Saw 3 great men today

[mossyhorns]

Saw President Bush today in Hopkinsville -- sitting front row and center were none other than Knight and Hale. I asked them if they got the Pres to agree to a hunting trip. THe Pres. said he was headed back to Tx and planned to do a little fishing.

It was one heck of a show!.

[quackrstackr]

Thought you were going to say you saw me on the road somewhere.....:D


Shows how busy and out of pocket I have been lately.. I didn't even know W was going to be around. I haven't seen any news or read the paper in over 3 weeks now.

[skin_dog1]

in my opionon you only saw two great men. knight & hale. not trying to start anything but busch isnt a great man. just a prick on a mission is how i see it.Your age and lack of maturity are definately shining now! I remember being your age and not knowing jack about the pres and still hating him. Mostly because of the biased media. Now that I'm older and wiser I realize how stupid some of the remarks I'd made were, and also realize what a great man that president was. I'm reffering to Pres. Reagan and the first Pres "Busch". Since President "Busch" is just a prick and on a mission I'd like for you to detail exactly what the mission is. When you're done with that please name the vice president, sec. of state, and sec. of defense. Also what party exactly is Pres. Bush? Try to answer those simple questions without reffering to the internet or other reference. Grow up! Oh, I'm sure Harold and David hold the same opinion as you. Thats why they were there on the front row! A couple of good conservative Christian men like those 2 could never support such a prick as Pres. "Busch"! BTW his name is Bush!!!!

[Lil Gsp]

Turkeyhunter5 I believe that you need to do a little more research on President Bush because he is keeping your freedom safe! Along with many other rights maybe like our 2nd Amendment and I think it would be a pleasure to meet the President.

I think that you need to think a little more before you post because I know. I got in trouble for one of my posts that I had on the Truck thread.:o

[mossyhorns]

THe man is much better in person -- comes off as down to earth folk. He was very articulate with a sharp wit and great sense of humor. And was going fishing when he got back to TX tomorrow. A man that fishes can't be all bad!

[Hammer]

in my opionon you only saw two great men. knight & hale. not trying to start anything but busch isnt a great man. just a prick on a mission is how i see it.

You should like him since neither of you can spell! Seriously, all United States presidents, past, present, and future should be respected by all Americans. I really couldn't stand Bill Clinton, but I surely respected him and the office.

[skin_dog1]

You should like him since neither of you can spell! Seriously, all United States presidents, past, present, and future should be respected by all Americans. I really couldn't stand Bill Clinton, but I surely respected him and the office. Now thats funny! don't care who ya are (dem or rep!)

[skin_dog1]

Turkeyhunter5 I believe that you need to do a little more research on President Bush because he is keeping your freedom safe! Along with many other rights maybe like our 2nd Amendment and I think it would be a pleasure to meet the President.

I think that you need to think a little more before you post because I know. I got in trouble for one of my posts that I had on the Truck thread.:oGood advice from a fellow teenager!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[PhilpotHunter]

in my opionon you only saw two great men. knight & hale. not trying to start anything but busch isnt a great man. just a prick on a mission is how i see it.

First off, man you really need to learn how to spell. Its hard to respect anything you type because you look ignorant. Not trying to piss you off, but its the truth.

Second, this forum is not the place to show ANY liberal views. Just by me telling you this I am probably going to catch some flak. Its better to just stay away from political coversations on this site if your a liberal.

Mossyhorns,

Congrats on seeing the president! Regardless of your political affiliation its exciting to see the president. And I got to meet Harold Knight a couple years ago and interview him for our hunting show, really nice guy!

[RUTNUT]

I Do Not Agree At All With Turkey But Remember What Bush And Our Troops Are Fighting For, Thats Freedom. The Freedom Of Speech, Freedom Of The Press, The Freedom To Express Our Opinions. I Think What He Posted Was In Very Poor Taste But It's A Freedom He Has To Do So.:(

[grouseguy]

Turkeyhunter 5:

Your disrespect for our president is apalling and shows what type a person you are. It is never ok to call any president a "prick". How about a little respect for the office, regardless of what you think of him. Please delete your post. :mad:

WBBP,

Sorry, but I believe you are out of line. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. Feel free to disagree, even challenge his knowledge of the subject as skin dog did, but to ask him to delete it is "out of bounds" IMHO.

Now for the disclaimer...yes, I am most certainly anti-W. I consider him to easily be the worst president overseeing the most corrupt administration of my lifetime, and I think anyone that was around here during the last election is well aware of my thoughts and reasons. Nothing new here.

If this past election and the crossbow cluster#$%& taught us anything, its that we as sportsmen have to find a way to be able to agree to disagree with opposing opinions. We are all individuals with individual beliefs, but we're also bound by a strong common interest...why are we so quick to alienate, censor and offend someone over our individual differences, rather than attempt to understand their perspective or better yet simply ignore minor differences in favor of our commonalities.

Somehow, this seems a little out of place...usually you are the one acting as the peacemaker:confused:

[schuyler olt]

Mossyhorns,

Congratulations! Mostly by dumb luck, I have had the great fortune to shake the hand of every President since and including JFK. Some I liked, others I didn't support, but in every case each was much more impressive in person than you could imagine them from TV. Believe it or not, of all of them LBJ had the strongest persona about him--it was like you could feel him from twenty feet away. Clinton was easily the most personable, followed by Jimmy Carter (he actually autographed my can of Billy Beer), and George W is a very close third. I met him first at the Derby when he was still the Governor of Texas and he was there with his Dad. Both of them made a point of saying something complimentary to every person they shook hands with, and what they said had absolutely no ring of being phony.

[schuyler olt]

While I agee that we are entitled to our opinions, the way we voice them is a reflection of the speaker, not the person about whom they are speaking. And all of us have an equal right to complain about the language used.

[trust me]

I'll throw out my $.02 and then back away.

The office of President of the United States of America commands our respect. We may loath the person in the office, but we must temper our comments toward him/her regardless. Clinton and Bush have both weathered tremendous attacks, none of which had any effect on their re-elections. But, the office has suffered during both men's terms, not only because of their actions, but because the world sees us being so disrespectful of our leaders, and they in turn lose respect for our entire nation.

Character assasination didn't hurt Bill, but it hurt our country. Same for W. I say lower the rhetoric for the sake of our country.

Also, if you are going to make accusations about either party and their candidates, please have something to back up your statements. Some of these conspiracy theories put forth just make the speaker appear to be one of those guys wearing aluminum foil hats.:D

[Art]

Guys!! Guys!! and Gals....

