Restoration of Gun privlidges

[kyfanatic]

This topic was brought up during a heated discussion over felons hunting,most agreed they had no problem with felons hunting after they had fully paid their debt to society and had no further problem.
The reason I'm bringing this up is due to what my brother (who passed away last year) went through,he was a decorated Vietnam vet,who was convicted of receiving stolen property ( bought tools off of local guys who claimed he was aware of the fact they were stolen to receive a lighter sentence).At anyrate he was never able to hunt with a gun again.
Just for the record,those of you who think that a convicted felon can hunt with a muzzleloader,you are wrong,it is still in violation of Federal and KY Gun Laws.
In 26 states felons full rights are restored with varying degrees of restrictions,an Attorney friend of mine from Covington,Ky Robert Lotz has unsucessfully tried to get a bill passed the last two years that would allow Class D Felons to have their Gun Rights restored after 10 years providing there are no further convictions of any type.I intend to try and get backing for this bill in honor of my brother and knowing the person he was and the pain he went through losing his favorite pasttime. mr Lotz's bill has made it through the House each time only to die in Senate.
I am not condoning handing guns to sex offenders,drug dealers,or violent offenders,only to the lowest ranking felony offenders that have made a one time mistake in their lives and as I feel shouldn't be punished forever,if they have done everything required of them and went 10 years without further incident.
I intend to get a copy of Robert Lotz's bill and signatures of supporters from around the state to pass to my State Representatives, anybody that has no qualms against this I would really appreciate your support.
Thankyou,
Glenn P.

[skin_dog1]

I'd say that most class d felons that maintain a spic and span record for 10 years could have their records expunged(sp?) anyway. I for one would support what you are talking about.

[maxcam]

I dont agree.....We all make decisions weither they be the right one or wrong one.....When weighing the options, the freedoms that we sometimes take for granted should remain forever in the front of our minds.....Sorry, while I appreciate your brothers service I dont believe that gives him an exemption from obeying the laws he fought to protect.....

[grouseguy]

I dont agree.....We all make decisions weither they be the right one or wrong one.....When weighing the options, the freedoms that we sometimes take for granted should remain forever in the front of our minds.....Sorry, while I appreciate your brothers service I dont believe that gives him an exemption from obeying the laws he fought to protect.....

Yeah but Max, he was a non-violent offender that paid his debt to society, and remained clean thereafter. Personally, I see no problem with him being able to excercise his 2nd amendment rights to own a firearm. In a very broad interpretation, I can see this as a form of double jeopardy where he continues to be punished long after his debt has been repaid.

BTW, I'm not argueing with you at all, just offering a different perspective.

[skin_dog1]

I dont agree.....We all make decisions weither they be the right one or wrong one.....When weighing the options, the freedoms that we sometimes take for granted should remain forever in the front of our minds.....Sorry, while I appreciate your brothers service I dont believe that gives him an exemption from obeying the laws he fought to protect.....Max, lets say you stop by the local flea market next week and buy a used gadget/gixmo which later turns out to be stolen. You're guilty of recieving stolen property and could be convicted just like his brother. There is a difference in a career criminal/violent felon and someone that makes a mistake or gets twisted up in something they knew nothing about. No system is perfect.

[C.L.Button]

In certain situations I would support someone getting their right to hunt with a firearm back. Each case should be judged on it's own merit. The law should be written that way, but probably won't be.

[KY_Fried]

I think taking firearm privlages away from felons is pointless. If they want to commit another crime using a gun the last thing that's going to stop them is some silly law saying they can't have one.
IMO if you've done your time you should be given all your rights back. If the person is still considered so much of a risk that he can't be trusted to own a gun then they shouldn't be out of jail to begin with.

[C.L.Button]

I think taking firearm privlages away from felons is pointless. If they want to commit another crime using a gun the last thing that's going to stop them is some silly law saying they can't have one.
IMO if you've done your time you should be given all your rights back. If the person is still considered so much of a risk that he can't be trusted to own a gun then they shouldn't be out of jail to begin with.

Good point. I agree

I guess they are trying to limit temptation ?

