View Full Version : Gas prices up, democrats fault?
chadwimc
11-09-2006, 04:46 AM
Gas prices around Cincinnati are up .25 cent since the election. Is it the democrats fault?:rolleyes:
john4
11-09-2006, 05:30 AM
The election is over silly:D
Gas stations are raising their prices to cover upcoming higher taxes and higher minimum wages for their employees. It has NOTHING to do with the price of oil, it's all a scam run by the democrats. I wonder if Pelosi comes from an oil family?:D
kevhunter
11-09-2006, 06:15 AM
Shs is an oil man
Louhunter
11-09-2006, 07:09 AM
If any of guys would read the paper the prices have risen this week because of the release of a report that indicated that the US inventory of oil is lower than expected. It has nothing to do with who is in office.
B.G.O. of Kentucky
11-09-2006, 07:18 AM
If any of guys would read the paper the prices have risen this week because of the release of a report that indicated that the US inventory of oil is lower than expected. It has nothing to do with who is in office.
I have read the papers, but I also have been informed that our gas prices are set 6 months in advance, or at least that was the Oil mens story last I checked.
Oh, and it's not DEMs, repubs, it is bipartisan greed.
daking
11-09-2006, 07:48 AM
Folks, the price of gasoline (or any other commodity for that matter) is set by market forces. Almost all commodities are bought and sold on a daily basis and the price paid is based on what the commodity traders believe the future will bring. These markets hate uncertainty as much as I hate shooting deer in pens. The elections create some uncertainty because no one knows what the new regime will bring.
So yeah, in an indirect way, the democrats are responsible for the rise in oil prices. That's as natural as water running downhill. Their election created some uncertainty for the future. It would have in any event. That rise is short-term. It will either go up or down depending on how the new congress behaves.
If they are successful in destabilizing the middle east by diminishing our presence, they do raise taxes, they do raise the minimum wage, they do follow their path of restrictive environmental laws that will hamstring the production of domestic energy, then they will have a very negative impact on the cost of gasoline once they find their offices and seats. The markets will react negatively to the things that the democrats ran on. They told us that they'd do the things that will raise the price of oil and we voted them in (well somebody did). When the prices rise, you'll know why. They told you they were going to do the things that will destablize the markets and cause rising prices of virtually every commodity.
grouser68
11-09-2006, 07:59 AM
So yeah, in an indirect way, the democrats are responsible for the rise in oil prices. That's as natural as water running downhill. Their election created some uncertainty for the future. It would have in any event. That rise is short-term. It will either go up or down depending on how the new congress behaves.
If they are successful in destabilizing the middle east by diminishing our presence, they do raise taxes, they do raise the minimum wage, they do follow their path of restrictive environmental laws that will hamstring the production of domestic energy, then they will have a very negative impact on the cost of gasoline once they find their offices and seats. The markets will react negatively to the things that the democrats ran on. They told us that they'd do the things that will raise the price of oil and we voted them in (well somebody did). When the prices rise, you'll know why. They told you they were going to do the things that will destablize the markets
The biggest news yesterday was Dem's win! Rummy out!
How do you explain the new record Dow? I am sure you would not agree that it was because of a newly found confidence in America and the major changes made overnight by elections! Or would you?
daking
11-09-2006, 08:17 AM
No, Grouser, as predicted by most analysts, the Dow would rise if the dems got in. The reason that the analysts gave is that there would be gridlock in Washington. No new taxes would get passed. No minimum wage hike. In short, when Washington is not screwing with the market, it does just fine. The capture of both houses was not foreseen. That will change things for the worse.
Watch the retreat about the first of the year when Pelosi tries to implement her first hundred hours. Investigations of Halliburton? Puts a chill on every company because they might be next. Higher minimum wage? A damper on the economy. Tax fairness? The only tax fairness a Democrat ever saw was to take more of the people's money. Another damper on the economy. Cut funding for Iraq? Destabilization of the middle east, a damper on the economy. The oil markets were the first to react. We'll see where the Dow is when the the Dems have had three months to work their economic magic. Can we say Jimmy Carter?
grouser68
11-09-2006, 08:31 AM
Daking, I have avoided posting the past 3-4 days because of just this type of arguement.The election is over, the AMERICAN PEOPLE have made their choice.(majority rules)
Already you are predicting doom and gloom for us all withen the first 3 months of the dem's taking over.You are predicting something 5 months out.Very negative! When the repubs took over my philoshy was.....ok, now lets see what they DO! Most are a bit more positive.
In watching and listening to the news the past few days......and yes......Fox too, I found that most repubs in America DO NOT feel the way you and most of the repubs on this site feel.IMHO, I feel that ultra conservatives may make up maybe 1% of the republican party. The proof of that came Tuesday!
daking
11-09-2006, 08:52 AM
Grouser, I am not selling doom and gloom. I explained how markets work and what forces affect them. Then I superimposed what the democrats SAID they were going to do. I didn't create the laws of economics that make the market work, nor did I write the democrat platform. I merely put the two side by side. I'd rather see a growing economy, low energy prices and the lot, but if the democrats do exactly what they say they are going to do, we know exactly how the markets are going to react. One would hope that they would come to their senses, but that's a lot to ask.
Grouser, I suspect that you don't challenge the law of gravity. Dropped things fall. Well, the economy works with that same certainty of action-reaction. The Dems have told what action they intend to take. Don't be surprised when you get the reaction that any economist could predict.
