Do not be fooled.

[Wildcat]

Do not be fooled by the illegal immigrants protests not waving the Mexican flag, they all were told NOT to bring them and leave them at home.

That waving of the Mexican flag over the United States soil told the truth about them. They KNOW it hurt their cause by showing the truth. They were told to only bring a United States flag.

http://home.bellsouth.net/s/editorial.dll?fromspage=cg/news/ne_details.htm&categoryid=&only=y&bfromind=847&eeid=4917906&_sitecat=1522&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=2&ck=&ch=n e

There were protests all over American yesterday and more planed today. Several of them will be in Tennessee today. On May 1, 2006 will be a day of boycott for them of all American schools and business. They want to show THEIR POWER over the American people. If you are planing to buy something wait until May 1st to counter the boycott. Go out to eat that day, go to a movie, just spend money that day instead of the weekend before.

[Art]

They are having a big rally today in Lexington. I could care less if they allow them to stay, but they need to pay taxes and health insurance... As long as it doesn't cost me extra money by having them here then they are welcome in my book. I know lots of good Mexican families in my area. That's probably an unpopular statement, but that's just how I feel after living and working around them for years.

[Wildcat]

I have no problem with immigrants as long as they are here though proper LEGAL channels.

It's the ILLEGAL immigrants I have a problem with.

[lymanl3]

I have no problem with immigrants as long as they are here though proper LEGAL channels.

It's the ILLEGAL immigrants I have a problem with.

I agree with LEGAL channels......taxes, etc. Note...if an illegal immigrant has a child in U.S, that child is automatically a citizen and has rights to all benefits just like every other child born to a legal tax PAYING citizen.

Lyman

[Multidigits]

Sounds like a good time and place to check for green cards????

[quackrstackr]

They made an interesting observation on the radio this morning.

It has been said that removing the illegals will have an adverse impact on the US economy... yet they have been protesting all over the US for a couple of weeks now.. meaning that millions of them haven't been working. Has the economy come to a grinding halt? Has it even made a blip on the radar?

Mexicans wants to flood into this country and turn it into Mexico.... the very country they are fleeing from in the first place. Think about it. ;)

[jarhedhntr]

I agree with LEGAL channels......taxes, etc. Note...if an illegal immigrant has a child in U.S, that child is automatically a citizen and has rights to all benefits just like every other child born to a legal tax PAYING citizen.

Lyman

I forget which show I was watching Sunday but they said that the beginning of this law was for freed slaves. that it just got moved into natural born citizens. I don't have a problem with someone coming to this country and working to become a citizen. But I can't stand it when they come with their hands out and mouths open. We have plenty of lazy ass people without allowing more to come and drain our economy. They say they do jobs that americans won't. American used to, but when it became cheaper to pay a mexican, americans refused to do it and the illegals to the jobs. This country was full of americans working in the fields to earn a living. Now you couldn't get me in the field, they don't pay enough to make it worth my time.

[kyfanatic]

I'm just curious as to how these immigrants are so wonderful,yet you look at every state and local MOST WANTED LIST and an overwhelming percentage of criminals are Hispanic =http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/USA3rdworldimmi.htm
http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/kywanted.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/fugitives.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/vc/murders/vc_murders.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/cei/fug_cei.htm

http://www.crime-stoppers.us/index.php?page=tristate&news=no&offset=4#364

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/iofcjs00.htm

http://www.vpc.org/studies/hispexec.htm

http://www.sentencingproject.org/pdfs/1051.pdf

[Art]

I'm just curious as to how these immigrants are so wonderful,yet you look at every state and local MOST WANTED LIST and an overwhelming percentage of criminals are Hispanic =http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/USA3rdworldimmi.htm
http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/kywanted.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/fugitives.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/vc/murders/vc_murders.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/cei/fug_cei.htm

http://www.crime-stoppers.us/index.php?page=tristate&news=no&offset=4#364

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/iofcjs00.htm

http://www.vpc.org/studies/hispexec.htm

http://www.sentencingproject.org/pdfs/1051.pdf

Just because they have Spanish names doesn't mean they are Mexican. Basically they could be from ANY country below the US. The two I looked up were from Columbia.

I live 2 miles from what is probably the largest Hispanic community in the state and I would much rather walk through there at midnight as opposed to a trailer park full of meth addicted welfare white people or a housing project in the slums full of welfare blacks . A majority of Mexicans do not want to stay here, they want to work and go back.. I guarantee you it's a whole lot easier to find a no good lazy white bum sucking the system then it is to find a lazy Mexican.

[PhilpotHunter]

I guarantee you it's a whole lot easier to find a no good lazy white bum sucking the system then it is to find a lazy Mexican.

I disagree, but I already no from past experience nothing will change your mind:D

[Kentuck]

I saw this quote over on another website and totally agree with it. Thought I would share it here.

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." (Theodore Roosevelt 1907).

[jarhedhntr]

I saw this quote over on another website and totally agree with it. Thought I would share it here.

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." (Theodore Roosevelt 1907).

If that doesn't sum up every feeling I have on the issue. That is as well said as I have heard.

[Art]

I disagree, but I already no from past experience nothing will change your mind:D

Maybe I need to move to Philpot!

[trust me]

The only Mexicans I see in my neck of the woods are working tobacco, picking up garbage, or doing some other worthwhile labor. All i've dealt with were hard-workers that were sending money home to keep up the family.

The lazy unemployed professional sponges i deal with daily are all good old-fashioned white folk. The only effort some of these folks put out will be to drag themselves to the doctor's office to get some pills or down to a gov't office to get on the dole.

It's also absolutely amazing how a "hunnerd percent total disabled" person can ride a 4 wheeler hundreds of miles each week, hunt deer and turkey every legal day and some besides, but still can't work up the gumption to work an honest job.

Mexicans are the least of our worries.

[jarhedhntr]

The only Mexicans I see in my neck of the woods are working tobacco, picking up garbage, or doing some other worthwhile labor. All i've dealt with were hard-workers that were sending money home to keep up the family.

The lazy unemployed professional sponges i deal with daily are all good old-fashioned white folk. The only effort some of these folks put out will be to drag themselves to the doctor's office to get some pills or down to a gov't office to get on the dole.

It's also absolutely amazing how a "hunnerd percent total disabled" person can ride a 4 wheeler hundreds of miles each week, hunt deer and turkey every legal day and some besides, but still can't work up the gumption to work an honest job.

Mexicans are the least of our worries.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of bums already here and plenty to be reformed in that area. But although there maybe some that are working in this area, go to southern california, arizona, texas, new mexico and tell me how many there are that are working. When I lived in So Cal it was unreal how they come across illegally and then work untaxed and still collect welfare. I'm trying not to generalize all Mexicans but as we all know, a few bad apples will ruin the whole bushel.

[kyfanatic]

The only Mexicans I see in my neck of the woods are working tobacco, picking up garbage, or doing some other worthwhile labor. All i've dealt with were hard-workers that were sending money home to keep up the family.

The lazy unemployed professional sponges i deal with daily are all good old-fashioned white folk. The only effort some of these folks put out will be to drag themselves to the doctor's office to get some pills or down to a gov't office to get on the dole.

It's also absolutely amazing how a "hunnerd percent total disabled" person can ride a 4 wheeler hundreds of miles each week, hunt deer and turkey every legal day and some besides, but still can't work up the gumption to work an honest job.

Mexicans are the least of our worries.

Problem is you don't live in a highly hispanic populated area,come up one weekend and we'll hunt a little,then I'll show you around the Hispanic community and all the scams,networks,and illegal activities they have going on.I'm only familiar with this because I know a former employee who is also a "coyote" (human smuggler) and smuggler of other things into this country.
You might be amazed at what really goes on.

ART,I said "Hispanic" not "Mexican" that refers to any Spanish speaking country,I originally posted the Teddy Roosevelt quote here on this board on my last go around about the 11 MILLON ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and growing in this country.

[Art]

Problem is you don't live in a highly hispanic populated area,come up one weekend and we'll hunt a little,then I'll show you around the Hispanic community and all the scams,networks,and illegal activities they have going on.I'm only familiar with this because I know a former employee who is also a "coyote" (human smuggler) and smuggler of other things into this country.
You might be amazed at what really goes on.

ART,I said "Hispanic" not "Mexican" that refers to any Spanish speaking country,I originally posted the Teddy Roosevelt quote here on this board on my last go around about the 11 MILLON ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and growing in this country.

Well, let's be honest here. We are talking about Mexicans. I seriously doubt you have too many people from Peru or Panama up your way.. All I can say is this.... I would be willing to bet that if you were to take a cross section of low income individuals in this country and ranked them on crime, drug use, lazyness, ect...Mexicans would finish way on down the list behind whites and blacks.

Like I said, I live 2 miles away from probably the largest Hispanic area in the state, probably more Hispanics there then the entire county populations for some of you. I deal with them on a regular basis and know many of them..

Nobody is gonna convince me that they are bad people to have here. If us Americans were willing to get our hands dirty and work our asses off at a low paying job that requires HARD work then they wouldn't be here in the first place. I'd bet anything if we were to take welfare away and make all the lazy Americans get off their pompus asses and work then all the Mexicans would have to leave because there would be a work shortage overnight.;)

[PhilpotHunter]

If us Americans were willing to get our hands dirty and work our asses off at a low paying job that requires HARD work then they wouldn't be here in the first place.

Think about this....When I was 15 I made about 10-15 an hour working in the tobacco fields. Thats good pay, but as anyone on here that has worked tobacco can tell you, its hard work.

Now lets go to current time. I know a man that just last season tried to get a job cutting and spiking tobacco. Strong healthy man(american citizen) needing work BAD, wanted to work in the fields, but was told no. The reason the farmer gave him?
"I only hires mexicans because they will work for peanuts."

I'm pretty sure by "peanuts" he didn't mean minimum wage either. This is a LARGE scale farming operation in Daviess county. The farmer gets workers with no rights for next to nothing, all(or most) of the money that used to be staying in the economy is now going to Mexico, and the american citizen that tried to get a job couldn't.

:rolleyes: Must have been because he was a lazy slob and didn't deserve to work with all the upstanding ILLEGAL immigrants.:cool:

[Art]

Think about this....When I was 15 I made about 10-15 an hour working in the tobacco fields. Thats good pay, but as anyone on here that has worked tobacco can tell you, its hard work.

Now lets go to current time. I know a man that just last season tried to get a job cutting and spiking tobacco. Strong healthy man(american citizen) needing work BAD, wanted to work in the fields, but was told no. The reason the farmer gave him?
"I only hires mexicans because they will work for peanuts."

I'm pretty sure by "peanuts" he didn't mean minimum wage either. This is a LARGE scale farming operation in Daviess county. The farmer gets workers with no rights for next to nothing, all(or most) of the money that used to be staying in the economy is now going to Mexico, and the american citizen that tried to get a job couldn't.

