Military rules for non-military (civilan)

[150PandY]

>>Military Rules for Non-Military Personnel
>>
>>"Dear Civilians, "We know that the current state of affairs in our
>>great nation have many civilians up in arms and excited to join the military.
>>For those of you who can't join, you can still lend a hand. Here are a
>>few of the areas where we would like your assistance, OR, if your just
>>one of those people that bitch and complain about our current state
>>remember that everything you have ever loved and taken for granted has
>>been based upon war, and the blood was of a service member. so here you go..:
>>
>>(1) The next time you see an adult talking (or wearing a hat) during
>>the playing of the National Anthem---kick their ass.
>>
>>(2) When you witness, firsthand, someone burning the American Flag in
>>protest---kick their ass.
>>
>>(3) Regardless of the rank they held while they served, pay the
>>highest amount of respect to all veterans. If you see anyone doing
>>otherwise, quietly pull them aside and explain how these veterans
>>fought for the very freedom they bask in every second. Enlighten them
>>on the many sacrifices these veterans made to make this Nation great.
>>Then hold them down while a disabled veteran kicks their ass.
>>
>>(4) (GUYS) If you were never in the military, DO NOT pretend that you
>>were. Wearing battle dress uniforms (BDUs), telling others that you
>>used to be "Special Forces," and collecting GI Joe memorabilia, might
>>have been okay when you were seven years old. Now, it will only make
>>you look stupid and get your ass kicked.
>>
>>(5) Next time you come across an Air Force member, do not ask them,
>>"Do you fly a jet?" Not everyone in the Air Force is a pilot. Such
>>ignorance deserves an ass-kicking (children are exempt).
>>
>>(6) If you witness someone calling the US Coast Guard 'non-military',
>>inform them of their mistake---and kick their ass.
>>
>>(7) Next time Old Glory (the US flag) prances by during a parade, get
>>on your damn feet and pay homage to her by placing your hand over your heart.
>>Quietly thank the military member or veteran lucky enough to be
>>carrying her---of course, failure to do either of those could earn you
>>a severe ass-kicking.
>>
>>(8) Don't try to discuss politics with a military member or a veteran.
>>We are Americans, and we all bleed the same, regardless of our party
>>affiliation. Our Chain of Command is to include our Commander-In-Chief
>>(C in C). The President (for those who didn't know) is our C in C
>>regardless of political party. We have no inside track on what happens
>>inside those big important buildings where all those representatives
>>meet. All we know is that when those civilian representatives screw up
>>the situation, they call upon the military to go straighten it out. If
>>you keep asking us the same stupid questions repeatedly, you will get your ass kicked!
>>
>>(9) 'Your mama wears combat boots' never made sense to me---stop
>>saying it! If she did, she would most likely be a vet and therefore,
>>could kick your ass!
>>
>>(10) Bin Laden and the Taliban are not Communists, so stop saying
>>'Let's go kill those Commies!' And stop asking us where he is? Crystal
>>balls are not standard issue in the military. That reminds me---if you
>>see anyone calling those damn psychic phone numbers, let me know, so I
>>can go kick their ass.
>>
>>(11) 'Flyboy' (Air Force), 'Jarhead' (Marines), 'Grunt' (Army), 'Squid'
>>(Navy), 'Puddle Jumpers' (Coast Guard), etc., are terms of endearment
>>we use describing each other. Unless you are a service member or vet,
>>you have not earned the right to use them. That could get your ass kicked.
>>
>>(12) Last, but not least, whether or not you become a member of the
>>military, support our troops and their families. Every Thanksgiving
>>and religious holiday that you enjoy with family and friends, please
>>remember that there are literally thousands of sailors and troops far
>>from home wishing they could be with their families. Thank God for our
>>military and the sacrifices they make every day. Without them, our
>>country would get its ass kicked."
>>
>>"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of
>>the press.
>>"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
>>
>>"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom
>>to demonstrate.
>>
>>"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag,
>>and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to
>>burn the flag."
>>
>>(Please pass this on so I won't have to kick your ass!) "If you can
>>read this, thank a teacher"
>>"If you are reading it in English, thank a veteran."
>
>

[jerry]

Excellent!!!

[Pooge]

Have you or the author of this "piece of work" actually served in the mlitary?

I did not put on my uniform every day for 6+ years to be respected by civilians and wish their a$$es get kicked for any reason. Freedom is what we fight for. I guess you would restrict that freedom for personal pride.

The things that are mentioned here are things that should be done out of respect. Respect is not gained by "kicking someones a$$"

Sorry, this kind of crap offends me.

[Art]

[quote=Pooge]Have you or the author of this "piece of work" actually served in the mlitary?

I did not put on my uniform every day for 6+ years to be respected by civilians and wish their a$$es get kicked for any reason. Freedom is what we fight for. I guess you would restrict that freedom for personal pride.

The things that are mentioned here are things that should be done out of respect. Respect is not gained by "kicking someones a$$"


I'm with you Pooge.

I have nothing but respect for our armed forces. I support every single one of them, literally. I have many friends that are in the military. BUT, I never understood this arrogance that some people in the military like to display against civilians.:confused: Just because I didn't sign up for the Army when I was 18 doesn't make me a pussy, quite the opposite in fact. Any branch of the military would have gladly taken me if I chose to go that route. I have no doubt that I would make as good of a member as anyone ever has. I know I would have been much better then most all of the people I know that joined. Thats why it offends me too. You don't have to be a member of the military to be a strong, respectful person. And being a member of the military does not give anyone the right to degrade or threaten others.

Joining the military is an honorable thing to do, but so is going to school and working hard at a job without relying on uncle Sam to give you a check for the rest of your life. It just pisses me off when I support the military, our troops, and the war and then some people turn around and act like your a pee-on if you are a civilian. Screw that.