PhilpotHunter
11-09-2006, 09:05 AM
Investigations of Halliburton? Puts a chill on every company because they might be next.?
So even if the companies are guilty we should just let them get away with it so the economy does ok? If Halliburton has nothing to hide why are you worried about it?
Higher minimum wage??
Its about freakin time
Tax fairness? The only tax fairness a Democrat ever saw was to take more of the people's money. Another damper on the economy.?
So the dems wanting to take out some tax breaks for big business and big oil isn't fair? Sorry, we disagree on that one. Thankfully, so does the majority of America
Cut funding for Iraq? Destabilization of the middle east, a damper on the economy.
From what I can tell, they haven't said they were going to cut funding for Iraq. Now, Fox news and Rush have said they were going to cut funding for Iraq, but good ole Nancy herself said that wasn't an option.
daking
11-09-2006, 09:33 AM
So even if the companies are guilty we should just let them get away with it so the economy does ok? If Halliburton has nothing to hide why are you worried about it?
Fill in the name of any other American company; Ford, Microsoft, Pepsico. If they think Halliburton did something bad, refer it to the justice department who has rules to follow that Congress doesn't. Besides, I didn't say whether or not they should give Halliburton an anal probe. I just said that doing so would have a chilling effect on the market. Like it or not, it's a fact. Besides, if they'll do it to Halliburton, what's to stop them from going after any company that isn't doing what the Dems want or doesn't give them money or back their programs?
Higher minimum wage?
Its about freakin time
Now tell me, who actually works for minimum wage? The democrats are all for amnesty and open borders. They cite a lack of American workers to do some jobs. You can be damn sure that employers raised their starting salary up quite a ways over minimum before they would take the chance on using illegals and go through the hassle of a language barrier. The minimum wage is de-facto somewhere around seven bucks. Without going into a lot of economic theory, price is the rationing function. McDonalds, Swifty Oil, Wal-Mart and the local dry cleaners cannot hire anyone for minimum wage. The minimum wage is set by the market place.
All an increased minimum wage does is to set a percentage of wage increase that the unions will demand. Increase minimum wage by $1.03 to $6.18 and you've increased it 20 %. Gives unions a pretty good bargaining tool, eh?
So the dems wanting to take out some tax breaks for big business and big oil isn't fair? Sorry, we disagree on that one. Thankfully, so does the majority of America
No, they want to raise the marginal tax rate and reinstate the death tax. Not me saying it. Them saying it. 50% of the people in the USA pay 98% of the taxes. That means as a taxpayer, you and I are carrying a freeloader on our backs. If tax relief is a good thing, (and any economist will tell you it is), then you gotta give the relief to those paying the taxes. Before piling on businesses, remember, they never ever pay tax. The tax that they pay is figured into the price of the item you buy from them. Corporate profit taxes go up, so does the price of the thing they sell. You want to pay more tax? There's a voluntary program for that in the IRS code.
From what I can tell, they haven't said they were going to cut funding for Iraq. Now, Fox news and Rush have said they were going to cut funding for Iraq, but good ole Nancy herself said that wasn't an option.
The only practical way that the dems have to end the war is to cut funding. They've already said that they will reconfigure the war, which is to say, get out of it. When a relatively stable middle east destabilizes and when Israel begins to defend itself with the vigor they should, the middle east will be unstable, and that will cause the price of oil to rise.
Don't take my word for it. Go to the nearest university, seek out one of their professors with a PhD in economics. Pose these questions to him or her. See what they say.
gwhilikerz
11-09-2006, 09:54 AM
Gas prices are going up because the new speaker of the house said there would be hearings to investigate gouging by oil companies. Guess they have to get one more jab:D
killinmammals
11-09-2006, 01:39 PM
I wonder if things get screwed up, how will Bush's little bro do in 08?
daking
11-09-2006, 01:45 PM
I wouldn't count on a Bush hat trick just yet. I'd look at Newt or Rudy Guiliani next go-round.
6.5x55swedish
11-09-2006, 04:33 PM
Holiday weekend coming up and than Thanksgiving week right after! They have to sneak those prices up to catch all the people traveling.
grouser68
11-09-2006, 04:40 PM
Holiday weekend coming up and than Thanksgiving week right after! They have to sneak those prices up to catch all the people traveling.
Thats probably very true! Every long holiday weekend seems to bring out the higher gas prices!
ukyager
11-09-2006, 05:25 PM
Like the Middle East has ever been "stable".........
Duster
11-09-2006, 05:31 PM
You guys crack me up...Don't worry...Be happy.. If the election had gone the other way gas prices might have gone up $1.....:D
grouser68
11-09-2006, 05:35 PM
You guys crack me up...Don't worry...Be happy.. If the election had gone the other way gas prices might have gone up $1.....:D
Ditto!:D :D :D ;)
Wildcat
11-09-2006, 06:03 PM
Daking,
Good posts. I've been at the farm most of the day and just now read this thread. Funny thing I said almost the same thing you did here on another forum last night. I guess people that use the market and know how it all works makes a good living from it and the ones that play the market and not understand it go broke fast never understanding why or how it happened.
Something else about minimum wage. The law sets minimum wage and every once in a while they are raised. A lot of people think that they will also get a raise but not if they already make more than the new minimum wage, the law does not cover them. Say someone makes 1 cent above the new minimum wage, he's out of luck getting any raise at all. It's 100% up to their boss if he wants to raise their wages. Most bosses will raise but not all. Once he has to give his minimum wage people a higher pay and at the same time is forced to pay higher cooperate taxes as well as his own higher personal taxes he will be hard pressed to find more money to give his other people a raise. There is only two ways he can cover everything and everybody, raise prices or lay off people and use their paychecks to pay others or both.
