Disgusted

[Skipper]

Disgusted

Being involved in this Canned Hunt issue is really getting aggravating for me.

I know 3 things for sure.

1. Under current Kentucky Law, the canned hunts as shown on the Bellar Video ARE LEGAL. So long as Deer and Elk behind fences remain labeled as Livestock, it will be legal. Depending on when the deer farmers are talking, these kinds of “Hunts, Slaughters, Harvests or whatever” may or may not be happening in Kentucky.
2. If sportsmen are at all interested in stopping this from happening in Kentucky, they are going to have to stand up together and be counted. Backing away from the fight is not going to get it done.
3. By the Cervid Farmer’s own admission, they can not make a living with deer selling antlers, hides, meat, deer pee, or any other deer product. They have to either sell “hunts” or sell deer to someone else who does sell “hunts” to be profitable.

The last 2 meetings of the 9th District Federation have turned into a Cervid Farmer Fillabuster, and we aren’t getting anything else done other that letting one another know that we do not agree on the issue. We now have about 20 new members in the 9th who intend to stop the 9th District from being a voice for the sportsmen in the 9th and that is a crying shame. The 9th District meets monthly at the Salem Tool Building between Corbin and London on Hwy 25W on the 2nd Tuesday of the month at 7:00 pm just in case there are any sportsmen who would wish to help us out.

I’m getting a little disgusted at some other folks, and I’m not personally attacking you, but trying to understand why certain people are seemingly turning us out to the wolves instead of trying to help us get the kinds of “hunts” depicted in the Bellar Video made illegal in the state of Kentucky. I understand Mark Rogers (LKS Director 8th District) has always been against our efforts, and that is his right to have his opinion, at least he was upfront about that to start with. The ones I don’t understand are the ones that are turning tail on us and running in the midst of the fight. Tom Conley for one aka Multidigititis. I thought that you were the one responsible for the video being shown at the LKS convention, I know you were responsible for getting it to me. If you are working to stop these kinds of hunts, you must understand that they can not be outlawed by the Commission due to the way the deer and elk are classified in Kentucky by law. What is the use in stirring people up to do something about it and then once you get the fire going, throw water on it? Finally, Ronnie Wells. What in the world is up with your comment “In my opinion, all the discussion on this topic, and energy spent with petitions, etc. would be better spent working to improve the league and bringing other groups closer to the league.”? What should the league do? Quit worrying about this and any other issue we feel like is detrimental to sportsmen in this state and concentrate on getting more members? No, this is not going to be popular with the 90 some odd people involved in the cervid business, but there are a couple hundred thousand sportsmen in this state who, given the understanding of the issue, are against it.

Kalen and Schuyler, I appreciate your support of what we are trying to do.

6 Months ago, I had no idea that we had this kind of thing going on in Kentucky. I truly had no idea that we had 90 Cervid farms in this state or that they had such a tight relationship with the politics that be. That fact is, Lou, with his petition the the LKS board wants to expand these operations, create more of them, and mover further along the road of more cervid operations. He also wants the League to support it. That is in direct opposition to what the delegates at the League Convention Policy Development Meeting voted to be the policy of the league.

Last night, the 9th District was presented with a proposal for us to basically support expanded Cervid Operations by our 20 new cervid farmer members.

I will say this, if the League manages to morph itself into a voice for cervid farmers and the sportsmen of this state find out exactly what they are supporting, the League won’t last long with the membership. The League is supposed to be a voice for the sportsmen, and I heard loud and clear when we voted on Dan Fister’s resolution to regulate high fenced hunting operations, that the sportsmen member of the league want and expect the League to work toward putting a stop to what went on in that video in the State of Kentucky. The League members also voted to continue the governor’s ban on the importation of cervids, something that KALA and the Cervid Farmers are seeking to get overturned. If the League leadership wants to go against what the membership voted to do, I think the leadership has some serious problems.