[harpp]

[QUOTE=Art
Joining the military is an honorable thing to do, but so is going to school and working hard at a job without relying on uncle Sam to give you a check for the rest of your life. It just pisses me off when I support the military, our troops, and the war and then some people turn around and act like your a pee-on if you are a civilian. Screw that.[/QUOTE]

First off no one is giving me a check for the rest of my life. I earned it for over 20 years of service in the Army. I earned it for going places where others did not want to go. I earned it for being seperated from my family for months on end. I earnded it so YOU and others can say waht you want on a forum. What pisses me off is civilians that think everyone in the military is giving a paycheck for the rest of their lives.

[Pooge]

Art, Harpp is correct. Your post was right on up to the point of "without relying on uncle Sam to give you a check for the rest of your life"... but I dont think you meant it in a bad way...

Nothing is given, everything is earned. Walk a mile in a grunts boots and tell me he does not deserve the check he gets after 20 years of service...

The point of my previous post was simply this..... You are free to make statments bashing civilians for burning flags and wearing hats in church and BDU's or whatever just as they are free to do the things you complain about. But when you start talking about "kicking someones a$$" over it then you are going directly against the oath that those in uniform swore to uphold. Like it or not, they are free to do all of those things and it is our sworn duty to see to it that they can.

[Art]

First off no one is giving me a check for the rest of my life. I earned it for over 20 years of service in the Army. I earned it for going places where others did not want to go. I earned it for being seperated from my family for months on end. I earnded it so YOU and others can say waht you want on a forum. What pisses me off is civilians that think everyone in the military is giving a paycheck for the rest of their lives.

I wasn't really talking about retirement, I was talking about government programs like welfare . If you do something for 20 years, you deserve to get a retirement check, no matter what it is that you did. I'm not knocking anyone for that, it doesn't make any sense.

The way I see it is that civilians and members of the military are equals. They can't co-exist without each other. They each have their role.. That said, it still pisses me off when a member of the military implies that the only reason I can do what I do is because of them. Well, the only reason they can do what they do is because of me. It's a 2 way street, thats just how it works. This could turn into a major debate, but there is no point. I totally support the military, and vets, ect.. I just don't want someone telling me I'm a useless pussy because I didn't serve in the armed forces. There are many more aspects to being a strong, productive member of society other than joining the military. This country would be a better place if we could pat each other on the back instead of trying to compare one another to determine who is better.

[Pooge]

You will get no argument here on that Art :)

Besides, I am more interested in what your signature line means....
Why does a switchback have no memory? Is this a joke flying really high over my head? lol :))

[Art]

Art, Harpp is correct. Your post was right on up to the point of "without relying on uncle Sam to give you a check for the rest of your life"... but I dont think you meant it in a bad way...

Nothing is given, everything is earned. Walk a mile in a grunts boots and tell me he does not deserve the check he gets after 20 years of service...

The point of my previous post was simply this..... You are free to make statments bashing civilians for burning flags and wearing hats in church and BDU's or whatever just as they are free to do the things you complain about. But when you start talking about "kicking someones a$$" over it then you are going directly against the oath that those in uniform swore to uphold. Like it or not, they are free to do all of those things and it is our sworn duty to see to it that they can.

Exactly. I'm sorry if I came across as saying that military members don't deserve what they get for serving. I actually think they should get more. I'm just responding to the same thing you were. Anything that can put up a wall between ANY groups in America is a bad thing. You are exactly right, threatning to kick someones ass for not sharing your own beliefs does just that.

[Art]

You will get no argument here on that Art :)

Besides, I am more interested in what your signature line means....
Why does a switchback have no memory? Is this a joke flying really high over my head? lol :))

Thats a line from my favorite movie, 'The Shawshank Redemption'. Of course, I may have replaced the words "Pacific Ocean" with "Switchback".:D As for a reason, I don't have one other then to see if anyone picked up on it I guess.:confused: :D

[150PandY]

This is not meant to PISS you off or anything like that. It is meant to be a light hearted statement about respect for your country and the flag. I did not write it but I thought it was funny. I guess people on here are a little bit too touchy. YES I am in the military and the 22nd of this month was my 11th year serving I wear the uniform every day. I am proud to be a solider and am proud of the country in which I live.

[PhilpotHunter]

First things first, little things like this are made to help motivate the military, and trust me, civilians want the military to be motivated, we kill more people when we think we are better than everyone else (which we are hands down:D )

Second, I can't really argue about much you said Art, even though I disagree. This is a touchy subject for me, obviously due to me being in the Marines. But I will say this, you making the comment that you would have been better than most of the people you know that went into the service is the biggest line of BS I have heard in awhile. Why you ask? Because YOU DIDN'T GO INTO THE SERVICE!:eek: You saying that if you had.....blaw blah blah is the same (in my opinion) as you telling people you were in the special forces. Actually its worse, because by saying it you are belittling the people that served when you didn't. I don't know why you didn't join, nor do I care. Its your right not to join (a right that has been fought for numerous times) but to say if you had you would have been better that the ones that did is just pompous and egotistical.

You know I love you man, but I couldn't let this slide. No offense was meant at all.

[Art]

First things first, little things like this are made to help motivate the military, and trust me, civilians want the military to be motivated, we kill more people when we think we are better than everyone else (which we are hands down:D )

Second, I can't really argue about much you said Art, even though I disagree. This is a touchy subject for me, obviously due to me being in the Marines. But I will say this, you making the comment that you would have been better than most of the people you know that went into the service is the biggest line of BS I have heard in awhile. Why you ask? Because YOU DIDN'T GO INTO THE SERVICE!:eek: You saying that if you had.....blaw blah blah is the same (in my opinion) as you telling people you were in the special forces. Actually its worse, because by saying it you are belittling the people that served when you didn't. I don't know why you didn't join, nor do I care. Its your right not to join (a right that has been fought for numerous times) but to say if you had you would have been better that the ones that did is just pompous and egotistical.

