LE Report 2006

[Multidigits]

Commission Meeting, Friday, June 9, 2006

Summary from Law Enforcement Division


2006 Spring Turkey Season: Col. Casey informed the Commission that the state had one hundred sixty-two documented bait sites for spring season. From these, seventy-eight violators were charged. Commissioners discussed the possibility of mandating physical arrests for each violator in the future to make the penalty more severe. Also, five people were charged for possession of electronic callers during the season (two in actual use).

[schuyler olt]

Mandating physical arrest is DEFINITELY not the way to address the issue, and here's why--

When an officer arrests a person, that officer must physically accompany the person to the jail. Because the government is now responsible for the safety of the arrested individual, the arresting officer (or some other officer of that department) must stay with the person until the person is booked into the jail.
The booking process can take quite some time--in a city like Louisville it can run a couple of hours or more.

So what happens that instead of the officer spending a few minutes writing a citation and then moving on to potentially cite another violator, the officer is running a taxi service into the county seat, waiting around the jail, and then driving back out to the country to resume the duties for which we are paying him. Taking into account the 37.5 hour issue, you have now, in effect, substantially reduced your enforcement presence in a given area.

We faced this same situation with the Jefferson County Police Force, and found that in situations where the officer had the discretion to cite or take into custody, the citation was a better option when it came to keeping manpower in the neighborhoods.

They need to go to jail AFTER conviction if the circumstances warrant. They need to face stiff fines and confiscation of their hunting rights and equipment. In my opinion, there should be 83 turkey guns being sold at the next KDFWR auction and for those that are multiple offenders, some trucks and four wheelers, too. Explaining a ticket to your spouse is one thing. Explaining why the pickup truck is going to be auctioned and you are going to have to still pay the $8500 you still owe on it is quite another.

[Multidigits]

The outdoors are much larger than inter-city areas of Jefferson Co. We see that the whole force wrote 78 citations during the coarse of the entire season--seems there would be plenty of time for someone to spend two or three hours or more following up on an arrest.

[GSP]

Mandating physical arrest is DEFINITELY not the way to address the issue, and here's why--

When an officer arrests a person, that officer must physically accompany the person to the jail. Because the government is now responsible for the safety of the arrested individual, the arresting officer (or some other officer of that department) must stay with the person until the person is booked into the jail.
The booking process can take quite some time--in a city like Louisville it can run a couple of hours or more.

So what happens that instead of the officer spending a few minutes writing a citation and then moving on to potentially cite another violator, the officer is running a taxi service into the county seat, waiting around the jail, and then driving back out to the country to resume the duties for which we are paying him. Taking into account the 37.5 hour issue, you have now, in effect, substantially reduced your enforcement presence in a given area.

We faced this same situation with the Jefferson County Police Force, and found that in situations where the officer had the discretion to cite or take into custody, the citation was a better option when it came to keeping manpower in the neighborhoods.

They need to go to jail AFTER conviction if the circumstances warrant. They need to face stiff fines and confiscation of their hunting rights and equipment. In my opinion, there should be 83 turkey guns being sold at the next KDFWR auction and for those that are multiple offenders, some trucks and four wheelers, too. Explaining a ticket to your spouse is one thing. Explaining why the pickup truck is going to be auctioned and you are going to have to still pay the $8500 you still owe on it is quite another.

The Commission was informed by Mr. Gailor that arrest was not the proper course of action. It was refered to committee.

[Valley Station]

Wonder how many were cited for tresspassing or illegal harvest of turkey on private property?

Poachers shooting deer and turkey from the vehicle , out of season, is still a problem, but, the "poacher" hunting during legal seasons,who doesn't stop at the legal bag limit may be hurting us more.
Those that hunt turkey thru out the season, that hunt and shoot turkey and don't tag, as long as the season is in. We all hear storys or rumors every spring of such'N'such shot 6 or 8 or 10 toms.
Or the guy, who thinks he can shoot a buck during bow season, then during gun season, then during muzzle loader season.
In the past there has been discussion of having convicted poacher's "Mug shots" on KDFWR web site. Most law abidding citizens would not like to have their pictures posted as "poachers" and would probably make a difference.