:rolleyes: Must have been because he was a lazy slob and didn't deserve to work with all the upstanding ILLEGAL immigrants.:cool:

What would you do if you owned a farm? Would you pay someone $15 an hr when you could get the same work done for $7/hr? That's the pricipal that this country is built on.

That is just one example of one man at one farm and Tobacco is dead anyhow. I know for a fact that if anyone feels the need to work in tobacco, shovel horse crap, or mow and weedeat then I can hook you up with a job TODAY.:cool: I know because I did all those things when I was younger and I worked right along side Mexicans.

The REAL issue is that it is just flat out hard work and the pay is bad. I dare you to go find a highschool kid and tell him to shovel horse crap all day for minimum wage and work a 48 hr farm work week... Ain't happenin' around here, I can tell you that.

[bcdh1]

Sounds like a good time and place to check for green cards????

I agree. Catch them when they are not thinking. They should go through and check them all at these rallys and keep the ones who uphold the law and send the others back.

[turk2di]

No comment!

[john4]

'What would you do if you owned a farm? Would you pay someone $15 an hr when you could get the same work done for $7/hr? That's the pricipal that this country is built on."

That's what I want, a permenent underclass of people I can exploit forever.

The same concept is true for skilled labor mind you, Mexicans (AND Panamanians, Equadorians, Nicaraguans, etc) know skilled jobs as well. Won't it be great when you can get a skilled electrician to wire your house for $7 an hour. What do you do for a living? I bet there is someone out there willing to do it for half of what you are being paid. Oh and yeah, hope you speak Spanish. I interviewed for a job once and was asked if I spoke Spanish, I replied "No, but I teach English well".

There are reasons why we have limits set on our Immigration.

If we continue on our present path, we will pay more in taxes and earn less $$ as a whole as a direct result of this immigrant invasion.

[KYHUNTER14]

"The REAL issue is that it is just flat out hard work and the pay is bad. "


Art,

Why is the pay bad? Would the pay be as bad if we shipped the illegal aliens back wherever they came from?


Think about it, a hundred years ago Americans worked the same farms. The hispanics came here and for the most part undercut the people who worked these farms. Hispanics work hard, there is no denying that, so do scabs who cross the picket lines.

[KYHUNTER14]

I should also add that in my younger days I worked tobacco around Stanton and Campton and met some good people both white and hispanic.

I also should say that simply taking these illegal immigrants back to wherever wont solve the problem. I think alot white folks would do the work that the hispanics do, but I also think that many use this type of situation as a reason not to work.

I can see both sides of the issue, but it there is much more to it than white people being pompous and lazy.

[kyfanatic]

I love these arguements that Hispanics only take the jobs that Caucasions don't want,They may do some menial jobs that most Americans couldn't support a family on (can you support a family on minimum wage?),but they damn sure take jjobs that LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS do want. I just went to a recruiting session for Norfolk Southern Railroad,mostly because Mexicans have ruined my carpentry business by working for change,the problem is they slap houses and condos together so shoddily that I'm tempted to bring it out publicly even if it hurts builders and the housing industry,I wouldn't pay $200,000 for a house built like crap.Anyway there was 50 Hispanics (Illegals included) at the railroad recruiting session,the railroad will hire them if the can get a sponsor and green card,I guess NO LEGAL AMERICAN wants that job? The Hispanics are taking over the manufacturing jobs in Northern KY,but I guess NO LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZEN wants those jobs? The Coal Mines in Eastern KY are trying to bring in cheap Hispanic labor to take away the only decent paying jobs in that part of the state,but again NO LEGAL AMERICAN want those jobs?
They are lawbreakers to start with by ILLEGALLY entering this country,why should my kid be forced to learn Spanish? Force these criminals to learn English.
By the way I know Mexicans,Guatamaleans,Panamanians,El Salvadorians,Peruvians,and several varieties of Islander Hispanics.I know very well their system of beating our system and using your and my Tax Dollar to do it,If they are so wonderful,THEN WHY ARE THEIR COUNTRIES IN SHAMBLES? They have the same resources as us,just no honest among them.

[Art]

I love these arguements that Hispanics only take the jobs that Caucasions don't want,They may do some menial jobs that most Americans couldn't support a family on (can you support a family on minimum wage?),but they damn sure take jjobs that LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS do want. I just went to a recruiting session for Norfolk Southern Railroad,mostly because Mexicans have ruined my carpentry business by working for change,the problem is they slap houses and condos together so shoddily that I'm tempted to bring it out publicly even if it hurts builders and the housing industry,I wouldn't pay $200,000 for a house built like crap.Anyway there was 50 Hispanics (Illegals included) at the railroad recruiting session,the railroad will hire them if the can get a sponsor and green card,I guess NO LEGAL AMERICAN wants that job? The Hispanics are taking over the manufacturing jobs in Northern KY,but I guess NO LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZEN wants those jobs? The Coal Mines in Eastern KY are trying to bring in cheap Hispanic labor to take away the only decent paying jobs in that part of the state,but again NO LEGAL AMERICAN want those jobs?
They are lawbreakers to start with by ILLEGALLY entering this country,why should my kid be forced to learn Spanish? Force these criminals to learn English.
By the way I know Mexicans,Guatamaleans,Panamanians,El Salvadorians,Peruvians,and several varieties of Islander Hispanics.I know very well their system of beating our system and using your and my Tax Dollar to do it,If they are so wonderful,THEN WHY ARE THEIR COUNTRIES IN SHAMBLES? They have the same resources as us,just no honest among them.

I don't understand how you guys can sit here and preach about America and how great it is and then turn around and piss on the pricipals that the country was built on..:confused:

There is a legitimate argument here, but I'm not hearing it. With all due respect all I'm hearing in this thread in general is mostly racist, ethnocentric, stereotypical BS (not from anyone in particular, just in general).. It makes no sense at all to me.

KYfanatic, if you have evidence of poor, "shoddy" , illegal work and you know criminal activity is occuring then why are you not reporting it? How are they "forcing" your kids to speak Spanish?

All I can say is that it's hard to make a broad generalized statement about a situation as it effects an entire country based on one or two "I've seen this before" accounts.

I dare anyone to prove that Americans cannot find work because Hispanics are "stealing" our jobs. I'll send you two entire pages from the Herald Leader and 100+ pages from careerbuilder.com of jobs that need a workers and are having trouble finding them.

[Art]

'What would you do if you owned a farm? Would you pay someone $15 an hr when you could get the same work done for $7/hr? That's the pricipal that this country is built on."

That's what I want, a permenent underclass of people I can exploit forever.

The same concept is true for skilled labor mind you, Mexicans (AND Panamanians, Equadorians, Nicaraguans, etc) know skilled jobs as well. Won't it be great when you can get a skilled electrician to wire your house for $7 an hour. What do you do for a living? I bet there is someone out there willing to do it for half of what you are being paid. Oh and yeah, hope you speak Spanish. I interviewed for a job once and was asked if I spoke Spanish, I replied "No, but I teach English well".

There are reasons why we have limits set on our Immigration.

If we continue on our present path, we will pay more in taxes and earn less $$ as a whole as a direct result of this immigrant invasion.

How are they being exploited if they WANT to do it? They are not being forced to work..

[KYBOY]

I have no problem with immigrants as long as they are here though proper LEGAL channels.

It's the ILLEGAL immigrants I have a problem with.

Straight up, I dont have a problem with legal immegrants either. Heres something to chew on. It cost you the tax payers 60,000 a year to house a fed max security inmate. Would anyone like to know how many are illegal immegrants? Not to mention cubians we house for life cause we cant send them back:confused: The figures are staggering. We pay billions for our own inmates and millions upon millions more for everyone elses. MY friends not all are hard working good people. Many, many illegal immegrants are in jails and prisons. Ive worked for three different correctional systems and all were full of illegals. They spend thier terms get sent back then come back and commit more crimes. Like I said legal immegrants are fine, but with all those illegals were getting most of thier crooks to. Yea I know we have enough crooks of our own. Thats my point we dont need anymore.

[Art]

I'm not sticking up for illegals either. I just don't think it's fair to lable the group as a whole as bad people who are just out to scam us and take our jobs.

There are bad apples in every bunch but I personally think humans need to be dealt with on a per person basis and not lumped together because of where they are from.

[Wildcat]

I'm not sticking up for illegals either. I just don't think it's fair to lable the group as a whole as bad people who are just out to scam us and take our jobs.

There are bad apples in every bunch but I personally think humans need to be dealt with on a per person basis and not lumped together because of where they are from.

I have no problem with that. But Art go though that place you keep talking about and point out the ILLEGALS to the police then everybody left there are legal and can become American citizens. In other words clean out the house before calling others dirty.

I'm sure they are hard working people trying to make a living and I personaly know several of them and they fit right in that group. The ones I know are LEGAL and have the pepers to prove it.

When someone crosses the boarder ILLEGALY then he's already broken US law, why should we ever bother to support him since he has already PROVEN he will thump his nose at United States laws.

[Wildcat]

Something else I just saw on the news. I was watching Fox and Friends while ago and they reported that at several of the rallies Sunday and Monday the democrat party had set up several voter registration booths. They were registering voters as democrats and more than a few were illegal aliens.

[Art]

I have no problem with that. But Art go though that place you keep talking about and point out the ILLEGALS to the police then everybody left there are legal and can become American citizens. In other words clean out the house before calling others dirty.

I'm sure they are hard working people trying to make a living and I personaly know several of them and they fit right in that group. The ones I know are LEGAL and have the pepers to prove it.

When someone crosses the boarder ILLEGALY then he's already broken US law, why should we ever bother to support him since he has already PROVEN he will thump his nose at United States laws.

I don't see any reason for me to check their status. Thats not my job. If the govt. wants to pay me to do spot checks then I'll do it. I'm only concerned with taking responsibility for myself. That's kind of what America is all about, the ability to make or break yourself on your own.

I don't want illegals here more than anyone else, but it just doesn't make me angry I guess.

Is anyone here as concerned with immigrants from Canada and China as they are the ones from Mexico?

[hillhntr]

I think there is a lot of grey area here with this issue. Where is the accountability for the hiring agents/business owners who seek out the clearly illegal workers so that they can pay them insanely low wages? I would probably be angry with both. Is the person offering the job, or the person accepting this job more guilty? On the macro level, big time companies are still going to keep moving their factories to third world countries because of the cheap labor, regardless of who is left here to work (No, I am not for illegal immigration, but agree with everyone else on here). Something should be done about illegal immigration of people from all places, but I'm not so sure that will be some easy fix for whatever ails our economy.