You know I love you man, but I couldn't let this slide. No offense was meant at all.

No offense taken. I just say that because I know lots of people who served and many that still are. I'm not saying that I am better than anyone, I'm ONLY taking about some of the people I have known who have served. Some are great people that could have done anything they wanted. Others were not, they joined for the simple fact that they had no choice because they didn't have the skills, self motivation, or whatever to do anything else. People that ran up 10's of thousands in credit card bills who needed a way out and had no other choice. People who were going to end up in jail if they didn't have someone MAKE them into something. I've seen it all. Most of the people I know who joined did not join to fight for freedom, they joined as a way out of whatever situation they were in and never expected to put their lives in danger. Thats not me being egotistical, they will tell you that themselves. On the flip side, I also know a Navy S.E.A.L who was and is TOTALLY prepared to die for his country. I have total respect for him, and I'm proud to call him a friend.

I would never tell someone that I was in the military if I wasn't. That is disrespectful and to be honest, that very thing cost me a good friend of many years. I would never tell anyone that I was something I'm not regardless.. I don't think that me saying I would have been a good member is even close to that. Just my opinion. I say that I would have been a good member because I possess the traits needed to do so. One of my best friends is active right now and he tells me all the time that I missed my calling.. Many people I know did not possess these traits and still made it. Call me selfish or whatever, but I cannot sit here and honestly say that I don't think I could have made it in the Army, Marines, ect.., and I am not going to believe it if someone else tells me that either. It's not a slight on those who did or are serving and I certainly don't mean it that way, it's just me being honest based on my life experiences and the people I have known that have joined. I could have done it if I wanted to. I don't see the harm in saying that. People tell me all the time that I should have been a cop, and I think I would have been a good one, but I doubt any police take offense to that comment.

What it boils down to is that I have more respect for our military and it's members then most anyone. I don't ever want to slight anything or anyone who is a member. It just like anything else in life though, I know enough about the world to be able to make a statement as to how I see things based on my own experiences. Anyone that really knows me would tell you that I would never intentionally disrepect a member of the armed forces.

[harpp]

I'm ONLY taking about some of the people I have known who have served. Some are great people that could have done anything they wanted. Others were not, they joined for the simple fact that they had no choice because they didn't have the skills, self motivation, or whatever to do anything else. People that ran up 10's of thousands in credit card bills who needed a way out and had no other choice. People who were going to end up in jail if they didn't have someone MAKE them into something. I've seen it all. Most of the people I know who joined did not join to fight for freedom, they joined as a way out of whatever situation they were in and never expected to put their lives in danger. .

What it boils down to is that I have more respect for our military and it's members then most anyone. I don't ever want to slight anything or anyone who is a member. It just like anything else in life though, I know enough about the world to be able to make a statement as to how I see things based on my own experiences. Anyone that really knows me would tell you that I would never intentionally disrepect a member of the armed forces.

Art you need to stop while you are ahead. You are just like most people that think the military is a last resort. People that can't do anything else can join the military. Well I was a recruiter for 10 years and I can tell you it is not a last resort. Not sure what the numbers are but for ever one kid I put in the Army I had 10 that were not qualified for medical issues, law violations. educations. Now the part about people not joining to fight have to disagree with you on that also. I was in the infantry the first 10 years of my service. I joined right out of high school. While serving in the infantry I had college graduates, lawyers and others servfing right next to me they didn't need to join they joined for something called Service To Country. Every kid that joins the service now sure better be expecting to fight in a war. We are shipping thousands of them to IRAQ everyday.

[Art]

Harpp, I'm not saying that. You guys are putting words into my mouth. I know that the military gets some of the best and brightest, if not the best sometimes. I also am a realist, I know that a good number of them do join because they can't do much else. I know all about it, I know people that were losers before they joined and were losers when they got out. I have 2 friends who are Marine recruiters as well and they have never made any bones with me about what they consider to be a good possible recruit and how they perform their job....

I know it's not a last resort for most, but I can give you the names and numbers of many people I have known who will tell you straight up that it was for them personally. This comes from what I have seen from people I have known for many years. This is reality as I have seen it, so it's hard for me to have someone tell me that what I have seen and what I know is wrong. I'm not meaning any disrespect to you guys, but you know how I am. I have to stand up for myself and I'll keep running my mouth until I get my point across, and so will Philpot so we might be here for a while so go get a Snickers.:D

[PhilpotHunter]

I cannot sit here and honestly say that I don't think I could have made it in the Army, Marines, ect

Well, with no disrespect intended, it not hard to sit behind your computer and say " I could have if I wanted to" but is a whole other thing to do it.

If I had a dollar for every civilian that told me they could have been a Marine "if they wanted to" I'd be a rich man. But not one of those people really understands what it takes or what it means to be a Marine.
No offense, just a fact

[Art]

Well, with no disrespect intended, it not hard to sit behind your computer and say " I could have if I wanted to" but is a whole other thing to do it.

If I had a dollar for every civilian that told me they could have been a Marine "if they wanted to" I'd be a rich man. But not one of those people really understands what it takes or what it means to be a Marine.
No offense, just a fact

Alright then, I'll put the ball in your court. Explain to me how you know that I could not do it. Your are correct in saying I don't understand what it means not having done it, but I'm curious to know what would prevent me from being successful if I had chosen to do it. I'd like to know what all the people I have known that did do it can do that I cannot.

Philpot, come on now. What if I were to tell you that I know you could not have been a cop, a fireman, a truck driver, ect.. On what grounds would I have to make that assumption? Thats like me sitting here and saying you could never be a UPS driver, because I've done it and you have not. I just know you could not do it... That's not right. It might make me feel good about myself to tell you that, but there is no way for me to know it as a fact.