The League can be a premier voice for sportsmen in this state but it won’t be unless the leadership carries out the will of the membership. When the league starts working against the membership’s wishes and voted on policy, it is an unfortunate situation that could lead to the League becoming pretty irrelevant.

Skip Walden
9th District KWFF Director

[BUCKHEAVEN]

Hello Skipper,

I received a call today from an LKS member from the 9th. He told me you had a bunch sportsman at the meeting from your district opposing your petition. I heard you had a good discussion for three hours. That’s good maybe someday we will understand that we all want what is best for the hunter in Kentucky.

I can’t see why you are so upset about domesticated elk and deer farms as privately owned livestock. We have health control of our livestock, we have much better genetics than you can imagine and it’s a business that gives all Kentuckians a chance to make a buck. Not a bad thing around Kentucky.

You are simply going to extremes in demanding what a farmer can do with his or her private property. We are not talking about public property we are talking about raising domesticated animals on private property.

This baloney you keep stating that farmers drug the animals to hunt them. You must get a hold of your self. Why would a farmer want to drug an animal that comes to the trough running anyways? And why would you say that about your neighbors? Are any of your neighbors doing what you are claiming? Do you know anyone in Kentucky that is drugging animals and shooting them for a hunt?

It is not right Skipper to defame your neighbor when you know it is not true! The Kentucky cervid farmer is working hard like any other farmer and you must stop with the allegations that you know are not true.

Find one farmer in Kentucky that is drugging hunting and killing an animal like you are suggesting. Just one please anywhere in Kentucky. Even in the 9th district.

[schuyler olt]

If no one is drugging and killing animals, what's the problem with outlawing the practice?

Aside from the potential of CWD and other diseases, I really could care less about cervid ranching.

But when a "hunt" is conducted on the property, I strongly feel that the ranchers are responsible to see that it is conducted in such a manner that the rest of us don't get tarred by the same brush. That "silent majority", I fear, will not grasp a distinction between that hunt and one that may go on in the DBNF, the LBL or on somebody's low fence farm.

Frankly, ANYTHING we do that needlessly offends the general public works against all of us. That's why none of us like to see a dead deer strapped on the trunk of a car, just to cite one example.

Guys, there is common ground upon which we all can stand.

[Skipper]

One thing I don't guess they said that I asked that I never got an answer to is this, and it's a challenge to you and the rest who are in that industry to provide an answer to.

Since, under current Kentucky law which labels captive deer and elk as Livestock, the actions in the Bellar Video are legal in Kentucky, and since both the sportsmen and the deer farmers in attendance at the meeting both publicly state that we are against that sort of thing going on. How do you suggest we go about guaranteeing that that sort of activity is not legal in the state of Kentucky unless the definitions of the animals are changed? Is there some other way to do it that I am not seeing?

Sure, your group can say, "We don't do that on my farm." The problem is, it is legal, drugs and all. (No, you can't eat the meat once it's been drugged, but there's no law that says you can't shoot it and mount the head and throw the rest of it out) How do we go about guarnteeing through law that those practices both you and I denounce as reprehensible do not happen legally in Kentucky?

Skip

[LoweBow]

Skipper...
Would a "wanton waste" law keep someone from drugging an animal, or would is still be considered livestock?
I've always wondered why KY doesn't have a wanton waste law anyways.

[Skipper]

This is something we discussed after the meeting, but we thought that it might be a possiblity to declare Deer and Elk as "Game" as opposed to either Livestock or Wildlife. I'm not sure how many deer or elk are on cervid farms in the state of Kentucky, but we did have some concerns as to if those currently in these operations could ever be wildlife again. One purpose for using the Game classification is to separate deer and elk from other animals such as quail and cattle (2 opposite ends of the spectrum).