We could start the mug shot program, with a TV add, by having Jeff Foxworthy come in do his skit "Here's your sign" ,showing him handing a guy a sign that says "I steal wildlife".

[Multidigits]

Note: 162 confirmed bait sites is a INCREASE from last year.

78 citations is a fairly substantial decrease from last year.

[schuyler olt]

Note: 162 confirmed bait sites is a INCREASE from last year.

78 citations is a fairly substantial decrease from last year.

Any thoughts or information as to why that is? My initial reaction is to think that we lack sufficient enforcement to cover the sites to catch the violators, but for some reason my gut tells me that's probably not the case. I guess many factors could play into it, ranging from putting out corn for reasons other than hunting to weather to the fact that folks got their birds before the good guys could get there to monitor them.

[Multidigits]

On the first part--obviously, more people are baiting. As for less citations, who knows, probably a mixture of factors. At some point, everyone that is concerned need to find a way to eliminate feeding and baiting of bot deer and turkey to help make these cases automatic convictions.

[WildmanWilson]

The number of turkey hunters is increasing every year. Therefor the number of poachers will also increase.

Just like a traffic cop can give out more tickets now than he could 50 years ago due to the larger number of drivers on the road.

For the most part I think most hunters want to do things the "right" way but there will always be a portion of the population that's going to do things the way they want regardless of the law.

[snareman]

I look at it like this. If you get caught hunting turkey over bait which is HIGHLY unlikely you will most likely pay a fine of some type, probably won't loose the gun and even if you loose the hunting rights most will continue to hunt anyway. I've known of guys to never slow down when rights have been taken away. A trip to jail is more than likely going to be extremely humiliating. Oh, I forgot, most people are making payments on their vehicles and therefore they cannot be taken by the courts! What's to loose, a little money? Afterall, there may have been a few hundred sites located but how many thousand are out there? Put 'em in jail and let 'em think about that while the wife is coming to bail them out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[schuyler olt]

Just a correction--the courts can definitely confiscate vehicles on which money is owed to a bank or other lender.

[buckfever]

I'm not sure that any conclusions can really be drawn from this report.

I don't think it would be accurate to say more poachers are baiting simply by virtue of an increased number of located baiting sites. I think it's safe to say that 162 bait sites is only a tiny fraction of the total number existing in the state. Maybe we just had more people willing to turn in the cheaters or just some dumb luck in locating the sites???

The decrease in arrests (relative to the bait sites) is probably due to the fact that we're short on CO's. Our CO's are short-handed as it is. I'd imagine it's pretty tough to run surveillance on one bait site 24-7 when you also have to enforce the laws across a much broader area (with little or no help).

[Valley Station]

Is it possible to get a report, on what kind of success F&W had in court with those 87 citations?? Any organization ever try to go thru court records to check on success??

[sirgiovanni]

I dont' get this. It has been determined to be acceptable for anyone buying a liscense to kill 2 birds. I don't personally believe turkey baiting is all that it sounds to be cracked up to be for gobblers. Even if it is, that doesn't help you get more than 2 birds. People not tagging birds or tresspassing don't seem to get the attention that this change will make. That just seems rediculous to me.

[Multidigits]

In the past few years, bait sites found and monitored number around 100-120 or so, with citations being around a 100. Now, if CO's being short of the goal accounts for less successful citings, then it would also account for less bait sites found to be monitored. Being that they found more, it would indicate that there are more to be found. At any rate, it's taking a lot of time that could be spent on other activities that need it badly.

[maxcam]

Tom if you are suggesting that baiting is the problem I would ask you to explain what good would banning baiting do for the person that does it right? The fact is in society there will always be folks that want the easy way out and will do whatever they think they can get away with.....If the chances of getting caught are slim to none then more and more folks are going to get away with breaking the law.....