[Multidigits]

This IS a hunting/fishing message board......so don't forget that some of these legal or illegal farm workers are most likely hunting and fishing Ky. without buying any licenses or tags.

[Art]

This IS a hunting/fishing message board......so don't forget that some of these legal or illegal farm workers are most likely hunting and fishing Ky. without buying any licenses or tags.

That probably ranks in at about # 25 on ways in which our wildlife/ state is being taken advantage of. I would think that the number of deer poached by KY residents is at least 500 deer to every deer an illegal immigrant kills.

[Highbow]

Nothing is done with them if they are caught without a license most of the time, the illegals seem to have much more going for them than the working force average white man.
I think it is wrong to allow them to come into USA and get jobs at low wages that would pay a decent amount if they had to hire the americans to work it.
Much of the material I buy for the power company is being made in Brazil, China, Mexico but not by my choice. The American companies are farming out of the country , jobs that our own government has made it to hard to operate.
There are too many people worried about the criminals rights, saving a fat hen , or a tree that is going to be used to build a home than worried about what jobs will feed our children. Too much fighting over things of little concern and too much wasteon major items.

[Art]

Nothing is done with them if they are caught without a license most of the time, the illegals seem to have much more going for them than the working force average white man.
I think it is wrong to allow them to come into USA and get jobs at low wages that would pay a decent amount if they had to hire the americans to work it.
Much of the material I buy for the power company is being made in Brazil, China, Mexico but not by my choice. The American companies are farming out of the country , jobs that our own government has made it to hard to operate.
There are too many people worried about the criminals rights, saving a fat hen , or a tree that is going to be used to build a home than worried about what jobs will feed our children. Too much fighting over things of little concern and too much wasteon major items.

This is true. The blame shouldn't fall on the worker though. American companies are taking jobs to other countries for a whole host of reasons, mostly greed. The thing is that a lot of the products we buy that are made in other countries would not exist if they had to be made in America. Many businesses are only still IN business because the cheap labor affords them to ability to stay in business.

If you have a company that makes a widget:D in the US and it has to obide by all federal guidelines then it becomes much more expensive to operate and profit margins shrink. That would sink many businesses and would also make the price of many of our ordinary everyday items skyrocket..

[Monster-Chaser]

Great point Multi!!!

Has anyone been through Shelbyville lately? Wow, I would rival the Hispanic population there to any place in the state. This is a touchy subject for me. My bro's wife is from Mexican decent. Both her mother and father came from Mexico. However, both came through LEGAL procedures like the rest of our ancestors did. And for that, I respect her family and all the rest of the Legal immigrants. With that said, I really don't care if you are a hard worker or not, this is still America, and we have LAWS! If you can not follow these such laws, then you must be punished. See the problem here is our lawmakers. If we would enforce our current laws and punish the abusers more harshly, crime rates in general would be lower. Had we done this in the past, we wouldn't have this problem now. We also allow to many AMERICANS to sit on their lazy Ass and not work. i.e. WELFARE. We allow Women to get pregnant multiple times while on WELFARE, while previous to the 1st pregnency couldn't support themselves, and we do nothing about it. So we allow Americans not to work and they get taken care of by WELFARE! So then there are all these jobs no AMERICAN wants to do, because they can collect their check by of course, not working, and then their becomes a market for a migrant workforce. LEGAL OR NONLEGAL WORKFORCE! So in the GRAND sceme of things, we need to look at our system of how we deal with the AMERICAN workforce and how it can be overhauled, and then just maybe there wouldn't be enough jobs for these migrant workers. If you take away the Welfare check from those Americans who are capable of working, but don't want to settle for low pay, I bet they would find a job pretty quick, thus filling up those unwanted jobs by AMERICANS!
Let's wake up here, we are allowing non citizens with absolutely no rights the right to assemble and free speech in these rallies. Essentially not only are they breaking the law for being here as illegals, they don't have the right to asseble, free speech, etc. etc.
There is a lot of grey area here, but As AMERICANS, we can't just allow non-Americans to march all over our rights and do nothing about it. The quote from Theodore Roosevelt said it best. If you want live in America, then you must assimilate as an American. I think this is the main problem here. Americans don't mind if you come here and work, but when you come here and waive your flag and expect things like health care, and don't contribute the way every other hardworking American does, then we've got a problem! Theres nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage, but if you want to be an American, the become an American 1st and make your native country 2nd!

That's all I got, this issure pisses me off. It's not about ethnicity or race, it's about disrespect to law abiding and taxpeying Americans who hate to see our Constitution crapped on!

[Multidigits]

I don't have a problem with LEGAL immidrants in this country, but those without a green card should not be openly protesting in our streets and making demands to be treated better than what they have. Just think what would happen if you tried that in any other country in the world???? I still say they need to sort them out and boot the ones not here legally.

[Art]

I don't have a problem with LEGAL immidrants in this country, but those without a green card should not be openly protesting in our streets and making demands to be treated better than what they have. Just think what would happen if you tried that in any other country in the world???? I still say they need to sort them out and boot the ones not here legally.

I agree, but that would take money and resources. Two things our govt can never seem to find enough of.

[Multidigits]

All they have to do is ask for volunteers. There's already a bunch watching the borders now.

[Art]

All they have to do is ask for volunteers. There's already a bunch watching the borders now.

That's just asking for trouble IMO.

[Multidigits]

Trouble is what we're talking about getting rid of.

[PhilpotHunter]

That's just asking for trouble IMO.

All I see you doing Art is saying that "that won't work" or " your just being racist" or "IMO thats just asking for trouble" but I have yet to see you offer any solution other than don't worry about it?

And for you to think it isn't a problem, I'm baffled. You don't buy any of the arguments (VALID arguments) and you wrap us up as a whole as racists. Well, thats a cop out man. Just because you aren't seeing the problems doesn't mean they aren't there. What if I told you that part of the reason YOUR health care cost are high is because of illegal immigrants? Would you belive that? Probably not, but its true. Look at the hospitals on the borders and in California CLOSING there doors due to it. I would go into a lengthy explanation but I already know you aren't going to buy it and your going to spin it off somehow so why bother?


And if you notice in my post about the farmers, i didn't say they are making 7 an hour did I. If you think all these farmers are paying them over minimum wage you a sadly mistaken. So your answer is call the authorities right? Well, as you yourself stated, "The goverment doesn't pay me" ;) And when we do call, nothing is done.

Politically I'm ashamed of ALL of our politicians. Left or Right, they are trying to get the votes of this new "voter pool" but in the process they are forgetting about US!! The American citizens. You know, the legal citizens that put them in office, THIER BOSSES!!!
If your unhappy about it, call there offices. Find an e-mail address and tell them that as a LEGAL CITIZEN you don't want to see this immigration issue dictated by ILLEGAL CITIZENS. Get mad. Do something other than bitch about it online before it is to late. This is a case of the loud minority drowning out the silent majority.

[Art]

All I see you doing Art is saying that "that won't work" or " your just being racist" or "IMO thats just asking for trouble" but I have yet to see you offer any solution other than don't worry about it?

And for you to think it isn't a problem, I'm baffled. You don't buy any of the arguments (VALID arguments) and you wrap us up as a whole as racists. Well, thats a cop out man. Just because you aren't seeing the problems doesn't mean they aren't there. What if I told you that part of the reason YOUR health care cost are high is because of illegal immigrants? Would you belive that? Probably not, but its true. Look at the hospitals on the borders and in California CLOSING there doors due to it. I would go into a lengthy explanation but I already know you aren't going to buy it and your going to spin it off somehow so why bother?


And if you notice in my post about the farmers, i didn't say they are making 7 an hour did I. If you think all these farmers are paying them over minimum wage you a sadly mistaken. So your answer is call the authorities right? Well, as you yourself stated, "The goverment doesn't pay me" ;) And when we do call, nothing is done.

Politically I'm ashamed of ALL of our politicians. Left or Right, they are trying to get the votes of this new "voter pool" but in the process they are forgetting about US!! The American citizens. You know, the legal citizens that put them in office, THIER BOSSES!!!
If your unhappy about it, call there offices. Find an e-mail address and tell them that as a LEGAL CITIZEN you don't want to see this immigration issue dictated by ILLEGAL CITIZENS. Get mad. Do something other than bitch about it online before it is to late. This is a case of the loud minority drowning out the silent majority.

I NEVER said it wasn't a problem, it is a problem.

I'm not hearing any solutions come from any of you guys either. You think it's up to the people to check for green cards and watch the border??? Wrong. It is the responsibility of our govt to protect the borders. The problem is that there is no real way to solve this problem that anyone has found yet.

All I'm hearing in this thread is how they are only here to scam us, work for peanuts, steal jobs, are dishonest and hunt for free. If you don't see through some of these comments that have a racist tone then well...I just don't know.. I guarandamntee you that if it was a good looking woman from Canada that took a job at where you work, most of you would not have a problem with that like you would if it was a Mexican man. The reason I say that is because I have seen that happen many times in this area..

What you are failing to realize or admit is that the problem does not only involve immigrants. It involves our economy, our govt., unions, pension funds, labor laws, capitalism, and many cornerstones of the USA itself. In fact it involves ourselves. It's just easier for people to say, "Awww, they are just a bunch of crooks, send em all back."

It's kind of ironic that this country was founded by immigrants who were looking for a better life. They met resistance here by the people who were already here, including Mexicans, so they killed them. Today, people from all over the world still come here looking for a better life (risking their OWN lives) just as people have done for 230 years and all of a sudden we say, "Not you, but you guys over there, c'mon in."

Fact is that there is plenty of work to support everyone. Your job as a worker is to find a job that you like that will afford you to live. The job of the employer is to find people willing to do quality work and pay them as little as possible. That's how capitalism works. You don't like the job? Don't do it and find something else that meets your needs.. The employer can't make you work so they need to find someone who will.

[Multidigits]

How about doing just what these jokers are protesting about--treat lawbreakers as lawbreakers???? Make it a crime for an employer,be it farmer or what ever to hire someone without a green card. They do't get work, they go home hungry the same way they came in.

[Art]

How about doing just what these jokers are protesting about--treat lawbreakers as lawbreakers???? Make it a crime for an employer,be it farmer or what ever to hire someone without a green card. They do't get work, they go home hungry the same way they came in.

That's a good start. It's kind of like the drug war, as long as there is a demand then the supply will keep coming.

[Multidigits]

That's a good start. It's kind of like the drug war, as long as there is a demand then the supply will keep coming.

I haven't noticed druggies taking the streets asking to be treated fairly....enforce the laws on the books, as they were intended...nothing more.

[Tom Borck]

Speaking from experience and living in South Florida Hispanics generally are hard workers, keep a clean house and yard, and want their children to get a good education!