[harpp]

OK here is just a few class d felonies in the state of Kentucky

Rape 3rd degree
Sodemy 3rd degree
Sexual abuse 1st degree
Stalking 1st degree
Unlawful Imprisonment 1st degree
Assault 3rd degree
Assault of a family member
Criminal abuse 2nd degree
Receiving stolen property value more than 300 dollars, a firearm or anhydrous ammonia
Theft of identity


Where do you draw the line to reinstate their rights. A rapist?? A stalker?? An Abuser?? I agree with Maxcam on this one.

[Multidigits]

Their right to hunt is not stricken by any law that I'm aware of. They are restricted from possession of a firearm. It don't mean they can't still hunt.

[KY_Fried]

OK here is just a few class d felonies in the state of Kentucky

Rape 3rd degree
Sodemy 3rd degree
Sexual abuse 1st degree
Stalking 1st degree
Unlawful Imprisonment 1st degree
Assault 3rd degree
Assault of a family member
Criminal abuse 2nd degree
Receiving stolen property value more than 300 dollars, a firearm or anhydrous ammonia
Theft of identity


Where do you draw the line to reinstate their rights. A rapist?? A stalker?? An Abuser?? I agree with Maxcam on this one.

Like I said before, just because it's not legal for them to have one doesn't mean they're not going to get one if they want it. Do you really think a killer is going to say "I'd really like to kill that person but since I'm not allowed to have a gun I think I'll pass"? As for rapists, stalkers, abusers, ect. those types rairly use guns to commit their sick crimes to begin with so what good is it going to do to ban them from having guns?
IMO if your a free, legal American you should have the same rights as everybody else no matter what you've done in the past.

[corndogggy]

Yeah, I agree, the funny and sad part is that the guys we should be worried about are going to get their hands on a gun anyway, regardless of any bill.

[corndogggy]

I was just thinking, I feel like I grew up around these two guys from Georgia who were banned from using guns, they found interesting ways around that rule. :D

http://www.generalcarbuncle.com/gifs/boys.jpg

[gwhilikerz]

If a person is convicted of a felony, is sentenced to do time, and does his/her FULL time and isn't on parole when released they should be free to hunt like the rest of us. They paid their penalty. If they are paroled then it should be a part of the parole conditions as to whether they can hunt with a firearm. There is simply no way to regulate someone's future behavior. We are each responsible for our own actions. (My Opinion)

[maxcam]

My point is this....The law says that if you are convicted of a felony then you now longer have the privelage to posess a firearm.....What many are suggesting is ....Well he went to jail and did his time so let him have his privelage back....I dont agree....Part of his sentence is to never be able to posess a firearm again...That is just as important as the time served....Sorry that is how I see it....

As far as any hypotheticals are concerned Ill just say this.....If I was looking at time in prison and knew I was innocent I would never cut a deal......Period! Do innocent folks get sent to prison? Certainly......but those instances are the exception and not the norm....By undercutting what are already lack sentences we are eroding the moral fabric of this country.....Hell in this state you can pull a gun on someone and unless the guy being held at gun point can prove the gun is loaded it will be reduced from a felony charge to a misdemeanor......Sorry I am for stiffer penalties and more accountablility not less!

[gwhilikerz]

Good argument maxcam. You made a point that changed my opinion.
maxcam said ".Part of his sentence is to never be able to posess a firearm again...That is just as important as the time served....Sorry that is how I see it....". I had not thought about it in that way. I agree with you.

[buckfever]

Max, lets say you stop by the local flea market next week and buy a used gadget/gixmo which later turns out to be stolen. You're guilty of recieving stolen property and could be convicted just like his brother. There is a difference in a career criminal/violent felon and someone that makes a mistake or gets twisted up in something they knew nothing about. No system is perfect.

That's not a good analogy Skin, b/c the flea market shopper is not guilty of any crime. To be convicted of receiving stolen property, you have to know it's stolen. Unless I'm mistaken, I think it's also a misdemeanor.

Now, I don't know the story on this chap's brother, but every individual is presumed to know the law, and one law is that people who commit felonies cannot possess firearms.

I have no opinion about whether non-violent felons should have their firearm rights restored.