So far 160 sites represents about 1/10th of 1 percent of the number of hunters that turkey hunt....It looks like the odds are pretty good that most wont get caught regardless of the baiting law.....

I agree with some that a bigger problem isnt baiting but how many birds are being killed by hunters above and beyond there season bag limits....

Telecheck lends itself to be a tool for poaching more so for turkey than any other big game animal we hunt here in Kentucky......

If a hunter can shoot a bird and have it breasted out and have it on ice 10 minutes later, there is absolutely no way a CO is going to be able to repsond to that with out prior knowledge of the perp......

[Multidigits]

Goes back to IF you want to support the CO's and the job they have to do or not. You can decide who's side your on on that one. What your missing is what it takes to make a successful case against a poacher. They way it is now, a turkey has to die before a guy is guilty. If at some point, baiting or feeding is outlawed, then all of those bait piles(165) would have resulted in a citation instead of less than half of them, and much less time and energy expended getting it done.

I don't see why you think Telechek lends itself anymore to turkeys than it does deer, otters or bobcats. The same applies to all in the same manor.

[maxcam]

Goes back to IF you want to support the CO's and the job they have to do or not. You can decide who's side your on on that one. What your missing is what it takes to make a successful case against a poacher. They way it is now, a turkey has to die before a guy is guilty. If at some point, baiting or feeding is outlawed, then all of those bait piles(165) would have resulted in a citation instead of less than half of them, and much less time and energy expended getting it done.

I don't see why you think Telechek lends itself anymore to turkeys than it does deer, otters or bobcats. The same applies to all in the same manor.

I agree what is needed are stricter poaching laws that would keep local judges from crawfishing around what is already there.....Baiting for turkey is illegal now.....So what do you suggest?

There isnt a person that has used both systems that will disagree that telecheck is an easier system to take advantage of for the average hunter........

THere are very few folks that will kill a half dozen bobcats or otter for that matter in a year but you know as well as I do that it happens far to often with regards to turkey.......For the majority of hunters the shear magnitude of dealing with that many deer makes it too much work to even worry about it.......

You can push for anti baiting laws if you want to but I can tell you that it wont be an easy sell......If you really want a bunch of pissed off people over an issue than go ahead and see where it takes you.....

I think the best course of action is to work with the legal system to get tougher laws that are easier to enforce.....

[Multidigits]

I agree what is needed are stricter poaching laws that would keep local judges from crawfishing around what is already there.....Baiting for turkey is illegal now.....So what do you suggest?

There isnt a person that has used both systems that will disagree that telecheck is an easier system to take advantage of for the average hunter........

THere are very few folks that will kill a half dozen bobcats or otter for that matter in a year but you know as well as I do that it happens far to often with regards to turkey.......For the majority of hunters the shear magnitude of dealing with that many deer makes it too much work to even worry about it.......

You can push for anti baiting laws if you want to but I can tell you that it wont be an easy sell......If you really want a bunch of pissed off people over an issue than go ahead and see where it takes you.....

I think the best course of action is to work with the legal system to get tougher laws that are easier to enforce.....

First off, you said it's easier to cheat on a turkey than it is on a deer or other animal. It isn'r. They are all the same. Each is validated by your log and a phone call--so there is no difference from one or the other.

Your can breast a turkey, someone else can cut the back straps from a deer in the same amount of time. There is no difference.

As for baiting, the CO's want it banned. It's not hard to understand why. You said before your concerned for the resource. Seems you would be interested in LE of that resource and their number one enforcement issue???

[maxcam]

Tell me how more laws are going to work.....

We have no baiting laws now for turkey......there should be no question what the intent of a hunter is that is hunting on a baitied parcel of land.....The evidence should be there...ie shells,calls etc.....