I don't have a problem with immigrants, it is the fact that they are ILLEGAL! We have only to blame ourselves for this, we waited forever to do something about illegal immigrants and now there are so many here it is really too late. Just make the ones here legal and and stop any new ones from coming in illegally.

Put the shoe on the other foot, if I moved to Bahamas, Mexico, etc...illegally opened up a lucrative business....I wonder how long they would let me stay! As soon as they found out a crazy white man was making some big bucks, I would be on the first flight back to USA.

[Art]

I haven't noticed druggies taking the streets asking to be treated fairly....enforce the laws on the books, as they were intended...nothing more.

The drug trade is VERY similar. Both tend to come from other countries to make money here. You may not see protest on the street, but you can bet that you can see the protest in the form of cases and convicts that eat up our courts and prison systems. Do you actually think the drug laws are enforced fairly and by the books.

To me personally, I would rather devote the money and resources to stopping Meth in our state then I would going around looking for people to deport, but that's just me. Everyone has their priorities. I guess a drug that is killing people and sucking law enforcement dry isn't as important to some as getting the Mexican off your street???? I could be wrong, but I've never seen any of you guys this worked up over more serious issues.

[Multidigits]

Art, your not connecting the dots here. IF 2000 drug heads marched in the street of Lexington and asked to be allowed to make,use and sell illegal drugs because that's what they do, then I would expect that the police or somebody would want to take names and make a list.

Here we have thousands in cities across the nation marching and singing and just having a freakin ball for the same thing--to be allowed to break the law with out being held accountable. Frankly, I can't see how you can condone either activity unless you condone both.

[Art]

Art, your not connecting the dots here. IF 2000 drug heads marched in the street of Lexington and asked to be allowed to make,use and sell illegal drugs because that's what they do, then I would expect that the police or somebody would want to take names and make a list.

Here we have thousands in cities across the nation marching and singing and just having a freakin ball for the same thing--to be allowed to break the law with out being held accountable. Frankly, I can't see how you can condone either activity unless you condone both.

All laws are not the same. An illegal immigrant will not be punished as harshly as a crack dealer. The seriousness of the crime is a little different. I don't know about you, but I'm a little more worried about an armed meth head then I am about some illegal shoveling horse turds at the farm down the road.

What could really be done? Would you have gone to every rally and arrested thousands of people all in one day and sent them back in box cars by rail? How could we do that? Who would do that? Do you think the politicians are going to risk pissing off the largest minority group in the country two years before elections? Not a chance in hell of that..

I don't like illegals anymore than you guys, but like I have said it just doesn't make me angry. I CANNOT totally fault someone who is willing to risk their life to make a better life for their families by working their tail off at a minimum wage job in a foreign country. Do I want them here? NO, but like Tom said- it's to late to start crying about it now.. Hell, if you guys need a place to start then the next time you go to Krogers, don't buy any fruits or vegtables. That will put some of them out of work if enough people do it.

[quackrstackr]

What could really be done? Would you have gone to every rally and arrested thousands of people all in one day and sent them back in box cars by rail? How could we do that? Who would do that?

Joseph McCarthy ring any bells? ;)

[lymanl3]

Per Art,

"I CANNOT totally fault someone who is willing to risk their life to make a better life for their families by working their tail off at a minimum wage job in a foreign country" I agree....


The whole scenario is way out of control and NOW there is no feasible, friendly, PC way to deal with it.

My concern is we have ILLEGAL im. protesting our LEGAL policies that attempt to protect and serve LEGAL americans. Remedy....get LEGAL.

Pay taxes, register to vote, and employers should be held accountable in the future for ensuring employees are legal. Make employers certify EVERYONE..if you dont have a BC, SS#, greencard, or citizenship paper (or whatever ananlogous)..then you lose your job. Now before I get derailed that this is not feasible..your probably right...because at this point...what is?

The main focus here IMO...is TAX money. They dont pay taxes, employers get buy with cheap labor...dont match the tax money..dont pay insurance...pensions...etc....so the same people complaining are probably the same people reaping the benefits of cheap labor and money saved.

Now this is biased considering my profession...but when a child is born here...bam!...they are legal. Dad isnt..mother isnt..but they can receive benefits on behalf of child. Why should we pay for that..when papa isnt putting in as well. Now...I dont want the child to suffer and I am not advocating that...I just want Dad (legal/any dad) to put in the tax pot as well.

I support any person who is willing to work, but pay your taxes, get legal...

Lyman

[KYBOY]

Good post. Thier still illegal and thier still breaking the law. These illegal immigrants are costing us a lot more money than thier saving in cheap labor. Tally in the tax's, the welfare for thier childen born here and the law enforcement in dealing with them, be it in patrolling, arresting and/or houseing(jail/prison) and the problem is huge. Thiers plenty of illegal immigrant crooks crossing the border with the good people to. We shouldent have to sort them out after thier here and already commited crimes. Thats why we have immegration laws, to weed out the good from the bad. Im sorry for thier conditions down thier, Ive seen them I know how crappy mexico is but we have enough problems of our own to deal with. We dont need another countrys problems to.

[Multidigits]

Art said:

"I CANNOT totally fault someone who is willing to risk their life to make a better life for their families by working their tail off at a minimum wage job in a foreign country"

Good idea going there.......round em up and have them serve in the military for 4years then give them a green card. Walking guard duty in Iraq shouldn't be too much worse than roofing a 12/12 pitch roof on a hot day.

[Art]

Art said:

"I CANNOT totally fault someone who is willing to risk their life to make a better life for their families by working their tail off at a minimum wage job in a foreign country"

Good idea going there.......round em up and have them serve in the military for 4years then give them a green card. Walking guard duty in Iraq shouldn't be too much worse than roofing a 12/12 pitch roof on a hot day.

That isn't such a bad idea IMO. I bet many of them would jump on that. The problem with something like that would be the ACLU and the Liberals. They'd never stand for it, especially if it were this administration that offered it. Compared to what some of these Mexicans are doing for work the military would be one hell of a gravy job..

[lymanl3]

FYI...from yahoo news..

WASHINGTON - The two top Republicans in Congress, confronted with internal party divisions as well as large public demonstrations, said Tuesday they intend to pass immigration legislation that does not subject illegal immigrants to prosecution as felons. A written statement by House Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee, did not say whether they would seek legislation subjecting illegal immigrants to misdemeanor prosecution or possibly a civil penalty such as a fine.

Hmm...that will deter them...way to go fellas. Next thing you know treason will be a citation.

Lyman

[kyfanatic]

All laws are not the same. An illegal immigrant will not be punished as harshly as a crack dealer. The seriousness of the crime is a little different. I don't know about you, but I'm a little more worried about an armed meth head then I am about some illegal shoveling horse turds at the farm down the road.

What could really be done? Would you have gone to every rally and arrested thousands of people all in one day and sent them back in box cars by rail? How could we do that? Who would do that? Do you think the politicians are going to risk pissing off the largest minority group in the country two years before elections? Not a chance in hell of that..

I don't like illegals anymore than you guys, but like I have said it just doesn't make me angry. I CANNOT totally fault someone who is willing to risk their life to make a better life for their families by working their tail off at a minimum wage job in a foreign country. Do I want them here? NO, but like Tom said- it's to late to start crying about it now.. Hell, if you guys need a place to start then the next time you go to Krogers, don't buy any fruits or vegtables. That will put some of them out of work if enough people do it.

Of course no Terrorist group could smuggle people and or goods across the same border in the same manor,all these ILLEGALS are up standing people risking their lives to come here for a better life.It doesn't matter that they have already broken the Law by way of coming,or the burden put on LEGAL TAX PAYING USA CITIZENS,only that these people are more honest,harder workers and cleaner than Caucasions right?

Funny but I see these people as being no better and maybe worse in most aspects,but of course I've only been to Mexico,Central,and South America 50 trips or so.I've been closely involved with the ones already in place here,close enough to see that many are as Dishonest as the MethHeads and Crack dealers.

[kyfanatic]

Of course no Terrorist group could smuggle people and or goods across the same border in the same manor,all these ILLEGALS are up standing people risking their lives to come here for a better life.It doesn't matter that they have already broken the Law by way of coming,or the burden put on LEGAL TAX PAYING USA CITIZENS,only that these people are more honest,harder workers and cleaner than Caucasions right?

Funny but I see these people as being no better and maybe worse in most aspects,but of course I've only been to Mexico,Central,and South America 50 trips or so.I've been closely involved with the ones already in place here,close enough to see that many are as Dishonest as the MethHeads and Crack dealers.

I know at least 12 Mexican families that yes the husband works making the same wages as any Legal American Citizen,but whose wife also draws Welfare,AFDC,or whatever it is they swindle Tax Payers out of.Totally Ridiculous!!!

[Art]

I know at least 12 Mexican families that yes the husband works making the same wages as any Legal American Citizen,but whose wife also draws Welfare,AFDC,or whatever it is they swindle Tax Payers out of.Totally Ridiculous!!!

KY, With all due respect I get the feeling that you have a genuine dislike for ALL Hispanics regardless if the deserve it or not IMO. I don't want to get everyone thinking that I'm sticking up for all immigrants, illegals included, but at the same time I KNOW they aren't all a bunch of crooks here to take advantage of anything they possibly can. I know enough Mexicans and am around enough of them to know that they want they same things that we all do.. I have some great Mexican friends and it bothers me we there is an attempt to tarnish them all as a group when they do not deserve it.

I'm not denying there is a problem. However the problem has roots all throughout our society and economy. The system is what it is and it's not just immigrants who are taking advantage of it. Fix the system and the problem will disappear.

[PhilpotHunter]

it bothers me we there is an attempt to tarnish them all as a group when they do not deserve it.

Actually, if your friends are here illegally, they are criminals and do deserve it.

[Art]

Actually, if your friends are here illegally, they are criminals and do deserve it.

Who said they were illegal?:confused: They even speak English and pay taxes. Like I said, it really seems like a some people do not distinguish between legal and illegal. That's fine with me, it's not my business what other people think but it does make for an interesting arguement IMO when people dance all around what they really want to say. I'm not qualified to judge anyone, I'm just giving my opinion and I don't hold any of this against anyone.

All in all, nobody has said anything in this thread that even resembles a solution. It's been well established how people feel and what they see as being the problem- but what's the answer?

[trust me]

You're right, Art, there haven't been any solutions offered. I'll offer the only solution- build a wall. Build a big long freaking concrete wall and patrol and guard it and protect our sovereignty and if we have to build one on the Canadian border, then we can do that too.

We can't try to solve the problem of an estimated 11 million illegals while 11 million more are slipping in at the same time. This nonsense about passing law either accepting them or rejecting them is just as pointless as the last round of laws passed addressing illegal immigration. Without a definitive border, we need not even discuss it. Build the wall and then address 11 million illegals, not 12 or 20 or 100 million.

