UBK Basis for appeal?

[Multidigits]

1. The UBK doesn't feel the process met legislative intent.

2. The UBK feels they were denied input into the regulation process because the action taken by the commission was not adequately noted or posted prior to the meeting.

3. The commission's official agenda for March 4th listed crossbow 'survey'. 'Survey' does not indicate that it was expected to be an action item voted upon, to allow crossbows into the entire archery season. This was misleading..

4. Many sportsmen feel that they did not have proper representation from their commissioners.

They urge those with them to call the LRC contacts:

Legislative Review Committee

Representative Tanya Pullin
http://lrc.ky.gov/Mailform/H098.htm (http://lrc.ky.gov/Mailform/H098.htm)

Senator Dick Roeding
http://lrc.ky.gov/Mailform/s011.htm (http://lrc.ky.gov/Mailform/s011.htm)

Director of Constituents Services for Governor Fletcher
Ms. Angela Cox
AngelaS.Cox@ky.gov (angelas.cox@ky.gov)

Secretary of Commerce
James Host
http://commerce.ky.gov/officesecretary/contact.htm (http://commerce.ky.gov/officesecretary/contact.htm)


You can click on the links and send a message to them also. We can prove that the UBK and others knew well ahead of time what came out of the Feb. Committee meetings and that they weren't mislead by the posting of the agenda item. And more so, they have an experienced lobbist that should have been at the Committee meeting and reported back what was to be voted on at the Commission meeting on March the 4th.

We can also prove that the meeting was legal, and that the agenda was posted as per state law ahead of time. The other points are failures of the members themselves to get involved, not a problem with the process.

We still need to remind the commissioners that we support their position and their authority. We want to commend them for making a tough decision and for doing the right thing for the good of the whole. Stay positive and ask your Commissioner to stay the course. Stress the importance of not bringing outside lawmakers into the game management business. Follow the process that has served us in the past on many other important decisions.

[gwhilikerz]

Oh Great! The UBK is going to try to get the legislature involved with game management. If they are successful and get the xbow decision repealed by legislative action, better get ready for a lot of changes in all the hunting seasons. All sorts of groups with problems concerning certain hunting methods or even hunting at all will be pushing politicians to change things. Then, boys and girls in UBK, we will all be able to point to you guys as the cause of anything that happens. Nice move.

[shogan]

so should I send emails to the above folks stating Im in favor of the xbows. Or should I send it somewhere else.

[Multidigits]

Shogan, you should first call your Commissioner, It'll only go to the LRC if it's not reversed at the commission level. But you can if you want, and it probably won't hurt anything to have them there just incase. Don't forget to tell them about your new bow.

[creekdawgg]

SAY NO TO CROSSBOWS


http://huntingaddiction.com/crossbow.bmp

[shogan]

fat girls are Gods children too. And if the gal your taking to prom is heavy well then be glad you have a gal to take to the prom.

It's not improtant as to how your gal looks but does she love you and does she make you a better person.

If a crossbow makes me a better bow hunter then I'm for it.

Don't fear it or down grade it just because it's not for you because for some folks it's either what they want or what they have to work with.

[CPA Hunter]

Hey now, I love my big girl! She'd kick my butt if she read this -- she ain't big, but if she were ...... ;) (I'm not getting into the xbow debate).

[Willie]

I think someone said it best when they said....

"It would be like dating a fat girl...
Lots of fun when youre alone, but you wouldnt want your
friends to see you with one."


Then that person is a pretty shallow person isn't he?

To thine own self be true.

[joekat46]

I think someone said it best when they said....

"It would be like dating a fat girl...
Lots of fun when youre alone, but you wouldnt want your
friends to see you with one."
http://huntingaddiction.com/crossbow.bmp

Another example of the class shown by the UBK (Team Selfish).

[buckfever]

Another example of the class shown by the UBK (Team Selfish).

C'mon gents. Give it a break. How do you know creekdawg is even a member of UBK, and it's pretty obvious that he was making a joke.

[Willie]

C'mon gents. Give it a break. How do you know creekdawg is even a member of UBK, and it's pretty obvious that he was making a joke.

You said "gents" as in plural.

I never said a word about him being a UBK memebr. Maybe he is and maybe he isn't and I don't see that as having any bearing on what he posted.

"Joke"??

What I see is another very feeble attempt to put down another hunter's choice in their hunting tool.

It is VERY sad that one hunter would do that to another hunter..

Do you not agree?

[Multidigits]

C'mon gents. Give it a break. How do you know creekdawg is even a member of UBK, and it's pretty obvious that he was making a joke.

willie's correct, it doesn't matter if he's a UBK member or not, they get the "benefit" of his critizism of fat girls and of crossbow users. We belive there's a butt for every seat, even jerks like creekdog that can't mind his own business. Sorry Dave, but your only here to incite the troops. This is just another example of Dave doing just that.

[buckfever]

You said "gents" as in plural.

I never said a word about him being a UBK memebr. Maybe he is and maybe he isn't and I don't see that as having any bearing on what he posted.

"Joke"??

What I see is another very feeble attempt to put down another hunter's choice in their hunting tool.

It is VERY sad that one hunter would do that to another hunter..

Do you not agree?

No, I don't agree. It was a joke. Man, you guys are WAY too emotionally invested in this crossbow deal. Easy fellas.

[Willie]

No, I don't agree. It was a joke. Man, you guys are WAY too emotionally invested in this crossbow deal. Easy fellas.

Hey buckfever,

I've heard some ill informed people call recurve bows "Wound-O-Matics". Would you like for someone to use that terminology against your CHOSEN hunting tool?

Pretty funny, eh? NOT...

[Willie]

Back to our regularly scheduled programming..

I'm quite sure that the UBK is going over the commissioner’s heads to the Legislative Review Committee to apply legislative pressure from above. A VERY dangerous precedent.

I do believe that everyone should send an email to the Legislative Review Committee members to show them that it is a vocal minority of bowhunters that want this overturned.

Be sure and cite the survey of KY sportsmen and women in 2002 that was in favor of crossbows in archery season.

Also mention that this was a HOTLY DEBATED topic on here and the KY forum on Bowsite for way over a month before the commission meeting. Also that many UBK members AND UBK LEADERS participated in the "discussions". So they knew it was going to be voted on and that is NO excuse.

[Multidigits]

Last I heard Sec. Host said he was going to stay out of it. anything that happens will come from his office, not above. I'll know more next week and will be up there for a conference with some of the principles. I don't think there's been any progress on the back door move, but who knows. We'll see soon enough.

[buckfever]

Hey buckfever,

I've heard some ill informed people call recurve bows "Wound-O-Matics". Would you like for someone to use that terminology against your CHOSEN hunting tool?

Pretty funny, eh? NOT...

Oh, please. I couldn't care less what people think about my CHOSEN hunting tool. It's not a big deal. Don't stress over it.

[buckfever]

Last I heard Sec. Host said he was going to stay out of it. anything that happens will come from his office, not above. I'll know more next week and will be up there for a conference with some of the principles. I don't think there's been any progress on the back door move, but who knows. We'll see soon enough.

Are both sides of the debate invited to this "conference", and who are these so-called "principles"? Not a secret meeting, is it?

[Multidigits]

You give me the transscripts of all the phone and personal contacts you've had since this started and I'll be more than happy to provide the info you want. Otherwise, you'll have to learn it the usual way.