I think you all missed the point. He was talking about Kurt BUSCH! Yes, he is a little prick and I don't care for him either.:D

IMO everyone is entitled to their opinion. I stay away from politics on a forum because NO good can come of it. People feel too strongly about it to have a logical discussion. With that said, I don't care who the President is, they should have every citizens respect, PERIOD.. It's such a great country, that if anyone feels like they can do better, THEN THEY CAN APPLY FOR THE JOB!!;) Or, if you're that unhappy you can pack your bags and move to another country. Crying gets you nowhere, and thats becoming a big problem because this country is brim full of people who know what all the problems are, but instead of giving solutions, they just blame others.

[Turkeyhunter5]

i'd carless what you guys think aboutmy post. i am just expressing my fellings toward a president. i dont like bush and i didnt like clinton. i mean i'm not gonna arge with you guys/gals, i dont like are so called president and thats that. if anyone wants to say somthing about it are talk about it then just send me an email are somthing and we will have a discussion.:mad:

[Turkeyhunter5]

ok guys i dont like bush, if you got a problem with it then send me an email and we will have a chat about are so called president

[Art]

ok guys i dont like bush, if you got a problem with it then send me an email and we will have a chat about are so called president

Thats cool with me, I agree, you have a right to say whatever you want.. Let me ask you this though, who do YOU think would make a good President and why? Just curious.:)

[PhilpotHunter]

But before you answer that, PLEASE go buy a dictionary! And SLOW down when you type, reading your posts are like reading latin!

[WBBP]

Grouse Guy:

I agree that he has the freedom to say "nearly" anything he wants and calling any President a prick is his right. What I disagree with is him chiming in on Mossy's post where Mossy was talking about the President. It is always a big deal when any President comes to KY and Mossy was relating his thoughts about it.

If Turkeyhunter 5 thinks "Busch" is a prick, he should start his own thread and label it "Busch is a prick", not intervene in Mossy's post with his disrespectful comments. Just my 2 cents.

I am certainly aware of your political thoughts GG, but your thoughts are always well written and fall within the bounds of good discussion. We are opposites politically, but have nearly everthing else in common. I can respect that. As far as me being the peacemaker, I have failed miserably so far, but hope is not lost.

K

[Auk1124]

Believe it or not, of all of them LBJ had the strongest persona about him--it was like you could feel him from twenty feet away.

Of all the presidents of the modern era I personally think LBJ is the most fascinating. Whether you agreed with his politics or not you gotta admit there will probably never be another like him.

My favorite LBJ story, don't know whether it is true or not but it sure sounds like it could be:

LBJ is in Europe making the diplomatic rounds at some point during his presidency. A scheduled stop is Vatican City to see the pope. Italian television is recording, the pope and cardinals are decked out in all their finest regalia, crowds of people have gathered. LBJ roars in on a helicopter, hops out, ambles over to the pope, and hands the pope a bust of himself, LBJ. He then waves at the crowd, ambles back over to the chopper and roars off, leaving a stunned pope standing there holding a bust of LBJ.

[WBBP]

Good story on LBJ. What a character he was.

He was probably more sucessful than any President in the last 50 years at getting his agenda pushed through (Didn't say I agreed with it). He was the ultimate politican and deal maker. On second thought, President Clinton was/is the master politician.

[grouseguy]

WBBP,

Well said. I wouldn't worry about defending mossy too much, he's a big boy and been around for quite some time and I'm sure he was well aware that he would inflame some passions by referring to W as a "great" man.

As a hunter, I'm used to being in the political minority, and I've always been able to maintain friendships in spite of politcal differences, with the exception of Multi, but that boat was already full when I got on board.;)

Don't beat yourself up over "failing" to keep the peace on the xbow issue, you gave it a valiant and level headed effort...that was a lose/lose situation for the sportsmen from the start and only escalated because the sportsmen chose sides and actually thought that it was about xbows, rather than viewing it as a smokescreen used for cover while TB vacated the premises, and I have to give them credit...it worked masterfully.:(

Have a good weekend.

[GSP]

I've been away for a few days getting back to the basics, now this is an interesting thread.
Mossy, congrats for seeing/meeting the President of the United States. I would like the pleasure of meeting any US President.
I remember one thing my dad taught me. My dad was probably the most hard core Democrate this state had and he had little use for Nixon. One night at the supper table, I spouted off something about Nixon and quickly I got "the look" and he said, "son, YOU don't bad mouth the President of the United States".
That has stuck with me a many of years.
The office should always maintain respect, the person in office should work to maintain that respect and every citizen should strive to maintain that respect for the office.
I have witnessed (and voted for) a couple of real duds as President of the United States. During those years, you back off, regroup and try to change as per your beliefs. During that time one needs to really educate themself as to what "their" beliefs really are!
I have friends on this site that I enjoy discussing politices with face to face. Some we seldom agree, but we have never argued. That's the way it is to work, you don't like it, change it!

Yes, everyone has a Right to say Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagon, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy............Washington was a Prick, I promise you do it at many houses, you may pick yourself up off the floor.

[cobbhunts]

I've been away for a few days getting back to the basics, now this is an interesting thread.
Mossy, congrats for seeing/meeting the President of the United States. I would like the pleasure of meeting any US President.
I remember one thing my dad taught me. My dad was probably the most hard core Democrate this state had and he had little use for Nixon. One night at the supper table, I spouted off something about Nixon and quickly I got "the look" and he said, "son, YOU don't bad mouth the President of the United States"...........

Great post, I was brought up the same way. I also have some of the same discussions, with friends, with out the argument. I have one friend, WBBP has met him, who is not exactly anti-hunting but as close as it gets with out being extreme about it. He also voted for Ralph Nader! He has a college degree with about a 3.6 GPA and swears only to work for a non-profit organization ( nothing wrong with that just setting up a short bio ). This being said we are opposite on a lot of views and he is still one of my closest friends. He is an NRA member, collects firearms, and an avid shooter. We discuss politics and policies most daily, and though we lean in different directions politically and otherwise, we still can carry on a conversation without getting in a shouting match though we may disagree. A lot of people on this forum can not do this for some reason or another. This is why I have never posted on a political thread to my knowledge. I do not want to be a basher to either party, though I am strongly a Republican. As a Republican I do not always agree with what the President chooses to do and sometimes laugh during his speeches! I did however serve overseas during Operation Enduring Freedom under President Bush and do not regret for one second getting the opertunity to defend freedom, defend the United States, and defend the Flag that represents the United States of America. The bottom line is that Turkey hunter 5 is young and he can get on here and say things (not spell them obviously!) that he really hasn't experienced or researched enough to have an opininion about. I am not bashing you TH5, just suggesting that you think about what you say or write and maybe ask a soldier before you speak for a soldier ( refering to a previous thread posted by TH5 ) because I truly believe that 9 out of 10 of us (soldiers) would say we need to be where we are and it is for the right reasons.