Feedman
11-09-2006, 06:30 PM
Well, I think the following will happen.
1. Taxes will be raised.
2 Economy will slow down.
3. Inflation will go up.
4. Recession will start.
5. Democrats will blame the Republicans.
You will start to hear the word "filibuster", not cooperating, partisan politics and every other excuse in the world.
It is not going to be pretty the next 2 yrs and even worse in there is a Democrate elected president.
grouser68
11-09-2006, 06:37 PM
Daking,
Good posts. I've been at the farm most of the day and just now read this thread. Funny thing I said almost the same thing you did here on another forum last night. I guess people that use the market and know how it all works makes a good living from it and the ones that play the market and not understand it go broke fast never understanding why or how it happened.
Something else about minimum wage. The law sets minimum wage and every once in a while they are raised. A lot of people think that they will also get a raise but not if they already make more than the new minimum wage, the law does not cover them. Say someone makes 1 cent above the new minimum wage, he's out of luck getting any raise at all. It's 100% up to their boss if he wants to raise their wages. Most bosses will raise but not all. Once he has to give his minimum wage people a higher pay and at the same time is forced to pay higher cooperate taxes as well as his own higher personal taxes he will be hard pressed to find more money to give his other people a raise. There is only two ways he can cover everything and everybody, raise prices or lay off people and use their paychecks to pay others or both.
Those poor bosses! We should try to get them on Corporate Welfare!
I think a higher minimum wage would help alot of college kids working 2 and 3 jobs to make it.Not to mention all the parents working for minimum wage that no one wants to see draw welfare and disability.
Theres the difference, some are for big business, some are for ALL!
grouser68
11-09-2006, 06:42 PM
Well, I think the following will happen.
1. Taxes will be raised.
2 Economy will slow down.
3. Inflation will go up.
4. Recession will start.
5. Democrats will blame the Republicans.
You will start to hear the word "filibuster", not cooperating, partisan politics and every other excuse in the world.
It is not going to be pretty the next 2 yrs and even worse in there is a Democrate elected president.
Feedman, the word "think" in your post is the keyword.I "think" your wrong!
6.5x55swedish
11-09-2006, 06:48 PM
Maybe the Republicans threw the election on purpose so they would not get blamed for the up and coming housing bust:eek:
Feedman
11-09-2006, 07:38 PM
Feedman, the word "think" in your post is the keyword.I "think" your wrong!
You have your opinion and I have mine!!!
Duster
11-09-2006, 07:42 PM
You guys do all of us a favor and don't go jumping off a bridge or something.... Everyone will miss you here....:D
luckyone
11-09-2006, 07:54 PM
Raising the min wage will help kids working at Mc Donalds and it will put us factory workers closer to the poverty level because we will not get a increasse in our wage
Gas goes up and market goes down THE Dems win They better get there act together or it wont last long.....
daking
11-09-2006, 09:33 PM
Like I said, why don't you take what I've predicted and run it by an economist. This isn't like handicapping horses. It's like knowing that 2+2=4. Before you dismiss it out of hand based on your limited knowledge, ask a pro. You might be suprised.
grouser68
11-09-2006, 10:30 PM
Grouser, I suspect that you don't challenge the law of gravity.
Before you dismiss it out of hand based on your limited knowledge,
More than just a little off post here.Daking, I find you a very abusive person lacking social skills.You appear to be one of the more intelligent individuals on this site.If used correctly your intelligence could bring great insight to any issue.
Two of the three posts you directed at me contained not so subtle remarks impuning my intelligence!Now in the way you do this to people I can't blame the mods for not calling you on it,I will hand it to you, your a slick one.But, I am calling you on it!Never again with absolutely no knowledge of me......spew your personal attacks on me!I care less than you know of what you think of me, so I really don't care to hear your opinions, thoughts, or what you think of my limited knowledge.
I can fully admit that I am not the smartest page in the book, but I don't care to hear about it, and most likely just to make you feel better about yourself!
I try to keep these ventings confined to pm's,but you need to know that your time of degrading people on a public forum is about to come to an end!With me anyway!
I can see why some would put you on ignore, I however will not!
You wanna know the really sad thing? I am all for you speaking out against your organization. I respected your views, and you!
I know, you will write something eloquent and colorful, and probably try to make me look foolish! I don't care! Just try not to interject your opinions of something you know absolutely nothing about! And when it comes to me.....you know nothing!
Sorry guys, now on with the thread about the higher gas prices!
'
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maxcam
11-09-2006, 10:49 PM
Those poor bosses! We should try to get them on Corporate Welfare!
I think a higher minimum wage would help alot of college kids working 2 and 3 jobs to make it.Not to mention all the parents working for minimum wage that no one wants to see draw welfare and disability.
Theres the difference, some are for big business, some are for ALL!
Grouser, for the most part I can respect your positions and opinions even though on political issues we dont see eye to eye.....
I will further state that I can agree that guys like Jack Welch dont deserve the multi million dollar contract they get for running a company like GE....
Having said that I want you to think about this......90% of the workforce in this country is employed by small businessmen......Being one myself I can tell you that I earn every dollar I make......An increase in minimum wage is more than just a few cents added to the hourly wage of a worker.....It causes and increase in social security taxes that are paid by the employer. The cost of workmens compensation also increases.