[creekdawgg]

Oh my goodness, how about you girls take some mydol and give your keyboards a break. I was kidding around and you guys act like I commed a crime. Does no one have a sense of humor these days. You guys are making this a UBK issue and I dont think it is. So multi what you are saying is I am a jerk because I dont favor crossbows?


BTW Im not a member of UBK

[shogan]

Man you are all about degrading women first is was fat women.

Not it's PMS women.

Next it will be coldsweats and life change women.

Oh please do the joke about bare foot and pregnant women from Kentucky.
Or why not the phrase don't get your panties in a wad.
Or look at him crying like a lil girl.

Sorry but I'm crakin myself up craking on your sexist humor.

Watch out Jane Fonda (oh she already moved out of the way and is apologizing for all of her prior poor behavior) funny it took a good man to set her straight.

[Walt K]

1. The UBK doesn't feel the process met legislative intent.

2. The UBK feels they were denied input into the regulation process because the action taken by the commission was not adequately noted or posted prior to the meeting.

3. The commission's official agenda for March 4th listed crossbow 'survey'. 'Survey' does not indicate that it was expected to be an action item voted upon, to allow crossbows into the entire archery season. This was misleading..

4. Many sportsmen feel that they did not have proper representation from their commissioners.

They urge those with them to call the LRC contacts:

Legislative Review Committee

Representative Tanya Pullin
http://lrc.ky.gov/Mailform/H098.htm (http://lrc.ky.gov/Mailform/H098.htm)

Senator Dick Roeding
http://lrc.ky.gov/Mailform/s011.htm (http://lrc.ky.gov/Mailform/s011.htm)

Director of Constituents Services for Governor Fletcher
Ms. Angela Cox
AngelaS.Cox@ky.gov (angelas.cox@ky.gov)

Secretary of Commerce
James Host
http://commerce.ky.gov/officesecretary/contact.htm (http://commerce.ky.gov/officesecretary/contact.htm)


You can click on the links and send a message to them also. We can prove that the UBK and others knew well ahead of time what came out of the Feb. Committee meetings and that they weren't mislead by the posting of the agenda item. And more so, they have an experienced lobbist that should have been at the Committee meeting and reported back what was to be voted on at the Commission meeting on March the 4th.

We can also prove that the meeting was legal, and that the agenda was posted as per state law ahead of time. The other points are failures of the members themselves to get involved, not a problem with the process.

We still need to remind the commissioners that we support their position and their authority. We want to commend them for making a tough decision and for doing the right thing for the good of the whole. Stay positive and ask your Commissioner to stay the course. Stress the importance of not bringing outside lawmakers into the game management business. Follow the process that has served us in the past on many other important decisions.


If you're going to quote a website, do it without adding your spin to it. You've not quoted the site accurately, as you've added 'UBK' to the bullet points. The public message specifically says 'sportsmen', not UBK members. The bullet points are for those sportsmen who were NOT informed. We DID inform our UBK members at least two weeks prior to March 4 at our banquet. No matter what side of the fence you're on, sportsmen need to get involved and understand how the process works. Sportsmen organizations can help accomplish this. And it seems a few keep repeating the same old thing, that UBK is 'going around' the department. We've not re-invented the wheel. It's part of the appeal process. It's always been there, nothing new..and nothing back door. Jeez.

[Multidigits]

Oh my goodness, how about you girls take some mydol and give your keyboards a break. I was kidding around and you guys act like I commed a crime. Does no one have a sense of humor these days. You guys are making this a UBK issue and I dont think it is. So multi what you are saying is I am a jerk because I dont favor crossbows?


BTW Im not a member of UBK

Nope, I'm saying your being a jerk for coming into this forum and trying to incite those in favor of the crossbow. You want others to grow up, practice what you preach for a change.

[Multidigits]

If you're going to quote a website, do it without adding your spin to it. You've not quoted the site accurately, as you've added 'UBK' to the bullet points. The public message specifically says 'sportsmen', not UBK members. The bullet points are for those sportsmen who were NOT informed. We DID inform our UBK members at least two weeks prior to March 4 at our banquet. No matter what side of the fence you're on, sportsmen need to get involved and understand how the process works. Sportsmen organizations can help accomplish this. And it seems a few keep repeating the same old thing, that UBK is 'going around' the department. We've not re-invented the wheel. It's part of the appeal process. It's always been there, nothing new..and nothing back door. Jeez.

Quit whining Walt. What I posted is accurate, as always and depicts what has and is happening. As you say, you've acknowledged that even what you have on the UBK website is a lie. You knew about the impending change, yet want the "sportsmen" to think otherwise. Poor tactics, but who's surprised?

[joekat46]

Oh my goodness, how about you girls take some mydol and give your keyboards a break. I was kidding around and you guys act like I commed a crime. Does no one have a sense of humor these days. You guys are making this a UBK issue and I dont think it is. So multi what you are saying is I am a jerk because I dont favor crossbows?


BTW Im not a member of UBK

Yes but with post like this you could say, "I'm not a member but I play one on TV". You didn't think we on the pro side would miss a chance to slam "Team Selfish" (UBK) did you?

[gwhilikerz]

If you're going to quote a website, do it without adding your spin to it. You've not quoted the site accurately, as you've added 'UBK' to the bullet points. The public message specifically says 'sportsmen', not UBK members. The bullet points are for those sportsmen who were NOT informed. We DID inform our UBK members at least two weeks prior to March 4 at our banquet. No matter what side of the fence you're on, sportsmen need to get involved and understand how the process works. Sportsmen organizations can help accomplish this. And it seems a few keep repeating the same old thing, that UBK is 'going around' the department. We've not re-invented the wheel. It's part of the appeal process. It's always been there, nothing new..and nothing back door. Jeez.
Walt K I went to the ubk website for myself to see what it says. Actually multi is right. The website uses the word "WE" where multi posted UBK. Now it doesn't take a genius to know that when you are on the UBK website, then the "WE" is the UBK and not "spotrtsmen". The UBK speaks for themselves and not other sportsmen. It is kind of dirty to try to hide the truth don't you think?

[Walt K]

We the people. nuff said ... if the majority says crossbows..then so be it..I'm waiting to see it first. and please..don't reply with that survey of a few hundred.. there's half a million hunters in Kentucky.

[Willie]

We the people. nuff said ... if the majority says crossbows..then so be it..I'm waiting to see it first. and please..don't reply with that survey of a few hundred.. there's half a million hunters in Kentucky.

Do you realize how much money it would take to survey the entire "half million hunters in Kentucky"?

There were more than a "few hundred" that responded. As I recall it was close to 3500. That is a LOT more than a "few hundred" isn't it?

It was a scientific representative survey. Like the results are not, they are valid. The commissioners know it and so do the politicians that you guys are trying to arm twist.

Walt- you are doing sour grapes.

[gwhilikerz]

"We the people"? Are you saying ubk speaks for all people? Careful Walt, you guys are opening a can of worms for sure. When you say we the people you are saying that it should be brought up for a vote of "we the people". That means not only hunters but non-hunters, anti-hunting "peta" type groups. Are you really willing to jeopardize ALL our hunting just so the UBK and other selfish bowhunters can have a season all to yourself and also be allowed to hunt everyone else's season? When the precedent is set and the xbow question is reversed get ready for the onslaught. And I'm not too sure I will be willing to support you when you start crying "They are taking my RIGHT to hunt away!"
I know my words mean nothing to you personally, but some of you bowhunters and ubk members who have not been so outspoken on the xbow issue had better understand what could happen if your "spokespeople" get their way.