BTW congrats on getting to go see the President I sure would have liked to go!

[mossyhorns]

No intent to inflame. Was trying to draw a smile by equating Knight and Hale with the President.

It's truly amazing that some of my best friends have opposite political views than I. THese are guys I hunt with all season. Famous Grouse and I can even carry on a civil conversation and I think he is a great guy -- even if he is a banker, LOL.

There are two things that cause trouble on this site. One is the dearth of adequate reading comprehension. The second is the idea that political views or even personal views on wildlife management are somehow akin to religious veiws and must be defended with similar tenacity.

It was a great experience and didn't have anything to do with viewpoints. It was the first time I've gotten to see a President in person. Regardless of any other labels, I am first and foremost a patriot -- and I can tell you without shame that when the lights went up and announcer read that simple phrase: "Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States," there were tears in my eyes and goosebumps all over.

[Gobblergetter2.1]

"Why" I ask could anyone think that john kerry would have been a better choice??? He is a member of peta for christs sake. In this election, Bush was clearly the better choice for hunters, and christians. I know everyone is intitled to their own opinion, and that is mine. There were definatley 3 great men in that row you saw. And all were men who probably loved the outdoors!

[PhilpotHunter]

"He is a member of peta for christs sake.

I'd have to see it to believe it.:confused:

[Art]

I'd have to see it to believe it.:confused:

Kerry is a member of ANYTHING that he thinks will get him more votes. Don't you guys remember all of the dumb quotes in all the pre-election ads? I always got a big laugh about how he said he liked to "hang" his doves for a while after he shot them..:confused: I know we saw him goose hunting (in blaze orange) and what not before the election trying to get the vote of sportsmen, but I bet he was hasn't been hunting OR fishing since. Underneath it all, he IS anti-gun. From a outdoorsmans point of view and all other stuff aside, Bush was a better choice for preserving our sport. If you hate him for everything else thats fine, but I firmly believe that he was the best choice for sportsmen.

I agree with others, the President should be respected by EVERYONE even if you don't like all of his policies.

[Turkeyhunter5]

kerry is just like bush, well i think so, they both where doing anything possible to get votes. didnt bush try to say he hunted and was a member of some hunting group are somthing. both of them probally havent even ate a wild animal that they killed.

[Art]

kerry is just like bush, well i think so, they both where doing anything possible to get votes. didnt bush try to say he hunted and was a member of some hunting group are somthing. both of them probally havent even ate a wild animal that they killed.

Well, I think your right in that first sentence, but Bush is an outdoorsman. He loves to quail hunt and fish on his ranch in TX. I'd say neither one of them is Daniel Boone, but I doubt you have much time for that stuff when you get to the level of politics that those 2 men are..

[PhilpotHunter]

Well, I think your right in that first sentence, but Bush is an outdoorsman. He loves to quail hunt and fish on his ranch in TX. I'd say neither one of them is Daniel Boone, but I doubt you have much time for that stuff when you get to the level of politics that those 2 men are..

Well, just to play devils advocate here, how do you know he likes to fish and quail hunt? The only reason you believe this is because at some point his people did a photo shoot and the media covered it. He could be lying just like Kerry could have been lying.
Politics goes both ways. At the end of the day either one of those men would have wore trecky outfits if it got them more votes. Thats politics.

[quackrstackr]

I saw him fishing with Roland Martin or Bill Dance or one of those guys on their show way before the re-election. He has some really nice lakes on his place in TX that are managed fisheries.

[WBBP]

I never thought that Mossy's post that he saw "3 great men" would turn into questioning whether he was more of an outdoorsman than Kerry :D.

Philpot, you earlier warned a poster that had some liberal leanings to not post here because of the bad feelings. I think it is getting better. We all really have a lot in common, regardless of our political viewpoints.........

K

[grouseguy]

Well, just to play devils advocate here, how do you know he likes to fish and quail hunt? The only reason you believe this is because at some point his people did a photo shoot and the media covered it. He could be lying just like Kerry could have been lying.
Politics goes both ways. At the end of the day either one of those men would have wore trecky outfits if it got them more votes. Thats politics.

Exactly PhilpotHunter...its time for a little "independent thought" by sportsmen before they give blanket support to any candidate or organization. Neither man is/was a "sportsmen" as WE would define the term for ourselves. Also, its much more important to look at what an individual candidate has actually done rather than what they (or someone on their behalf) says they will or won't do, and this is especially true if they're talking about the other candidate.

[PhilpotHunter]

It is getting better. I think more and more people are realizing that if your a liberal it doesn't mean your anti-gun or anti-hunting. But the true test will be in 08 when it starts up full force again. Then we'll see how has what to say.:)

[oldforestor]

I dont recall ANY media story on Bush's hunting or fishing expertise. I do know that everytime he goes to Crawford, he's "clearing brush" according to the nitely news.

I'd believe he shoots birds before I'd believe he's clearing brush...

[Highbow]

I hope we can find someone better than H. Clinton, I just don't think I could pull that lever down at all. It is entertaining at times to read these post, I'll tell you the truth about how I feel, YOU DO YOUR THING AND I'LL DO MINE.

[PhilpotHunter]

I hope we can find someone better than H. Clinton, I just don't think I could pull that lever down at all. It is entertaining at times to read these post, I'll tell you the truth about how I feel, YOU DO YOUR THING AND I'LL DO MINE.

I'm sure we'll pull someone better the H. Clinton out of our hat.

[quackrstackr]

Disagreements over politics, religion and wildlife management are good for all... so long as they are not turned into personal or venomous attacks and the colorful language is kept to a minimum.


So long as things are kept civil feel free to disagree, otherwise it will be gone like yesterday's newspaper. Things in the last several months were starting to get completely out of control and it was completely uncalled for.

I know you guys are better than that.