[kyfanatic]

Read this article =
http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/mediasources/20050518b

By the way here are some more Class D felony's that people should pay for the rest of their lives for =
Cruelty to Animals (which includes cruelty to cats such as shot by a hunter,or dogs shot running deer)
Chicken Fighting
Dog Fighting
Dumping garbage
3 DUI's in 10 years
Writing a Bad Check or theft by Deception
Failure to Remit Sales Tax (watch those internet purchases)
Stalking
Intentionally,Knowingly,or recklessly providing a gun to someone who commits a crime
Nepotism (wonder what politician isn't guilty in Ky?)
Hitting a service animal,Police dog or Horse
Promoting Gambling (haven't I saw some of you wagering on here or having card games?)
Failure to register a Motor Vehicle from out of state
Leaving a Child unattended in a motor vehicle (you and your wives better watch when "just running into the store")
Possesion of Drug Paraphenalia
Making a false statement on a form or application to State or Fed agency
Disclosure of confidential Info by a legislator (wonder how many ever get convicted of this?)
Misuse of Public trust (never happens in Ky right?)
Failure to pay Child support (while I despise people that don't care for their children,how does forever banning them from a decent job remedy the situation?)

I could look up thousands of these hideous crimes that people should FOREVER pay for commiting,but obviously it's a waste of time for some of you perfect folks. Although I disapprove of any crime,I also disapprove of punishing a person long after they have paid their debt for whatever they did wrong. I'm sure all of you are absolutely law abiding to a "T" never even came close to breaking any law,right?

[buckfever]

Read this article =
http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/mediasources/20050518b

By the way here are some more Class D felony's that people should pay for the rest of their lives for =
Cruelty to Animals (which includes cruelty to cats such as shot by a hunter,or dogs shot running deer)
Chicken Fighting
Dog Fighting
Dumping garbage
3 DUI's in 10 years
Writing a Bad Check or theft by Deception
Failure to Remit Sales Tax (watch those internet purchases)
Stalking
Intentionally,Knowingly,or recklessly providing a gun to someone who commits a crime
Nepotism (wonder what politician isn't guilty in Ky?)
Hitting a service animal,Police dog or Horse
Promoting Gambling (haven't I saw some of you wagering on here or having card games?)
Failure to register a Motor Vehicle from out of state
Leaving a Child unattended in a motor vehicle (you and your wives better watch when "just running into the store")
Possesion of Drug Paraphenalia
Making a false statement on a form or application to State or Fed agency
Disclosure of confidential Info by a legislator (wonder how many ever get convicted of this?)
Misuse of Public trust (never happens in Ky right?)
Failure to pay Child support (while I despise people that don't care for their children,how does forever banning them from a decent job remedy the situation?)

I could look up thousands of these hideous crimes that people should FOREVER pay for commiting,but obviously it's a waste of time for some of you perfect folks. Although I disapprove of any crime,I also disapprove of punishing a person long after they have paid their debt for whatever they did wrong. I'm sure all of you are absolutely law abiding to a "T" never even came close to breaking any law,right?

Kyfanatic - Not sure where you got that list, but it is not accurate.

[kyfanatic]

Kyfanatic - Not sure where you got that list, but it is not accurate.

Kentucky Revised statutes=
http://162.114.4.13/KRS/TITLES.HTM

Some charges may depend on the Degree which I didn't list but every offense can be a Class D Felony

[ryan hickey]

Yeah but Max, he was a non-violent offender that paid his debt to society, and remained clean thereafter. Personally, I see no problem with him being able to excercise his 2nd amendment rights to own a firearm. In a very broad interpretation, I can see this as a form of double jeopardy where he continues to be punished long after his debt has been repaid.

BTW, I'm not argueing with you at all, just offering a different perspective.

i'm witcha here gg. maybe restricting handgun rights is a better way? my $.02

[buckfever]

Kentucky Revised statutes=
http://162.114.4.13/KRS/TITLES.HTM

Some charges may depend on the Degree which I didn't list but every offense can be a Class D Felony

You disservice your argument by overstating things. Take gambling for instance. You commented that people on this forum wager from time to time. The probelm is that what you describe is not a Class D felony. To qualify as a felony, you have to do a helluva lot more than bet on the Super Bowl.