The problem isnt with the no bait laws....The problem is with getting them enforced by local judges! I would be more than happy to work with the CO's and the KDFW on this issue....I already have for what its worth.....

You can ban baiting all day long and then believe it doesnt exist but there will still be a element of folks that will do it.....Ive seen to many bait piles on Fort Knox over the last 10 years to know that to be true.....Until we get real legislation that doesnt allow for plea bargaining and a slap on the wrist it will always be a concern........

In my opinion what needs to take place is a panel of CO's, Sportsmen, legal staff with the KDFW, Jim Lane, Head of LE and a couple of legislators to lead the charge and lets see what we can come up with.......IT might not be a bad idea to toss in a retired judge with some input.....

[Multidigits]

Tell me how more laws are going to work.....

We have no baiting laws now for turkey......there should be no question what the intent of a hunter is that is hunting on a baitied parcel of land.....The evidence should be there...ie shells,calls etc.....

The problem isnt with the no bait laws....The problem is with getting them enforced by local judges! I would be more than happy to work with the CO's and the KDFW on this issue....I already have for what its worth.....

You can ban baiting all day long and then believe it doesnt exist but there will still be a element of folks that will do it.....Ive seen to many bait piles on Fort Knox over the last 10 years to know that to be true.....Until we get real legislation that doesnt allow for plea bargaining and a slap on the wrist it will always be a concern........

In my opinion what needs to take place is a panel of CO's, Sportsmen, legal staff with the KDFW, Jim Lane, Head of LE and a couple of legislators to lead the charge and lets see what we can come up with.......IT might not be a bad idea to toss in a retired judge with some input.....

Don't play dumb. You know full well what the issue is. It's legal to feed and bait deer, but not turkey. People hunt both at the same time. It's legal to feed wildlife year round. It's illegal to hunt within an area of influence. Try to prove what that is in court of law.

A judge merely enforces the laws on the books, when they are vague or unenforcable, they have problems. When a CO has to prove beyond a doubt that a turkey was heading to a bait pile when it got shot, it's leaves open a door that the judge has to close or leave open. Under our system, he has to leave it open a lot of the time.

Bottom line, the CO want the loop holes closed. Your either for them or against them, up to you. Won't be long, you'll have to decide.

[maxcam]

Don't play dumb. You know full well what the issue is. It's legal to feed and bait deer, but not turkey. People hunt both at the same time. It's legal to feed wildlife year round. It's illegal to hunt within an area of influence. Try to prove what that is in court of law.

A judge merely enforces the laws on the books, when they are vague or unenforcable, they have problems. When a CO has to prove beyond a doubt that a turkey was heading to a bait pile when it got shot, it's leaves open a door that the judge has to close or leave open. Under our system, he has to leave it open a lot of the time.

Bottom line, the CO want the loop holes closed. Your either for them or against them, up to you. Won't be long, you'll have to decide.

Once again....My position is to close the loopholes and dont allow any crawfishin to occur by the courts......

If a parcel of land has baited sites then no turkey can legally be harvested anywhere, anytime on that parcel period! Its a real easy choice for the land owner to make....If he doesnt want to get fined he wont hunt turkey while baiting deer......There is no reason he cant fall turkey hunt in Oct and then put cornpiles out in time for gun season if that is what he choses to do.......

[JDMiller]

I know my opinion wont be popular with many....... but I think you need to do both. No baiting ( broadcast or piles of corn, grain, aftermarket suppliments) & tighter laws on prosecuting those that do.

Now that beig said...... the definition of bait would have to be defined. I personally dont have a problem with food plots because in most cases it does'nt concentrate deer or turkey into a small area ....as does piles of corn or broadcast feeders. Food plots.... even though they could be argued as a form of baiting .....would call for a regulation written allowing for agriculture practice for the pourpose of attracting wildlife....all other forms would be prohibited.