[BOBCAT]

Quacker, I Saw The Same Show, He Was Fishing With Roland Martin. I Also Recall That During The Show He Caught A Real Small Bass, 5 Or 6 Inches I Guess, And Instead Of Throwing It Back He Gave It To His Dog ( Barney ? ) To Play With And Chew On. I Thought Then That That Might Not Be Exactly Legal But Since He Is The President We Can Let That Slide:D

[jarhedhntr]

I am not sure how to start this response but I will try, first of all as some of you know I am a former Marine that served in Enduring Freedom/Iraqi Freedom so you know where I am coming from. I proudly fought for freedom, the flag and all other patriotic views but I did not fight for GW. I believe he is a war mongerering (don't kill me if that is spelled wrong:) ) rich man that will do and say what he needs to continue to keep the power and line the pockets of his oil buddies. I'm not sure how Marines and soldiers can blindly say that he stands for freedom, when he dodged his duty when his country called. Kerry at least had the balls to go, do what he swoar an oath to do and then come back and voice his opinion. And as for those of you who base your vote on religious and moral views I have this to say, ARE YOU NUTS. If you are looking for moral and christian role models I hate to say it but Washington DC is not where you should be looking. These men and women's full time job is to get elected and stay that way. I wish we could all stop pulling so far left and right and start getting back to the middle where most of America actully votes. I can't vote Democrat unless I am a liberal weiney and you can't vote Republican because your a right wing nutjob. :) By the way, I love you guys. Even you right wing nut jobs.

[PhilpotHunter]

And as for those of you who base your vote on religious and moral views I have this to say, ARE YOU NUTS. If you are looking for moral and christian role models I hate to say it but Washington DC is not where you should be looking.

Finally a chance to really disagree with my brother. What is so wrong voting on moral and christian values? To say you should leave your christian beliefs at the house when you go to vote is crazy, since I for one carry mine every where I go. If a person trys to base his life around his religious views, which I for one do, how can he put all that aside when he votes? If I'm against something, just becuase it is a moral issue am I now a "Christian nut job"?

The fact that the republicans use the abortion issue is smart. They know people also vote there beliefs. I didn't vote for Bush because I don't think he really is going to do anything about the abortion issue. BUT, if there was a repulican that I TRULY believed was going to put an end to abortion he would have my vote hands down, no questions asked. I feel this is an issue that means that much. As most everyone knows I'm a pretty staunch democrat, but that doesn't mean I can't not vote my beliefs either.

If the democrats keep being so anti-religion, and the republicans actually start changing some of the key moral issues in our country, you'll see this staunch democrat voting republicans in left and right. As much as I dislike Bush (hate is a strong word :D ) I'm glad he is around during this stem cell issue.

[Clint Daniels]

Hey Philpot. Isn't that the reason that the Dems. are using the Historic Filibuster on the Bush nominee. They are afraid that they will over turn Roe vs wade. Whole reason being that they are too outspoken on their Pro-life stance. Seems to me that is excatly what Bush is trying to do (Make abortion illegal). I recently heard Howard Dean refer to abortion as a womens right to health care, What about that babys right to life. I have respect for you on that issue philpot.

[Art]

I'll BET the Democrats will put Hilliary up for the next election. Love them or hate them, the Democratic party is going through some rough times right now and I can't think of anyone else who will get the press and hype like she will.

I don't like her at all, but I did like her hunsband even when the bottom fell out at the end. Bill was the biggest Democratic success in the past 15 years and if she wins, it puts him back in the White House as well. I think that senerio sounds real good at this point to some of you anti-W guys.:D

I am Republican, but I think the next election I will vote Democrat just because ...:D

[jarhedhntr]

We actually aren't that far off from each other little bro. I don't mean you shouldn't vote on you belief's, I am saying that people should be looking to Washington for leadership in those area's. To many people to day are looking to be told what is right and wrong and not making an informed and personal desicion about it. I have my beliefs and morals and I know what they are, I do my best to find someone that represents that, with that being said many moral issues affect few directly and if the issue were to arise there would be no problem deciding what to do, with or without a politicians view. But things like taxes, homeland security, immigration, healthcare, education, prescription drugs, enviromental issues, welfare reform, social security reform and dependence on foreign oil. These are all things that affect us daily and will continue to worsen without some attention soon. All I am saying is that I don't need a politician to tell me that abortion is wrong, or that stem cell research is a ethical tap dance. Those are personal decisions that I don't need made for me. As a Christian I am opposed to abortion as should any Christian, but is it the governments role to tell everyone else that. Someone that makes abortion a option and choice in there life will have to answer to that when the time is right, I will not have to answer for there decision. Right or wrong it is there free will that I will not make a stance on. It is their mistake to make. We can only do our best to inform them of obvious penalty for taking a life. Remember murder is illegal but it happens everyday, those that want to make this desicion will still make it, with or without our approval. Wow that was long, I will be brief in the future and field and discussions by pm if you like. I want to keep this civil, I also agree to disagree.

[BearsBud]

1) I'm not sure how Marines and soldiers can blindly say that he stands for freedom, when he dodged his duty when his country called. Kerry at least had the balls to go, do what he swoar an oath to do and then come back and voice his opinion.

2) I wish we could all stop pulling so far left and right and start getting back to the middle where most of America actully votes. I can't vote Democrat unless I am a liberal weiney and you can't vote Republican because your a right wing nutjob.

Question #1- Does the statement "dodged his duty when his country called" mean that you feel that anyone who chooses to serve in the National Guard or Reserves are dodging their duty?

Question #2- Do you honestly believe that Kerry did his duty? You do realize that he spent precious little time in Nam. He was there just long enough to get a paper scratch or two so he could run home to mommy crying about how bad it was. There is still debate about whether at least one injury was self inflicted and whether the other injuries were even worthy of a purple heart. I honestly cannot give him "ball" credit for his performance.

I do however agree that this country needs to moderate a little bit. The far right and the far left are bad for this country. The problem is that the politicians want to appear as far from their counterparts as they can. We rarely have a moderate option to pick from so we must vote for whoever comes closest to our beliefs or the lesser of the two evils. It's a shame but that is how it is.

[Multidigits]

Personally, I think it's childish and extremely rude to call any President(past or present) a prick. Most of the Republicans absolutely hated the Clinton presidency and I don't remember anyone calling Hillary a prick. Then again, maybe I missed it. :)

[shogan]

Being the President is probably the most difficult JOb in the world for any person alive. While I don't have to agree with President Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Carter, Kennedy or Washington I do have to respect their position as President. We don't have to idolize them. Just realize that they wake up every morning and go to sleep every night with the weight of the country and the world on their shoulders.

I believe few of us could handle the pressure.

Golly I just don't feel the casual dialogue warrants extra measures to spell check. But obviously some folks find it difficult to read when spelling is poor.

[PhilpotHunter]

I'm amazed at all the spelling natzi's in this world. To think that a mans words are less meaningfull because he is not a proficient speller.