[buckfever]

Hey now, I love my big girl! She'd kick my butt if she read this -- she ain't big, but if she were ...... ;) (I'm not getting into the xbow debate).

Your first mistake was using the word "big." My wife is 6' tall, and I get my ears boxed any time the word "big" ever leaves my mouth (even if I'm talking about something completely unrelated to her). I think the acceptable words (although I haven't been brave enough to test 'em out) might be "tall", "statuesque", "striking" or "stately". "Heavy" and "fat" are clearly out, and I haven't tested out "well proportioned", but suspect that would get me a frying pan upside the ol' noggin.

Easy on Creekdawg, guys. He was just making a joke. I didn't see all this political correctness when Multi was asking whether Walt's divorce files were matters of public record and when he called his wife an "old hag". We can all disagree on things without completely losing our sense of humor.

[buckfever]

Do you realize how much money it would take to survey the entire "half million hunters in Kentucky"?

There were more than a "few hundred" that responded. As I recall it was close to 3500. That is a LOT more than a "few hundred" isn't it?

It was a scientific representative survey. Like the results are not, they are valid. The commissioners know it and so do the politicians that you guys are trying to arm twist.

Walt- you are doing sour grapes.

I agree that the survey was large enough to get a viable sampling.

I giggle to myself when I hear people declare "it's now official: the crossbow survey question was 'scientific' and produced 'valid' results."

How do you know this survey was "scientific"? What, the margin of error? I'm sure you'll agree with me that the margin of error only tells you that you'd get the exact same result (plus or minus the error margin) if you asked the same question to a similarly situated, larger group. It says nothing about the content of the question, how people understand the question, or whether the answers are connected to the actual issue the surveyors are trying to determine.

Do you know who actually drafted this survey? Do you know what they were trying to measure? And what is your basis for saying that the results used in the March 4th meeting were "valid"?

I've personally spoken to several "principles" (as Multi calls them) who seemed more than a little perplexed (to put it mildly) when they learned that the so-called public support for this crossbow season initiative was taken from the results of this survey question. I won't bother you with what a political polling expert friend of mine thought about the question when I asked him about it, but I can promise you the words weren't "scientific" or "valid" or "accurate".

[shogan]

BuckFever,

Did you just call someones wife a disagreeable old hag that lost her sense of humor and insenuate the word big can't even be used to describe her.

Or am I reading too much between the lines.

I'm a sportsman and Im not nor will I ever be represented by Any association that has taken such a stand on a legatimate weapon.

Still can't figure out what their fuss is

Because while all the literature says it's an idealism issue, their ranks say it's to much foot pressure on the woods/herd (depending on who your talking to). And their policticians say it was an unfair way the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources handled because they didn't get permission from UBK. WHAT!

Well to heck with UBK I hope the association drowns in it's own regurgitated political vomit, is that to strong of an analogy.

Here is one bow hunter who is adimently opposed to an association like this going against hunters. My first brand new crossbow is on the way And I'm going to use it this fall Watch ME. And I"m throwing away my old worthless HOYT never to be used again wont even let anyone else have for fear that it might breed more selfish, self centered, egotisticaly blow hards like some of you. I'm just glad I managed to avoid the wrath of the in line bow.

Whats wrong UBK you don't want to share the woods from September to Freaking January except say a few days here and there. You can have 99.9% let off but hey don't go to a 100 because then it's not a bow.

If I were in charge of KDFWR I woud do you STINGY UBK HUNTERS LIKE I do my 4 year old well if you cant share then you don't get to play at all.

And finally your not sportsmen because sportsmen would not throw a tantrum because the state decided broaden the base of archery weapons allowed. Lets remember thats all they did.

I ve said it before on other issues let the KDFWR manage the hunting issues that's what they do. Our efforts are worthwhile when and only when we fight things that are anti hunting/fishing (like some time back the commerical fishing idea) but when you all set out to set one group of hunters against another then you looking for disaster.

And my wife weighs 105lbs but if she were shapely I'd love her just as much.

[buckfever]

BuckFever,

Did you just call someones wife a disagreeable old hag that lost her sense of humor and insenuate the word big can't even be used to describe her.

Or am I reading too much between the lines.

I'm a sportsman and Im not nor will I ever be represented by Any association that has taken such a stand on a legatimate weapon.

Still can't figure out what their fuss is

Because while all the literature says it's an idealism issue, their ranks say it's to much foot pressure on the woods/herd (depending on who your talking to). And their policticians say it was an unfair way the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources handled because they didn't get permission from UBK. WHAT!

Well to heck with UBK I hope the association drowns in it's own regurgitated political vomit, is that to strong of an analogy.

Here is one bow hunter who is adimently opposed to an association like this going against hunters. My first brand new crossbow is on the way And I'm going to use it this fall Watch ME. And I"m throwing away my old worthless HOYT never to be used again wont even let anyone else have for fear that it might breed more selfish, self centered, egotisticaly blow hards like some of you. I'm just glad I managed to avoid the wrath of the in line bow.

Whats wrong UBK you don't want to share the woods from September to Freaking January except say a few days here and there. You can have 99.9% let off but hey don't go to a 100 because then it's not a bow.

If I were in charge of KDFWR I woud do you STINGY UBK HUNTERS LIKE I do my 4 year old well if you cant share then you don't get to play at all.

And finally your not sportsmen because sportsmen would not throw a tantrum because the state decided broaden the base of archery weapons allowed. Lets remember thats all they did.

I ve said it before on other issues let the KDFWR manage the hunting issues that's what they do. Our efforts are worthwhile when and only when we fight things that are anti hunting/fishing (like some time back the commerical fishing idea) but when you all set out to set one group of hunters against another then you looking for disaster.

And my wife weighs 105lbs but if she were shapely I'd love her just as much.

Sho - In response to your first few sentences, I definitely think you were reading in between the lines too much. I'm not sure who the rest was directed at, but I think you've made your opinion clear.

[aceoky]

I think that you did a very good job of voicing how "out of hand " some people's stance has become over another CHOICE of an archery weapon!

Buckfever; "the so-called public support for this crossbow season "

Wonder if it's "so-called" because you do not agree with the outcome???

This may well "shock and upset" a few of you anti-crossbowers; but the Dept. isn't in the business of "catering to a select few" they are however in the business of doing what is best over-all for EVERYONE and that IS what this has done!

I've asked (often) for PROOF/DATA/FACTS on how this will hurt ANYTHING, yet to this date; haven't seen ONE posted!!Instead all I keep reading is MINE MINE MINE(the four year old seems to me to be a very good analogy here) :D

The only thing that I've seen from this "MINE" attitude, is; makiing things worse for yourselves(and possibly all of us as well) :( Without DATA supporting your stance; IMHO there is simply NO reason to consider changing the bow season, and I seriously doubt that it will be changed; x-bow sales, are UP, more hunters= good for all , and the State and the DEPT. Seems to me, that was the goal, and it's already working! Why "fix" what isn't broken??? :)

[grinder]

i understand from the info i received today that NWTF, LKS as well as of course UBK are against crossbows during archery season, in spite of what some claimed on this site earlier. who are we to believe? somboy's got to be lyin' !!

[grinder]

sorry about the typos

[gwhilikerz]

i understand from the info i received today that NWTF, LKS as well as of course UBK are against crossbows during archery season, in spite of what some claimed on this site earlier. who are we to believe? somboy's got to be lyin' !!
grinder i have heard the lies on here before about who is for or against what. I emailed both organizations and asked the to clarify their positions. I will post their reply as soon as i get it. Needless to say I didn't contact UBK. I wouldn't believe those guys about anything anymore.