Again.....I know this would be unpopular with many....however in the end it would be providing a more level playing field for all hunters. What I'm getting at here.....and I think some could relate.... not everyone has hundreds or thousands of acres to hunt. Those that usually do are usually financially stable enough to put out numberous broadcast feeders or multiple bait sites . In turn the guy hunting a 30 - 50 acre tract that joins them may not be able to compete with that and inturn has reletively few sightings or no opportunity to harvest. In this case....no bait to constantly change the patterns would be a good thing for the smaller scale hunter.

On the flipside.....food plots would provide a edge but their usually not changing locations from year to year. You would just have to hunt neighboring food plots...pretty much like any food source. This would have to be more predictable than pouring grain at any location you want to hunt. Bait piles with high concentrations of wildlife also brings in other factors as disease being spread easier and combined with law enforcement concerns..... its not always the best thing to do.

This will be a sticky subject but I think we need to think about it from all directions..... pro or con.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[naturalelite]

Are we talking in the spring or fall??Spring I would think it would be easy to just stop all baiting. If the LE finds it write a ticket to the land owner who will in turn stop the hunting or force the hunter to pay the ticket. I know that will not be poplular with many but the only real way to stop it that I see. I don't want to bring negative opinions of hunters but if they would follow the laws there wouldn't be any. As far as the fall goes I don't think you can stop turkey hunting over bait until you outlaw baiting or everyone hunting starts obeying the laws. Its sad but unethical/unlawful hunters has caused this to become a problem. I do put bait out and I would hate to loose the only for sure shot I have every fall on a doe but something needs to change.

[mattjones298]

why the big deal? think of how much time law enforcement spends working (baits) and money. why not control fall hunting with season limits and if a man wants to hunt his game over bait that time of year let him. if people think it makes it to (easy) then lets just hunt with rocks and slingshots.

laws laws laws...thats what we need, more laws....

matt

[Valley Station]

MAXCAM,
Now that's interesting.
You've seen bait piles on Ft Knox?? Corn?? What hunt area did you see it in??

[schuyler olt]

I tend to agree with the concept of not allowing feeding during March, April and May.

But here's the rub--unless a CO actually sees the bait pile being put out, how do you prove who put it there? If you can't make that case, the only resort is to cite the landowner for a status offense (similar but not as extreme as the dope being planted between the cornrows). I don't think we want to go there. If you think it's hard getting access now, just wait until a farmer has to be concerned that some numbskull puts out a bag of corn.

As it stands today, by the way, you only have to be hunting with the influence of bait--taking the bird or shooting at the bird is not neccessary.

[mattjones298]

i agree with sky, i would like to see lawenforcement spend there time hunting people jacking up deer in the fall, then watching for some old guy on a four wheeler with a sack of corn on the back of it...co`s are spread thin enough as it is.

matt

[Multidigits]

I tend to agree with the concept of not allowing feeding during March, April and May.

But here's the rub--unless a CO actually sees the bait pile being put out, how do you prove who put it there? If you can't make that case, the only resort is to cite the landowner for a status offense (similar but not as extreme as the dope being planted between the cornrows). I don't think we want to go there. If you think it's hard getting access now, just wait until a farmer has to be concerned that some numbskull puts out a bag of corn.

As it stands today, by the way, you only have to be hunting with the influence of bait--taking the bird or shooting at the bird is not neccessary.

Yeah, but area of influence is not determined by any set distance and is subject to what the judge might believe. You also can't prove that a turkey is headed to the bait, until it gets there and sticks his head in it.

I would imagine that the first attempt to legislate this will be a 3 month ban on feeding. That might help with the spring hunt. But it won't eliminate the bigger threat of hunting fall turkeys over deer bait.

[schuyler olt]

Tom, I agree that the "influence" part of our current baiting law is problemmatic. You and I have noted on here several times that at least in theory, the bait could be on a different parcel of property and the violator not even know it was there. I think we need to change it to a set distance--like something in the neighborhood of 300 yards.