I find his words no less meaningful, but when they are so bad I can't read them they don't mean jack to me because I can't understand them. Hows that for amazing?:)

[PhilpotHunter]

As a Christian I am opposed to abortion as should any Christian, but is it the governments role to tell everyone else that. Someone that makes abortion a option and choice in there life will have to answer to that when the time is right, I will not have to answer for there decision. Right or wrong it is there free will that I will not make a stance on. It is their mistake to make. We can only do our best to inform them of obvious penalty for taking a life. Remember murder is illegal but it happens everyday, those that want to make this desicion will still make it, with or without our approval.

James 2:10

"For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one paticular, has become guilty in respect to all of it. "

[jarhedhntr]

Question #1- Does the statement "dodged his duty when his country called" mean that you feel that anyone who chooses to serve in the National Guard or Reserves are dodging their duty?

Question #2- Do you honestly believe that Kerry did his duty? You do realize that he spent precious little time in Nam. He was there just long enough to get a paper scratch or two so he could run home to mommy crying about how bad it was. There is still debate about whether at least one injury was self inflicted and whether the other injuries were even worthy of a purple heart. I honestly cannot give him "ball" credit for his performance.

I do however agree that this country needs to moderate a little bit. The far right and the far left are bad for this country. The problem is that the politicians want to appear as far from their counterparts as they can. We rarely have a moderate option to pick from so we must vote for whoever comes closest to our beliefs or the lesser of the two evils. It's a shame but that is how it is.
I respect anyone that chooses to serve regardless of branch, but when someone joins and then avoids deployments because of a pre existing conflict of intrest, that I can't respect. As they told us in the Marines "U.S.M.C, You Signed the M*%#er F#$king Contract". If it was a problem that GW's father was in a leadership position in the intellegence community then GW shouldn't have been serving. Now I am not saying Kerry was the poster boy for the armed forces, but we all know that all the services still to this day hand out medals like candy, give me a little while and I will get the numbers on Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom, but I know for a fact it didn't take much. But at least Kerry went, even briefly, he still had a role and that can't be taken lightly. I was in Iraq from the opening night until after "hostile war" was ended and never had to fire my weapon, but my support was still needed. A buddy of mine was only in country for 2 days, but brought important supplies to us at our location. His short stay was very important. But I do agree, we need to start meeting in the middle and do what is best for us all.

[shogan]

Sorry Philpot I'm just a bad speller and have been heavily ridiculed on this site and another by folks wanting to attack me and their best efforts were to bash my spelling. You were not attacking me personally and I really wasn't attacking you personally as there were several people to mention the poor spelling by the rash poster.

I will edit my wording so that my wounded pride does not seem so striking at folks who place a high importance on spelling. Because bottom line some things are important to some folks and not to others and I should respect that.

[jarhedhntr]

James 2:10

"For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one paticular, has become guilty in respect to all of it. "

So do we start putting police and politicians in prison for allowing murder to happen. Will God hold GW personally reponsible for all of the murders that happened while he is the keeper of the whole law. I don't think so. "Thou shall not Kill" is another big one. YOU shall not, not you and your leaders. It is a rule for individuals to live by, and one that 99% of us choose to. For that 1% they will have their day of judgement, and for that day I will pray for mercy for them but I will not feel responsible for their actions, sorrow but not responsibility.

[PhilpotHunter]

So do we start putting police and politicians in prison for allowing murder to happen. Will God hold GW personally reponsible for all of the murders that happened while he is the keeper of the whole law. I don't think so. "Thou shall not Kill" is another big one. YOU shall not, not you and your leaders. It is a rule for individuals to live by, and one that 99% of us choose to. For that 1% they will have their day of judgement, and for that day I will pray for mercy for them but I will not feel responsible for their actions, sorrow but not responsibility.

When you put someone in charge that will knowingly kill, you are just as responsible as he is. If you sell drugs to someone and he over doses, you are just as responsible as he is.

Here is an example you can relate to. If you left your shotgun unlocked, and loaded in your basement, and your oldest shot himself, isn't it your fault. By your actions or lack of actions something horrible happened. Just because you didn't pull the trigger doesn't make you any less responsible.

[PhilpotHunter]

Sorry Philpot I'm just a bad speller and have been heavily ridiculed on this site and another by folks wanting to attack me and their best efforts were to bash my spelling. You were not attacking me personally and really wasn't attacking you personally as there were several people to mention the poor spelling by the rash poster.

I will edit my wording so that my wounded pride does not seem so striking at folks who place a high importance on spelling. Because bottom line some things are important to some folks and not to others and I should respect that.

No blood no foul, I'm not the greatest speller either.:D

[PhilpotHunter]

Observe here that sin is not simply action, but inaction.

James 4:17
"So for one who knows the right thing to do and does it not, it is a sin."

[grouseguy]

Philpothunter,

We agree on most things political, except this one. I just can't support your interpretation or beliefs on this subject. I just have a problem with your interpretation infringing on my right to "mind my own business". I agree with jarhedhntr that, in general, my inactions in no way make be responsible for other's actions. On this subject, you seem to want to confuse religion with the "law of the land", which doesn't allow you to take into consideration that not everyone shares your particular beliefs. We are all free to believe/worship (or not to) as we see fit.

Issues such as this are precisely why the concept of "separation of church and state" exists.

[PhilpotHunter]

Philpothunter,

We agree on most things political, except this one. I just can't support your interpretation or beliefs on this subject. I just have a problem with your interpretation infringing on my right to "mind my own business". I agree with jarhedhntr that, in general, my inactions in no way make be responsible for other's actions. On this subject, you seem to want to confuse religion with the "law of the land", which doesn't allow you to take into consideration that not everyone shares your particular beliefs. We are all free to believe/worship (or not to) as we see fit.

Issues such as this are precisely why the concept of "separation of church and state" exists.

Your inaction is your issue to take up with whoever whenever. But when you put someone in office who knowingly is going to allow a sin to be committed over and over again, do you consider this inaction?

[Art]

Your inaction is your issue to take up with whoever whenever. But when you put someone in office who knowingly is going to allow a sin to be committed over and over again, do you consider this inaction?

I'm not sure I understand.:confused: Are you saying that everyone who voted for or supports W will have to answer to all the things the US military has done?

[PhilpotHunter]

I'm not sure I understand.:confused: Are you saying that everyone who voted for or supports W will have to answer to all the things the US military has done?

No, I'm saying that if Bush came out and said that here is a list of all the things I'm going to do if I'm elected, and on that list was Kill all Jewish 3rd born daughters, and you knew this but still put him in, aren't you just as guilty as he is?

[Art]

No, I'm saying that if Bush came out and said that here is a list of all the things I'm going to do if I'm elected, and on that list was Kill all Jewish 3rd born daughters, and you knew this but still put him in, aren't you just as guilty as he is?