[PhilpotHunter]

I don't know that you COULDN'T do it, but I do know that the odds are against you, and I'm not saying that to "make myself feel better". I'm a Marine, there is no better feeling in the world.

Wether or not you could or could not isn't the issue. The issue is you didn't, so you don't "rate" the luxury of saying you could if you wanted to. Thats a cop out my friend.

Why can't civilians just be happy knowing that there are people out there that DID DO IT, why do they think they have to prove themselves?

[PhilpotHunter]

thats it for today but trust me, I'm not done with this topic and I know Art isn't either

[b1jeremy]

man 150 what have you done lol...i can proudly say that i was in the military and i miss it everyday...but my hat goes off to my brothers overseas as well as state side...so ill let you guys have it i am all debated out...good luck and God Bless America and our boys...

[Art]

I don't know that you COULDN'T do it, but I do know that the odds are against you, and I'm not saying that to "make myself feel better". I'm a Marine, there is no better feeling in the world.

Wether or not you could or could not isn't the issue. The issue is you didn't, so you don't "rate" the luxury of saying you could if you wanted to. Thats a cop out my friend.

Why can't civilians just be happy knowing that there are people out there that DID DO IT, why do they think they have to prove themselves?

I have nothing to prove. Joining the military when I was 18 was not in my best interest. My college was paid for and I wanted to study biology. I had a single mother and a younger brother who really depended on me. To leave for the military would have been running away from what I wanted to do as well as the things that needed me. The military offered me nothing that I wasn't able to get on my own or didn't already have. There were no wars, so it wasn't like I was just scared to fight.

What I'm trying to say is that life is full of death, loss, hardship, work, pain, ect. You don't need to be in the military to experience hardships and trauma in life. It just gets to me when someone tells me that I couldn't cut it in the military. Knowing some of the things that I have been through in my life. Some of the things I had to deal with as a child tells me that I can handle just about anything. There are many strong and brave people in the military, but there are many more in the civilian world. For one group to act like it is above the other is pointless. I bothers me that I have been told that I have not "earned" the right to say what I think. Like the military has it so rough, that anyone who is not a member should not even dare to say their own name in the same sentance with someone who is a member. It bothers me to think that it is looked at as being disrepectful if I say I think I could have been a good soldier. I mean how arrogant is that?

[Auk1124]

Well for my two pennies, I kinda see both sides of this issue. The military folks have a right to be proud of their service, and don't think anyone can really know what it is like to serve unless they have been there and done that. But at the same time I can see what the other side is, as well - respect is earned, not automatically given just because someone puts on a particular uniform or whatever.

I know the first post here was tongue in cheek but to non-military people it kinda jokingly hinted at "kiss our a$$ or we will kick yours" and I think that is the sticking point. And I also disagree that soldiers "gave" us our freedom of press, speech, etc. - our democratic form of government "gave" us those freedoms. Soldiers give us security, but our Constitution gives us freedom. Just my thoughts on the subject.

[trust me]

Jumping in this one is against my better judgment, but here goes...

I was 17 with no money, no skills, and not at all sure what I was going to do. I knew the service would pay for college, and that looked pretty good. I was a good student with scholarship money, but not enough. I figured I could pull a couple years and get the education paid for.

The recruiters couldn't leave me alone. 6'1", 190 pounds, cut and ripped. Athletic, outdoorsman, excellent grades, no problems, just what they were looking for. Until they found out I was blind as a bat, deaf as a post. Suddenly, I was out of options. They didn't want me.

But I had friends that went. A couple made careers of it. Some got their fill in Grenada and Panama and got out; one was a Ranger. One got thrown out.

As far as what it takes to be in the military, I say the standards aren't as high as some think. I know total losers that made careers in the Navy and Marines. Losers when they went in, losers when they came out. They may have conformed and walked the line while in the service, but their lives came apart when they came home. I know a few that went Army as well. None made careers out of being grunts. One would have, but got downsized in 91 after we quit worrying about the Fulda Gap. One stayed in the Guard and then switched to Reserves in 96. He may be in Iraq now, not sure.

I have a deep appreciation for anyone that serves their country, even the losers. But it doesn't make them better. It's just a choice they made, to be in the military. There are lots of ways you can serve your country. I made a choice 22 years ago to be a volunteer firefighter, and that's some dangerous crap at times too. But that doesn't make me better. It's just something I want to do. I don't demand respect or anything. (If I did it for respect and admiration, I'd have quit after 20 minutes.)

I guess I have trouble with someone telling me I must respect someone because of what they do. Respect comes from what you are.

[maxcam]

I do think that folks that burn the American Flag in this country need to have their a** kicked......I realize that it is a perverted method of pronouncing your freedom of speech.....But to be quiet honest if the US flag doesnt deserve more reverance than that then why have we placed on the beaches of Normandy and Iwo Jima or the North Pole or the moon....If Ol Glory doesnt mean that much then why is it placed over the coffin of an American that has fallen protecting the basic rights that She represents!

[jarhedhntr]

You guys know that I have nothing but love for you so take this as you will, and yes I am preaching. First of all, the original post was funny, which was the point I think. Secondly, Art, whether you could or couldn't have is a mute point because you didn't. The fact that you think the military didn't have anything to offer that you couldn't get on your own is niave. I don't expect you to agree, because you have no idea what the military has to offer, and heres a hint it isn't in any recruiting commercial, flyer, website or any other medium that could be printed or spoken. Next to whomever it was that thinks that they don't owe ALL of there freedoms to thier military and veterans. Do you truly think that all we have today is not owed to the first AMERICAN's that stood up and said NO to the crown and shed their blood to defend their decision. There would be no Democracy with out someone to protect it from those who don't like it. Your every action, everyday is owed to those that stand watch over you and every thing you take for granted and tell those that would end your way of life, "TRY IT AND I WILL KICK YOU ASS".

