The farmers are at it again, is nothing sacred?

[Taxi Mike]

Can you believe it? I found this 2 miles from KY, Right across the border in a WVA Tourist Info Station.

Now the farmers are flagrantly promoting canned fishing! Bass, Trout Crappie and Bluegill are all listed!

And whats worse is they are doing it with a grant from the USDA!

Our federal funds are being used to commercialize wildlife to profit a few at the expense of we sportsmen that believe in "Fair Catch"!

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a298/mikesctxdy/gofish.jpg


It's also all over the web: We are doomed!!!

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/aquaculture/lvefsh.htm#Fee%20Fishing:

[kycowboy]

thats nothing pay lakes have been around forever

[ducknbuckhunter]

yep about the paylakes

[Jimmie in Ky]

I see what you are up too Taxi Mike. If state fish and wildlife agencies all across the coutnry had taken a stronger stand things would be diferent now. There would be no snakeheads in the Potomac. There would be no silver or bighead carp in the rivers of the central US. CWD would not exist!! If not for the close quarter conditions of the cervid farm we would not have CWD. Your industry brought these problems upon yourselves. You wont regulate what you do for the sake of wildlife so someone else will do it for you!!

Wonder when the first child will be swallowed by a python because of another bastards greed ? Jimmie

[9th Fair Chase Hunter]

Jimmie Just remimber if Mike and the cervid farmers get the definition the way they want that python if owned by someone would be livestock!!
They say you can not tell them what to do with livestock.

[Skipper]

Mike,

You just aren't right in the head. I don't see what gave you the idea that all sportsmen are against all farmers. That is about as far from the case as it could possibly be, and you seem to be wanting to stir up more problems that do not exist to start with. Yes, The BASS Federation and many other sport fishing groups have worked heavily with issues involving aquaculture when it comes to exotic species, and there have been significant problems over the years with exotic species getting loose into our public waters. However, that has never been twisted to say that they are against farming native fish species such as catfish or trout or for that matter exotic species so long as adequate measures are taken to make sure they don't wind up in public waters.

Fish Farming is something that has went on a long time. Longer than any of us have lived here, and nearly as old as the United States itself. Each year, the KDFWR stocks billions of trout in lakes, rivers, and streams throughout the state. These trout are raised on farms and are not native to most of the places they are stocked. Where trout are native, the chances are the stocked species isn't.

When it comes to bass, in most cases, Largemouth aren't native in this region to the river systems. However, they are in all of our lakes, and are the dominant of the 3 species in many of them. I've never herd anyone complain when Largemouth replace the native Spotted Bass in a system. There are currently 8 different species of black bass in the US. Most people are familiar with 3 of them. Largemouth, smallmouth and Spotted Bass. The state of Georgia has more species of black bass than any state in the US by far. They have a Coosa or Redeye Bass, a Shoal Bass, Suwanee Bass (sometimes called a Sunshine Bass) in addition to the 3 common species. In Oklahoma there are Whitchata spotted bass and in Texas there are Guadaloupe bass.

The odd thing is there is a section of the Cumberland River near Pineville that has some Coosa Bass in it. They were stocked there in the early part of the 1900's.

The Georgia example, to me, is rather neat in that all of those species of black bass are stairstepped down in a river system with the Coosa Bass being in the swift waters up in the mountains of Northwest Ga, the Shoal Bass being mid way down, and the Sunshine Bass being in the swampy low lands of Florida.

The whole point of this is, Likely, all river systems in North America were at one time similar to that one in GA. Before man got here, each system likely had it's own strains and or species of black bass. The Whitchita Bass's fate illustrates this. In 1920, whitchita bass were common, today they aren't because other black bass species have been stocked in the same waters, and interbreeding of the 2 have nearly wiped pure whitchita strain bass out. Today, our past actions of stocking fish have pretty much made the bass throughout the US genetically similar, and we have managed to create some new species of hybrids such as meanmouths. Today's bass fishermen for the most part, have no idea the other 5 species of black bass exist and some genetic engineering does go on in public waters. It's not been too many years ago that the TWRA began a program of stocking Florida Strain Largemouth into the Tennessee River system in an effort to increase the size of the fish in those lakes. Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, and many other states have also stocked Florida Strain fish, and as for California where we get word of a possible new world record about every 6 months, those fish aren't native there, they are Florida Strain Largemouth. Black Bass aren't native period west of the continental divide, they were all stocked.