Maybe in that wack situation because that would be a crime against the human race. There is no way that you could draw the slightest connection between your example and what W is doing right now. The flip side of that coin would be are you also responsible if you are helping to PREVENT sensless crimes against humans. If i'm understanding all of this correctly.:confused:

[PhilpotHunter]

Maybe in that wack situation because that would be a crime against the human race. There is no way that you could draw the slightest connection between your example and what W is doing right now. The flip side of that coin would be are you also responsible if you are helping to PREVENT sensless crimes against humans. If i'm understanding all of this correctly.:confused:

:D I wasn't trying to draw a connection to what W is doing know, actually we just got WAY off subject.:D

[Art]

:D I wasn't trying to draw a connection to what W is doing know, actually we just got WAY off subject.:D

I figured I might be lost. I'll be the first to admit that once the talk turns to religion, sin, ect, i'm am no expert at all. I try to avoid all of that stuff.

[grouseguy]

Your inaction is your issue to take up with whoever whenever. But when you put someone in office who knowingly is going to allow a sin to be committed over and over again, do you consider this inaction?

I'm not looking for an argument, just discussing differing beliefs.

In your quote, I assume we're still discussing voting for a politician who supports a woman's right to choose for herself, which you seem to refer to as "sin". If that assumption is correct, then since I don't view abortion as a "sin" (I view it as a medical proceedure...nothing more...nothing less), then I don't view my support of that candidate as being anyway "sinful".

Basically, for your premise to be accurate, you would have to have a candidate that openly promised to commit a crime if elected (i.e. your example of genocide), but honestly, that premise is so extreme as to be impracticle. Short of that your mixing beliefs with laws, which has been interpreted to be inconsistent with our constitution.

Keep in mind that I am in no way suggesting that your beliefs are wrong for yourself, just that they shouldn't be imposed on others.

[PhilpotHunter]

I'm not looking for an argument, just discussing differing beliefs.

In your quote, I assume we're still discussing voting for a politician who supports a woman's right to choose for herself, which you seem to refer to as "sin". If that assumption is correct, then since I don't view abortion as a "sin" (I view it as a medical proceedure...nothing more...nothing less), then I don't view my support of that candidate as being anyway "sinful".

Basically, for your premise to be accurate, you would have to have a candidate that openly promised to commit a crime if elected (i.e. your example of genocide), but honestly, that premise is so extreme as to be impracticle. Short of that your mixing beliefs with laws, which has been interpreted to be inconsistent with our constitution.

Keep in mind that I am in no way suggesting that your beliefs are wrong for yourself, just that they shouldn't be imposed on others.

You can be pretty tactful when you want to can't you!:D

It comes down to us not agreing on what is a sin then. And at this point we could argue till were blue in the face or just agree to disagree.:)

[grouseguy]

Agreed....:D

[jarhedhntr]

Grouse, that was my point, it is hard to implement a law on a subject that depends on your interpretation of life. I do agree that it is a medical procedure, with that being said 99.9 % of the time it is one that should be inaccessible as a option. Duing the 60's and 70's it was like a form of birth control and that is an unacceptable way of dealing with irresponsibility. I am just not comfortable making a subject either agree or disagree, there is always a middle, slim as it may be. I'm not sure I have a great solution but I still agree to disagree and discuss it in a civil way.

[quackrstackr]

Only on this site, could a post by a good ol' country boy about Harold, David and W be turned into a theological discussion about what is a sin......:D


You just never know what kind of Pandora's box you'll open around here do you Mossy? :D

At least you guys are keeping it civil....

Big THUMBS UP on that. ;)

[PhilpotHunter]

Hey, I can be civil when I want to!:D

[PhilpotHunter]

Explain to me your thinking it is a medical procedure?

[grouseguy]

Let me try to explain my position, but be warned, you may get more than you bargained for because its not a concept that's easy to convey...

In order to view abortion as anything other than a medical proceedure, you must assign some value or "rights" to the unborn as a living entity, so as usual this comes down to where you draw the line as to where life begins. Regardless of which side of the debate you're on, there has to be a "defining moment", whether its conception, implantation, viability, birth, etc. IMHO, that defining moment is birth or separation from the mother...any point prior to that you are assigning a superpriority of rights to the unborn over those of the mother, which is contrary to ... "we hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal...".

Many of our founding documents guarantee "equal" treatment under the law. If you assign "rights" to the unborn in order to justify claims of "sin" or "murder", you have in effect made those rights superior to the rights of the mother. Therefore, how do you assign a superpriority of rights to the unborn without impairing the rights of the mother, which IMHO means that "rights" can not attach to a child until birth or "separation" from the mother, and you have a separate entity.

Now I'm not an attorney and may have used some of these terms out of context, but hopefully the point is understood.

Therefore, based on my beliefs, "life" doesn't begin until birth or "separation" from the mother, and anything prior to that occurance is nothing more than a medical proceedure.

Admittedly, I'm not a very religious person, so the above thoughts are my own. You may disagree on moral or religious grounds, but legally, I think the logic/law supports my interpretation, when viewed independently.

[PhilpotHunter]

We really have different opinions on this one.


Basically your saying that the baby (not really even a baby) is no more than a "growth" on the mother until birth, at which point it becomes life? Ok, agree to disagree.

But legally, and I don't know the specifics, but somewhere in the USA can't a person be charged with 2 murders if that person kills a pregnant mother? That contradicts the legal part of your argument.

I think just the fact we are having this conversation you can figure out my opinion, but if not I will be glad to post it. Its pretty much your basic "abortion is murder, and not only should embryonic stem cell research be outlawed but so should excessive invitro fertilezations of unwanted embryo's" stance.

[grouseguy]

Yeah, I'd say we're basically 180 degrees opposite of each other on this issue. That's alright, its still good to be able to discuss our differences on a controversial subject. Also, I think you did a fair job of defining my position.

Regarding the fetal homicide vs. abortion issue...obviously there is a contradiction in the law...intentional abortion is legal, but the unintentional death of a fetus can be defined as murder. Which interpretation can withstand a court challenge? Time will tell, but I'm sure that one or both will face a constitutional challenge soon enough.

Good discussion, even if we've agreed to disagree.

[PhilpotHunter]

Yup, these conversations always keep you on your toes.

Your right about them going to court, but after the new judges get up there who knows where it will land?

[Country]

As a Christian I am opposed to abortion as should any Christian, but is it the governments role to tell everyone else that.