[maxcam]

You guys know that I have nothing but love for you so take this as you will, and yes I am preaching. First of all, the original post was funny, which was the point I think. Secondly, Art, whether you could or couldn't have is a mute point because you didn't. The fact that you think the military didn't have anything to offer that you couldn't get on your own is niave. I don't expect you to agree, because you have no idea what the military has to offer, and heres a hint it isn't in any recruiting commercial, flyer, website or any other medium that could be printed or spoken. Next to whomever it was that thinks that they don't owe ALL of there freedoms to thier military and veterans. Do you truly think that all we have today is not owed to the first AMERICAN's that stood up and said NO to the crown and shed their blood to defend their decision. There would be no Democracy with out someone to protect it from those who don't like it. Your every action, everyday is owed to those that stand watch over you and every thing you take for granted and tell those that would end your way of life, "TRY IT AND I WILL KICK YOU ASS".

Uhhhh Nuff said .........

[naturalelite]

I love jarheads. I wasn't in the military but I have two cousins that joined and they were both marines and I can still kick their butts up and down any road any time of the day. So bring it on Jarhead..........Seriously guys if you don't say thank you to every vet you see or talk to you should have your butt kicked. I thank my dad, uncle, and cousins as often as I can for giving me the freedoms that I have. I am just glad I could hit a baseball or I would have probably joined also and been over there now instead of with my daughter. Thank to all that have and are serving

[Art]

You guys know that I have nothing but love for you so take this as you will, and yes I am preaching. First of all, the original post was funny, which was the point I think. Secondly, Art, whether you could or couldn't have is a mute point because you didn't. The fact that you think the military didn't have anything to offer that you couldn't get on your own is niave. I don't expect you to agree, because you have no idea what the military has to offer, and heres a hint it isn't in any recruiting commercial, flyer, website or any other medium that could be printed or spoken. Next to whomever it was that thinks that they don't owe ALL of there freedoms to thier military and veterans. Do you truly think that all we have today is not owed to the first AMERICAN's that stood up and said NO to the crown and shed their blood to defend their decision. There would be no Democracy with out someone to protect it from those who don't like it. Your every action, everyday is owed to those that stand watch over you and every thing you take for granted and tell those that would end your way of life, "TRY IT AND I WILL KICK YOU ASS".

Well, being that I have a number of friends and family who have served, I think I have a pretty decent idea what the military has to offer aside from what the recruiting commercials might say. That said, what I wanted and what was best for me was not offered by the military. Thats all I'm saying.

[keith meador]

jeff, i read your post as funny, i do have a scewed sense of humor like that, but i am also a realist, and whoopin up on someone is really not an option. i know you did not write the words, you only posted them for us to see. dont kill the messenger i know.....

as for service in the military, every day that i get up i miss it. every time i visit with my old unit, the familiar faces are gone, time has been served and folks move on. the kids are replacing the old farts like me, they do look younger than i ever thought i did as a young man....getting off of an airplane after a deployment and seeing family for the first time in many months was always a joy, getting on airplanes was always hard....my old unit got split up few years ago, one detatchment just got home from iraq, the other just left for iraq....i am a grown man with a wonderful familiy, and it brings great joy to me to know that the young men and women put their hand in the air and take the oath for me and my family, as well as all americans. different opinions are one of the things they fight for every day. from the little spats on this forum, to the heated debates on capital hill.

i have seen every kind of kid imaginable thru the years, they join for many reasons, but the sacrafice is the same in the end. in one of the courses at fort eustis we had such diversity, an indian named dewayne claw, who joined to get off the reservation, a mexican american man named robert lopez who spelled his name wrong on the final exam, brian hapner, the son of one of the commanders during grenada who was a lt. col....brian joined because he only knew the military, he didnt know people went to school and got jobs....michael lesefka, worked on the new york stock exchange as a courier, joined because the military would cover medical expenses for him and his wife.....the reasons go on and on, i joined because i failed to take one of the many scholorship offers i had to play basketball, and didnt go to college and get a free education. one of my pals told the military would teach me what i needed to know.....my father, a former marine, was proud the day he got my basic training photo in the mail....

i dont fault people for not joining, there are as many reasons for not joining as there are for the ones who did.....i am just thankful that we do live in a free country and have the ability to sit and talk about it...for those who did join, thank you for your contribution to my freedom, for those who did not, thank you for your support while i did my part.

[jarhedhntr]

Don't get me wrong guys, I don't fault anyone that doesn't join. That is a huge decision not made lightly. I just don't like hearing people compare it to any other job in the world and think they owe nothing to their vets. Not matter the reason a person joins, they still agree to give up many freedoms that they swear to protect. Sure, they might have joined for selfish reasons (not going to prison, no other options), but the service they provided was the most unselfish there is. I joined because I was screwing up for a 3rd time at college and wanted to straighten up (hell it worked for Philpothunter, it could work for me), but ultimately I offered up my life to protect others and I knew that. I knew that if it came down to it I would be sent to do what our leaders said, regardless of my opinion, and could possible die for my country. When one of my brother or sisters are killed in war, peacetime, combat or training, they are dieing for us, their country, not the cause but for the values the swore to uphold. Not for the politician behind the desk but for you and me.

NEVER FORGET.
ALL GAVE SOME, SOME GAVE ALL.

[Art]

Don't get me wrong guys, I don't fault anyone that doesn't join. That is a huge decision not made lightly. I just don't like hearing people compare it to any other job in the world and think they owe nothing to their vets. Not matter the reason a person joins, they still agree to give up many freedoms that they swear to protect. Sure, they might have joined for selfish reasons (not going to prison, no other options), but the service they provided was the most unselfish there is. I joined because I was screwing up for a 3rd time at college and wanted to straighten up (hell it worked for Philpothunter, it could work for me), but ultimately I offered up my life to protect others and I knew that. I knew that if it came down to it I would be sent to do what our leaders said, regardless of my opinion, and could possible die for my country. When one of my brother or sisters are killed in war, peacetime, combat or training, they are dieing for us, their country, not the cause but for the values the swore to uphold. Not for the politician behind the desk but for you and me.