Other overstated examples include, nepotism and striking a service animals. I'm not sure what nepotism law you're referring to, but I'll bet there's a lot more than you suggest. As for the service animals, it is not a felony to strike a service animal, it is a felony to intentionally (and without justification) kill one or injure one to the extent it can't ever return to duty.

On a side note, I find it interesting that you included 3 DUI's. Just my opinion, but if that drunk doesn't have enough sense to either stop driving or stop drinking, I sure as hell don't want him to get his firearms back.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, here. I think you make some very good points. I just think your arguments loses some credibility when you overdo it.

Good luck on your efforts.

[kyfanatic]

Here is a summary of Gambling laws,technically if you and a couple buddies run a superbowl board that makes you $500 or more in a day,then you could be found guilty of promoting gambling in the 1st degree =
http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Kentucky/

As far as Nepotism = http://lrc.ky.gov/KRS/006-00/754.PDF
http://klec.ky.gov/code/Legislators/conduct.htm

depends on the severity of Ethical Misconduct,but some forms of it are a Class d Felony


I hurriedly wrote most of the original offenses,but ALL can be a Class D felony and many could be easily committed by any person in this state,there is actually a statute making a form of creative writing a Class D Felony.
What's the Bible say "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone"
I still say forever is a long time to be punished for some crimes.

[maxcam]

Here is a summary of Gambling laws,technically if you and a couple buddies run a superbowl board that makes you $500 or more in a day,then you could be found guilty of promoting gambling in the 1st degree =
http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Kentucky/

As far as Nepotism = http://lrc.ky.gov/KRS/006-00/754.PDF
http://klec.ky.gov/code/Legislators/conduct.htm

depends on the severity of Ethical Misconduct,but some forms of it are a Class d Felony


I hurriedly wrote most of the original offenses,but ALL can be a Class D felony and many could be easily committed by any person in this state,there is actually a statute making a form of creative writing a Class D Felony.
What's the Bible say "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone"
I still say forever is a long time to be punished for some crimes.

What you seem to be losing in your debate with me is that part of the sentence for the offense is to lose your gun previlages.....Now what are you going to propose the offender give up in place of loss of privelage....

Maybe extend their jail time by 5 years ?

[Rob]

kyfanatic,

I am sorry for your loss in the death of your brother. I'm sure he was a good guy. I also have a brother who served in 'Nam. While no saint, he is a good guy, too.

That being said, if the fear of losing the priviledge to leagally posess a firearm stops even one person from committing rape, robbery, abuse, whatever, then that law is worth it in my book. Some criminals may never consider that penalty but I'll bet a few might.

[kyfanatic]

What you seem to be losing in your debate with me is that part of the sentence for the offense is to lose your gun previlages.....Now what are you going to propose the offender give up in place of loss of privelage....

Maybe extend their jail time by 5 years ?

Why is punishment Forever? Most are NEVER able to get a decent job and makes it doubly hard to become a contributing member of society.
Do you honestly feel that every offense is serious enough to suffer for all times?

[buckfever]

kyfanatic,

I am sorry for your loss in the death of your brother. I'm sure he was a good guy. I also have a brother who served in 'Nam. While no saint, he is a good guy, too.

That being said, if the fear of losing the priviledge to leagally posess a firearm stops even one person from committing rape, robbery, abuse, whatever, then that law is worth it in my book. Some criminals may never consider that penalty but I'll bet a few might.

Rob - The problem I have with this argument is that, similar to what Kyfanatic is saying, society might actually be worse off in the long run by depriving all non-violent felons of their right to possess firearms. For example, suppose 10 people's lives are saved b/c some felons (whose gun rights were restored) acutally used the positive influence of hunting to turn their lives around instead of getting more heavily involved in criminal activity. Is that not worth the 1 life that is sacrificed when those rights are denied. I guess a good analogy is the 55 mph speed limit. We knew more people are going to die by raising it to 65 mph, but it was in society's best interest to sacrifice those few to benefit the many.