As far as the Wanton Waste law, that would only apply to Wildlife or Game not to Livestock. If you tried to push Wanton Waste on livestock you truly would open a can of worms. You'd have someone griping that throwing out a soup bone from a hog is wanton waste when any normal dog would have loved to have knawed on it. Personally, I'm not a big fan of Wanton Waste because it can be subjective under the right circumstances. I once had a friend in Montana who got into serious trouble over a wanton waste law for tossing out portions of a speed goat that he deemed unedible because it had been contaminated by the shot.

Skipper

[BUCKHEAVEN]

Skipper & Schuyler

Ok Ok guys I hear you.

So lets resolve the problem.

So you suggest that KALA in Kentucky adopt a policy that drugging privately owned farm raised deer or elk before a "hunt" is against our policy.
I think I can work on that.

What else? Stay on point.

[schuyler olt]

Lou,

Thanks!

[Skipper]

Ok,

What about the part where the guy in the treestand shoots a buck in the end of a fenced pen where panning the camera right, left and straight forward clearly shows the fence is within a few feet of the treestand, and the 2 herders are busy seeing to it that the buck runs up into the corner of the fence where said guy in the treestand shoots it and exclaims, "I've just killed the biggest buck ever."

Or what about the part where the deer is affixed to a tree so that it can't move and the "hunter" creeps up on it and shoots it.

Skipper

[Birdman]

Now your working.:)

[BUCKHEAVEN]

Ok,

What about the part where the guy in the treestand shoots a buck in the end of a fenced pen where panning the camera right, left and straight forward clearly shows the fence is within a few feet of the treestand, and the 2 herders are busy seeing to it that the buck runs up into the corner of the fence where said guy in the treestand shoots it and exclaims, "I've just killed the biggest buck ever."

Or what about the part where the deer is affixed to a tree so that it can't move and the "hunter" creeps up on it and shoots it.

Skipper


Skipp,

You cant legislate morality without affecting our rights as citizens. Our rights are far more important and sacred than the thugs like you describe taking advantage of situations.

[Skipper]

Skipp,

Our rights are far more important and sacred than the thugs like you describe taking advantage of situations.

Could we re-phrase that to say, "Our Rights as Cervid Farmers are far more important and sacred than any sort of moral based regulation you or any of the rest of the sportsmen in the State of Kentucky would like to impose on us."

Skipper

btw: I'm still waiting for your solution.

[daking]

I've kind of let this issue lie since being removed from the CWD task force, but things have come to a pass where I feel comment is appropriate.

As I told anyone who would listen, I believed then that the real issue was not deer farming but high fence hunting. Deer farming cannot be profitable unless the "farm produce" is "hunted" by folks that are willing to pay big bucks to shoot a big buck (pun intended). If deer were truly ranched as traditional livestock, a farmer would get a greater per-acre yield raising cattle. Venison does bring a high price, but it is more difficult to raise, has a smaller yield and does not enjoy the universal demand of beef. In that light, a businessman (and despite any romantic notion otherwise, farmers are businessmen) would choose the more profitable crop.

The argument over the ethics of high-fence hunting are a subject of debate. Safari Club, International recognizes trophies taken during canned hunts within certain guidelines. The Boone and Crockett Club as well as the Pope and Young Club do not. A close colleague is the professional ethicist for the B&C Club. He is a scholar of great renown and repute. While he makes a very sound argument about the ethics of the fair chase, I don't think the issue here is the imposition of anyone's personal ethics and sense of aesthetics as law. This is the very issue that is being fought in the crossbow v vertical bow issue. The consideration should be the impact of high fence farming on the resource and on the entire sport.

I have stated many times there are some hygene issues associated with the importation of non-native deer. Mr. Ortega has pointed out that the Commonwealth imported plenty of elk and that if they were allowed to do so, why shouldn't he? Well, two wrongs never make a right (although three lefts do). Perhaps the elk restoration program was ill-advised with respects to CWD. Perhaps the body of knowlege about CWD was so small when the elk were imported that the potential damage to the herd was not as clear. That's in the past. Would allow the administration of thalidomide to pregnant mothers, knowing it causes birth defects? Of course not. When thalidomide was first prescribed to pregnant women, its effects on their offspring were unknown. Now, we'd never do it. Mr. Ortega's argument regarding the elk restoration program is about as valid as arguing that we should be allowed to prescribe thalidomide to pregnant women today because at some part in the dark ages of research it was allowed.