If an employee gets a dollar increase in wage then you can add an additional 10% in taxes and insurance to that dollar that the employer has to pay....This increase is ultimately passed on to the consumer and we then see inflation......With the volitile situation we are seeing in steel, petroleum, paper, plastic, and just about every other raw material that I am aware of in industry, a minimum wage increase could be just what the doctor ordered to cause run away inflation.......
My business struggles every month to hold down production costs so that I dont have to increase my prices. Why, because there is an ever increasing supply being imported into this country every month......
So to say that the fat cats could afford it you may be right, but the majority of employers simply cannot......
maxcam
11-09-2006, 10:54 PM
I wouldn't count on a Bush hat trick just yet. I'd look at Newt or Rudy Guiliani next go-round.\
I would toss a dollar or two in the hat to see Newt run......That man is truly a statesmen!
grouser68
11-09-2006, 11:12 PM
Grouser, for the most part I can respect your positions and opinions even though on political issues we dont see eye to eye.....
I will further state that I can agree that guys like Jack Welch dont deserve the multi million dollar contract they get for running a company like GE....
Having said that I want you to think about this......90% of the workforce in this country is employed by small businessmen......Being one myself I can tell you that I earn every dollar I make......An increase in minimum wage is more than just a few cents added to the hourly wage of a worker.....It causes and increase in social security taxes that are paid by the employer. The cost of workmens compensation also increases.
If an employee gets a dollar increase in wage then you can add an additional 10% in taxes and insurance to that dollar that the employer has to pay....This increase is ultimately passed on to the consumer and we then see inflation......With the volitile situation we are seeing in steel, petroleum, paper, plastic, and just about every other raw material that I am aware of in industry, a minimum wage increase could be just what the doctor ordered to cause run away inflation.......
My business struggles every month to hold down production costs so that I dont have to increase my prices. Why, because there is an ever increasing supply being imported into this country every month......
So to say that the fat cats could afford it you may be right, but the majority of employers simply cannot......
I can fully understand where your coming from Maxcam! I was a small business owner, sold out in 2001. Does the minimum wage really mean that much in my area? No! I don't know anyone that would work for such low wages.At times now when we get really busy we have hired up to 5 people to help. At $10. per hour! While I owned my business, and even now, the help works 8 hours, and I work 14.
I am all for the small businessman, they need every break they can get to scrape by. I signed the checks going out for workmans comp, taxs, ect.I too could not believe how much goes out each month for employee's.
My business did very well.It worked me to the point that the doc's said to sell!
All that said,people earning minimum wage at present are living below the poverty level.People love to point out all the people on what I call the "draw".It would really behoove those making minimum wage to just go get on some govt. program, they would make more!One point I would make is, by giving minimumwage earners a raise, it's probably keeping them off the "draw".
I know you must stay competitive with your pricing,and keeping overhead down to a minimum.I always hated when I had to up on prices also, but sometimes your left without a choice.
maxcam
11-09-2006, 11:17 PM
I can tell you that if would lead to someone losing a job before I could afford to do any thing else......
Wildcat
11-10-2006, 05:33 AM
Guess what? You raise the minimum wage and you also raise the poverty level. Think about it. The miminum wage is the LOWEST someone can legally make. Go look at the US govt stats, every time they raised the minimum wage 6 months later they raised the poverty level.
Like it or not but the only way out is to find a better paying job or start your own business, it's always been that way always will.
More than just a little off post here.Daking, I find you a very abusive person lacking social skills.You appear to be one of the more intelligent individuals on this site.If used correctly your intelligence could bring great insight to any issue.
I think Daking is obviously very intelligent. I wonder what you mean by "used correctly"? Does that mean to share the same opinion as you? I feel that if he did you would not have any problem with him at all.
Grouser, with all do respect I think you are without a doubt the MOST partisan person on this forum. When I read your post that condemn others for have a different view I just can't help but think of the old adage-"That's the pot calling the kettle black". It really doesn't matter how you sugarcoat it, you guys are saying the same things to each other.
To me, I think these threads are getting old. It's more than obvious where everyone stands. It's obvious to me that no matter what the dems do or might do that you will put a positive spin on it and vice versa for Republicans. I think you'd try to put a positive light on Pelosi if she was caught banging bin laden!:D It's the same here with a few republicans. At any rate, these threads will never get anywhere so long as the people involved in them are so narrow minded and blindly loyal, that goes both ways.
IMO, a good political argument is based on facts and not personal opinions and blind partisanship. These are FAR from being good political arguments. I have my own views but I think I would be better off to share them with my dog, or even a wall then I would be to post them on here and expect everyone to agree- even if I only dealt in facts.
Multidigits
11-10-2006, 06:03 AM
I can fully understand where your coming from Maxcam! I was a small business owner, sold out in 2001. Does the minimum wage really mean that much in my area? No! I don't know anyone that would work for such low wages.At times now when we get really busy we have hired up to 5 people to help. At $10. per hour! While I owned my business, and even now, the help works 8 hours, and I work 14.
I am all for the small businessman, they need every break they can get to scrape by. I signed the checks going out for workmans comp, taxs, ect.I too could not believe how much goes out each month for employee's.
My business did very well.It worked me to the point that the doc's said to sell!