NEVER FORGET.
ALL GAVE SOME, SOME GAVE ALL.

I agree with you about all that. I just want to add 2 things. I never said it was just like any other job, and I never said I owed nothing to vets. I do, but I also owe a lot to many, many people that are not in the military just as you do as well. I have as much, if not more respect for cops, teachers, doctors, ect.. Like I said in an earlier post, it takes civilians and military to make a great country, not just one group.

All other stuff aside, I stand by my opinion of myself and I respect yours. Whether you were an Army cook or you work as a lawyer and provide thousands of dollars each year in taxes so that we can HAVE a military, I thank you.

[schuyler olt]

jeff, i read your post as funny, i do have a scewed sense of humor like that, but i am also a realist, and whoopin up on someone is really not an option. i know you did not write the words, you only posted them for us to see. dont kill the messenger i know.....

as for service in the military, every day that i get up i miss it. every time i visit with my old unit, the familiar faces are gone, time has been served and folks move on. the kids are replacing the old farts like me, they do look younger than i ever thought i did as a young man....getting off of an airplane after a deployment and seeing family for the first time in many months was always a joy, getting on airplanes was always hard....my old unit got split up few years ago, one detatchment just got home from iraq, the other just left for iraq....i am a grown man with a wonderful familiy, and it brings great joy to me to know that the young men and women put their hand in the air and take the oath for me and my family, as well as all americans. different opinions are one of the things they fight for every day. from the little spats on this forum, to the heated debates on capital hill.

i have seen every kind of kid imaginable thru the years, they join for many reasons, but the sacrafice is the same in the end. in one of the courses at fort eustis we had such diversity, an indian named dewayne claw, who joined to get off the reservation, a mexican american man named robert lopez who spelled his name wrong on the final exam, brian hapner, the son of one of the commanders during grenada who was a lt. col....brian joined because he only knew the military, he didnt know people went to school and got jobs....michael lesefka, worked on the new york stock exchange as a courier, joined because the military would cover medical expenses for him and his wife.....the reasons go on and on, i joined because i failed to take one of the many scholorship offers i had to play basketball, and didnt go to college and get a free education. one of my pals told the military would teach me what i needed to know.....my father, a former marine, was proud the day he got my basic training photo in the mail....

i dont fault people for not joining, there are as many reasons for not joining as there are for the ones who did.....i am just thankful that we do live in a free country and have the ability to sit and talk about it...for those who did join, thank you for your contribution to my freedom, for those who did not, thank you for your support while i did my part.

Fantastic post.

[150PandY]

Like I said this post was suppose to be light hearted and funny. It wasnt saying that military should kick everyones asses it was saying that as civilians if you see someone disrespecting our country or the flag or what we belive in and died for, KICK THEIR ASS!! Thats what its about not people in the military kicking someones ass.

[Auk1124]

Next to whomever it was that thinks that they don't owe ALL of there freedoms to thier military and veterans. Do you truly think that all we have today is not owed to the first AMERICAN's that stood up and said NO to the crown and shed their blood to defend their decision.

Well, no disrespect intended, but that was kinda my point. The modern military is a lot different from those first Americans. Most were not professional military folks at all, just farmers, businessmen, doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc. who were tired of the old form of government inherited from Europe, and who had the guts and the brains to stand up and do something about it. I realize our modern military springs from those roots but really the American Revolution was as much a political and intellectual revolt as it was a military action. Maybe moreso, because we all know without the military and financial assistance of France it is doubtful whether our break from England would have been successful.

There would be no Democracy with out someone to protect it from those who don't like it. Your every action, everyday is owed to those that stand watch over you and every thing you take for granted and tell those that would end your way of life, "TRY IT AND I WILL KICK YOU ASS".

Again, that was my point as well. Our military gives us security in our way of life, and for that I am eternally grateful. But it is our Constitution that gives us the freedom we enjoy every day. Our military is not the grantors of our freedom, but the insurers of it. Just my take on it.

[PhilpotHunter]

Here is a post that only a Marine will understand, but it says everything.
I have something that less than one percent of the US population can claim as there own, something that strikes fear thru the hearts of America's enemies. Something that was born in a bar many many many years ago, and that will outlive us all. I am a Marine. And for anyone on here to say I could have, would have, or should have, just doesn't cut it. Why? Because talk is cheap.

I also understand that this post is very arrogant, but I'll quote Drill Instructor Sgt. Famy (a mean little son of a bitch from my Paris Island days) "Its hard to be humble when your the best"

[Art]

Here is a post that only a Marine will understand, but it says everything.
I have something that less than one percent of the US population can claim as there own, something that strikes fear thru the hearts of America's enemies. Something that was born in a bar many many many years ago, and that will outlive us all. I am a Marine. And for anyone on here to say I could have, would have, or should have, just doesn't cut it. Why? Because talk is cheap.

I also understand that this post is very arrogant, but I'll quote Drill Instructor Sgt. Famy (a mean little son of a bitch from my Paris Island days) "Its hard to be humble when your the best"

I don't think it's arrogant personally. I thought you were talking about my girlfriend for a second.:D

Seriously, it's only arrogant if you are directing it at someone who wanted to be a Marine, but couldn't for some reason. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your accomplishments. I'm proud of mine.

I've got a real good homie of mine who was a Staff Sgt. in the Marines coming over tomorrow to drink some Bourbon with me, I'll be sure and bring this thread up to him after we've knocked back a couple and get his take on it.:D Philpot and Jarhead, I know one of you (maybe both) were in Japan for a while. That's were he was for the last 4 years, I'll ask him if he knows either one of you damn cat killers.:D

[jarhedhntr]

Ok, the cats have been spared lately, just dumped in other neighborhoods. I spent 1 1/2 in Okinawa, from 2000 to 2001. Tell you Devil Dog friend that I said hey and Semper Fi.