Another danger that I see from high fence hunting is the public relations problem it engenders. I know that the deer ranching community rails against being characterized in the now-famous DVD from the Indiana case, the fact is that no one in their industry did anything to keep one of their own from allowing the things on the video to happen. The laissez-faire attitude that they would like see with regards to government regulation is apparently the same attitude they have among themselves. The result of their sense of "what I do with my land and my livestock is my business" is that video. As Paul Harvey so eloquently puts it, "self government requires self control." The high fence hunting industry has done little to make sure that its best foot is put forward.

I sympathize with the plight of the ninth district. Of course, deer ranchers should be free to join the League. Hell, they let lawyers and the likes of myself in, so the bar is kind of low. Still, one has to question the sincerity of these johnny-come-latelies. Where were they when we were wrestling the Lake Cumberland pipeline to the ground? Where were they when we were making sure that Craven Crowell (then head of TVA) didn't turn Land Between the Lakes into a rural Disneyworld? The League has worked for the last sixty seven years to protect our resources, sports and traditions. These guys are but a blink in our history. They are asking a lot from us without having worked side-by-side with us when we had other battles to fight. They've come to us with but one issue. Where will they be when this issue is resolved? Will they be with us for the long pull? I'd be more comfortable if they had some demonstrated history.

After being on the CWD task force, studying the issue, discussing it at exhaustive length with the foremost ethicist on the subject as well as with the leading conservation writer in the country, it is my considered opinion that the deer ranching industry is not deserving of any relaxation of the regulations that govern them. I think that this needs to be a core value of the League. President Wells is right about one thing. The League has a lot of things about which to worry besides this issue. The main thing that the League must consider is the protection of the things that the membership values most. The League has gone from some 14,000 members in 1999 to about 9000 as of the 2005 convention (these are the League's numbers, not my guess). My reason for belonging to the League and working for it (and make no mistake, I've worked long and hard for the League over the last fifteen years) is that it is the protector of resources, our sports and our traditions. If it should ever waffle from this mission, I can find something else on which to spend my time, treasure and talent.

[BUCKHEAVEN]

[quote=Skipper]Could we re-phrase that to say, "Our Rights as Cervid Farmers are far more important and sacred than any sort of moral based regulation you or any of the rest of the sportsmen in the State of Kentucky would like to impose on us."

Skipper

I dont really agree with that Skipper but if you feel that way maybe we are making progress in our discussions.

[9th Fair Chase Hunter]

I agree that it is a big issue that we may not be smart enough to fix, however sticking your head in the sand very seldom makes things better. I do not think that we can agree on everything and I am about to give up trying to, I just want to make it clear that hunters and sportsmen are not the ones shooting deer in pens.
I will agree that by websters definition these deer could be livestock or wildlife but I think my issue is that once you start trying to hunt them they are definately GAME.
If we could put distance between what the CERVID farmers do and my sport of hunting I would never need to talk about this again.
I know that I am new to the LKS and even though I am president of the 9th District Federation I have alot to learn about the LKS, but what I have seen so far does not impress me. I am not sure when I am ask by a sportsman why they should join the LKS if I have an answer. I could say You get a News letter ( but I have members of my club that never got one even though they paid their dues) or I could say its a voice for the sportsmen to get together and make a difference ( I have not seen that to be true) I know that the 9th is the step-child in the LKS and we don't swing a big stick but I am glad that we at least tried to make a difference.

[Taxi Mike]

Skipper:

Don't get discussed. It seems that things are finally coming to fruitation on a more realistic basis and specifically to the point. Instead of the original knee jerk generalizations that could potentially stop way more than poor judgment and "unscrupulous media moguls".