As far as other worries such as disease go. Largemouth Bass Virus first appeared in 1991. It is known that many species of warmwater fish carry LMBV, but it seems to only affect the Largemouth. Smallmouth and spots don't seem to be bothered by it. Have you wondered why most game agencies are spending a ton of money to stock cold water fish like trout but won't spend a dime to stock largemouth when the largemouth are far and away the most sought after? One reason is fear of transmitting LMBV from an infected hatchery to a clean lake.

IMO, fish are a whole other thing and difficult for anyone I know of to confuse the management of them with that of managing mammals. For one thing, 1 sow bass has the potential to produce several thousand offspring per year where a doe deer can produce 1 to 3 per year. I shouldn't say this, because you'd probably take it the wrong way, but the fact that we (man) have altered every river system on this continent with lakes, dams, locks, etc, some species of fish can not continue in their former waters without the infusion of hatchery stock. If you want to have trout in Laurel Lake you have to stock them. They can not reproduce in the lake. Thus, we are dependent on the trout hatcheries to supply the water with trout.

As far as the farming for food issue with fish goes, in many cases, it is the only way. Look at the Tennessee River System. From the Fort Loudon Pool all the way down, the river is considered too contaminated to allow the sale of catfish to the public for food. It is against the law to take fish out of Ft Loudon and Watts Bar and sell them because of the Mercury content they may or may not have. The long and short is, if you want safe catfish to eat, you have little choice except to heat the ones that taste like dog food out of the aquaculture operations.

Skipper

[Taxi Mike]

I see what you are up too Taxi Mike. If state fish and wildlife agencies all across the coutnry had taken a stronger stand things would be diferent now. There would be no snakeheads in the Potomac. There would be no silver or bighead carp in the rivers of the central US. CWD would not exist!! If not for the close quarter conditions of the cervid farm we would not have CWD. Your industry brought these problems upon yourselves. You wont regulate what you do for the sake of wildlife so someone else will do it for you!!

Wonder when the first child will be swallowed by a python because of another bastards greed ? Jimmie

Jimmy:

I'm interested in what you see? Please tell me your vision.

I'm fairly well aware of the many many problems associated with humans enhabiting the earth.

We could have kept Zebra mussles out if we had closed our shores to all shipping. We could have greatly slowed but not likely prevented their spread by banning all boat trailers.

We wouldn't have a problem with intrusive non native plants had we outlawed ornamental landscaping.

We problably wouldn't be talking about "Avian Flue" if we shut down air travel.

And we certainly would not have to fear for our childrens safety of being swallowed up if we outlawed the pet industry. At least not until wildlife managers reintroduce wolves and grizzlies! (to bring nature back into balance)

These are among the many "issues" that challenge wildlife management. Just how strong a stand would you have that arm of our governement take?

Would you stop there? Or would you give equal creadence to other institutions? Our kids can be swallowed up by "drugs, booze and a plethora of vices" Ban everthing? How about teaching responsibility? We already have in place laws placing responsibility of animals in the hands of their owners!

That is for everything but wildlife. When a bear swallows up your kid there is no penalty or compensation, when a deer eats your crops or wrecks your car you accept it as nature. So be careful about demanding too much greater accountability lest we hunters are put out of business by the costs of our animals.

"Greedy bastards" is what the anti's call us! Their guru's state: "humans are a blight on the earth".

I truely would like to know your solution to greed and the blights that we spread!!!

[Taxi Mike]

You just aren't right in the head. I don't see what gave you the idea that all sportsmen are against all farmers.

Dr. Skipper: I appreciate your analysis..... , but I do not appreciate and again I would plead with you to not "put words in my mouth "I have not said, nor do I believe "all sportsmen are against farmers".

Hell I'm not against them and I'm a sportsman!