Israel had great success with their prefab concrete barrier in keeping the Palestinian suicide bombers out. It could work here too.

[kyfanatic]

http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=50600&id=2006041219550002809156

[GSP]

I was downtown Lexington Monday and saw the "show".
I would guess there where around 1500-2000 people around 11:30am.

I do not have any issues with booting illegals out of this country.


What's the solution? The one we have sure as heck ain't working. So passing a law to tell the illegal guy he is illegal will fix it?????

Rounding up all them and sending them back? What would that take? 750,000 Greyhound buses? (or 300 Astro vans, ok that's a joke).
Let's see, 1 out, 1 in....that will take approx. NO time to counter act.:rolleyes:

From what I have seen I like Trust Me's solution.
A good bit of advice is to replace the screen door with a wooden door in the winter before you worry about the cracked window.:cool:

[kyfanatic]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/27/border.kidnappings/index.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/25/magazine/25SEXTRAFFIC.html?ei=5007&en=43dbe6ef76e45af8&ex=1390366800&partner=USERLAND&pagewanted=print&position=

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24987

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17216


I agree with the wall idea also,but we also need beefed up security personal albeit US armed forces,or tons more border patrol,I say they mount a few hundred .50 cal machine guns too (what better deterent),problem is they have networks of tunnels and realistically the border is huge.

[AteUp]

http://home.bellsouth.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=2219&eeid=4920715&_sitecat=1505&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=-2&ck=&ch=ne&rg=blsadstrgt

Migrants Rush to Border Hoping for Passage

Published: 4/12/06, 10:07 PM EDT

NOGALES, Mexico (AP) - At a shelter overflowing with migrants airing their blistered feet, Francisco Ramirez nursed muscles sore from trekking through the Arizona desert - a trip that failed when his wife did not have the strength to go on.

He said the couple would rest for a few days, then try again, a plan echoed by dozens reclining on rickety bunk beds and carpets tossed on the floor after risking violent bandits and the harsh desert in unsuccessful attempts to get into the United States.

The shelter's manager, Francisco Loureiro, said he has not seen such a rush of migrants since 1986, when the United States allowed 2.6 million illegal residents to get American citizenship.

This time, the draw is a bill before the U.S. Senate that could legalize some of the 11 million people now illegally in the United States while tightening border security. Migrants are hurrying to cross over in time to qualify for a possible guest-worker program - and before the journey becomes even harder.

"Every time there is talk in the north of legalizing migrants, people get their hopes up, but they don't realize how hard it will be to cross," Loureiro said.

South-central Arizona is the busiest migrant-smuggling area, and detentions by the U.S. Border Patrol there are up more than 26 percent this fiscal year - 105,803 since Oct. 1, compared with 78,024 for the same period a year ago. Along the entire border, arrests are up 9 percent.

Maria Valencia, a spokeswoman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection, said the rise in detentions did not necessarily mean more people were crossing. She attributed at least some of the additional detentions to an increase in the number of Border Patrol agents.

"We've sent more technology and agents there, and I think that's had an impact," she said.

But Loureiro, who has managed the shelter for 24 years, said the debate in the U.S. Congress has triggered a surge in migrants. In March, 2,000 migrants stayed at the shelter - 500 more than last year.

Many migrants said they were being encouraged to come now by relatives living in the United States.

One of them is Ramirez, a 30-year-old who earned about $80 a week at a rebar factory in Mexico's central state of Michoacan.

He spent an entire night walking through the Arizona desert with his wife, Edith Mondragon, 29. When her legs cramped, their guide abandoned them and the couple turned themselves in to U.S. authorities. They were deported.

But they said they would try again when they regained their strength.

"We want to try our luck up there," Mondragon said. "We can't go back to Michoacan because there is no future there."

Ramirez said the draw was not only the prospect of work in Minnesota, where two of his brothers milk cows on a ranch. He was also excited about the idea he might be able to do it legally.

"My brothers said there is plenty of work there, and that it looks like they will start giving (work) permits," he said.

Many of the migrants also are being driven by a desire to get into the United States before the likelihood that lawmakers further fortify the border.

Since the United States tightened security at the main crossing points in Texas and California in the 1990s, hundreds of thousands of migrants have turned to the hard-to-patrol, mesquite-covered Arizona desert, risking rape, robbery and murder at the hands of gangs and now facing armed U.S. civilian groups.

About 2,000 people a day pass through Sasabe, a hamlet of just a few dozen houses and a Western Union office west of Nogales, says Grupo Beta, a Mexican government-sponsored group that tries to discourage migrants from crossing the border and helps people stranded in the desert.

On a recent afternoon, at least 40 vans overflowing with migrants arrived in the desert near Sasabe in less than an hour. Migrants and their smugglers waited for nightfall before starting a desert trek that would involve up to a week of walking in baking heat during the day and biting cold at night.

Grupo Beta agent Miguel Martinez mans a checkpoint 20 miles south of Sasabe, where he warns of the dangers of the desert, such as bandits armed with knives or guns who order migrants to strip naked, rob them and sometimes rape them.

He also tells about the volunteer border-watch groups that have sprung up in Arizona.

"Right now there are migrant hunters who are armed, and you should be careful," Martinez told a group traveling in a rickety van missing some of its windows.

At Grupo Beta's office in Nogales, Raul Gonzalez, 44, said he walked in the Arizona desert for five days before turning himself in when the blisters on his feet started bleeding and his left leg swelled up.

Like most migrants interviewed for this story, Gonzalez said he was robbed at gunpoint just after crossing into the United States.

"The guides and the robbers are all the same," he said.

Gonzalez said the first time he sneaked into the United States, he did it through Tijuana, across the border from San Diego. He said he worked illegally at a printing shop in Chicago for 15 years but got homesick before he could settle the paperwork for legal residence.

Despite the robbery and his failed trek, Gonzalez said he would try again once his feet heal. His bricklayer's salary of about $60 a week in the western state of Jalisco simply is not enough to provide for his four children.

"It's hard to cross," he said. "But it's harder to see your children have little to eat."

[KYBOY]

The one thing that burns me bad is the mexican govt is encouraging this. Thier handing out flyers telling what supplies they will need and where the best places to cross are:mad: This is what we'er up against:confused:

[Art]

http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=50600&id=2006041219550002809156

What in the heck are you trying to prove?? That Mexicans kill people, that there are drugs in Mexico? I think anyone with a brain knows this already.:rolleyes:

Thanks for making us aware of something that has absolutly NOTHING to do with anything we have been talking about. It's not worth my time...........

[beaver396]

Try this on for size.

The main reason the mexicans are able to work for peanuts is they hardly have any bills, pay no taxes, and send their money to mexico where it worth alot more.

When mexicans become legal, get bills, pay taxes, insurance, and that stuff, they no longer can make it on $5 an hour. so then they go to other places like, carpentry, Rail road, etc. places that normally pay $15 and up per hour. the mexicans coming from $5 an hour job work these higher paying jobs for $<15 per hour, therefore shooting everyone else in the foot by driving the wages down. We arent feeling those effects yet but in 10yrs how easy will it be to find a $15 an hour job if mexicans will do it for $10?

On a side note:
My friend drove a mexican to the border 2 yrs ago from morehead, he had worked here for many years and saved 50,000 dollar, he said he could live like a king back in mexico.

[Art]

Try this on for size.

The main reason the mexicans are able to work for peanuts is they hardly have any bills, pay no taxes, and send their money to mexico where it worth alot more.

When mexicans become legal, get bills, pay taxes, insurance, and that stuff, they no longer can make it on $5 an hour. so then they go to other places like, carpentry, Rail road, etc. places that normally pay $15 and up per hour. the mexicans coming from $5 an hour job work these higher paying jobs for $<15 per hour, therefore shooting everyone else in the foot by driving the wages down. We arent feeling those effects yet but in 10yrs how easy will it be to find a $15 an hour job if mexicans will do it for $10?

On a side note:
My friend drove a mexican to the border 2 yrs ago from morehead, he had worked here for many years and saved 50,000 dollar, he said he could live like a king back in mexico.

Most jobs have a standard pay scale that has nothing to do with a workers nationality. I seriously doubt a railroad job starting at $15 an hr is going to say, "We only start our Mexicans off at $8 an hr"

If you work in a job where the pay is set based on the lowest bidder, well then you can do one of two things. Get another job, or quit whining and except the realities of a free market society as it applies to what you have chosen to do for a living.

No matter what job it is, someone will always be willing to do it for less. Some jobs look for the cheapest labor they can find. These are typically jobs that anyone could do so they pay accordingly. IMO, if someone is complaining about Mexicans driving down wages, then they are probably either running a weedeater all day or cleaning hotel rooms. If it's construction then the low bidder usually wins.

[Multidigits]

Most jobs have a standard pay scale that has nothing to do with a workers nationality. I seriously doubt a railroad job starting at $15 an hr is going to say, "We only start our Mexicans off at $8 an hr"

If you work in a job where the pay is set based on the lowest bidder, well then you can do one of two things. Get another job, or quit whining and except the realities of a free market society as it applies to what you have chosen to do for a living.

No matter what job it is, someone will always be willing to do it for less. Some jobs look for the cheapest labor they can find. These are typically jobs that anyone could do so they pay accordingly. IMO, if someone is complaining about Mexicans driving down wages, then they are probably either running a weedeater all day or cleaning hotel rooms. If it's construction then the low bidder usually wins.

What's that got to do with paying taxes????? NOTHING! Before they should have the right to take their protest to the streets, they should be legal and paying taxes. In most cases, they aren't doing either. Most American's are going to have a problem with that. Especially the working tax paying ones.

[Wildcat]

Want to see some of the cost of the "cheap" Mexican labor?

Look in a hospital ER.

I've got a friend in Texas that works in a ER about 100 miles north of the boarder and he's told me that 75%+ of the people that come though their ER is a Hispanic with little or no money and more than half of them do not have any papers of any kind making them a sure bet they are illegal.

He also knows for sure some of them are there illegal since they told him. He's had women come in to have their babys there and they told him they cannot afford to have them in a Mexican hospital so they cross the boarder to the "free" ER in American plus it lets the baby be born here making it an American citizen.

Under US law the ER must treat them wither they can pay or not. To stay in business the hospital must get the money back somehow so guess where it comes from?? Yep, they pass it along to the PAYING customers with insurance and Medicare, they in turn raise the rates to recover the skyhigh medical costs.

I'm not blaming it all on Mexicans since a lot of American citizens do the same thing but they ARE American citizens while some of these others are here ILLEGALLY. Something is just not right here.

[Art]

What's that got to do with paying taxes????? NOTHING! Before they should have the right to take their protest to the streets, they should be legal and paying taxes. In most cases, they aren't doing either. Most American's are going to have a problem with that. Especially the working tax paying ones.