It seems that having some hunters and interested parties join the league and having open discussions has not been all bad. Sounds like you have a direct communication with those that could approach the Farm Bureau and have them self regulate these concerns.

Sky is definitely right on track about offending the general public which is what the original 9th petition would have done. (given that farmers and those with concerns or that don't agree with the potential disastrous outcome of such a broad condemnation of who only knows what).

Before we stone the deer ranchers why don't we clean our own house.

A petition to outlaw; "the tying of dead or alive deer on car fenders". It's generally publicly offensive. Though it's also been portrayed as the tip of that iceberg and I have had to fight city's attempts to ban; "any display of a dead animal in public view".

This was due to a guy hanging fully feathered dead ducks (ageing them!) under the eave of his house. Not my cup of tea and understandably distasteful to some, but the broad action by that city's council would have actually been enforceable against anyone having a mounted deer visible through a window.

(The guy was approached by a few sportsmen and agreed to be more discreet and the council dropped the issue.)

As to the Russ Bellars case. The deer had been gored by another and was drugged to be examined and it was determined that it needed to be put down. It was one of our media hero's that suggested and took the opportunities to "fake some footage" but was also dumb enough to film the whole scene.

I would suggest we get together and clean up our "hero's". It is getting to be that there is so much fame and fortune to be had in media hunting that we are spawning our own "Michael Jackson's and OJ Simpsons, (maybe even a Mike Tyson but I haven't heard of any 1 eared deer).

I'd like to see the sportsmen call for truth in hunting in all media. No canned photos, or at least acknowledgement of photos video etc. of deer elk etc that were taken behind fence. The general hunting and non hunting public have been duped into believing that: "there is a monster buck waiting for you!"

Advertisements, packaging etc. show images of outsized "trophies" most of which are farm raised and some if you look close are "mounts"!

If media and marketing and our hero's won't lead with example I doubt we will have much luck with legislators and the public.

[Birdman]

I know that I am new to the LKS and even though I am president of the 9th District Federation I have alot to learn about the LKS, but what I have seen so far does not impress me. I am not sure when I am ask by a sportsman why they should join the LKS if I have an answer. I could say You get a News letter ( but I have members of my club that never got one even though they paid their dues) or I could say its a voice for the sportsmen to get together and make a difference ( I have not seen that to be true) I know that the 9th is the step-child in the LKS and we don't swing a big stick but I am glad that we at least tried to make a difference.

Just the contrary, the ninth district has stood tall in several matters and definitely made a difference within the league. I truly hate that you feel this group of directors haven't made a difference and that being a possitive one for the sportsmen in this state. Which your past director Mr. Weddle played a large part of. Two years ago the ninth didn't have an active club. What Dale, yourself and many others in the ninth have done, is given a voice to sportsmen within the ninth. And that's a GREAT THING. What some people want is for the ninth and all other districts within the league to give up and go home. By doing that we would return to one person manipulating our entry system. Hang in there, your doing a good job, it takes all of us to get things right.
And we're very fortunate to have this site to work matters out. Just thing, what would have happened with out the communications we have today.

[Skipper]

One thing I know that neither Kevin, Taylor, Ernie, or I are very good at is playing politics. We are hands on people that take a task and figure a way to get it done. That is very much evidenced by the way that Taylor has worked with the RMEF to see to it that Kentucky now enjoys a 5400 strong herd of wild elk.

We are willing to compromise on this issue if the deer farmers are willing to figure out a way to make it illegal to do what was done on the Bellar video in Kentucky. Honestly, we could care less what the definition of deer or elk is, we just want these activities stopped in Kentucky. The deer farmers tell us that they do not support what went on in that video either. If that is true, we both agree on that. The problem is, they aren't willing to do one thing to stop it. That forces me to question their sincerity when they tell us that they are against the activities in that video.

Skip

[Birdman]

I understand your concerns and what your saying. I feel sure we can work this out.