[trust me]

I'll say this for the Marines. They got the best uniforms going in the Armed Services. An old WWII army guy explained it this way:

"They get the crappiest jobs, the crappiest pay, and the crappiest living conditions. They make them feel better by giving them the sharpest uniforms."

I do know one little turd they let slip in that they shouldn't have. He's out now.

[Hallal]

Like I said this post was suppose to be light hearted and funny. It wasnt saying that military should kick everyones asses it was saying that as civilians if you see someone disrespecting our country or the flag or what we belive in and died for, KICK THEIR ASS!! Thats what its about not people in the military kicking someones ass.

wait...I'm confused. Did you say military can't kick a civi's A$$. That's it meet me in the parking lot, lets go for a ride and see!!!! JK

Come on guys calm down a bit. Those of us that served are proud of it. Those of you who didn't ....didn't, and that's okay. You might have made a good soldier/grunt/seamen/etc. who knows? I believe most will agree though it is hard to presume what kind of soldier (good or bad) you would have been unless you sign the paper and take the oath.

[150PandY]

wait...I'm confused. Did you say military can't kick a civi's A$$. That's it meet me in the parking lot, lets go for a ride and see!!!! JK

Come on guys calm down a bit. Those of us that served are proud of it. Those of you who didn't ....didn't, and that's okay. You might have made a good soldier/grunt/seamen/etc. who knows? I believe most will agree though it is hard to presume what kind of soldier (good or bad) you would have been unless you sign the paper and take the oath.

"Hall" I think you need to stop serfing the web on hunting forums during work.

[Hallal]

Come on 150, it's those helpful civilian tax dollars paying our salary. we could show our thanks one person at a time lol

[eDuck]

I've got a real good homie of mine who was a Staff Sgt. in the Marines coming over tomorrow to drink some Bourbon with me, I'll be sure and bring this thread up to him after we've knocked back a couple and get his take on it.


Be carefull, you might get your a$$ kicked!:D :D

Army 82-85, Dix, Devens, Kunia 05H

[Art]

Be carefull, you might get your a$$ kicked!:D :D

Army 82-85, Dix, Devens, Kunia 05H

He knows better then to try that! I'm twice his size.:D

[PhilpotHunter]

He knows better then to try that! I'm twice his size.:D

my money is on the Marine

[Art]

my money is on the Marine

How much money you got? :D We've been through this before.:D

[PhilpotHunter]

How much money you got? :D We've been through this before.:D

enough to keep betting on the Marine if need be:D

[Art]

enough to keep betting on the Marine if need be:D

If you have that much extra cash, you should buy yourself a REAL truck! Oooops! WRONG THREAD!:eek: :D :D

[jarhedhntr]

I am with Philpot, my money is on the Marine. It's the little ones you've got to be scared of.

[RUTNUT]

I Love My Country, I Love Our Military, And I Love Our Freedom That Was Upheld By Our Military. That Being Said Doesn't Threats Of A$$ Kicking Over Every Little Thing That Doesn't Go Your Way Exactly What Your Fighting Against. I Agree Some Of Those Things Deserve An A$$ Kicking, But One Must Realize It Is A Freedom, Well Except The Flag Burning Issue, That May Call For Some Rectom Rearranging IF IT HAPPENS IN MY PRECENCE. Besides Some Of Them Ol Boys Might Not Take To A A$$ Kicking. They May Think It Is Better To Give Than Receive.

[OUTBACK]

I understand this post was only meant for fun and jokes, but somethings will offend on here and it's gonna happen, but I am with Art on this one. I too was about to go to the military, but decided no to because of having a family now. But I believe in myself and and say that i would have been a good soldier and thats the truth mainly because of the way I have been raised with the background of my family. And for you guys that have been in the military I respect you and you know more than I know about being in the service, but you can't say whether or not Art or myself would have been good soldiers or not.

I respect my veterans and the flag and would never degrate it for any reason whatsoever. I do thank my buddies that fought in the war and respect them for what they have done.

When you posted this I think that you should have mentioned that you were just posting this for fun or something then no one would be arguing over this. I mean it just like the post aobut shooting deer with a freaking cannon. I didn't agree with that and don't think that it is cool and stated my reasons why and why it shouldn't be on this forum of rour own protection from PETA and other animals activist.

And I don't know for sure who my money would be on, but Art seems to know this guy pretty well and said he has been through this before so my money goes on him. And besides jst because you were in the military means you can kick my ass.

[Art]

Yep, the only conclusion to this is that there is no real conclusion. My opinion is that no one knows someone better then they know themself. I have as much respect for the military as anyone, even though I never served. That said, I don't think being in the military automatically makes someone smarter, tougher, better, ect. then someone who is not a member.. .

I support those that join, and I support those that don't. It's all good as long as we all support each other as Americans.

[PhilpotHunter]

well, no offense intended, but it sure is easy to say "I would have been a good whatever" when you didn't even try, and whether you like it or not, that comment is demeaning to our troops.

[Hallal]

This one is going to be a hard argument for us service members to let go. I don't recall any of us troops telling any civilians they couldn't be a good soldier. We've simply pointed out that you didn't sign up so you have not been tested.

I know many recruiters though. In the military we step off on the left, follow me I'll lead the way if you want to give it a try. It will change your life.

[Art]

well, no offense intended, but it sure is easy to say "I would have been a good whatever" when you didn't even try, and whether you like it or not, that comment is demeaning to our troops.