Why not? they make moral decisions about stealing, murdering, rape, etc. What if someone didnt view these as sins? Does that mean the government has no right to tell you to not do these things? The point is there is a right and there is a wrong. And all laws are a moral judgement set down by the united states of america.
The fact that anyone can see the killing of an innocent baby as a medical procedure is just proof how far our country has become absorbed with sin. Why has this happened? Because Christians (which you have, aknowledged should view this as wrong) have stood by and let it happened. If we dont speak up for the unborn children who will? How can it be a medical procedure one minute and as soon as they come out it is murder?

[Country]

As most everyone knows I'm a pretty staunch democrat, but that doesn't mean I can't not vote my beliefs either.

If the democrats keep being so anti-religion, and the republicans actually start changing some of the key moral issues in our country, you'll see this staunch democrat voting republicans in left and right. As much as I dislike Bush (hate is a strong word :D ) I'm glad he is around during this stem cell issue.


If the democrats would nominate a good moral man, they would win hands down every election! I am not democrat nor republican but you can bet that i will elect those politicians who take a stand against abortion and homosexuality! Am I a nut for voting my morals instead of what will help my wallet? Some will say so, but i say the love of money is the root of all evil.

[Art]

I'm gonna side with Grouseguy on this one for the most part. I guess I fall on the pro-abortion side of the fence, but not totally. I have nothing against abortions if done for a valid reason. I don't think it should be used as a form of birth control for irresponsible, promiscuous sexual conduct. I also believe that it should be done as early as possible.

Unlike others, my feelings are not motivated by religion. I just feel that it boils down to what is right and wrong and having to live with the consequences of our decisions. I wish more of the human race could find it within themselves to decide what is right or wrong by their own free will, and not from religious or political pressures. Too many can't.

As far as stem cell research is concerned, I'm all for it, as I feel I should be since my personal life has been forever changed by the disease and death of those around me. If we have a way in which disease and disability could be cured or prevented by going down this road, then I see no reason why we should not. IMO, if God did not want us to do so, he would not have given us the tools and knowledge to do so- impossible if you will.

Thats it for my rambling on this subject, and some of you will not agree, but I read your ramblings and I didn't agree with them either, so now we're even.:D :D

[Country]

"Unlike others, my feelings are not motivated by religion. "

True christians are not motivated by religion. Religion wont get anyone to heaven. Its all about my relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and him paying for my sins. I will agree with you that it is about a wrong and a right. How people can come to the conclusion that abortion is right blows my mind, and what blows my mind even more is christians who believe its wrong and still dont take a stand on it.

[Clint Daniels]

I am curious to know if you pro-choice men have children? Also I beleive that a mans right to father that child are completely ignored. I wonder how many abortions are performed due to life saving circumstances? Stem cell research for one is privatly being researched right know in the US. The arguement is whether we will use federal monies to fund it. How can you take taxes dollors to fund research that so many people oppose. How long do we need to live anyway! Yes I have lost people very close to me and I am terrified that one of my children may get sick, but I personly do not feel it is ok to take a life to save a life. I pray that I will never be faced with that choice. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say seperation of church and state.



Talk about a broken paragraph. I got alot going threw my head right know.

[jarhedhntr]

Wow, have we strayed from the start of this post. I for one have heard many things that have made me think and I do really appreciate the civility of this thread. I will stop on this thread after my final statement's. I am a Christian man and I am opposed to abortion %99.9 of the time. I pray that none of us are ever faced with the decision of taking a life to save a life. I do pray that the people that we have elected and allow to make the key decisions for us are talking the way we are and are setting aside their difference's to find some common ground. God Bless. See you in the other threads.:)

[Country]

we have came a long way in this thread from talking about three good old boys lol. I had to go back to the first page to see where this thing started. I am surprised with the civilty of this thread also because this is such a devided subject, and in my opinion one thats needs to be dealt with

[JP]

phew.....well, I have now caught up to this lengthy and meaningless thread...I find it informative and interesting---I guess......now I am going to say the smartest thing that I can say when friends, neighbors, or co-workers talk about politics and/or religion........

NO COMMENT....:)

[Wildcat]

Well I've stayed out of this to see where it would go. Going back near the frst few posts about respecting the Office of the President I would like to post something I wrote last year during the election.

The most hated man in America

I’m talking about the President of the United States. This man has been shown more disrespect than most others. A large part of the people of the United States have called this man all kinds of names, both in public and private. They’ve called him a dumb*** , immoral, corrupt, a warmonger and other names I will not post. They question his Christianity and his morals.

The media has been after him since before he first came to office. They drummed up stories that later turned out to be false, yet they kept pushing and pushing the stories without any other view point. They take real stories and put so much spin on them and blown them out so far that they have no reflection to the original story.

The newspapers posted stories about how this one man started the war on his own for himself and his business buddies to get rich on. The stories show how this man encouraged the enemy to attack first and ever that he knew before hand of the attack yet did nothing.

Congressmen and Senators in the halls of Congress, on the Congressional Record, in meeting houses across America and ever aboard publicly denounced him. Members of his own party turned away from him. Some Congressmen and Senators ever called for his impeachment.

Thousands upon thousands of people protested against him in several large cities here in America and other countries. Several of the protests turned into riots and several people were killed. People turned on each other being for or against him. Some people in America hated him so much they publicly said they would kill him if given the chance.

In his first term he was elected without a majority of the popular vote and people called his being in office a scram. It was the United States Armed Forces, voting in their home states, that allowed him to get enough votes in those states to win in the Electoral College for his second term.

His Attorney General working under new laws passed by Congress started keeping taps on some American citizens further angering people that more called for his impeachment.

This is truly the most hated man in America.

His name is.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.Abraham Lincoln.

[mossyhorns]

The President did say he was going to do some fishing when he got back to Crawford last week, if it matters.

This has been a bizarre experience. Glad I didn't see the Pope!:eek:

[GSP]

The President did say he was going to do some fishing when he got back to Crawford last week, if it matters.

This has been a bizarre experience. Glad I didn't see the Pope!:eek:

I just read this thread, must say it sure took the LONG way around the barn.
Touched some very sensitive issues and everyone seems to have spoke their mind in a calm, reasonable manner!:eek:

Kinda scarey that grown men can have a civil debate.

Once again Mossy, congrates on meeting ANY U.S. President.

[PhilpotHunter]

I wish more of the human race could find it within themselves to decide what is right or wrong by their own free will, and not from religious or political pressures. Too many can't.

I determine what is right or wrong thru my own means, and my own free will. That just happens to be my moral values and my religious upbringing. So many people say "take religion out of it" hell I used to say it. But think about this. Jesus say's to be like him at all times, he doesn't say be like him except when voting, or be like him unless you have to make a decision on something. To tell me to take religion out of it is like telling me to just stop talking and go home, because I can't take religion out of it, religion is my foundation in everything I do.

if God did not want us to do so, he would not have given us the tools and knowledge to do so- impossible if you will.