Fall is a difficult situation, to be candid about it. I think baiting is very much a part of Kentucky deer hunting, to the point there would be a huge uproar if you tried to do away with it. Maybe if we get a CWD case we might get rid of it. In the meantime, all you can rely upon is the thirty day rule.

[Valley Station]

How is the NO Baiting Law for deer or turkey on Ky WMA enforced??
If somebody scatters a bag of corn on Taylorsville, does that make it illegal for anybody to legally deer or turkey hunt?? Land manager responsible??
Wonder, is that for shootin' or huntin' ??
The DUI(deer) or TUI (turkey under influence) laws been "tested" on WMA , yet??
I've seen corn piles on Green WMA.

[buckfever]

Once again....My position is to close the loopholes and dont allow any crawfishin to occur by the courts......

If a parcel of land has baited sites then no turkey can legally be harvested anywhere, anytime on that parcel period! Its a real easy choice for the land owner to make....If he doesnt want to get fined he wont hunt turkey while baiting deer......There is no reason he cant fall turkey hunt in Oct and then put cornpiles out in time for gun season if that is what he choses to do.......

Doug - That wouldn't work for a couple of reasons. First, the proximity of the bait HAS to be considered if you allow baiting. For example, suppose you have a 2000 acre farm and you bait for deer at one end, it would make absolutely no sense to disallow you from hunting turkeys 2 miles away on the other end of the farm. What you're proposing makes sense on a 100 acre farm but not a 1000 acre farm. Second, property lines can't be the defining criteria. As others have pointed out, it would allow the fall turkey hunter to use their neighbor's bait piles (which may be intended for deer).

[maxcam]

Doug - That wouldn't work for a couple of reasons. First, the proximity of the bait HAS to be considered if you allow baiting. For example, suppose you have a 2000 acre farm and you bait for deer at one end, it would make absolutely no sense to disallow you from hunting turkeys 2 miles away on the other end of the farm. What you're proposing makes sense on a 100 acre farm but not a 1000 acre farm. Second, property lines can't be the defining criteria. As others have pointed out, it would allow the fall turkey hunter to use their neighbor's bait piles (which may be intended for deer).

I would think that the reg could be changed so that no baiting can occur on any property in which a turkey is harvested period......This would undercut any arguement involving proximity or influenced area.....

Those that wish to break the law are going to do so regardless. In the mean time those that wish to follow the law are going to be forced to give up something they enjoy.......

[buckfever]

I would think that the reg could be changed so that no baiting can occur on any property in which a turkey is harvested period......This would undercut any arguement involving proximity or influenced area.....

Those that wish to break the law are going to do so regardless. In the mean time those that wish to follow the law are going to be forced to give up something they enjoy.......

Believe me, I would have no problem with eliminating baiting, but I think it's complicated when you get down to enforcement and the equities. I don't think you can tell Hunter/Landowner A with that he can't bait 2 miles away from his turkey hunting spot when Hunter/Landowner B can shoot turkeys on his 50 acres, which, by the way, may very well be on their way over to feed on the grain on Landowner's C's property 300 yards away.

[Valley Station]

It may be complicated, but, the federal boys sure haven't had any problem with baiting law enforcement for dove and waterfowl.

[buckfever]

It may be complicated, but, the federal boys sure haven't had any problem with baiting law enforcement for dove and waterfowl.

I agree, but I think it's a little different with dove and ducks. As a practical matter, when they catch dove/duckhunters hunting over a baited field, the hunters are usually hunting smack dab over the top of the field.

I think it's also a lot easier to find a baited dove/duck field. You locate where the birds are congregating and then look for the bait. With turkeys, I think it's probably a lot tougher, and a poacher can put a big pile of bait out in the woods with little chance that anyone will ever find it.

[mossyhorns]

Several years ago the Dept. had a dove field on Birdsville Island in the Ohio. Just before the opener they found where someone had dragged bags of grain in from a boat and "baited" the field. The COs had to shut it down.