I don't know the answer to any of this, and don't really have an opinion. I definitely don't think restoration should apply to violent/drug related felons, but I'm kind of on the fence about non-violent crimes. After all, the reason for denying them that right in the first place is that they would have a higher propensity to use a firearm for an illegal purpose. It may depend on the crime. I'm sure there are some non-violent crimes out there where gun rights could/should be restored, but there are probably a few out there that I'd rather err on the side of no restoration of rights.

[buckfever]

kyfanatic - I still didn't see where nepotism was felony?????

[Rob]

buckfever,

You have a valid argument. However, I think you would agree that a convicted felon is probably more likely to commit a felony that someone who is not a convicted felon. From what I have read, certain types of felonies have an especially high recidivism rate. Several of the crimes in this category are violent/drug-related crimes. I feel expecially strongly about keeping guns out of the hands of this criminal segment. My belief is that we need more stringent, not more lenient, penalties for crime. We also need to spend less, not more, tax dollars on criminals. Criminals need to be held responsible for what they do to society, not the converse.

[maxcam]

Why is punishment Forever? Most are NEVER able to get a decent job and makes it doubly hard to become a contributing member of society.
Do you honestly feel that every offense is serious enough to suffer for all times?

Have you ever stopped to think of the suffering by those victims that the crimes were committed against.....Do you not think that those people dont carry those memories and scares around with them forever?

I asked you to explain what you thought was fare trade in exchange for resumption of gun ownership.....You dont seem to be interested in trading which tells me you dont believe that felony convictions should be dealt with so harshly........Be genuine and sincere and your arguement will carry more weight......The fact is when someone committs a crime they have to be willing to do the time.....If they cant then they should make a different decision and not break the law......

[kyfanatic]

Have you ever stopped to think of the suffering by those victims that the crimes were committed against.....Do you not think that those people dont carry those memories and scares around with them forever?

I asked you to explain what you thought was fare trade in exchange for resumption of gun ownership.....You dont seem to be interested in trading which tells me you dont believe that felony convictions should be dealt with so harshly........Be genuine and sincere and your arguement will carry more weight......The fact is when someone committs a crime they have to be willing to do the time.....If they cant then they should make a different decision and not break the law......

Never once did I say that I condoned breaking the law,The proposed bill is for NON VIOLENT OFFENDERS THAT HAVE SERVED THEIR TIME,PAID FINES AND OR RESTITUTION,AND NOT HAD ANY FURTHER OFFENSES OF ANY KIND FOR 10 YEARS. You guys seem to confuse VIOLENT OFFENDERS with the lowest class Felony's. It's as if the word Felony absolutely means Murderer,Rapist,Sex Offender,this is not so! Most of these crimes were misdemeanors until recently
Now tell me why any person who makes a mistake that any of you could easily make,Should be punished FOREVER? What more should someone do to appease your bloodlust? This bill is NOT FOR REPEAT OFFENDERS,why would a criminal serve his time and wait 10 years to get his gun rights back only to commit a firearms crime? If some slimeball wants to commit a serious crime they will not wait TEN YEARS TO GET A GUN!!!

You must mean a to make decisions like The President of The USA and Kentucky's Governor Right?

[kyfanatic]

kyfanatic,

I am sorry for your loss in the death of your brother. I'm sure he was a good guy. I also have a brother who served in 'Nam. While no saint, he is a good guy, too.

That being said, if the fear of losing the priviledge to leagally posess a firearm stops even one person from committing rape, robbery, abuse, whatever, then that law is worth it in my book. Some criminals may never consider that penalty but I'll bet a few might.

Rob,read my previous post.This proposed bill is for NON-VIOLENT OFFENDERS,NON-REPEAT OFFENDERS,LOWEST POSSIBLE CLASS OF FELONY OFFENDERS WHO HAVE PAID THEIR DEBT FULLY IN EVERY WAY,THEN WENT TEN YEARS WITHOUT ANY FURTHER INCIDENT OF ANY TYPE.

Let's just get a lynch rope out for every person who's made a mistake in their life,it would be far more humane than being punished everyday of your entire life.