I thought we are now talking about legals?? Who cares about taxes, it has nothing to do with wages paid. It was pointed out that legal Mexicans are driving down wages. How so if they are working as a legal worker for a upstanding company? Are the companies not taking out taxes and risking their necks just so Mexicans won't have to pay taxes? Not at any credible job. I have worked at jobs that hired illegals years ago and you can bet your arse they took out taxes. Very few jobs hire illegals and pay them cash assuming it is a legit business and not Ol' Joe bob who needs his tobacco cut. In that case, Joe bob probably ain't takin out taxes no matter who works for him.

In life there are those who accept responsibility for themselves and take care of their own business. Then there are always those who blame everyone else for their shortcomings in life. It's always someone elses fault. If it's not the Mexicans it's the govt. It's someone elses fault that they have a crap job or their wife left them.

I can honestly say that I feel that the whole immigration this has NOTHING to do with my life. Does it cost me money? Probably somewhere down the line, but what in the hell doesn't? Are many Mexicans taking advantage of the system? You bet, but so is nearly everyone else in some form. Why should I waste my time sorting out blame? I'm at the controls for my life, not an illegal Mexican.

[lymanl3]

Want to see some of the cost of the "cheap" Mexican labor?

Look in a hospital ER.

I've got a friend in Texas that works in a ER about 100 miles north of the boarder and he's told me that 75%+ of the people that come though their ER is a Hispanic with little or no money and more than half of them do not have any papers of any kind making them a sure bet they are illegal.

He also knows for sure some of them are there illegal since they told him. He's had women come in to have their babys there and they told him they cannot afford to have them in a Mexican hospital so they cross the boarder to the "free" ER in American plus it lets the baby be born here making it an American citizen.

Under US law the ER must treat them wither they can pay or not. To stay in business the hospital must get the money back somehow so guess where it comes from?? Yep, they pass it along to the PAYING customers with insurance and Medicare, they in turn raise the rates to recover the skyhigh medical costs.

I'm not blaming it all on Mexicans since a lot of American citizens do the same thing but they ARE American citizens while some of these others are here ILLEGALLY. Something is just not right here.


Bingo...

Art,

I am sure you may not personally feel the effects...but trust me they are there, and compounded by legal americans as well.

Like I stated earlier..everything is way out of control and I dont believe there is any feasible answer other than bargaining with them...and I feel the laws will be loosened up. There is too much PC in washington surrounding this issue and nobody wants to offend anyone. I repeat..I dont blame anyone for wanting to better themselves or their family...but get registered..get legal. Pay taxes and contribute to the whole. Whose to say..someday I may hit a hardship and need assistance....but at least I contributed. We never know and with deficits and fuel issues..whos to say what the future holds. My issue is as well...identity theft..some who are pseudo legal...where do you think they get their SS#'s at??? I could be juan, gerrado or "Jim" right now...

[Art]

Bingo...

Art,

I am sure you may not personally feel the effects...but trust me they are there, and compounded by legal americans as well.

Like I stated earlier..everything is way out of control and I dont believe there is any feasible answer other than bargaining with them...and I feel the laws will be loosened up. There is too much PC in washington surrounding this issue and nobody wants to offend anyone. I repeat..I dont blame anyone for wanting to better themselves or their family...but get registered..get legal. Pay taxes and contribute to the whole. Whose to say..someday I may hit a hardship and need assistance....but at least I contributed. We never know and with deficits and fuel issues..whos to say what the future holds. My issue is as well...identity theft..some who are pseudo legal...where do you think they get their SS#'s at??? I could be juan, gerrado or "Jim" right now...

I agree. I guess I just don't see Hispanics as being such a problem that I should take time out of my day to worry about it.

I see a person as a person despite their nationality or skin color, but I'm also aware that there are still many out there who have not yet reached that level of intellect.. I see an idividual as an individual and I don't lump groups of people together. I don't judge people based on what someone else has told me or some story I hear from another state. Like I said, I'm not qualified to judge anyone.

I seems to me like the real issue here that pisses some people off is money...and perhaps women.:D I don't really see the need to focus on one aspect of the problem if it will not solve the problem. If it is hospital bills, taxes, wages, ect that makes someone angry the they need to be angry at everyone-not just hispanics. It's more than obvious in this thread that some people choose to give their own kind a free ride. I have not heard one person here complain about their own kind and if it all boils down to money they I don't understand why not.....Actually I do, but I don't want to get into that. Like I said, it's always someone elses fault and never their own.:)

[trust me]

. I have not heard one person here complain about their own kind ...

Please refer back to #14 on page 2. I got grumpy on white people.

[Multidigits]

Art said: "Like I said, I'm not qualified to judge anyone" and "I'm also aware that there are still many out there who have not yet reached that level of intellect" :confused:

[lymanl3]

I agree. I guess I just don't see Hispanics as being such a problem that I should take time out of my day to worry about it.

I see a person as a person despite their nationality or skin color, but I'm also aware that there are still many out there who have not yet reached that level of intellect.. I see an idividual as an individual and I don't lump groups of people together. I don't judge people based on what someone else has told me or some story I hear from another state. Like I said, I'm not qualified to judge anyone.

I seems to me like the real issue here that pisses some people off is money...and perhaps women.:D I don't really see the need to focus on one aspect of the problem if it will not solve the problem. If it is hospital bills, taxes, wages, ect that makes someone angry the they need to be angry at everyone-not just hispanics. It's more than obvious in this thread that some people choose to give their own kind a free ride. I have not heard one person here complain about their own kind and if it all boils down to money they I don't understand why not.....Actually I do, but I don't want to get into that. Like I said, it's always someone elses fault and never their own.:)

I agree that its not just hispanics..there are plenty of legal citizens who take advantage of the system...I catch them daily. The problem is if people keep coming across the borders not getting legal..that is a serious problem monetarily, and to my safety. Hell Terrorists ought to start coming in that way because its not being monitored.

I worry about it because its part of my job...culture, social welfare, child protection etc....I investigate homes where illegals are living via subsidized housing, their children are on government healthcare...and they dont pay taxes. It upsets me that they are getting the free ride..and not contributing to the good as well. They have benefitted here why not help out as well.

[Art]

Art said: "Like I said, I'm not qualified to judge anyone" and "I'm also aware that there are still many out there who have not yet reached that level of intellect" :confused:

There's a big difference in understanding racism when you see it as opposed to lumping an entire race together as bad people as has been done in this thread. I don't see my statement as being judgemental at all, in fact it is about as vague and unspecific as you can get. I'm just pointing out the obvious (that racism plays a big part in this issue) but I suppose you could twist anything however you want to when you take two sentences out of context and past them together.

So what is it that you are really trying to say? Am I the bad guy because I don't believe that hauling all the Mexicans back to Mexico and building a 50 foot wall is a realistic idea to solve Americas problems?
There's a lot of hypocracy going on now. The problem is that I agree with you guys on ILLEGALS but thats not good enough for everyone. If I were to say that they were all a bunch of dirty dog crooks that need to be rounded up and jailed, shot, deported, ect... then this thread would have ended 3 pages ago.;)

[Multidigits]

None of my comments were ever geared toward legals working and paying taxes. THAT isn't what the protests are about. The protests are about not treating criminals as criminals. As for it being racial--that's fabricated because it applies to all illegals not just Mexicans. Get legal or get out....end of story. Let the wage find it's self by the available manpower.

[Art]

None of my comments were ever geared toward legals working and paying taxes. THAT isn't what the protests are about. The protests are about not treating criminals as criminals. As for it being racial--that's fabricated because it applies to all illegals not just Mexicans. Get legal or get out....end of story. Let the wage find it's self by the available manpower.

I wasn't speaking of you or your views specifically. I just want people to understand that I don't want illegals here, but I understand why they come here and not all of them have ill intentions. They would not be here in the first place if our economy did not have a niche that needs filling. In a nutshell, basically EVERYONE is helping to bring illegals into this country even if they think of all Mexicans as second rate criminals. It's like blaming the oil companies for high gas prices and driving a Hummer.

Like you just said, let the wage find itself.

[stevenvalleyagain]

Let me start out by asking Art a question.Why do you keep saying "running a weedater all day" like it is some kind of menial job? I know guy who have been in lawn care for years and they are still starving. I also know several guys who make $200-300/year.
I have no problem with legal immigrants from any country. I have seen first hand what illegal immigrants will do to an industry. Here is an example:
I recently lost several customers who were paying $35 for a weekly cut/trim/blow, and have been for 5 or 6 years. They told me they were switching to another company, because they will do it for $20. I called the company to ask if they were for real. I was told absolutely, because the guy had 8 illegals working for him that will work for $25/day. This guy makes $1500/day, and gives his 8 guys $200.THIS IS LOWBALLING. These guys send most of this money home, where it is worth double that. If he had to hire legals, he could not charge $20. He would have to charge $35, just like me. Is this Fair to legitimate business owners like me? This hurts the American economy. No wonder most new business fail in the first year. How is a guy trying to raise a family, suppose to survive? We can't compete with guys that don't pay taxes.
I must tell you that I am in this business by choice, as I have an entreprenuaral spirit.(NO, I can't spell, but I am educated) I have had VERY good jobs in the past. One not so good job, was as a prison guard.
I can tell that abot half of thew inmates were black.About 30% were hispanic, and the rest were white. Please remember that illegal immigrants caught doing a crime are deported. These were legal immigrants. That being said, there are a lot of hard working immigrants here that just want to feed their family just like me. WE REALLY NEED TO DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS NOW. These people are a drain on the government(welfare, no taxes, etc.), and the hard working Americans that don't like being undercut by criminals that are living here for virtually free.

just my opinion,
stevenvalley

[Art]

Let me start out by asking Art a question.Why do you keep saying "running a weedater all day" like it is some kind of menial job? I know guy who have been in lawn care for years and they are still starving. I also know several guys who make $200-300/year.
I have no problem with legal immigrants from any country. I have seen first hand what illegal immigrants will do to an industry. Here is an example:
I recently lost several customers who were paying $35 for a weekly cut/trim/blow, and have been for 5 or 6 years. They told me they were switching to another company, because they will do it for $20. I called the company to ask if they were for real. I was told absolutely, because the guy had 8 illegals working for him that will work for $25/day. This guy makes $1500/day, and gives his 8 guys $200.THIS IS LOWBALLING. These guys send most of this money home, where it is worth double that. If he had to hire legals, he could not charge $20. He would have to charge $35, just like me. Is this Fair to legitimate business owners like me? This hurts the American economy. No wonder most new business fail in the first year. How is a guy trying to raise a family, suppose to survive? We can't compete with guys that don't pay taxes.
I must tell you that I am in this business by choice, as I have an entreprenuaral spirit.(NO, I can't spell, but I am educated) I have had VERY good jobs in the past. One not so good job, was as a prison guard.
I can tell that abot half of thew inmates were black.About 30% were hispanic, and the rest were white. Please remember that illegal immigrants caught doing a crime are deported. These were legal immigrants. That being said, there are a lot of hard working immigrants here that just want to feed their family just like me. WE REALLY NEED TO DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS NOW. These people are a drain on the government(welfare, no taxes, etc.), and the hard working Americans that don't like being undercut by criminals that are living here for virtually free.

just my opinion,
stevenvalley

I don't mean the weedeater comment as derogatory. I have spent more time behind a weedeater and on a mower than I care to admit and I in no way look down on anyone who does it.
My point is that running a weedeater is a job that just about ANYONE can do and the pay for person who weedeats for a living supports that. Thats not really my opinion, that's just they way it is. It's a hard way to make a living and there are other jobs that pay equally that are less work. Typically, Mexicans do jobs that are both low paying and worker starved. You are not likely to see an Illegal working for an established, well paying upstanding company. Lots of these companies that hire illegals are not following the rules anyhow-they probably pay everyone in cash. I know MANY that do. Hell, there are kids around here that mow yards for $10 and they ain't paying taxes.