It would be really easy to mess up your neighbor or vice versa.

[GSP]

Several years ago the Dept. had a dove field on Birdsville Island in the Ohio. Just before the opener they found where someone had dragged bags of grain in from a boat and "baited" the field. The COs had to shut it down.

It would be really easy to mess up your neighbor or vice versa.
This was done on a Dept Walk In dove shoot in Garrad 2 years ago. Someone dump wheat on the field day before season. Lost that field.:mad:

[maxcam]

Believe me, I would have no problem with eliminating baiting, but I think it's complicated when you get down to enforcement and the equities. I don't think you can tell Hunter/Landowner A with that he can't bait 2 miles away from his turkey hunting spot when Hunter/Landowner B can shoot turkeys on his 50 acres, which, by the way, may very well be on their way over to feed on the grain on Landowner's C's property 300 yards away.


If landowner C is a farmer this may very well be the case and there will be absolutely nothing that any law will be able to do to correct the problem.....

[Valley Station]

Buckfever,
Actually locating corn bait sites is quite easy, when the leaves are off.
They fly over with small plane on a sunny day and corn bait site stands out like a "shinny gold tooth". Mark the map and they have a bait site for enforcement. An "Illegal Bait Report" could be generated and made public, notifying land owners of their illegal to hunt status.
Land owner wants his property returned to "legal status"? Clean up bait site, call F&W for inspection and removal from list.

[JDMiller]

I would say there are a lot of circumstances to consider but we seem to be placing a lot of the burden on the landowner with some of the comments. I expect a lot of landowners are not the actual hunters of their property and if we shift sole responsibility of baiting by hunters squarely on the shoulders of the property owner....... were going to shut the door on a lot of hunting ground.

I think ultimately ....eliminating all baiting with the exception of food plots will be appropriate action. If eliminated for deer & turkey there is not a lot of question on who , what , when..... it would just be illegal to do.....period. Eliminating for set periods of time(3-months in spring) may aid in the situation but were not addressing the issue for fall. I also think it would allow the continuance of the same loopholes that keep CO's from getting convictions now on those that are harvesting turkeys over bait while deer hunting.

Hunters ....hunting a particiular piece of property have to accept some responsibility and consider the consiquences. One of the fastest ways to police a piece of property would be for the hunters to be aware of a possible citation.....even if they did not put the bait out. In time.....or at least after being fined... they would report ilegal baiting to cover their own butts.

I'm sure this raises other legal technicalities that would be sure to arrise in certain situations . However in my opinion it hard to continue to allow it for one game animal while there is a season for the other in the same time period. I just believe it would be easier to eliminate the problem instead of creating new ones.

[Multidigits]

Placing the blame on the landowner won't cut it. It's not illegal to feed wildlife at this time. Nor could they be held responsible if someone besides themselves placed the bait.

Baiting will need to be defined and someone will have to decide what is considered bait--salt, mineral, corn, food plots, manipulation of food plots, etc.

Will it be OK to grow corn and bushhog it a few days before turkey season??

Sure to be a hit when it's time to take on this issue. BTW--there's several survey results on baiting already but there's no need to post them up.

[schuyler olt]

Placing the blame on the landowner won't cut it. It's not illegal to feed wildlife at this time. Nor could they be held responsible if someone besides themselves placed the bait.

Baiting will need to be defined and someone will have to decide what is considered bait--salt, mineral, corn, food plots, manipulation of food plots, etc.

Will it be OK to grow corn and bushhog it a few days before turkey season??

Sure to be a hit when it's time to take on this issue. BTW--there's several survey results on baiting already but there's no need to post them up.

I agree that placing the blame on landowners won't cut it. If you had a law which made placing bait on private property illegal, this is a status crime and, yes, the landowner could be held responsible. That's not good.

We already have the issue of defining what is bait and what is a "normal agricultural practice", and that is usually the thorny question in many baiting cases.

You're right, Tom. It will be a hit when it comes up.