All that said,people earning minimum wage at present are living below the poverty level.People love to point out all the people on what I call the "draw".It would really behoove those making minimum wage to just go get on some govt. program, they would make more!One point I would make is, by giving minimumwage earners a raise, it's probably keeping them off the "draw".
I know you must stay competitive with your pricing,and keeping overhead down to a minimum.I always hated when I had to up on prices also, but sometimes your left without a choice.
Why work for minimum wage when you can get a check for not working......thanks for posting what you wanted me to post last week. Case closed!!!!
grouser68
11-10-2006, 06:05 AM
I think Daking is obviously very intelligent. I wonder what you mean by "used correctly"? Does that mean to share the same opinion as you? I feel that if he did you would not have any problem with him at all.
Grouser, with all do respect I think you are without a doubt the MOST partisan person on this forum. When I read your post that condemn others for have a different view I just can't help but think of the old adage-"That's the pot calling the kettle black". It really doesn't matter how you sugarcoat it, you guys are saying the same things to each other.
To me, I think these threads are getting old. It's more than obvious where everyone stands. It's obvious to me that no matter what the dems do or might do that you will put a positive spin on it and vice versa for Republicans. I think you'd try to put a positive light on Pelosi if she was caught banging bin laden!:D It's the same here with a few republicans. At any rate, these threads will never get anywhere so long as the people involved in them are so narrow minded and blindly loyal, that goes both ways.
IMO, a good political argument is based on facts and not personal opinions and blind partisanship. These are FAR from being good political arguments. I have my own views but I think I would be better off to share them with my dog, or even a wall then I would be to post them on here and expect everyone to agree- even if I only dealt in facts.
Art, seriously.........I read the first 3 lines of your post, and no more. When you actually have a dog in this fight then you can let him off the leash! As it stands, you don't!Sorry buddy!
Wildcat
11-10-2006, 06:07 AM
No, Grouser, as predicted by most analysts, the Dow would rise if the dems got in. The reason that the analysts gave is that there would be gridlock in Washington. No new taxes would get passed. No minimum wage hike. In short, when Washington is not screwing with the market, it does just fine. The capture of both houses was not foreseen. That will change things for the worse.
Watch the retreat about the first of the year when Pelosi tries to implement her first hundred hours. Investigations of Halliburton? Puts a chill on every company because they might be next. Higher minimum wage? A damper on the economy. Tax fairness? The only tax fairness a Democrat ever saw was to take more of the people's money. Another damper on the economy. Cut funding for Iraq? Destabilization of the middle east, a damper on the economy. The oil markets were the first to react. We'll see where the Dow is when the the Dems have had three months to work their economic magic. Can we say Jimmy Carter?
Daking,
Remember on another post I said I posted almost the same thing on another forum the same day you posted this and I didn't come on here that day? Well I found it and will post it here. You told it much better than I did.
Like Jeff pointed out the market had been setting record highs for months but you all tried to pass that off and are now trying to give the democrats credit. LOL!! The democrats don't take over until Jan and the market is still riding the wave of the past 12 years of republican controled Congress.
Historical the markets do OK during the democrat Congress except for the last 25 years that the democrats controled Congress. Durning that time the United States fell under the worst times since the Great Depression, at that time democrats controled both Houses and the White House with Carter in office. Democrats only controled Congress the first two years of Clinton term.
Going by market history we will not know for sure which the market will go until around May-August 2007, then we'll know what kind of market we will have the next two years.
Don't take my word for it, look it up yourself.
Art, seriously.........I read the first 3 lines of your post, and no more. When you actually have a dog in this fight then you can let him off the leash! As it stands, you don't!Sorry buddy!
You should have read on. I don't want to put my dogs into a fight that has no winner, or better yet with someone who would NEVER admit defeat no matter the outcome.
grouser68
11-10-2006, 06:20 AM
You should have read on. I don't want to put my dogs into a fight that has no winner, or better yet with someone who would NEVER admit defeat no matter the outcome.
Art, it's pretty plain and simple.With all due respect, go back and look at the header, it is addressed to Daking.It's there for you to read and Daking to respond too. Either a rebutle, or preferably an apology for degrading and demeaning!
There actually is no fight, just something going on between 2 men, not 3.
It's a three part process
Daking making personal attacks, me calling him on it, his response! Then it's over, no need for a third party in that process! Again, sorry Art!
Multidigits
11-10-2006, 06:31 AM
Art, it's pretty plain and simple.With all due respect, go back and look at the header, it is addressed to Daking.It's there for you to read and Daking to respond too. Either a rebutle, or preferably an apology for degrading and demeaning!
There actually is no fight, just something going on between 2 men, not 3.
It's a three part process
Daking making personal attacks, me calling him on it, his response! Then it's over, no need for a third party in that process! Again, sorry Art!
Well I went back and looked. Seems the thread was about gas prices until you changed it to a testement that the Dow is now fixed after 2 days of Democratic control of Congress. When you did that number, it opened this thread up to anyone with an alternate opinion, that includes Art who summed things up fairly nicely.
Personally, I don't think it matters how it got to where it is as much as it matters where it's at. Where it's at is all too familiar.
grouser68
11-10-2006, 06:46 AM
Well I went back and looked. Seems the thread was about gas prices until you changed it to a testement that the Dow is now fixed after 2 days of Democratic control of Congress. When you did that number, it opened this thread up to anyone with an alternate opinion, that includes Art who summed things up fairly nicely.
Look, A few weeks back there were 2 threads on the dow, all you republicans said it was due to the strong economy and the way the republicans were running the govt.