[gwhilikerz]

shogan great post! I have decided the same thing about bowhunting. My two compounds and two longbows are now in retirement for good. I will purchase a new xbow and that is my ARCHERY weapon from now on. And yes I will use it during the regular archery season no matter what happens in the future concerning the new rules. I have long put off getting the disabled permit, but I do qualify and if that is what it takes I will do so. And I dare any UBK member or other bowhunter that I meet in the field to say anything about it. But I have no worries there. Most of those guys are real good about saying things like; "He must be cheating, he don't look disabled to me". But they never seem to say it to the person with the disability. And to all you "real" bowhunters who will say i don't want to do all that is involved in shooting a vertical bow and am not willing to put in my time to be successful, I can point to the fact that I have numerous tournament trophies in storage and several deer to go with them. And all this bullshit has made me ashamed to say i am a bowhunter.
I edited this post because I can't be exactly sure how many deer I've taken with a bow in the last 40 years.

[joekat46]

Good decision. I'm fast approaching 60 and have mild arthritis and an old torn rotator cup injury. I shouldn't have any trouble getting a Florida (my current home state) xbow exemption. If it isn't honored in KY, and despite what some legal minds seem to imply, I'm betting the ADA will apply. "Team Selfish" deserves to have this shoved right up their rear end.

P.S. - this surveying ALL the people in the Commonwealth is just what the anti-hunters want. They call it a voter referendum and it is their tactic of choice when they can't find a sympathetic judge. I said it before but "Team Selfish" is on a suicide mission. Maybe the antis can start their bowhunting attack in KY. Wouldn't that be ironic?

[Papaw]

Approx. 45 yrs ago when the deer population was very small I remember a similar topic of discussion with Bow hunters,( I was able to bow hunt then) It was about that new Mechanical Bow(now called compound etc.) There were many that was against the legal use of them as they gave the hunter to much of an advantage. Those people are long forgotten now. I feel sure that in a few years this discussion will be forgotten and every one will still have plenty of deer to hunt based on the population and increases.

The KDFWR has in the past few years with their dictatorial attitude has tended to divide and conquer the sportsmen of Ky. The groups with the big money have been running the KDFWR and getting what they want at the expense of the others.

Sportmen it is time that we all support each other's interest and make all of Ky a better place for all of us. I don't intent to hunt with either bow. I enjoyed hunting and fishing for 57 good yrs. Ill health has limited me to very little of either however I can ride around view and take pictures and believe me it is a beautiful world. Open our eyes,minds and hearts to our surroundings.

Song: I want to live, live and let live I want all the love this world has to give I want to live and let you live some too.

[Willie]

Good decision. I'm fast approaching 60 and have mild arthritis and an old torn rotator cup injury. I shouldn't have any trouble getting a Florida (my current home state) xbow exemption. If it isn't honored in KY, and despite what some legal minds seem to imply, I'm betting the ADA will apply. "Team Selfish" deserves to have this shoved right up their rear end.

P.S. - this surveying ALL the people in the Commonwealth is just what the anti-hunters want. They call it a voter referendum and it is their tactic of choice when they can't find a sympathetic judge. I said it before but "Team Selfish" is on a suicide mission. Maybe the antis can start their bowhunting attack in KY. Wouldn't that be ironic?

Print this out and have your doctor fill it out and sign it. Carry it while using a crossbow in KY and it is valid...


http://fw.ky.gov/huntexemptcross.asp

[Multidigits]

We the people. nuff said ... if the majority says crossbows..then so be it..I'm waiting to see it first. and please..don't reply with that survey of a few hundred.. there's half a million hunters in Kentucky.

Whining Walt, I've got $200 that says we are hunting with X-bows on Sept. 3rd. Let me know if we have a bet. Spending your money will be better than eating free on Rick Hahn. :D

[grinder]

i understand from the info i received today that NWTF, LKS as well as of course UBK are against crossbows during archery season, in spite of what some claimed on this site earlier. who are we to believe? somboy's got to be lyin' !!
well multi?

[Multidigits]

Your first mistake was using the word "big." My wife is 6' tall, and I get my ears boxed any time the word "big" ever leaves my mouth (even if I'm talking about something completely unrelated to her). I think the acceptable words (although I haven't been brave enough to test 'em out) might be "tall", "statuesque", "striking" or "stately". "Heavy" and "fat" are clearly out, and I haven't tested out "well proportioned", but suspect that would get me a frying pan upside the ol' noggin.

Easy on Creekdawg, guys. He was just making a joke. I didn't see all this political correctness when Multi was asking whether Walt's divorce files were matters of public record and when he called his wife an "old hag". We can all disagree on things without completely losing our sense of humor.

you'll need to post where the divorce question had anything to do with Walt's problems? And where I called his ex a OLD HAG???? Far as I;m concerned see did the right thing, least shows she's not stupid?

[Multidigits]

It really doesn't matter too much what you or your experts feel or think about the survey results. The survey was designed by KYDFWR people, the results are used by the same, and the Commission. The Commission has faith in it's employees and the employees work, including the survey. The survey and other like it are considered accurate by all parties that matter. Thse that don't agree can sit back and whine about it. The results were just one piece of data used to make this decision. The Commission could have made the decision without any data if they wanted. They didn't and studied what was available.

Who has a survey that shows it's not accurate???

[Multidigits]

i understand from the info i received today that NWTF, LKS as well as of course UBK are against crossbows during archery season, in spite of what some claimed on this site earlier. who are we to believe? somboy's got to be lyin' !!

Your correct, somebody is lying to you again. :D

[Multidigits]

well multi?

You answered your own question. Re-read your post. Then post up where the LKs has made a stance on the issue. Then post where the NWTF national or Kentucky branch has poled it's members and made an official statement one way or the other. Post it up.

[grinder]

i'm just looking for the truth, are you saying NWTF and LKS are in favor of x-bows all through archery season? if so where can i view this data in fact instead of rumor.

[Multidigits]

i'm just looking for the truth, are you saying NWTF and LKS are in favor of x-bows all through archery season? if so where can i view this data in fact instead of rumor.

You made the statement that they both were against the crossbow change, I said it is a lie. You post up where they have said they are against it. Your turn to shine. Post it up.

[buckfever]

you'll need to post where the divorce question had anything to do with Walt's problems? And where I called his ex a OLD HAG???? Far as I;m concerned see did the right thing, least shows she's not stupid?

You threatened to dig up all of the "skeletons" in Walt's and my closets. In that same post, you made some stupid comment about Walt having a problem with women, obviously referring to his divorce. A day later, you start a thread asking if divorce records are open to the pubic. No, you didn't specifically state that you were asking about Walt's divorce records, but did you really need to at that point? No, instead you played a cute little game, just like you're doing now. If that post wasn't directed at Walt, it had amazing coincidental timing. I'd love to hear you explain how you think divorce records are even remotely relevant to any hunting issue or a hunting forum?

I didn't say you called Walt's wife an "old hag", that's what you called your own wife later in that thread. And I didn't see all the women's libbers jumping on the bandwagon there.

[gwhilikerz]

i'm just looking for the truth, are you saying NWTF and LKS are in favor of x-bows all through archery season? if so where can i view this data in fact instead of rumor.
No grinder you came with the intention to have people "suppose" the NWTF and LKS are against x-bows. Seems to me it was a similar lie that really came back to bite some folks March 4th. Multi called you hand, now let's see your cards. Show everybody that these groups have come out with an official statment against xbows.