Philpot, I've had to try to write this post several times in a way in which it comes out right, but I can't... I think we'll just have to disagree on this one. I respect your opinion, but I will say that out of all of my friends and family that are either current OR former members, you are the only one I know that thinks it's disrepctful for me to say that I think I could have made it in the military if I chose to go that route. That said, if you think I'm being disrepectful, then I propbably ought to not argue this anymore at the risk of being even more disrepectful in your eyes. At this point you are all but saying that I'm not even worthy enough to have an opinion on the military, let alone voice it (which seems a bit odd)...... I do think it's fair to say that I know more about the military and what it involves then you know about me, my character, and my abilities.

[PhilpotHunter]

Philpot, I've had to try to write this post several times in a way in which it comes out right, but I can't... I think we'll just have to disagree on this one.

I'll agree to disagree


I respect your opinion, but I will say that out of all of my friends and family that are either current OR former members, you are the only one I know that thinks it's disrepctful for me to say that I think I could have made it in the military if I chose to go that route.

Its not disrespectful to say that, but it is disrespectful to say you could have been "better" than someone else you know who did go in.


At this point you are all but saying that I'm not even worthy enough to have an opinion on the military, let alone voice it (which seems a bit odd).......

Not saying that at all. That is one of the wonderful things the military protects, your right to have and voice an opinion. I'm just saying that I totally disagree with it.

I do think it's fair to say that I know more about the military and what it involves then you know about me, my character, and my abilities.

Again, I'll agree with you on this. I don't know enough about you to be able to say whether or not I think you would have done well, but again, thats not the argument. The argument is you saying you think you could have done better than someone who did go in, when you didn't. Thats where I can't let down.

Some people act like they "could" have been a Marine, and as a Marine that does bother me. Not just anyone could be a Marine, its not a title that is handed out with some money for college, its a title worn proudly and its something you earn with blood, sweat and tears. So to say I could have if I wanted to, to me, is insulting.

[Art]

Ok Philpot, here's the deal. I worded my original statement wrong, and no matter what I say it will not change what I'm saying in your eyes. I think you might be going to a bit of an extreme when comparing the military to college though.. NOT a good analogy..:D

That said, I understand what you are saying. It is unfair for me to say I would have been "better" . I didn't mean to imply that, because the situations I speak of are based my own personal experiences. I *think* you find it disrespectful because you think I'm making a broad, general statement.. I'm not, it is based on my personal knowledge and experiences with certain specific people. Afterall, how can one judge what exactly makes someone better?

I'd rather not get into specifics in public here, but if you would like to discuss this through PM I will be happy to go into detail as to why I feel the way I do and talk to you about the people I know. I apologize for what I consider to be a misunderstanding.:)

[PhilpotHunter]

I apologize for what I consider to be a misunderstanding.:)

And I apologize for being so extreme about it. I'm told often that I have trouble being a civilian, and this is a subject that is near and dear to my heart, so obviously I am touchy about it. Hell, call me a republican before you mess with my Corps:D

I didn't mean to "imply" anything about you as a person, sorry if you took it that way.

[Art]

Hell, call me a republican.

Yeah right, Hillary!:D

[KYCatBirdHunter]

I fail to see how it's disrespectful to say that I could have been a Marine. I could have been a teacher. How many teachers are offended by that? I could have been a doctor. Raise your hand if you're a doctor and that offends you. Now why is it that the military is up on some pedestal, as if they're a superior class of society, one of which the lowly peasants and serfs dare not mention the name or imply equality? I'm sick of this.

Oh, and by the way, I respect the military as much as anyone else, but there are some real ho-handles that make it through their tours just like anything else.

[PhilpotHunter]

I fail to see how it's disrespectful to say that I could have been a Marine.

Because talk is cheap


as if they're a superior class of society, one of which the lowly peasants and serfs dare not mention the name or imply equality? I'm sick of this.

Well, hate to break it to you but Marines are a "higher class of society" and if this bothers you tuff shit:) Until you have EARNED the right to call yourself a Marine I wouldn't expect you to understand, so go ahead and get offended, but sleep well tonight knowing that a "higher class of society" are on the frontlines protecting your butt.

Oh, and by the way, I respect the military as much as anyone else, but there are some real ho-handles that make it through their tours just like anything else.

Just as I respect civilians as much as anyone else. But I bet you there are more civilian "ho-handles" that just "make it through their tours" of life than Marines. And as a Marine to a civilian, your welcome for giving you that option.:D

[trust me]

Higher class? Goodness me, not always. I know a turd that became a Marine, and another turd that stayed in the Navy for years. I don't know how they fared in the service, but they are bums out here in civilian life. Won't work, won't support their kids, they lie and cheat. Neither of them are anything we would aspire to be.

They are hopefully rare, isolated examples, but proof nonetheless that there are exceptions to every rule.

[PhilpotHunter]

there are exceptions to every rule.

I agree with this. My point was that there are a lot more turd civilians than Marines.

[Art]

I agree with this. My point was that there are a lot more turd civilians than Marines.

I would argue that if you are a turd, it will show in the Marines and in the Civilian word. The ratios are meaningless for the obvious reasons.. All Marines are civilians for the better portion of their lives.
I will argue til the day I die that being a Civilian can be, and often is just as hard, if not harder then being in the military. True, I may not have any experience to back that up but I know that NOTHING comes easy in life. Life itself will test you and be harder on you then anything else.

[PhilpotHunter]

All Marines are civilians for the better portion of their lives.


Wrong

Not as Lean, Not as Mean, BUT ALWAYS A MARINE

[Art]

Wrong

Not as Lean, Not as Mean, BUT ALWAYS A MARINE

You know what I mean. You still have to do the same things as everyone else in life. You sound like the Marine Recruiter that used to live at my house.:D He always had those catchy little sayings that he would use.:D

[PhilpotHunter]

You sound like the Marine Recruiter that used to live at my house.:D He always had those catchy little sayings that he would use.:D

I'm one of the many that still holds onto the Marine teachings, can't help it, hell I still get a high and tight hair cut:D

Once a Marine Always a Marine