Daking said indirectly it was the dems fault for the higher gas prices.I ASKED how you explain a new record dow on the day the dems won it all! Of course it then had nothing to do with poliitics!
Guys, I can see whats happening here,APPEARS your all pretty bitter about the elections and want to lash out! Go ahead, vent!Just don't get on a public forum and personally attack a person just because the elections did'nt fall your way! Thats all I am saying
IMO Daking crossed that line, Art, Multi, Max, and the rest have expressed their views without stooping to calling people total dumba$$'s!Thank you for that!
Now, I am sorry for another thread getting off track, but you have to admit, you guys are really wanting to carry on with this! Start a venting thread, or stop the blood bath thread and we can talk!
I'm not bitter about the elections at all. In fact, like I've been saying all along I'm kinda glad. It's been 12 years of complaining and I'm ready to see if the dems can put their money where their mouth is.
My thing is just that it doesn't matter who or what gets involved in these threads or what is said, they all end up the same way.
Multidigits
11-10-2006, 06:53 AM
Look, A few weeks back there were 2 threads on the dow, all you republicans said it was due to the strong economy and the way the republicans were running the govt.
Daking said indirectly it was the dems fault for the higher gas prices.I ASKED how you explain a new record dow on the day the dems won it all! Of course it then had nothing to do with poliitics!
Guys, I can see whats happening here,APPEARS your all pretty bitter about the elections and want to lash out! Go ahead, vent!Just don't get on a public forum and personally attack a person just because the elections did'nt fall your way! Thats all I am saying
IMO Daking crossed that line, Art, Multi, Max, and the rest have expressed their views without stooping to calling people total dumba$$'s!Thank you for that!
Now, I am sorry for another thread getting off track, but you have to admit, you guys are really wanting to carry on with this! Start a venting thread, or stop the blood bath thread and we can talk!
Can you prove that the Dow being up this week was a result of the Dems winning on Tuesday????? Post up the doucumantation please.
Sure, we're disappointed about the elections, but it's not the end of the world. We know have a lame duck Congress. The Dems control both Houses. Bush's rating start to climb imediately. The GOP looks good going into the elections in two years. That's what is important.
Wildcat
11-10-2006, 07:40 AM
I'm not bitter about the elections at all. In fact, like I've been saying all along I'm kinda glad. It's been 12 years of complaining and I'm ready to see if the dems can put their money where their mouth is.
My thing is just that it doesn't matter who or what gets involved in these threads or what is said, they all end up the same way.
Same here, the democrats promised they would make things better and unless they do they will get voted out of office in 2 years. By the way Art was right in his other post.
daking
11-10-2006, 08:32 AM
Art, it's pretty plain and simple.With all due respect, go back and look at the header, it is addressed to Daking.It's there for you to read and Daking to respond too. Either a rebutle, or preferably an apology for degrading and demeaning!
There actually is no fight, just something going on between 2 men, not 3.
It's a three part process
Daking making personal attacks, me calling him on it, his response! Then it's over, no need for a third party in that process! Again, sorry Art!
Whoa..wait...stop the music. What personal attack. I've got three posts that are even remotely addressed to you Grouser. Where have I been demeaning? C'mon, because I disagree with you, because I challenge your arguments, because I point out where you might have made a logical or factual error, I'm demeaning you?
This I gotta hear.
PhilpotHunter
11-10-2006, 09:01 AM
Grouser, with all do respect I think you are without a doubt the MOST partisan person on this forum
That comment alone shows how partisan you are. Lets see here, you've got Multi who refuses to admit the Dems ever did anything right regardless of the truth, you've got Wildcat that will collect evidence against you and turn you in to the "politics police" every chance he gets just because you don't agree with him. You've got yote hunter that flat out despises dems and would rather see them shipped off to an island. And you've got countless others that will argue against dems just for the pure sake of doing it.
And yet you say Grouser is the most partisan? Why, because he doesn't agree with you guys? That is pretty typical of this forums mentality when it comes to anything other that republican views. Sure he is vocal, but not as vindictive as some of the others I've mentioned. He tries to do it tactfully.
The problem is right now you guys are in shock. You have just lost control, and you can't be arrogant about it anymore. The only thing you can do now is predict doom and gloom. Its no different than when the dems predicted doom and gloom when the gop took over. And guess what, in the dems view a lot of doom and gloom has occured with the gop in the drivers seat. Just like a lot of your percieved doom and gloom is probably going to happen.
Welcome to the real world boys. In the real world you don't get to run around acting like your untouchable for very long before you get knocked flat on your back. And that is exactly what has happened. The arrogance of the gop over the last 6 years has just caught up with you. Now its your turn to sit back and eat your crow.
Hows that for partisan?:D Finally we can get this country back on track. I for one can't wait to see some of the changes that will come.
Multidigits
11-10-2006, 09:13 AM
That comment alone shows how partisan you are. Lets see here, you've got Multi who refuses to admit the Dems ever did anything right regardless of the truth, you've got Wildcat that will collect evidence against you and turn you in to the "politics police" every chance he gets just because you don't agree with him. You've got yote hunter that flat out despises dems and would rather see them shipped off to an island. And you've got countless others that will argue against dems just for the pure sake of doing it.
And yet you say Grouser is the most partisan? Why, because he doesn't agree with you guys? That is pretty typical of this forums mentality when it comes to anything other that republican views. Sure he is vocal, but not as vindictive as some of the others I've mentioned. He tries to do it tactfully.
