 B&C gross with a gun and 125 net P&Y. If we don't believe it will net 125 we won't shoot. This allows boarder line animals walk. The only exceptions if we see an old deer with a small rack. You can tell by the body. Yes, you have to be able to field judge an animal in order for this to work. Most hunters can't.

[Suthrn*]

Originally posted by CSS...The bottom line is satewide a one buck limit protects many deer, if we could only stop the "double dippers" that get a tag for their wife, cousin Sally, etc. Those poachers are stealing from all of us. If you know someone that does that and you don't report them, you are as much a part of the problem.

Couldnt have said that any better! Even if its your long time hunting buddy i think its everyones duty to do whats right. Hopefully in the case of a freind though your persuasion and frown upon illegal activities will have an influence on his actions if you decide that turning him in is just going way too far.

[nwest]

I would love to see teh changes tot hte teltecheck. I agree that the "Double Dippers are cheating us all. But I do not agree with a antler restriction or spread limit because it send the wrong message. I think that education is the key. We need to teach everyone the advantages of lettign the little deer go. The advantages of a mature herd is much greater than antler size.