[Multidigits]

You threatened to dig up all of the "skeletons" in Walt's and my closets. In that same post, you made some stupid comment about Walt having a problem with women, obviously referring to his divorce. A day later, you start a thread asking if divorce records are open to the pubic. No, you didn't specifically state that you were asking about Walt's divorce records, but did you really need to at that point? No, instead you played a cute little game, just like you're doing now. If that post wasn't directed at Walt, it had amazing coincidental timing. I'd love to hear you explain how you think divorce records are even remotely relevant to any hunting issue or a hunting forum?

I didn't say you called Walt's wife an "old hag", that's what you called your own wife later in that thread. And I didn't see all the women's libbers jumping on the bandwagon there.

Your a liar. Show anywhere in the divorce thread where I mentioned Walt's name. You know you can't. You need to get a life. You being the expert attorney knows that your evidence isn't there, again. Your record sucks when it comes to your trial experience.

[grinder]

No grinder you came with the intention to have people "suppose" the NWTF and LKS are against x-bows. Seems to me it was a similar lie that really came back to bite some folks March 4th. Multi called you hand, now let's see your cards. Show everybody that these groups have come out with an official statment against xbows.
i have no proof of for or opposed by any group. i really want to know they're official stance. i recieved a document in the mail stating they were opposed, i've seen posts on here they were for it. i'm not intrested in a game, just facts. my question is, "where can i get the facts?" do any of you guys have a contact ph# or e-mail address of either organization that will tell me what their official stance is? if so please post it for all to view. i'm for what the majority wants, and this should give me a good idea.

[grinder]

by either organization of course i mean NWTF or LKS

[Willie]

i have no proof of for or opposed by any group. i really want to know they're official stance. i recieved a document in the mail stating they were opposed, i've seen posts on here they were for it. i'm not intrested in a game, just facts. my question is, "where can i get the facts?" do any of you guys have a contact ph# or e-mail address of either organization that will tell me what their official stance is? if so please post it for all to view. i'm for what the majority wants, and this should give me a good idea.

But you did say - "I understand from the info i received today that NWTF, LKS as well as of course UBK are against crossbows during archery season, in spite of what some claimed on this site earlier. who are we to believe? somboy's got to be lyin' !!"

Question - Who sent you the "document"?

That is the person(s) you should be questioning.

How about scanning it and posting it here??

[P. Beyer]

http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/html/emoticons/smiley-pickin-on-horse.gif


Guys, That was an entertaining read. Thanks.

[grinder]

But you did say - "I understand from the info i received today that NWTF, LKS as well as of course UBK are against crossbows during archery season, in spite of what some claimed on this site earlier. who are we to believe? somboy's got to be lyin' !!"

Question - Who sent you the "document"?

That is the person(s) you should be questioning.

How about scanning it and posting it here??
the document was not sent by NWTF or LKS, which is who i want to hear from. my question is, "where can we all view the official stance of both" does anybody know?

[shogan]

SHEETTT

Now Im confused are we talking about archery hunting or some panty fight you girls had in the locker room about some bodies boy friend.

And don't nobody go talking about my MOMMA!

[grinder]

SHEETTT

Now Im confused are we talking about archery hunting or some panty fight you girls had in the locker room about some bodies boy friend.

And don't nobody go talking about my MOMMA!
now i'm confused !

[grinder]

the document was not sent by NWTF or LKS, which is who i want to hear from. my question is, "where can we all view the official stance of both" does anybody know?
try it again

[Willie]

the document was not sent by NWTF or LKS, which is who i want to hear from. my question is, "where can we all view the official stance of both" does anybody know?

AGAIN -

Question - Who sent you the "document"?

[grinder]

AGAIN -

Question - Who sent you the "document"?
who sent the document does not matter. it was not NWTF or LKS. they are the ones i want to hear from. DOES ANYBODY HAVE AN ADDRESS OR PH # FOR EITHER OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS? i guess i can find it on a search, it just perplexes me that so many people who appear active in this are not willing to post them. whats the secret?

[buckfever]

Your a liar. Show anywhere in the divorce thread where I mentioned Walt's name. You know you can't. You need to get a life. You being the expert attorney knows that your evidence isn't there, again. Your record sucks when it comes to your trial experience.

A. I already said you didn't mention Walt's name, but mentioning his name was completely unnecessary, b/c any idiot who read your contemporaneous "skeletons in the closet" post knew that you were referring to him. Save your bullshit for somebody else.
B. "Get a life" - Interesting comment from a guy who seemingly lives on Kyhunting. Hold that thought while I make another 7000 posts, so that I too can "have a life."
C. "Expert attorney" - When did I ever say that? I thought I was just another hunter. "Trial Experience" - First, since when did anything I've said on here ever make it to a courtroom? You have no idea how good (or bad) of an attorney I am or even whether I'm a trial or transactional attorney, so if you're going to try to insult me, at least come up with something that at least has some basis to it. At a minimum, come up with something a little more creative that simply "you're a liar."

[Multidigits]

who sent the document does not matter. it was not NWTF or LKS. they are the ones i want to hear from. DOES ANYBODY HAVE AN ADDRESS OR PH # FOR EITHER OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS? i guess i can find it on a search, it just perplexes me that so many people who appear active in this are not willing to post them. whats the secret?

Grinder, I remember you saying once before that both where against the crossbow change. Your credibility is zero. When you make stupid statements when you know they are absolutely false, then it's a lie. So, if you have a source that twlls you something and you don't research it, and post the info out there as if it's true, then your lying to try and get your point across. It ain't working real well, because I know for a fact that it ain't true. sorry about your luck. Let's say this, you need a more reliable source because yours is wrong on all counts.

[creekdawgg]

Why is everyone a liar in your book? Grinder asked a question? I dont see where you posted anything that calls his source a liar.

[Multidigits]

A. I already said you didn't mention Walt's name, but mentioning his name was completely unnecessary, b/c any idiot who read your contemporaneous "skeletons in the closet" post knew that you were referring to him. Save your bullshit for somebody else.

Q. I'm way ahead of you on this one. what you think happened is only a figment of your imagination. The info I wanted, I got and it wasn't about Walt or his trouble with women.

B. "Get a life" - Interesting comment from a guy who seemingly lives on Kyhunting. Hold that thought while I make another 7000 posts, so that I too can "have a life."

Q. 7000+ posts, most of them not about the crossbow. I've been a member of this board as long or longer than most people. I post a lot. So what? Are you jealous or what?

C. "Expert attorney" - When did I ever say that? I thought I was just another hunter. "Trial Experience" - First, since when did anything I've said on here ever make it to a courtroom? You have no idea how good (or bad) of an attorney I am or even whether I'm a trial or transactional attorney, so if you're going to try to insult me, at least come up with something that at least has some basis to it. At a minimum, come up with something a little more creative that simply "you're a liar."

Q. It sure wasn't me who called you an expert attorney was it? If I did, then it was a mistake and I appoligize for lying, because we can see it's not true.

The "your a liar" comment wasn't intended to be creative, just the facts. The truth is my absoulute defense on that one. :D

[Multidigits]

Why is everyone a liar in your book? Grinder asked a question? I dont see where you posted anything that calls his source a liar.