[WBBP]

Skipper: Didn't know you were a thug.....

I haven't posted much on the cervid farmers/high fence hunting lately due to the youth season, salmon flyfishing trip in Michigan, and then the ML season.

Early on in this discussion, I tried to get some answers from some of the cervid farmers, but what I got mostly was "issue avoidance". I like straight talk-even if I don't agree with the person doing the straight talk. I don't give up easily (good and bad trait), so I will ask some of the same questions in a different context:

Background- I am trying to educate myself on the facts of cervid farming and high fence hunting in Kentucky. The purpose of this research is to aid in my understanding of the applicable issues so that I can make an informed decision and take a position on the issues at hand.

I have several personal core values as a sportsman that will help guide my decision making process:

1) I personally believe in fair chase.

2) I personally believe that CWD is a threat to our cervid population.

3) I personally belieive that it is my job as a sportsman to pass limited judgement on unethical behavior by other sportsman or by groups that can affect the traditions of hunting.

Here are my questions:

1) What is the "primary" revenue generating market that cervid farmers in Kentucky have?

Context: I am aware that the selling of meat, antlers and velvet are part of the process, but this only represents a small percentage of the revenue. I suspect that the primary revenue generator is the harvest of cervids by clients seeking large antlers. This can happen in two ways:

(a) the harvesting of big antlered cervids on the same farms that they are raised on in Kentucky by "clients"

b) the selling of big antlered cervids to operations outside of Kentucky that allow "clients" to harvest the cervids based on antler size.

If this is the primary purpose of raising cervids in Kentucky, please just say so, so we can move on.

2) What acerage size restrictions "currently" apply to commercial cervid harvesting operations in Kentucky?

3) What acerage size restrictions have the cervid farmers in Kentucky proposed that their industry be subjected to?

I have many more questions, but until I get good detailed answers on questions 1-3, I will just keep plugging away.

I am hoping for an honest discussion.

Thanks, Kalen

[spurs]

Compromise sounds great, if it will work. Seems all I do while sitting in a treestand is think. Always helps to be out in nature. Today I was thinking a lot! The deer farmers have indicated that they wish to work with and be an asset to the LKS. This wouldbe good for all concerned. It also seems the biggest issue is the way deer are harvested on these farms. The LKS passed a resolution that would require deer to be harvested in a particular way- undrugged, in pens with a minimum of 200 acres with no inside fences. The F&W commission stated they could not act on the resolution because they no-longer control cervid farming. Possible solutions- the deer farmers could request an admendment to the resolution that reads something similar to " This resolution in noway is intended to prohibit licensed deer farmers from harvesting their own deer" ie:the deer owners could harvest his or her own property however they wished. The deer farmers could agree to a hunt of his or her deer would be regulated by the KDF&W giving them authority over only the hunting aspect of deer farming, thusly allowing the commission to act on the resolution and enacting it into law. The KyAG would still control the farming aspect of deer farming; the KDF&W would regulate the controlled hunting aspect of deer farming.
To the members of the 9th Federation and the LKS- if some type of workable compromise is not reached then we must support the resolution that the league has already voted in favor of. This would mean that we wouldbe obligated to support what ever steps are taken to once again put cervid farming back under the authority of the F&W, something cervid farmers are strongly opposed to. To do otherwise, wouldbe voting against ourselves.
To the members of the 9th Fedration; we must at the next meeting take a stand one way or the other, decide what we are going to do and do it. Then put this matter to rest and go on with rebuilding our federation and conducting other business that concerns the sportsmen of our district.
To the deer farmers of KY- For any compromise to work will mean that deer farmers will have to somewhat police yourselves, insuring that all regulations are strickly adhered to. Hopefully this will prevent your business and Ky sportsmen from trying to defend ourselves against anymore blackeyes that this Beller video has already given us all. Also we all know if CWD is ever discovered in our free ranging deer herds, and it is traced back to a cervid farm, that both cervid farmers and the Dept of AG will suffer greatly from public opinion.