The problem is right now you guys are in shock. You have just lost control, and you can't be arrogant about it anymore. The only thing you can do now is predict doom and gloom. Its no different than when the dems predicted doom and gloom when the gop took over. And guess what, in the dems view a lot of doom and gloom has occured with the gop in the drivers seat. Just like a lot of your percieved doom and gloom is probably going to happen.
Welcome to the real world boys. In the real world you don't get to run around acting like your untouchable for very long before you get knocked flat on your back. And that is exactly what has happened. The arrogance of the gop over the last 6 years has just caught up with you. Now its your turn to sit back and eat your crow.
Hows that for partisan?:D Finally we can get this country back on track. I for one can't wait to see some of the changes that will come.
OK, go ahead and post what the Dems have done right, be sure to post the reference to it. Or better yet, post what the new agenda is going to be. What is going to save the world as we know it---let's see, they are going to raise the min. wage, they are going to spend billions on stem cell research, they will try to withdraw from Iraq even though most other countries are urging us to hold fast. Go ahead, what's the great news headed our way???
trust me
11-10-2006, 09:16 AM
Let's get this thread off of personalities and subtle insults. This thread is headed for a quick lockdown if the present course continues.
I am a Senior in college and an Accounting major to boot. I have had 4 years in College and have 1 more year to go (need 150 hours to become a CPA). During these past 4 years I have woked for minimum wage (even though I don't now). I work about 30 hours a week, have a car payment, and have to drive about 350 miles a week (3 days to school 4 days to work). I make it just fine, so don't give me "that poor college student who can't afford anything" excuse. It simply isn't valid. Let's talk sample size. Don't take my one oppion on it, go to any bar on thursday night in richmond or lexington. You will find plenty of students who can afford to pay a couple bucks a drink. The ones who barely scrape by are the ones who won't go out and get a job to begin with, just like real life.
I have had enough accounting and economic classes to know that if you raise an expense then you have to raise a revenue to break even. That means you raise prices or find cheaper materials to work with. This means higher prices or lower quality (pick your poision). Even though a minimum wage increase would mean that I would get a raise I AM AGAINST IT. A couple extra cents an hour isn't worth the headache of inflation.
If you are poor then you are poor for a reason. It's not something that big business has done to you it's almost always your own fault. Chances are if you are a grown adult and making minimum wage then you 1) Havent graduated high school or 2) are contempt with minimum wage. There are more than enough factories and service companies that will START NEW EMPLOYEES OUT ABOVE THE PROPOSED MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE. If you didn't graduate high school then you deserve to get paid whatever your employer pays you. If you wouldn't help yourself out then why would anybody else. I am sorry that this sounds harsh but most of the time (I know there will be exceptions) it's true.
There are 2 facts that no one has talked about. 1) If a company has to raise it's wage expense then their revenues will decrease. There will be some companies that will move out of the country for a substantially cheaper wage expense. Think about how many companies have left the states already, what do you think an increased expense will do. 2) Illegal immigrants are coming to our country because of the oppertunity to make money. If you think that the problem is bad now just wait untill they get a 2 dollar pay raise. The ones who are at home in MEXICO right now thinking it may not be worth the risk to go to America for 5.15 may think twice for 7 something an hour. I'm just saying.
Finally (and I apollogize for the long post) people who are "on the draw" are on the "draw" for a reason. It's called LAZINESS. I work at a bank and see it every month. People who are just as capible as I am are sitting at home getting paid to watch tv. Heck, a lot of the time they are as young as I am and have nothing wrong with them. Don't get me wrong I am 100% for disability if someone needs it, and there are a lot of people who need it, but most people I see are just unwilling to work. It's why communism failed. Why do more than you have to inorder to get by? 2 more dollars to minimum wage isn't going to change anything but the prices at the register.
maxcam
11-10-2006, 10:20 AM
OK, go ahead and post what the Dems have done right, be sure to post the reference to it. Or better yet, post what the new agenda is going to be. What is going to save the world as we know it---let's see, they are going to raise the min. wage, they are going to spend billions on stem cell research, they will try to withdraw from Iraq even though most other countries are urging us to hold fast. Go ahead, what's the great news headed our way???
You know what soo funny about Micheal J Fox and the Missouri race with regards to stem cell research...... There is absolutely no one stopping that research from going on now.....The federal government just would waist our money on it......Why is it a waste.....Because no major biomedical research company has invested in it.......
Stem Cell Research is legal but there is nothing to gain there.....It is a herring to justify abortion.....
daking
11-10-2006, 10:54 AM
Good job Bray. I don't know where you're going to school, but it appears that they're teaching you some useful stuff. Given what you've said, I presume you to be about 22-23. I have a kid that's 18 and one that's 20. If what you're saying, and what I hear from my kids and their friends, liberalism is in big trouble. It better be. The USA has reached its maximum population. Any study of demographics shows that we are an aging society that has produced fewer offspring than the generation before. At 52, I'm closer to the end than the beginning. When you're my age, the US population will have shrunken and the ratio of earners to people who don't earn will be somewhere in the 1/1 to 1.5/1 range. If we don't stem this tide now, the national debt won't be your problem. It will be supporting people who will not work.
Keep the faith, Bray.
killinmammals
11-10-2006, 11:06 AM
I might have read over it somewhere, a few things were already said about the minimum wage increase, but it will also result in less jobs.