I'll delete my post and appoligize to grinder for calling him a liar. I'll say this. It's not the first time he's posted wrong info on this same subject. Weather or not he even has a source or not, who knows. But we do know his source is wrong, and if he had checked his facts, he to would know that what he posted is in error. Plus, he's posted the same crap before and was told then it wasn't true. Maybe he's lying maybe he's just badly misinformed, maybe he just want to throw out the wrong info to confuse a few people for a minute or two? Doesn't matter, because we're used to his side doing the same throughout this whole deal. Misinfo seems to be the norm from the anti crowd.

[creekdawgg]

I wasnt talking about grinder, I was talking about buckfever. He seems to be a good guy standing up for something he believes in, just like you.



I'll delete my post and appoligize to grinder for calling him a liar. I'll say this. It's not the first time he's posted wrong info on this same subject. Weather or not he even has a source or not, who knows. But we do know his source is wrong, and if he had checked his facts, he to would know that what he posted is in error. Plus, he's posted the same crap before and was told then it wasn't true. Maybe he's lying maybe he's just badly misinformed, maybe he just want to throw out the wrong info to confuse a few people for a minute or two? Doesn't matter, because we're used to his side doing the same throughout this whole deal. Misinfo seems to be the norm from the anti crowd.

[Multidigits]

I wasnt talking about grinder, I was talking about buckfever. He seems to be a good guy standing up for something he believes in, just like you.

When he lies, I'll call him on it. You praise who you want.

[Willie]

who sent the document does not matter. it was not NWTF or LKS. they are the ones i want to hear from. DOES ANYBODY HAVE AN ADDRESS OR PH # FOR EITHER OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS? i guess i can find it on a search, it just perplexes me that so many people who appear active in this are not willing to post them. whats the secret?

If THEY lied to you wouldn't you want to know?

Post it up and maybe someone on here can help you.


Of course it could be just a mis-information campaign and you really dont want peopel to know who is behind it.

[grinder]

Grinder, I remember you saying once before that both where against the crossbow change. Your credibility is zero. When you make stupid statements when you know they are absolutely false, then it's a lie. So, if you have a source that twlls you something and you don't research it, and post the info out there as if it's true, then your lying to try and get your point across. It ain't working real well, because I know for a fact that it ain't true. sorry about your luck. Let's say this, you need a more reliable source because yours is wrong on all counts.
i don't recall making the stastement both were against. if i did i wish you would post it. you don't have to get all defensive. i had a simple question, "where does NWTF and LKS stand in this fight? what is their official stance? where can i see it one way or the other? whats the contact info on these organizations? i'm sure you know, why don't you post it? i will find out,when i do i will post it. whats the big secret? i don't want the opinion of one person, or the opinion of one organization, thats why i'm asking.

[gwhilikerz]

i don't recall making the stastement both were against. if i did i wish you would post it. you don't have to get all defensive. i had a simple question, "where does NWTF and LKS stand in this fight? what is their official stance? where can i see it one way or the other? whats the contact info on these organizations? i'm sure you know, why don't you post it? i will find out,when i do i will post it. whats the big secret? i don't want the opinion of one person, or the opinion of one organization, thats why i'm asking.

grinder here is what you posted:
Originally Posted by grinder
"i understand from the info i received today that NWTF, LKS as well as of course UBK are against crossbows during archery season, in spite of what some claimed on this site earlier. who are we to believe? somboy's got to be lyin' !!" (end quote)
Now somebody is lying! It is easy enough to find out who. Go to NWTF website and ask their officers via e-mail what the official stance is. Same for LKS. That part is easy. Now tell us who sent you that "document" and we can sort it all out. But from where I am sitting it is becoming very clear who the liar is.

[Multidigits]

i don't recall making the stastement both were against. if i did i wish you would post it. you don't have to get all defensive. i had a simple question, "where does NWTF and LKS stand in this fight? what is their official stance? where can i see it one way or the other? whats the contact info on these organizations? i'm sure you know, why don't you post it? i will find out,when i do i will post it. whats the big secret? i don't want the opinion of one person, or the opinion of one organization, thats why i'm asking.

The Hillary defense....nice try.

You posted that you heard they were against it and didn't check it out.

You can check with the Ky-NWTF on their stance, if they have one. The LKS dosen't have a stance, and won't. They support all hunting groups, not just the elitists groups. Don't confuse what happens at a Federation meeting with the official stance of the LKS.

[grinder]

The Hillary defense....nice try.

You posted that you heard they were against it and didn't check it out.

You can check with the Ky-NWTF on their stance, if they have one. The LKS dosen't have a stance, and won't. They support all hunting groups, not just the elitists groups. Don't confuse what happens at a Federation meeting with the official stance of the LKS.
i posted here to try and get some info other than just what i recieved, that is checking it out. instead of help, i get attacked and called a liar. nobody seems to want to post any type of contacts even though some have claimed these organizations are for the crossbow archery season. i figured if you knew the stanceyou would be willing to post contacts, wrong again. i did finally e-mail both NWTF and LKS, and will post the responses with their permission. as far as the LKS our trad only bowclub is an affiliate of the LKS. if LKS has accepted us as an affiliate we must not be elitist...,

[grinder]

grinder here is what you posted:
Originally Posted by grinder
"i understand from the info i received today that NWTF, LKS as well as of course UBK are against crossbows during archery season, in spite of what some claimed on this site earlier. who are we to believe? somboy's got to be lyin' !!" (end quote)
Now somebody is lying! It is easy enough to find out who. Go to NWTF website and ask their officers via e-mail what the official stance is. Same for LKS. That part is easy. Now tell us who sent you that "document" and we can sort it all out. But from where I am sitting it is becoming very clear who the liar is.
i'm just trying to get more input.i want something official, not just opinions of individuals. i hope you don't think i'm the liar.
, you can check every post i've ever made an research all you want, i've only given my opinions, never a lie. others don't necessarilly abide by these rules. and yes, there is trash talk on both sides of the fence. very unproductive.no good, and only hard feelings result, dividing sportsman that need to stay united

[Multidigits]

i posted here to try and get some info other than just what i recieved, that is checking it out. instead of help, i get attacked and called a liar. nobody seems to want to post any type of contacts even though some have claimed these organizations are for the crossbow archery season. i figured if you knew the stanceyou would be willing to post contacts, wrong again. i did finally e-mail both NWTF and LKS, and will post the responses with their permission. as far as the LKS our trad only bowclub is an affiliate of the LKS. if LKS has accepted us as an affiliate we must not be elitist...,

Had the LKS voted to have a stance, which it hasn't, I would know about it. It would happen in a Board meeting. You can contact any number of people and varify that the LKS doesn't have a stance. The LKS has several groups as affiliated members, one of them is the UCBK. They represent us as well as they do you. There's certainly a lot of crossbow users and potential crossbow users in the LKS now, so it would be stupid for them to set a policy to be against any one particular group.

and had you posted that you wanted the info instead of posted that you already had the wrong info, your search would have been quicker and easier. Besides that, it's the second time we've been over the same exact thing with you.

Contact Xtreme, Bowcrazy, WBBP, Kent Cooper, Grouseguy, GSP or Birdman to verify any of this info about the LKS. Birdman is the PResident of the LKS. The others are Directors.

[grinder]

Had the LKS voted to have a stance, which it hasn't, I would know about it. It would happen in a Board meeting. You can contact any number of people and varify that the LKS doesn't have a stance. The LKS has several groups as affiliated members, one of them is the UCBK. They represent us as well as they do you. There's certainly a lot of crossbow users and potential crossbow users in the LKS now, so it would be stupid for them to set a policy to be against any one particular group.

and had you posted that you wanted the info instead of posted that you already had the wrong info, your search would have been quicker and easier. Besides that, it's the second time we've been over the same exact thing with you.