That is what is called free will. God gave us the free will to make those decisions and decide our own fate.

[Art]

I determine what is right or wrong thru my own means, and my own free will. That just happens to be my moral values and my religious upbringing. So many people say "take religion out of it" hell I used to say it. But think about this. Jesus say's to be like him at all times, he doesn't say be like him except when voting, or be like him unless you have to make a decision on something. To tell me to take religion out of it is like telling me to just stop talking and go home, because I can't take religion out of it, religion is my foundation in everything I do.





That is what is called free will. God gave us the free will to make those decisions and decide our own fate.



OK, I know where you are coming from as a religious man. But as a non-religious person, why can't I look at it as, God has the ability to give and take life for his own reasons, so if man must strive to be like God, why can't he do the same to a certain extent, excluding murder? We know that nobody is perfect, and everyone sins, but are there some sins that are so bad that they can never be forgiven? Are certain sins worse than others?

Not trying to be a jerk, I'm just curious to know if there is some common ground between a very religious person and a not very religious person.:confused:

[PhilpotHunter]

I don't know if I have all the anwser to that. I know that there are certain sins that are considered worse than others, and you can bet that sins involving children are included.

As far as trying to be like God I think you might be taking things out of context. Are you saying that by being like God we should try to be creators thru science?

I'm sure there is a middle ground, but I'm not sure I'm the one to help you find that middle ground. I'm still a young man, and it took me a lot of soul searching, and a lot of praying to come to some of the conclusions I have made. I'm not sure I'm ready yet to start chipping away or questioning them just yet, as I am still in the phase of accepting them and exploring them. Does that make sense?:confused:

[Art]

I don't know if I have all the anwser to that. I know that there are certain sins that are considered worse than others, and you can bet that sins involving children are included.

As far as trying to be like God I think you might be taking things out of context. Are you saying that by being like God we should try to be creators thru science?

I'm sure there is a middle ground, but I'm not sure I'm the one to help you find that middle ground. I'm still a young man, and it took me a lot of soul searching, and a lot of praying to come to some of the conclusions I have made. I'm not sure I'm ready yet to start chipping away or questioning them just yet, as I am still in the phase of accepting them and exploring them. Does that make sense?:confused:

Makes sense to me. I consider myself to be in that stage as well. I came to the realization a few years ago that I'm much better off doing things by my own will than I am by trying to listen to others and do what they tell me to do. Of course, I don't like being preached to and I don't preach to others. Thats not saying I'm an evil person, but life is just too short to spend it all trying to decide if we are doing the right or wrong things in life. I know one thing for certain though, I will never have an abortion and I doubt you will either.:D If we need one, then something has gone wrong in a BAD way.:D

[Country]

? We know that nobody is perfect, and everyone sins, but are there some sins that are so bad that they can never be forgiven? Are certain sins worse than others?



Just thought id share my views and more importantly what the bible says about it. As you have acknowleged no one is perfect and we all do sin?

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

So if everyone does it does that mean God wont judge us for it? I dont believe so i believe all those who sin (everyone) cannot go to heaven without believing on Jesus christ as their lord and savior.
For the wage of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13
I believe there is a heaven and a hell, and the ONLY way into heaven is through jesus christ. Not by living a good life not by being sincere with whatever religion you want to.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6


As for are their verying degrees of sin? I dont believe so, i believe God hates sin and views it all as unacceptable, even the "lil white lies" A little white lie is just as much of a sin as murder. Both are sins against God that he cannot tolerate.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all. James 2:10

God views all sin as unacceptable! However the good news is that since its all the same to God then a person cant be too bad to be forgiven. I was saved when i was 8 years old so i didnt have a chance to commit "bad sins" (bad determined by the world) but an unsaved "innocent" 8 year old will go to hell the same as an unsaved person who dies on death row! If you have any questions or want to discuss anything feel free to PM me anytime.

[Art]

I think this is getting into some dangerous territory now. I'm checking out before this gets a chance to turn into something else..:)

[Country]

I think this is getting into some dangerous territory now. I'm checking out before this gets a chance to turn into something else..:)

Nothing dangerous here just giving you the answers i believe to be true, to your questions. Im not trying to force you to look at life one way, just thought id share my views since the oppurtunity arose.

[Art]

Nothing dangerous here just giving you the answers i believe to be true, to your questions. Im not trying to force you to look at life one way, just thought id share my views since the oppurtunity arose.

I honestly appreciate that, but this thread has gotten a little too involved with religion IMO. I have my own views, and I understand and accept your views as well as others, so there really is nothing more for me to say without risk of turning this thread into a theological debate. While I understand there are many subjects on this forum that can cause decent, a religious debate is a surefire way to get things out of control real quick. Just my opinion. Even with the best intentions, I am willing to bet it would end up like that.

[PhilpotHunter]

Actually, we have covered the most controversial subject and stayed civel, pretty impressive!

[mossyhorns]

Bizarre. Simply bizarre.

[Art]

Actually, we have covered the most controversial subject and stayed civel, pretty impressive!

I don't think abortion is more controversial than religion. I think religion is the single most controversial subject of all time IMO.:)

[Country]

youre probably right. I agree it could get heated pretty quick, as can anything people feel strongly about. Its nice to know that we all are able to discuss topics as open minded as we have though. Maybe the crossbow vs bowhunters should learn from this thread lol.

[grouseguy]

youre probably right. I agree it could get heated pretty quick, as can anything people feel strongly about. Its nice to know that we all are able to discuss topics as open minded as we have though. Maybe the crossbow vs bowhunters should learn from this thread lol.

Country,

You know...you and I differ on just about everything that we've discussed in this thread so far, but I think I can agree with every single word of this post. Well Said!!!:)

[Art]

youre probably right. I agree it could get heated pretty quick, as can anything people feel strongly about. Its nice to know that we all are able to discuss topics as open minded as we have though. Maybe the crossbow vs bowhunters should learn from this thread lol.

You said it! I have heard there is a big stink about the crossbow issue, but I personally don't care about that issue so I haven't seen it. I'm sure I'm really missing out.:D

[PhilpotHunter]

You said it! I have heard there is a big stink about the crossbow issue, but I personally don't care about that issue so I haven't seen it. I'm sure I'm really missing out.:D

Yeah really, I hate that I chose not to get in that battle...:)
I mean, look how mature they are proving themselves to be:D

[Country]

wow, i think we all finally agreed on something lol