Wildcat
11-10-2006, 04:36 PM
you've got Wildcat that will collect evidence against you and turn you in to the "politics police" every chance he gets just because you don't agree with him.
Bless your heart, you still can't get it right after all this time.
I have no idea what your talking about the "politics police", I never knew there was any such thing.
The only think I can think of is I saved a couple of your posts to give to the moderators. You were BREAKING THE FORUM RULES THAT YOU AGREED TO WHEN YOU REGISTERED HERE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.
I don't see why a few certain members can break the rules and get away with it and the rest of us are forced to follow all the rules. Since we all clinked on "I agree" when we registered then the rules should be for each one of us equal. That's all I've ever asked.
I could care less if someone agrees with me or not as long as they follow the same rules as I have to.
Wildcat
11-10-2006, 04:47 PM
Good post Bray.
I started out at minimum wage while still in school. I just kept working away and started my own business when I was 22. Over the years I owned 7 business and in the last year I still had 3 of them. I sold them all 4 years ago and retired at 50. Been enjoying life ever since, traveling, hunting, fishing, camping, driving liberals crazy, I've been doing all this with my two best friends, my CPA and lawyer. They helped me get where I am.
You are on the right track and if you stay on it you will go far. Daking is right.
Xi Bowhunter
11-10-2006, 05:35 PM
Let's get this thread off of personalities and subtle insults. This thread is headed for a quick lockdown if the present course continues.
IMHO, it shoud have been shut down the moment it was satrted. Any topic of this nature goes down the tubes fast around here. The title of the thread shows the direction it was headed.
I apologize to anyone I offended, that was not my intent. My point was that we have a few guys here who only see it one way. By people further attacking myself as well as others only serves to prove my point.
These political threads go nowhere anymore. I just wish that the usual suspects would agree to argue one specific topic at a time.:)
daking
11-10-2006, 06:18 PM
I disagree. If people want to discuss this matter on this thread in a spirited manner, let 'em have at it. If you don't like it, don't read it. Censorship seems to be a real popular thing here of late.
slickhead slayer
06-04-2008, 12:03 PM
The problem is right now you guys are in shock. You have just lost control, and you can't be arrogant about it anymore. The only thing you can do now is predict doom and gloom. Its no different than when the dems predicted doom and gloom when the gop took over. And guess what, in the dems view a lot of doom and gloom has occured with the gop in the drivers seat. Just like a lot of your percieved doom and gloom is probably going to happen.
Welcome to the real world boys. In the real world you don't get to run around acting like your untouchable for very long before you get knocked flat on your back. And that is exactly what has happened. The arrogance of the gop over the last 6 years has just caught up with you. Now its your turn to sit back and eat your crow.
Hows that for partisan?:D Finally we can get this country back on track. I for one can't wait to see some of the changes that will come.
How are those "changes" working out?;)
PhilpotHunter
06-04-2008, 12:47 PM
How are those "changes" working out?;)
Guess we'll see huh?;)
maxcam
06-04-2008, 01:16 PM
Guess we'll see huh?;)
Those of us that will be able to afford to stick around might get too......Those poor disinfranchised souls the Demorcratic party is suppose to care so much about, well lets just say their life is just more disinfranchised and leave it at that.......
Marmot_Militia
06-04-2008, 02:39 PM
...Tell Saudi Arabia to pump more oil..that will lower prices.
How about if the #^%@ democrats get out of the way and let us drill and pump our own freeking oil?????
More supply, same demand = lower prices.
BTW the big bad oil companies are not the ones "gouging" us...the gubment made twice the profit off the oil. ie the oil companies paid $20B in taxes, and profited $10B. Who's the real gouger??? I'll answer that: BIG GOVERNMENT!
MM
ps: and yes, the price has nearly doubled since the Dems got in office...can't trust a word they say.
KYCatBirdHunter
06-04-2008, 04:02 PM
everyone always complains about the taxes on gas. Anyone know what those taxes are used for???
Roads, bridges, and other infrastructure to drive those cars on. Kinda makes sense, doesn't it?
Duster
06-04-2008, 04:38 PM
Anyone look at the date this thread was started ? Wonder if someone will revive it almost two years from now like this time...:D
MsgMills
06-04-2008, 05:09 PM
Daking, I have avoided posting the past 3-4 days because of just this type of arguement.The election is over, the AMERICAN PEOPLE have made their choice.(majority rules)
If Majority rules then Hillery should get the nomination by the popular vote... She got more votes than Obama did now that the election is done.....So who do you think should win.....If the American People are the ones to truly say who gets to run, then Hillery should be picked as the eventual winner...... So why vote in the first place if the votes aren't going to count, when in fact it's the Delegates and Super Delegates that are the real factors that make the decision on who runs for office or not...... So your Majority Vote is bogus as your candidate.....:rolleyes:
6.5x55swedish
06-04-2008, 07:09 PM
I think the reason Obama is the nominee is because the Supers deligates for the most part don't really like the Clintons and they respect McCain and know that Obama can't beat him.
Willie
06-04-2008, 07:30 PM
http://www.kentuckyhunting.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62373
maxcam
06-04-2008, 07:41 PM
everyone always complains about the taxes on gas. Anyone know what those taxes are used for???
Roads, bridges, and other infrastructure to drive those cars on. Kinda makes sense, doesn't it?
Actually I think they should apply the taxes on the cars and trucks instead of the gas or deisel. Making sure to double tax cars made by foreign owned companies......Just my 02 worth.....
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