Contact Xtreme, Bowcrazy, WBBP, Kent Cooper, Grouseguy, GSP or Birdman to verify any of this info about the LKS. Birdman is the PResident of the LKS. The others are Directors.
thankyou! i have been doing some searching, and have not found anything. i guess we can't say that LKS supports or oposes the x-bow issue than can we?

[Multidigits]

thankyou! i have been doing some searching, and have not found anything. i guess we can't say that LKS supports or oposes the x-bow issue than can we?

You can say that the LKS does not have a policy on the crossbow. Who said that they supported it???

[Birdman]

To clarify something, no one on this site speaks for the LKS, BOTTOM LINE.

[gwhilikerz]

To clarify something, no one on this site speaks for the LKS, BOTTOM LINE.
Thank you for that Birdman. There is no way anyone on here should be considered a spokesperson when it comes to "official" stances and such. Heck we all go by "aliases" here:)

[shogan]

On one on here speaks for me unless they have written authorization

[gwhilikerz]

i understand from the info i received today that NWTF, LKS as well as of course UBK are against crossbows during archery season, in spite of what some claimed on this site earlier. who are we to believe? somboy's got to be lyin' !!

Ok grinder here is what I found out by asking the LKS about their stance on xbows. I know you have been asking for this info, enjoy. I do hope this clears up who is lying about what.
from Ronnie Wells:
Pete, the league has not taken an official stands on this matter other than backing the system in which we helped develop many years ago. If anything illegal took place during the crossbow issue, we would take a stands. We feel like we could have helped on this issue if the commission had ask for our HELP, before the isssue came to a vote, but that didn't happen. Anything you read on Kentucky Hunting. Com than says the league is backing anything other than what I have shared with you is wrong.

from Dowd Bruton
NWTF
Pete, I am the Regional Wildlife Biologist for the NWTF that covers Kentucky. The NWTF is aware of the issue of crossbow hunting in Kentucky. We support the hunting tradition. Whether with a gun, bow, or crossbow, just as long as it is legal and ethical. I have had several conversations with individuals who do not support the extended season. I have had conversations with wildlife biologist with KYDFWR who don't believe that there will be any adverse affect on turkeys from the extended season. At the present time, we are reviewing all the information from both NWTF membership and KYDFWR and have not taken any stance what so ever. We have always had an excellent working relationship with Kentucky Wildlife and put our utmost faith in what their biologist believe is the best decision for the resource. At the same time, we are always listening to what our membership has to say. We always make an effort to support membership opinions, if they can be supported by sound biological facts. Presently, we are in a fact finding mode. We're listening and trying to decide what is the proper reaction to best represent the turkey resource in KY.

[aceoky]

I've noticed that ALL of the facts and data SUPPORTS x-bows??? (as in the above post)

[turk2di]

Ok grinder here is what I found out by asking the LKS about their stance on xbows. I know you have been asking for this info, enjoy. I do hope this clears up who is lying about what.
from Ronnie Wells:
Pete, the league has not taken an official stands on this matter other than backing the system in which we helped develop many years ago. If anything illegal took place during the crossbow issue, we would take a stands. We feel like we could have helped on this issue if the commission had ask for our HELP, before the isssue came to a vote, but that didn't happen. Anything you read on Kentucky Hunting. Com than says the league is backing anything other than what I have shared with you is wrong.

from Dowd Bruton
NWTF
Pete, I am the Regional Wildlife Biologist for the NWTF that covers Kentucky. The NWTF is aware of the issue of crossbow hunting in Kentucky. We support the hunting tradition. Whether with a gun, bow, or crossbow, just as long as it is legal and ethical. I have had several conversations with individuals who do not support the extended season. I have had conversations with wildlife biologist with KYDFWR who don't believe that there will be any adverse affect on turkeys from the extended season. At the present time, we are reviewing all the information from both NWTF membership and KYDFWR and have not taken any stance what so ever. We have always had an excellent working relationship with Kentucky Wildlife and put our utmost faith in what their biologist believe is the best decision for the resource. At the same time, we are always listening to what our membership has to say. We always make an effort to support membership opinions, if they can be supported by sound biological facts. Presently, we are in a fact finding mode. We're listening and trying to decide what is the proper reaction to best represent the turkey resource in KY.

The more i think about it, the more i feel that perhaps it's not the x-bow im concerned with in regards to turkeys as with archery in general on turkeys. Don't get me wrong, i support archery on turkeys and hunt them myself. Rather it's on the alarming rate of unrecovered turkeys after a hit. The % of turkeys hit/recovered appears to me 2b unacceptably low! Just last season i know of 18 birds popped and just one recovered:eek: I just felt that with the rifle mentality many view the x-bow, it will embolden shots that are iffy at best. Maybe in the grand numbers game, the loss is sustainable, but to me, it's a problem that needs 2b addressed, not to ignore.

[Multidigits]

The more i think about it, the more i feel that perhaps it's not the x-bow im concerned with in regards to turkeys as with archery in general on turkeys. Don't get me wrong, i support archery on turkeys and hunt them myself. Rather it's on the alarming rate of unrecovered turkeys after a hit. The % of turkeys hit/recovered appears to me 2b unacceptably low! Just last season i know of 18 birds popped and just one recovered:eek: I just felt that with the rifle mentality many view the x-bow, it will embolden shots that are iffy at best. Maybe in the grand numbers game, the loss is sustainable, but to me, it's a problem that needs 2b addressed, not to ignore.

Turk,respectively your wrong. Here's why. We see less than 900 birds killed with archery statewide, all year long. The crossbow statistics in states that allow them are the same as regular archery. Just with guns, there will be birds shot and not recovered. As with deer, not all of these hits will be fatal. As with guns, the precentage will be much lower than the number wounded with shotguns. As you say, you cite the unrecovered turkeys, by the same token, I can relate stories of a similar number of birds shot and recovered. Based on statistics, the crossbow will have no negative effect on the turkey flock. Ky. has a expert turkey biologist in Jim Lane. IT's time to pay attention to what he's saying for a change.

[grinder]

Ok grinder here is what I found out by asking the LKS about their stance on xbows. I know you have been asking for this info, enjoy. I do hope this clears up who is lying about what.
from Ronnie Wells:
Pete, the league has not taken an official stands on this matter other than backing the system in which we helped develop many years ago. If anything illegal took place during the crossbow issue, we would take a stands. We feel like we could have helped on this issue if the commission had ask for our HELP, before the isssue came to a vote, but that didn't happen. Anything you read on Kentucky Hunting. Com than says the league is backing anything other than what I have shared with you is wrong.

from Dowd Bruton
NWTF
Pete, I am the Regional Wildlife Biologist for the NWTF that covers Kentucky. The NWTF is aware of the issue of crossbow hunting in Kentucky. We support the hunting tradition. Whether with a gun, bow, or crossbow, just as long as it is legal and ethical. I have had several conversations with individuals who do not support the extended season. I have had conversations with wildlife biologist with KYDFWR who don't believe that there will be any adverse affect on turkeys from the extended season. At the present time, we are reviewing all the information from both NWTF membership and KYDFWR and have not taken any stance what so ever. We have always had an excellent working relationship with Kentucky Wildlife and put our utmost faith in what their biologist believe is the best decision for the resource. At the same time, we are always listening to what our membership has to say. We always make an effort to support membership opinions, if they can be supported by sound biological facts. Presently, we are in a fact finding mode. We're listening and trying to decide what is the proper reaction to best represent the turkey resource in KY.

thanks, i just got the same e-mail reply from dowd last night. looks like they are nuetral to me. whatever is legal.