It's just a simple fact of labor especially lawn care, roofing, ect.. that people will lowball when there is fierce competition. I used to be a roofer and we got lowballed all the time by fly-by-night white guys in old pickup trucks and my company hired Mexicans. Go figure. That's just the way that type of business is. IMO it has more to do with the nature of the business than it does the workers. The worker wants the most possible money, the company wants to pay the least amount of pay, and the customer doesn't want to pay anything.. Add that with a highly competitve job field and you get what you get.

[kyfanatic]

What in the heck are you trying to prove?? That Mexicans kill people, that there are drugs in Mexico? I think anyone with a brain knows this already.:rolleyes:

Thanks for making us aware of something that has absolutly NOTHING to do with anything we have been talking about. It's not worth my time...........

How's this for being worth your time ,My brother lives near the Big Bend area of Texas,his teenage daughter was kidnapped by border Mexicans two years ago and hasn't been found yet,either dead or sold into sex slavery,yet you want to insist I'm racist.It has nothing to do with the color of ones skin,it has everything to do with the trash flowing freely across our border,I've made many trips with my brother in search of to no avail.Hope this happens to someone in your family by your wonderful friends so that you can see and experience what I have.
My brother died last year never seeing his daughter again,I will continue to look and do everything in my limited power to end these crimes.
Next time don't make assumption and look at each link,then if your half as smart as you put on you might get a hint.
Glenn P.
Taxpayer and Veteran of Vietnam 82nd Airborne.

[AteUp]

Sorry about you and your familys' loss kyfanatic, and thank you for serving our country in Vietnam.

Terry

[Art]

How's this for being worth your time ,My brother lives near the Big Bend area of Texas,his teenage daughter was kidnapped by border Mexicans two years ago and hasn't been found yet,either dead or sold into sex slavery,yet you want to insist I'm racist.It has nothing to do with the color of ones skin,it has everything to do with the trash flowing freely across our border,I've made many trips with my brother in search of to no avail.Hope this happens to someone in your family by your wonderful friends so that you can see and experience what I have.
My brother died last year never seeing his daughter again,I will continue to look and do everything in my limited power to end these crimes.
Next time don't make assumption and look at each link,then if your half as smart as you put on you might get a hint.
Glenn P.
Taxpayer and Veteran of Vietnam 82nd Airborne.

OK, a couple of things going on here. First off I'm sorry for your loss and I can understand your anger.

I'm just saying that there are bad apples in every bunch and bad things happen to good people. IMHO, that does not mean that all Mexicans are bad. The only thing I'm assuming is that you dislike all Mexicans and I say that because you have made it a point to pull things into this discussion that have no relevance to the topic at hand. Maybe they would have made more sense to me if you had not waited until 9 pages in to reveal what you where hinting at.. Kinda harsh wishing the same thing upon me though.

All in all you are entitled to your opinion just as I am mine. My experiences are different than your so we'll just leave it at that. Just remember that hate will solve nothing.

[kyfanatic]

Since when are Illegal Drugs,Murders,Kidnappings,and Terrorists entering our country irrelevant to the topic?
The topic relates to ILLEGAL ALIENS entering the USA and every one of the topics I gave links to is directly related to our border problem.

Are all Hispanics bad? No,but any person who Illegally enters this country has already broken the law,how honest could they be starting out like that.

I actually wish I wouldn't have brought up my families personal business.

Whether anybody is the intellect you think you are or not isn't important,what is important is that people who already know everything cannot be taught anything else.

[Art]

Since when are Illegal Drugs,Murders,Kidnappings,and Terrorists entering our country irrelevant to the topic?
The topic relates to ILLEGAL ALIENS entering the USA and every one of the topics I gave links to is directly related to our border problem.

Are all Hispanics bad? No,but any person who Illegally enters this country has already broken the law,how honest could they be starting out like that.

I actually wish I wouldn't have brought up my families personal business.

Whether anybody is the intellect you think you are or not isn't important,what is important is that people who already know everything cannot be taught anything else.

I never said it was irrelevant, I'm just saying that a majority of illegals are good people. I feel like you're trying to convince me that all these people are the scum of the earth. The law they break by entering the country probably does not weigh as heavy on there minds as their hungry children do..

At any rate, your are correct. I cannot be taught that someone is a bad, dishonest person just because they enter the country illegally. I have a feeling that any good American would do the same thing if we were put in that position. I guarantee you that 100% of Americans have broken a law at some point in our lives... Does that make all of us dishonest?

[lymanl3]

How's this for being worth your time ,My brother lives near the Big Bend area of Texas,his teenage daughter was kidnapped by border Mexicans two years ago and hasn't been found yet,either dead or sold into sex slavery,yet you want to insist I'm racist.It has nothing to do with the color of ones skin,it has everything to do with the trash flowing freely across our border,I've made many trips with my brother in search of to no avail.Hope this happens to someone in your family by your wonderful friends so that you can see and experience what I have.
My brother died last year never seeing his daughter again,I will continue to look and do everything in my limited power to end these crimes.
Next time don't make assumption and look at each link,then if your half as smart as you put on you might get a hint.
Glenn P.
Taxpayer and Veteran of Vietnam 82nd Airborne.

Sorry to hear about your families loss...but I hope to think that you really dont wish that upon another..IMO

Lyman

[PhilpotHunter]

I'm just saying that a majority of illegals are good people.

Art, i just read thru all your posts and I think I have an idea for your next job! You need to go work with Bill Orielly, because let me tell you man, you spin things just as quick and nimbley as he does. Whenever anyone throws a good point you change the subject with diversion tactics. And if that doesn't work you blame it on racism.

The quote above says it all for me and I'm sure others....the majority of the ILLEGALS are good people. The majority of the CRIMINALS are good people?

If you have such a love for the ILLEGAL hispanics, why don't you go to Texas and help them cross the boarder. Yes, I know it is against the law, but that shouldn't really matter to you since they are good people right?

[AteUp]

Art, i just read thru all your posts and I think I have an idea for your next job! You need to go work with Bill Orielly, because let me tell you man, you spin things just as quick and nimbley as he does. Whenever anyone throws a good point you change the subject with diversion tactics. And if that doesn't work you blame it on racism.

The quote above says it all for me and I'm sure others....the majority of the ILLEGALS are good people. The majority of the CRIMINALS are good people?

If you have such a love for the ILLEGAL hispanics, why don't you go to Texas and help them cross the boarder. Yes, I know it is against the law, but that shouldn't really matter to you since they are good people right?

But see your wrong there Pooty, O'Reilly doesn't spin. He calls it he way it is! (And never the 2 sides shall meet):D

[Art]

Art, i just read thru all your posts and I think I have an idea for your next job! You need to go work with Bill Orielly, because let me tell you man, you spin things just as quick and nimbley as he does. Whenever anyone throws a good point you change the subject with diversion tactics. And if that doesn't work you blame it on racism.

The quote above says it all for me and I'm sure others....the majority of the ILLEGALS are good people. The majority of the CRIMINALS are good people?

If you have such a love for the ILLEGAL hispanics, why don't you go to Texas and help them cross the boarder. Yes, I know it is against the law, but that shouldn't really matter to you since they are good people right?

Philpot, I think you're missing my point buddy. There is no spin. I only pull the race card when it seems obvious to me that someone dislike an entire group of people despite. You may have a different meaning for the word or how to use it, I don't know.

I do not support illegals. I do not want them here. They are a big problem.. BUT- That does not mean they are bad people.. What I'm saying is that yes, they break the law by entering the country. However, is that such a violation that they should be tagged as dishonest and criminal above all else? That's like me saying a guy that got a DUI or a speeding ticket is the devil. I'm sure you've broken laws before, and I know you're not a bad person.

Are they automatically bad if they come into this country to save their childs life, or perhaps help get money to pay for a sick relative? Is that over ruled by them being illegal?

There was an illegal here in Lexington back in 1994. He came up on a bad car wreck where a mother and her 5 children were in a buring car. He went into the fire getting burned badly and pulled out 2 kids and saved their lives. The others died. I don't think I have anything bad to say about him no matter what.

I don't want them here but that doesn't mean they are a scum of a person.. I prefer to develope an opinion of someone AFTER I know them, not before.
Ya feel me?

[KYBOY]

Sorry but breaking the law makes you a criminal. Plain and simple. The very definition is a person who commits crime. Its a crime to cross illegally, good person, bad person dosnt matter. Its still wrong. Ive seen a lot of what most people would call a good person go to prison. I might not like it but thats the way it is. Laws are set in place to protect society. Good person, hard worker what ever the type if thier here illegally they need to go. Just the way I feel about it. Thiers not a doubt in my mind that many are good people but that dosnt make it right, Im sure everyone can agree on that. I do have sympathy for thier problems, it may not sound like it but I do. Ive been to mexico(or as I like to call it"gods blind spot") and I have absolutly no interest in going back.

[Carl]

Seems like you are always pulling the race card. Was you born a poor black child?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/crmiller/jrk.jpg

[Art]

Seems like you are always pulling the race card. Was you born a poor black child?


I wasn't born one, quite far from it but I grew up with many.
Your response is typical though, it's seems to be worse for me to imply someone has racist feelings then it is for someone to talk openly about them????? I don't care if every person on this board thinks I'm a flake or whatever, I know right from wrong. I'm no more attacking anyone else for their beliefs then they are attacking me for mine.

Like I said, if I had said that we need to round up all the Mexicans Hitler style and shoot them THIS THREAD WOULD HAVE DIED ON PAGE 2 and nobody here would have disagreed with me from the looks of things.