[Taxi Mike]

10-13-2005, 08:04 AM
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Did you know that Governor Ernie Fletcher had officially declared yesterday October 20th as "Conflict Resolution Day"!

According to the posts above it seems things really do go better with thought and rational discussions as to how to work together to prevent "potential problems" and resolve concerns for the mutual benefit of all parties.

And it also seems from some earlier posts that the valid concern of so many sportsmen against the farmers isn't uncommon or too easy to overcome.

In reflecting on the issue by revisiting some past issues it occurs to me that we as sportsmen and gun owners have acted equally as "arrogant and bull headed" back when we were first "attacked with unfair, untrue and broad-brushed slurs by those that wanted to put an end to us."

So the complaint of non-cooperation levied against the farmers is understandable. Like us when broadly attacked the farmers fell back on the natural human instincts of "bluff, duck and cover" until you can assess what is really going on and figure out who is friend, enemy, potential ally and etc.

I'm very optimistic that the Farmers understand the valid concerns of sportsmen and that those that are astute enough to stay in business understand the need to be socially accepted by the general hunting and non hunting public. (Since among other things that is their revenue source!)

The considerable problem with the prejudiced stance of some individuals within KDFWR to "regulate out of business all cervid ranchers" is something that we as sportsmen and as the representative body via the "league" can have a significant roll in overcoming or circumventing.

If hunting were regulated under "parks and recreation" and that department had taken a position that hunting was "not recreation and immoral" I'm certain we would demand to be regulated elsewhere.

Thinking in a deer stand is definitely worthwhile and an endeavor we should work to introduce to more folks!

[WBBP]

TaxiMike and Buckheaven: I asked some questions earlier in this thread. Are either of you interested in answering them?

Thanks, K

[BUCKHEAVEN]

TaxiMike and Buckheaven: I asked some questions earlier in this thread. Are either of you interested in answering them?

Thanks, K

Kalen,

I must have missed your post among Skippers smoke. Sorry about that. You ask good questions and I will try to answer them. Ask again if I miss the target.

As far as fair chase I agree with you as it relates to wildlife. Fair chase to me is to go after my quarry with a bow and arrow in a totally wild environment without fences. Anything else “fair chase” gets cloudy. I would not impose my standards of fair chase on others.

As far as CWD I agree with you. The incidents and the infection rates of CWD are so minute that it will not be the infection that will destroy our hunting industry it will be the solution and hysterics.

As far as judgment goes frankly I am not one to impose my standards on other sportsman.

Now that we are both clear on some issues let’s see if I can answer your questions.

I must first tell you that there is no market. With the game preserves not being able to restock their facilities with hoofed animals, with the Executive Order prohibiting new cervid facility permits we don’t have much of a market. Since most of the privately owned farm raised cervid facilities do not have the 3-year CWD certification required to export our cervid we do not have the export market either. That should change this year as most cervid farmers become certified.
The answer to your question it is no. What you mention is only two good ways the market may work. The US imports millions of pounds of venison every year and the US market and demand for farm raised cervids products is big. Just look in your Cabela’s catalog see the venison they sell or the antler chandeliers or the knives with antler handle or look in the Internet to purchase venison or a variety of products from cervid producers around the country. Not to mention the semen sales for cervids millions and millions of dollars are spent semen sales and storage facilities and thousands of dollars are spent paying technicians to inseminate cervids. The breeder buck marker is probably the most lucrative as a fawn sold at an auction last November for $48,500 son of a 300-class farm raised buck. And many other fawns and unborn cervids were sold for 10 thousand 20 thousand and 30 thousand. Velvet antler production is another large phase of the cervid industry. Only one without a vision can say that the harvesting of farm-raised cervids is the only reason to raise cervids. Go visit Antlers restaurant in Benton Kentucky, Jackie will fix the best elk burgers around.
None.
None.
I hope I hit the target and answered your questions.
Samon fishing sounds great.