[quackrstackr]

kyfanatic,

you asked for opinions, these guys are giving theirs. No need in going off the deep end when theirs doesn't align with yours. I understand your personal feelings toward what you are trying to do, but you know there are two sides to every coin.

Losing the right to posess a firearm is part of the deal when convicted of a felony. I'm sure there are several people convicted of a felony that never do anything like that again.. but on the flip side I bet there are a lot that do too. At the very least, they have already shown a predisposition to break the law and may do so in the future. In today's world, good luck getting this through. I can only imagine the court case that would result when a previously convicted felon committed a heinous gun crime 11 years after his "debt was paid" with his legally owned firearm.

[gwhilikerz]

kyfanatic,

you asked for opinions, these guys are giving theirs. No need in going off the deep end when theirs doesn't align with yours. I understand your personal feelings toward what you are trying to do, but you know there are two sides to every coin.

Losing the right to posess a firearm is part of the deal when convicted of a felony. I'm sure there are several people convicted of a felony that never do anything like that again.. but on the flip side I bet there are a lot that do too. At the very least, they have already shown a predisposition to break the law and may do so in the future. In today's world, good luck getting this through. I can only imagine the court case that would result when a previously convicted felon committed a heinous gun crime 11 years after his "debt was paid" with his legally owned firearm.

Yep, there would be a big push to "eliminate guns from society once and for all". Then where would we be?

[maxcam]

There is an old Vulcan proverb that goes something like this......

The needs of the few, are out weighted by the needs of the many......

[kyfanatic]

There is an old Vulcan proverb that goes something like this......

The needs of the few, are out weighted by the needs of the many......

That one must be BS because today's society and politics seem hell bent on appeasing the minorities.

Now we'll have several million "illegal immigrants" turned into legal citizens that can get on welfare and foodstamps to join the other bloodsuckers.

[kyfanatic]

kyfanatic,

you asked for opinions, these guys are giving theirs. No need in going off the deep end when theirs doesn't align with yours. I understand your personal feelings toward what you are trying to do, but you know there are two sides to every coin.

Losing the right to posess a firearm is part of the deal when convicted of a felony. I'm sure there are several people convicted of a felony that never do anything like that again.. but on the flip side I bet there are a lot that do too. At the very least, they have already shown a predisposition to break the law and may do so in the future. In today's world, good luck getting this through. I can only imagine the court case that would result when a previously convicted felon committed a heinous gun crime 11 years after his "debt was paid" with his legally owned firearm.

Yep,I'm sure somebody would wait 12 years to legally own a gun and commit a crime with it.It's just so hard for anybody to get a gun.Maybe showing that some former law breakers are responsible would do more for Gun Rights than banishing the world.

Yes,there are two sides to every coin,let's hope none of you find yourselves wearing the other sides shoes.

[buckfever]

That one must be BS because today's society and politics seem hell bent on appeasing the minorities.

Now we'll have several million "illegal immigrants" turned into legal citizens that can get on welfare and foodstamps to join the other bloodsuckers.

Kyfanatic - I know you feel strongly about this issue, b/c of what occurred with your brother. If all felons turned their act around the way your brother did, we probably wouldn't even be debating this.

It's a little ironic, however, that you ask people to be so progressive in their attitudes toward convicted felons, while at the same time lambasting illegal immigrants as bloodsuckers.

[kyfanatic]

Kyfanatic - I know you feel strongly about this issue, b/c of what occurred with your brother. If all felons turned their act around the way your brother did, we probably wouldn't even be debating this.

It's a little ironic, however, that you ask people to be so progressive in their attitudes toward convicted felons, while at the same time lambasting illegal immigrants as bloodsuckers.

I despise Criminals as much as the rest of you seem to,what none of you seem to realize is there is a difference between types of offenders and offenses.
With the constant overcrowding of jails and prisons,the cost burden placed on legal taxpayers like you and I, The fact that by forcing these Non-Violent one time offenders to be forever exiled as a complete part of society gives them what incentive to not return to crime? Maybe the inability to get a decent job because of their past? I'm sure that helps,or never having your full constitutional rights returned after paying your debt to society?
Yet,folks like you seem to think it's okay that 12 million people many worse criminals than the ones we speak can ILLEGALLY invade the sanctity of our Nations border (which is a crime) with NO Penalty.Wonder how many of them will fight in our nations defense?

