Hey CSS, CWD Question

[Strutter]

I saw a question on another forum concerning CWD. It got me to wondering about his question and how this disease is transmitted of which I have no idea. The guy wanted to know if the disease could be transmitted in urine that is collected and sold as a deer lure. He was concerned that we, as hunters, take the scent and pour it in scrapes and make our own scrapes and generally hope that every deer in the woods comes to visit. This could be a big problem if it can be transmitted this way due to the number of deer scents/lures on the market from all over the country. Is this possible?

Thanks,
Strutter

[CSS archer]

Good question Strutter! Little is known about CWD transmission, it is assumed that nose to nose contact can spread it for sure. I've read where a facility in Fort Collins eliminated the elk in their pen where they had CWD, 3 years later put elk back and those animals got CWD. Now whether the animals came from a bad source or contracted CWD from the soil is unknown. I'll see what I can find out.

[Strutter]

Thanks CSS.

Strutter

[Multidigits]

For a crash course in CWD, go to Wyoming's F & G site. There is an quick history of it.

Guess where the first cases was found and who unknowingly helped spread the disease??? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't on a private game ranch.

[Multidigits]

http://gf.state.wy.us/HTML/hunting/chronicwast.htm

[Highbow]

Thanks Multi, for a great thread, I find this information to be very interesting and a little bit of a surprise that so much is being kept quite about the unknown.

[DC]

I had a very lengthy and not too friendly post ready to go. But twice I was returned to this thread because of a password snafu. God's way of giving me a chance to back off and reclaim my temper. I can take a hint.

I will only say, no one is trying to hide anything because there is nothing to hide. If anyone thinks when you shoo 495 elk off the back of cattle trucks that a few (1-5/year) won't break their leg, pelvis, etc. and have to be destroyed that person is living in fantasy land. The KDFWR even had to destroy such an animal in front of 1,200 people a few years ago--it happens. No big secret, certainly not a disease issue.

Example, the state of Utah has tested more than 1,000 dead elk for CWD and they have never found a positive case. That's one of the reasons KDFWR is so fond of that elk supply. We will not accept elk from a state where CWD has been found in the wild or in captivity--period. We have tested every animal that dies at the source state or here for the disease--to date, thank God no positive tests have resulted.

I think it is in very poor taste, to say the least to scream fire in a crowded theater.

[Highbow]

DC, I think you are just too over worked, My reply was concerning the facts at the web site that Multi listed are not the same things we hear in this area.I posted a question to you that was removed and I still would like to know why it is that brain worm doesn't harm whitetail but kills Elk??? I'm not trying to blame you for any of this and I know the elk program is sensitive in many ways.

[Xtreme]

I think Roy has been exposed to MC disease. [Mad Commisioner]<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>..Just kiddin Roy!!!!<img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>

[mossyhorns]

Whitetail deer have developed a natural resistance to brainworm over the eons. Elk and fallow deer do not have the natural resistance. That's why the fallow herd in LBL is struggling.

[Multidigits]

DC-- I'm thinking I've missed a post or something, because I didn't see anything about a cover-up concerning Kentucky elk that was posted. The link that I posted was to a quick history of the disease. It was not meant to inflame or was not in reference to Kentucky's program.

That said, if the article from Wyoming's site was correct(assuming???), there would be NO way to guarantee that ANY elk transported from the West or anyplace couldn't be a carrier of the disease. If it spread from the Ft. Collins pen north, why couldn't it make it to Utah or other places???? I'm not accusing, but rather asking. The shocker to the linked story was that the disease spread not because of game ranches but by ignorance to the disease itself and the severity of the problem.

To absolutely try and guarantee the public that this disease couldn't pop-up in Kentucky someday may not be wise, rather it comes from the elk or elsewhere.

[grouseguy]

I had the same thought Multi, did I miss something or was there a post deleted that caused such an unrelated response from DC?

[Valley Station]

Gentlemen ,

If you haven't seen it , there is a intersting "Issues" article in the Spring 2002 issue of Kentucky Afield , on CWD. It discusses history, scientific facts and actions taken by the Ky F&W on CWD.
For example, Ky F&W has stopped all legal importation of deer and elk into Kentucky. Other regulations are in the works.
I don't think, anybody is "A sleep at the wheel".
Hope biologist and researchers are busy with question , Can CWD be spread by deer scent/urine products? Should Ky stop the use of scents products, until more is known?? Please keep us posted.