KYBOY- You are correct and I agree 100%. I'm only saying that I don't think it's right to label someone as a criminal above all else just for breaking a minor law. I know people that have broke the law, some of them are on this forum but I still consider them my friends. There are different degrees of criminal activity as we all know. I don't look at a guy who gets a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt the same as I do a child molester- but they both have broken a law and are technically "criminals".

Bottom line here the way I see it is that I have said over and over that I don't want illegals here and I know how they are screwing things up. IMO, what has gotten everyone on my arse here is the fact that I don't have a deep hatred of them as people as well.

[Carl]

Key Findings:

Incarceration of Blacks

· In twelve states, between 10 and 15 percent of adult black men are incarcerated.

· In ten states, between 5 and 10 percent of black adults are incarcerated.

· In twelve states, black men are incarcerated at rates between twelve and sixteen times greater than those of white men.

· In fifteen states, black women are incarcerated at rates between ten and thirty-five times greater than those of white women.

· In six states, black youth under age eighteen are incarcerated in adult facilities at rates between twelve and twenty-five times greater than those of white youth.

Incarceration of Hispanics

· In nine states, between 4 and nearly 8 percent of adult Latino men are incarcerated.

· In twelve states, between 2 and 4 percent of Hispanic adults (men and women) are incarcerated.

· In ten states, Latino men are incarcerated at rates between five and nine times greater than those of white men.

· In eight states, Latina women are incarcerated rates that are between four and seven times greater than those of white women.

· In four states, Hispanic youth under age eighteen are incarcerated in adult facilities at rates between seven and seventeen times greater than those of white youth.
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/race/

[Art]

Key Findings:

Incarceration of Blacks

· In twelve states, between 10 and 15 percent of adult black men are incarcerated.

· In ten states, between 5 and 10 percent of black adults are incarcerated.

· In twelve states, black men are incarcerated at rates between twelve and sixteen times greater than those of white men.

· In fifteen states, black women are incarcerated at rates between ten and thirty-five times greater than those of white women.

· In six states, black youth under age eighteen are incarcerated in adult facilities at rates between twelve and twenty-five times greater than those of white youth.

Incarceration of Hispanics

· In nine states, between 4 and nearly 8 percent of adult Latino men are incarcerated.

· In twelve states, between 2 and 4 percent of Hispanic adults (men and women) are incarcerated.

· In ten states, Latino men are incarcerated at rates between five and nine times greater than those of white men.

· In eight states, Latina women are incarcerated rates that are between four and seven times greater than those of white women.

· In four states, Hispanic youth under age eighteen are incarcerated in adult facilities at rates between seven and seventeen times greater than those of white youth.
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/race/

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
If these numbers are for 12,8,10, or 4 states then why don't they post the numbers for the other 38,42,40, and 46 states?:confused:

[PhilpotHunter]

I feel you Art, and agree that not all illegals are bad people. But the fact remains they are criminal whether large or small. And criminals should not be rewarded for breaking the law. That is the bottom line. I don't care what country they come from, if they did it illegally they are criminals and should be deported.

And let me say something politically incorrect. Everyone of these illegal immigrants has a story to tell of why they came, who they are trying to feed, what they are running from. And most of these stories would break anyones heart, but the fact is you can't uphold immigration by sad stories. You have to have clear laws and clear lines. And when the line is crossed, for whatever reason, you lose, go back to your country and try doing it the legal way.

Here is a thought, just an crazy idea that just popped into my head. What if every illegal immigrant caught in the US had to go to a "prison" work camp for 1 month before being deported? I mean, taking big rocks and making them small type of work. Hell, let them do work for the cities and counties, HARD LABOR. Then ship them home. How many do you think would keep trying to cross the boarder?

[gwhilikerz]

I'm not sticking up for illegals either. I just don't think it's fair to lable the group as a whole as bad people who are just out to scam us and take our jobs.

There are bad apples in every bunch but I personally think humans need to be dealt with on a per person basis and not lumped together because of where they are from.
Art I can agree with what you are saying, to a point. I try very hard to treat everyone as individuals and not lump them together. But when you see ethnic groups come into America and set up communities that practically exclude everyone else, then I have a problem. We have mexican, cambodian, vietnamese, italian, irish, german, arab, middle eastern, russian, etc. They come here and "begin a new life" by trying to convert this country into what it was like back home.
I remember back in grade school we were told this Country was a great "melting pot" where people came, joined society, became Americans as our forefathers did. Later this same teacher told us that America would become a "melding pot". He went on to explain that the difference was that some immigrants would come, start their on communites, avoid change, avoid becoming citizens, and basically run their own country from our shores. I guess he was right. Go to any bigger city and you can see it.

[Art]

I feel you Art, and agree that not all illegals are bad people. But the fact remains they are criminal whether large or small. And criminals should not be rewarded for breaking the law. That is the bottom line. I don't care what country they come from, if they did it illegally they are criminals and should be deported.

And let me say something politically incorrect. Everyone of these illegal immigrants has a story to tell of why they came, who they are trying to feed, what they are running from. And most of these stories would break anyones heart, but the fact is you can't uphold immigration by sad stories. You have to have clear laws and clear lines. And when the line is crossed, for whatever reason, you lose, go back to your country and try doing it the legal way.

Here is a thought, just an crazy idea that just popped into my head. What if every illegal immigrant caught in the US had to go to a "prison" work camp for 1 month before being deported? I mean, taking big rocks and making them small type of work. Hell, let them do work for the cities and counties, HARD LABOR. Then ship them home. How many do you think would keep trying to cross the boarder?

I think that is why we are in the shape we are in. The laws are not real clear, and if they are then they are not really being enforced. This problem is a catch 22 for the US and everyone knows it. At this point in 2006 it would be political suicide for any of our politicians to piss off the largest minority group in the country. I just don't see anything happening until after the elections in 08 at the earliest.

I doubt a month of prison camp would raise an eyebrow. We still have immigrants coming into this country willing to be inslaved for 2+ years just to get here. Make it a year and MAYBE it would deter some.

[PhilpotHunter]

I doubt a month of prison camp would raise an eyebrow. We still have immigrants coming into this country willing to be inslaved for 2+ years just to get here. Make it a year and MAYBE it would deter some.

I'm talking HARD labor for a month, no pay, then immediate deportation. Don't pass GO, don't collect any money, go home

[Art]

I'm talking HARD labor for a month, no pay, then immediate deportation. Don't pass GO, don't collect any money, go home

I don't think it's enough time. I think it would take much longer than that but the bad part is that we would have to cover the bill to incarcerate them. Might as well just deport them and use that money for more border agents instead.

[PhilpotHunter]

I don't think it's enough time. I think it would take much longer than that but the bad part is that we would have to cover the bill to incarcerate them. Might as well just deport them and use that money for more border agents instead.

Full of holes I know, but its an idea. Thats what we need is politicians with ideas, not looking for more votes.

What would you suggest? Any ideas yourself?:confused:

[Art]

Full of holes I know, but its an idea. Thats what we need is politicians with ideas, not looking for more votes.

What would you suggest? Any ideas yourself?:confused:

I don't really know. Honestly I have not been following what is going on with this issue. I think it's all just window dressing at this point.

I think the idea of a guest worker pass seems logical. Allow companies to draw from the pool of names. That way people are accounted for and taxes are paid. Instead of them just wondering around looking for work, have the work invite them here and make the employers follow federal guidelines. If they are not working then there is not much reason to give them a pass to stay. IMHO, most of the Hispanics I know do not intend to stay in the US for much longer then they need to anyhow. They want to make enough money for whatever and go back home.

Allow them to come for 1 year periods provided they can pass a background check. Allow no more than 2-1yr periods every 5 years.
There are better ways but I think trying to force them to stay out just isn't gonna work. The govt and American citizens might as well make peace with that and somehow find a way where it is beneficial to everyone.

[grouser68]

Something else I just saw on the news. I was watching Fox and Friends while ago and they reported that at several of the rallies Sunday and Monday the democrat party had set up several voter registration booths. They were registering voters as democrats and more than a few were illegal aliens.

Hmm, color me computer illiterate! Help me out here Wildcat.I can't find any news organization on the net that reported the Democratic party was registering any "illegal" immigrants to vote.I had heard that was practiced in Florida and Texas during certain elections, not by the Democrats though. But, that would be purely a rumor since I can't seem to find proof of that on the net either. Please direct me to where I can find that info, as a Democrat if that is actually happening I would very much like to see charges brought against those involved.We need to keep our party's in check as best as we can. I would love to see honor and integrity make a comeback to all the political party's.

[Art]

Hmm, color me computer illiterate! Help me out here Wildcat.I can't find any news organization on the net that reported the Democratic party was registering any "illegal" immigrants to vote.I had heard that was practiced in Florida and Texas during certain elections, not by the Democrats though. But, that would be purely a rumor since I can't seem to find proof of that on the net either. Please direct me to where I can find that info, as a Democrat if that is actually happening I would very much like to see charges brought against those involved.We need to keep our party's in check as best as we can. I would love to see honor and integrity make a comeback to all the political party's.

Bottom line is that BOTH parties want the Latino vote very badly these days and thats why everyone is moving so cautiously. I have not heard of either party "rigging" anything in past elections or registering illegals to vote. Both of those senarios sound like political BS to me.

I had heard that the Democratic party had set up voter registration booths at some rallies (for legals) BUT if that's the case I'm sure Republicans were doing the same things so I think that's a non-issue, just typical politics.

[Tom Borck]

Pretty simple to understand: Legal vs. Illegal

I guess if we don't like current DUI laws we can all protest and maybe they will change it?:rolleyes:

[grouser68]

Bottom line is that BOTH parties want the Latino vote very badly these days and thats why everyone is moving so cautiously. I have not heard of either party "rigging" anything in past elections or registering illegals to vote. Both of those senarios sound like political BS to me.

I had heard that the Democratic party had set up voter registration booths at some rallies (for legals) BUT if that's the case I'm sure Republicans were doing the same things so I think that's a non-issue, just typical politics.

The Fox news quoted a political activast making those accusations, The actual news agency made no such claims, they had no proof. Just wild accusations by wild people wanting their 15 minutes.Anyway, I live in an area that has very, very few hispanic's,if any of them were "illegals" I would'nt even know it. This issue is now in the soptlight and has people thinking. Everyones opinions seem to vary, I really have'nt thought about it, I suppose because here locally it does'nt really affect me.
Hey, just back from a month and half of Army training, good to see all you guys.....missed ya!

[aceoky]

Think back to the NAFTA deal........soon there will be NO physical borders at all.....one big Nation from Canada to Mexico.....just watch and see! :)

Look at how many European Nations no longer have their own currency, the Euro has replaced them, their borders are also beginning to disapear....coincidence?