[Multidigits]

Quote- "I have had conversations with wildlife biologist with KYDFWR who don't believe that there will be any adverse affect on turkeys from the extended season."


In the past, on important turkey decisions, the KY-NWTF has ALWAYS took the advice of the KYDFWR biologist as gospel. :confused:

[Willie]

thanks, i just got the same e-mail reply from dowd last night. looks like they are nuetral to me. whatever is legal.

OK... now who was the liar(s) that sent you the "document"??

Reveal to us who is spreading lies in this campaign..

Thank you..

[grinder]

if i wanted to post about lies i could post things said by both sides. i'll post none.

[Willie]

if i wanted to post about lies i could post things said by both sides. i'll post none.

You misunderstood me. I'm not asking you to post lies. I'm asking you to identify the liars.

You did find out that the "document" was a lie, didn't you?

Not sure about you, but I would would be highly pi$$ed if someone lied to me and I would tell the whole world. I'd break them of sucking eggs..

[aceoky]

turk; with all due respect;(at least from what I've seen) the "rifle mentallity" is coming from the opposistion(and I'd bet most haven't even shot one at that) (trying to make something out of it that it is NOT) :D

Most of those supporting; and a huge majority(if not all) that own and shoot them KNOW they aren't "long range meat getters" any more (and many times less) than a compound bow) :)

Simply because it has a stock, and a trigger doesn't change the fact that it IS still archery equip , and works the same exact way!

ALL of the facts support the use of x-bows in the archery season, I've seen 0 (zero) that support any reason to not allow it; time IMHO will prove that it is a working soloution; and a good idea, for ALL of us!

[gwhilikerz]

thanks, i just got the same e-mail reply from dowd last night. looks like they are nuetral to me. whatever is legal.

"We support the hunting tradition. Whether with a gun, bow, or crossbow, just as long as it is legal and ethical."
I suppose you could say that because NWTF is not against the xbow they are neutral. That works ok for me. But now where did that notion come from that they were "against"? This practice of putting stuff out here that isn't true and suggesting it is true needs to stop. I would be very interested in knowing your source for that "document" you posted about?

[shogan]

Opps sorry thought we were talking about UBK

We urge concerned sportsmen to contact the representatives below and ask them to rescind or table the KDFWR's move to allow crossbows into the entire archery season. Keep Kentucky's archery season challenging. Don't procrastinate, do it today!

You see their true point right there now here is the bull poop they are going to use

We don't feel the process met legislative intent.

We feel we were denied input into the regulation process because the action taken by the commission was not adequately noted or posted prior to the meeting.


The commission's official agenda for March 4th listed crossbow 'survey'. 'Survey' does not indicate that it was expected to be an action item voted upon, to allow crossbows into the entire archery season. This was misleading..

Many sportsmen feel that they did not have proper representation from their commissioners

http://www.unitedbowhuntersofkentucky.org/

[Duster]

The commission's official agenda for March 4th listed crossbow 'survey'. 'Survey' does not indicate that it was expected to be an action item voted upon, to allow crossbows into the entire archery season. This was misleading.. .... Only if you stop reading the agenda at that point

Was not the next topic on the agenda....Deer Season Framework ? Does this not mean length of seasons, weapon types allowed, number of deer that can be harvested legal (bag limits) , zone changes...ect ????

[Multidigits]

The commission's official agenda for March 4th listed crossbow 'survey'. 'Survey' does not indicate that it was expected to be an action item voted upon, to allow crossbows into the entire archery season. This was misleading.. .... Only if you stop reading the agenda at that point

Was not the next topic on the agenda....Deer Season Framework ? Does this not mean length of seasons, weapon types allowed, number of deer that can be harvested legal (bag limits) , zone changes...ect ????


Duster, your a genius. the agenda correctly said "crossbow survey" meaning the topic would be discussed in relation to the question on the latest survey. It was, and there were NO negative comments from anyone during the Committee meetings. It was approved to be taken to the full board, and it was. The Board discussed. As I remember, each Commissioner said something one way or the other on the topic. And those that wanted to speak in the audience got too, for the most part.

The next item was when the room cleared and the season structure solidified. Yet there was no oppisition to the crossbow change and it passed. All the season changes passed as presented. No discussion form the group because they left in a huff. the agenda was followed, and the decision will stand.

[grinder]

Duster, your a genius. the agenda correctly said "crossbow survey" meaning the topic would be discussed in relation to the question on the latest survey. It was, and there were NO negative comments from anyone during the Committee meetings. It was approved to be taken to the full board, and it was. The Board discussed. As I remember, each Commissioner said something one way or the other on the topic. And those that wanted to speak in the audience got too, for the most part.

The next item was when the room cleared and the season structure solidified. Yet there was no oppisition to the crossbow change and it passed. All the season changes passed as presented. No discussion form the group because they left in a huff. the agenda was followed, and the decision will stand.
no negative comments? how many people stood up and spoke against it? how many in favor?the only people i remember that were in favor were you, and the crossbow rep from ohio. the only reason i left is i had just worked a 12 hr night shift, and had a 30 target 3-d course to set that afternoon. besides it was voted to go. what more could we do by staying?

[grinder]

also the handouts that morning allready had crossbow season all through archery season. that tells me they're minds were all ready made, and the input at the meeting ment nothing. tell it like it was.

[gwhilikerz]

no negative comments? how many people stood up and spoke against it? how many in favor?the only people i remember that were in favor were you, and the crossbow rep from ohio. the only reason i left is i had just worked a 12 hr night shift, and had a 30 target 3-d course to set that afternoon. besides it was voted to go. what more could we do by staying?
grinder I believe the "NO negative comments" was during committee meetings, then came the full board commission meeting where comments were made by several people. I may be wrong so if you were in a committee meeting you will be in a better position to speak about that.

[grinder]

grinder I believe the "NO negative comments" was during committee meetings, then came the full board commission meeting where comments were made by several people. I may be wrong so if you were in a committee meeting you will be in a better position to speak about that.
my bad, i guess i was in the latter, i saw many protest in it. i don't know the full process of this as many of you guys do. it was my first time, i plan on it not being the last.

[Multidigits]

no negative comments? how many people stood up and spoke against it? how many in favor?the only people i remember that were in favor were you, and the crossbow rep from ohio. the only reason i left is i had just worked a 12 hr night shift, and had a 30 target 3-d course to set that afternoon. besides it was voted to go. what more could we do by staying?

No negative comments in the Committee meeting......none. where was your lobbyist? He knows well enough that the deer/turkey season are always set in the Feb./March meetings. Your guy missed the meeting. Cyberhunter's covered and broke the news on the 'net later that day. There was no secrets and at that point, the jig was up.

Then when the deer/turkey season bag limits and season dates where discussed, there was no comments from any of the NWTF guys or anyone for that matter. Every single item passed as presented. Had anyone had an issue with the crossbow killing too many turkeys or deer, that was when it should have been noted. Didn't happen! Nary a comment, None, nada.

When the WMA quota and other WMA hunts were discussed, no one commented about 'TOO MANY' hunters on any of them. Not one comment, none NADA. Didn't happen.

Is it an issue, why wasn't someone there to voice their concerns??????