[CSS archer]

I think Highbow's response about "so much being kept quite about the unknown" being DC's reaction. I interpreted HB's comment meaning the link multi posted and the number of years CWD has been around and how little is/was mentioned of it.

This is a very sensitive issue, if CWD can be spread through bad urine seems like baiting or any artificial attractant for deer should be illegal. Is it overkill? Can a squirt of tinks be compared to the confines of a pen and the concentration of urine in such an area?

[Xtreme]

I dont think Highbow meant to yank DC's chain Joe. I think he meant that it's strange how this disease just kind of popped out of the woodwork. Kind of like AIDS in the 80's. I have read enough of Highbows posts to know that he does not mind telling it like it is in his opinion. I also know that he cares deeply about what goes on as far as F&W matters in this state.

This is a disease that we dont need to fight over but to FIGHT in general. As far as any secrets , Roy made it about as plain as can be made at the last UBK commission meeting as to the seriousness and the facts as we know it.

To take this one step further, the Courier Journal, had an article in the Science section today stating that Mad Cow disease when introduced to mice settled in their hindquarters. So far, all that was known in infected animals were that the disease settled in the brains, spinal chords and marrow of infected animals.

We may very well have a new enemy to the the way of life that we so cherish and it is not anti-hunting humans but one of natures oldest and most efficient killers.......DISEASE.....Lets all stick together and fight this , not each other.

[Highbow]

Thanks Extreme for the support, I am very much interested in the facts being up front on this disease problem and others. It still doesn't make a lot of since( maybe my lack of knowledge) why that this brain worm thing has just sort of popped out of the air. If this has been around for many years and known to be here , WHY WOULD WE TAKE SUCH CHANCES OF BRINGING ELK INTO AN INFESTED STATE? Now if the elk weren't infested before they got here how can you now protect them from the damages that will surely take place from the high rate of brain worm found in our deer herds? DC & JOE,you really can't think that I'm not concerned??? I put a lot of time and money into whitetail hunting, archery, food plots and more hunters should be as concerned as I am, don't use me as a way out of giving the public the answers to some simple questions????
I read the article in KY Afield and it just made everything sound so perfect. I have the desire to see our whitetail herd become the best in the USA, the elk are OK if they don't cost us the loss or damage of food sources for the deer or threaten the health ofthe greatest
challenge in nature-mature Whitetail Bucks.

[INKYHUNTER]

Highbow it sounds to me as if your main love affair is with the whitetail. The whitetail was re-introduced in most counties in Ky a few years back. Why the objection to re-introducing elk. Wildlife goes well beyond deer and elk. Sometimes it sounds to me that some people want deer but to h--- with everything else.

[CSS archer]

I agree Extreme, I was suggesting the reason for the reactions the thread was heading. Highbow meant nothing toward KDFWR by that post as far as I could tell.

I too love the deer and turkey and elk. Brainworm was here when elk were here 300 years ago, we lose fewer to brainworm than natural mortality out west so we will still have good reproduction here.

The real threat of CWD is from farmed elk and deer, I don't think they should be held in captivity for any reason, other than possibly research to find cures or answers to such diseases.

[Highbow]

INKYHUNTER, I list Whitetail as my primary concern because they are number 1 in my book. I hunt grouse, turkey, coyotes, bobcats and on occasion quail. The elk are ok but I'm not in favor of putting our deer at risk for a few elk, and in that, I'm not saying that is happening. It was just my opinion that I am very concerned with CWD and this brainworm problem. Thanks CSS, for understanding my point.
I don't need to post anything further on this.

[bf4cm28]

Hello everyone just a word of caution CWD is real and a big threat to the way we manage deer. CWD has now been found in Wisconsin and still no one knows what to do about it. At this time they have killed 500 deer in a 415 square mile area and found 14 infected deer. NOW WHAT!!!
Take this disease serious and don't point fingers but try to work with officials to find a way to beat this threat to our way of life!

A true hunter is ethical when someone is watching and when they are alone.