I do appreciate your insightfull defense of "put and take - fishing" "fish ranching- aquaculture" and the validity of folks "eating wild species".

I'm not a big fan of "catfish" either, and I've never tasted dogfood, but I know lots of folks that like elk and venison whether it is raised on a farm or only feeding on farm land!

[LoneRanger]

I see what you are up too Taxi Mike. If state fish and wildlife agencies all across the coutnry had taken a stronger stand things would be diferent now. There would be no snakeheads in the Potomac. There would be no silver or bighead carp in the rivers of the central US. CWD would not exist!! If not for the close quarter conditions of the cervid farm we would not have CWD. Your industry brought these problems upon yourselves. You wont regulate what you do for the sake of wildlife so someone else will do it for you!!

Wonder when the first child will be swallowed by a python because of another bastards greed ? Jimmie


Actually, if you research CWD much, you'd know that it was first confirmed in Colorado, at the DNR Research Facility and the initial spread was traced back to that Facility. Later, much later, it has been trace to game farms, but the DNR in Colarado has a large part in the overall spread.

Another question--Why does KYFWR maintain a Game Farm in Frankfort if they are so bad and should be banned????????????????????????????????????

[Skipper]

I'm not a big fan of "catfish" either

I don't know much about what to make of your posts, but I do know that a feller that doesn't like catfish, hush puppies, and cat head biscuits just ain't right.

Skipper

[Taxi Mike]

Quote:
I'm not a big fan of "catfish" either

I don't know much about what to make of your posts, but I do know that a feller that doesn't like catfish, hush puppies, and cat head biscuits just ain't right.

Skipper
__________________
Skip's Outdoors Magazine (http://www.skipsoutdoors.com/)


Dr. Skipper:
While such remarks are not productive I have a hard time taking offense from someone who qualifies his culinary expertise by equating taste to dog food! (the phrase is not "bone appetite")

you have little choice except to heat the ones that taste like dog food out of the aquaculture operations.


As to what to make about my posts perhaps reading and reflecting instead of "reactively replying" would help!

[Skipper]

I was merely pointing out that most meats develop different tastes and textures depending on what the animal or fish ate. There is a difference in taste between a catfish that comes from Laurel Lake, one that comes from Lake Okeechobee and one that comes from a farm pond in Eutaw Alabama. Cattle raised on grass will taste differnt than cattle primarily raised on grain. The feed fed to catfish raised in ponds is somewhat similar to dog food, and in some cases is dog food. We used to bass fish from time to time on an oxbow lake in Alabama. The farm that the lake was on was a catfish operation, and they fed their dogs and catfish the same food so you could have called it either dog food or catfish food.

UT had a Food Science lab in the college of Agriculture, and while I was there, you could make a few bucks and get fed a littlebit tasting food. Things like Hardees changing their french fries and carrotts for Campbell's Soup were tried out there. You'd get 3 or 4 plates of french fries to test and $20 for doing it. We even tested some venison once for a fallow deer farm in Blount County. For a college kid living on Taco Bell getting paid to eat was worth the effort of going over to the lab and signing up.

Skipper

[Taxi Mike]

"U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance"
http://www.wlfa.org/interactive/features/Read.cfm?ID=1617 (http://www.wlfa.org/interactive/features/Read.cfm?ID=1617)
Animal rightists have launched a new anti-fishing campaign that disparages dads who teach their children about angling.
PETA supporters began passing out graphic flyers to youngsters on Sept. 24, a day heralded by sportsmen as National Hunting and Fishing Day but recognized by anti’s as Fish Amnesty Day. The explicit comic, “Your Daddy Kills Animals,” instructs children to “Ask your daddy why he’s hooked on killing.”
“PETA is seeking out our children and using shocking campaigns to spread its anti-animal use agenda,” said U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance President Bud Pidgeon. “The fact is fishing is a fun, wholesome activity that gives families the opportunity share time in the outdoors.”
The bottom feeders at PETA are also campaigning against bowfishing. They label the activity as cruel and try to draw comparisons between it and the tracking and impaling of dogs and cats.