You know when the United States of America was formed this countries Founding Fathers raided British ships and destroyed British property,so i guess they were technically Felons that should never have had a gun ,right?
Nobody has gave me a real reason Why a person who has paid his debt in all ways possible,should be punished daily for the rest of their lives?

It's pretty obvious to me that the current system does not deter repeat offenders,sometimes changes that appear to be wrong are right.

[harpp]

Nobody has gave me a real reason Why a person who has paid his debt in all ways possible,should be punished daily for the rest of their lives?


I thank a couple of people have given you a reason. According to the laws of this country he has not paid his debt in all ways possible. part of his debt is his right to own a firearm.

[maxcam]

Nobody has gave me a real reason Why a person who has paid his debt in all ways possible,should be punished daily for the rest of their lives?


You dont seem to understand that part of the offenders debt to society includes a life long ban of 2nd amendment rights!

[Multidigits]

I don't see anything in the 2nd Admendment about felons....can you cut and paste it here for us?

[kyfanatic]

This is not the 2nd amendment itself but a listing of the 2nd amendment precedence's widely accepted by most courts and jurisdictions,none of these are permanant or an actual part of the Bill of Rights.

Current Judicial Precedence

At present, with certain exceptions and disputes, the courts generally find it acceptable under the Second Amendment for federal, state and local juridictions to:

* Regulate or not regulate militias
* Enact, or not enact, child-safety lock legislation
* Ban or permit handgun possession
* Regulate or not regulate handgun possession
* Prohibit or allow the carrying of concealed firearms and/or weapons
* Regulate or not regulate the carrying of concealed firearms and/or weapons
* Ban or permit assault weapons
* Prohibit posession of firearms by persons who have been:

1. Involuntarily committed to a mental institution
2. Convicted of a felony
3. Convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence [53][54] or not, as in one jurisdiction the Gun Ban for Individuals Convicted of a Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence law was ruled a violation of the 2nd and 5th Amendments and was ruled unconstitutional for two years [55] though that decision was reversed on appeal[56] and the Supreme Court has not granted certiorari
4. Convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence and in the military, and being unable as a soldier in uniform to handle any weapons, although per Department of Defense policy, crew-served weapons such as tanks, missiles, and aircraft are exempt from the Gun Ban for Individuals Convicted of a Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence law and may be handled or used by a soldier previously-convicted of a crime of domestic violence [57] despite the same individual not being allowed to handle or use a pistol. For additional information see Department of Justice publication CRM 1117.
5. Dishonorably discharged from the military

* Require the licensing of firearms dealers
* Ban or regulate bombs, artillery, and explosives
* Require or not require the registration of firearms
* Ban or permit the possession of firearms and ammunition on county-owned property
* Ban or not ban the possession of weapons of any kind on Federal property (Although weapons are generally banned on most Federal property, National Parks in some parts of Alaska encourage hikers to carry firearms for protection against wild animals.[58],[59])
* Prohibit firearm possession anywhere in licensed liquor establishments, or to prohibit firearm possessions only in the bar areas of some businesses, or to permit the carry of concealed weapons in any facility other than Federal facilities
* Require or not require handgun owner identification cards
* Require or not require the presentation of identification prior to buying ammunition
* Ban or permit ballistic fingerprinting databases

These precedences are variable and are generally not settled[60], and are mostly permitted to be ruled according to local law, as the Federal District courts have not ruled unformly either for and against various forms of several of these provisions, and the Supreme Court has not yet ruled uniformly. Although the courts permit laws and regulations as itemized above, that is not meant to imply that all jurisdictions have these laws, as they do not. For example, most jurisdictions do not require handgun owner identification cards, nor do they require the presentation of any identification to buy ammunition.

26 States return ALL RIGHTS TO FELONS after completing their sentence.

[kyfanatic]

Here is the 2nd Amendment to the Bill of Rights =
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=177

I do not see anything about a Felon here.