8th District Federation Meeting

[grouseguy]

MEETING NOTICE

EIGHTH DISTRICT WILDLIFE FEDERATION

The second quarter meeting of the Eighth District Wildlife Federation will be held at 7:00 p.m. on Wednesday, April 20 at the Trinity Fish and Game clubhouse in Lewis County.

[Birdman]

How many clubs are member of the league in the 8th?

[grouseguy]

At last count, the 8th had 5 member clubs, with 2 clubs (Elliott Co. Sportsmen & Trophy Hunters Archery) considering joining.

[grouseguy]

The 8th District Wildlife Federation met last night at the Trinity Fish & Game club in Lewis County, with 4 member clubs sending members. Highlights of the meeting were as follows:


Two new clubs joined the Federation last night...Welcome to the Elliott Co. Sportsmen's Club and the Greenup Co. Wildlife Club.
During the new business portion, the Elliott Co. Sportsmen's Club moved for a Federation vote on the crossbow issue. I explained that the state LKS would not be taking a position on this issue, since it pitted one group of sportsmen against another. Also, the Federation President, Michael Mefford, and myself advised against the Federation taking a position, but the motion was made and seconded and proceeded to a vote to oppose the KDFWR approval of crossbows during the entire archery season that passed 5-4. As an observation, it appeared that as many members present abstained as voted, and the Trinity Fish & Game club and the Greenup Co. Wildlife Club specifically stated that this issue was a non-issue in their clubs.
The worst news of the meeting came from KDFWR Regional Biologist, Steve Bonny, who informed the Federation that a 10 county block on northeastern and eastern KY counties were now WITHOUT a biologist due to Jason Plaxico being reassigned full time for nuisance elk work in Floyd Co. (I believe). The Elliott Co. Club, which is one of the counties without a biologist, questioned Steve about who would be approving their habitat work, plans, etc., and were told there was no one available to work on projects in any of those counties. I then told Steve that the LKS supported the field staff and was aware that this decision came from Frankfort, but that this situation was UNACCEPTABLE that 10 counties would be left uncovered in favor of protecting 2 private properties from elk damage. IMO, Jason Plaxico is one of the top biologists in eastern KY and its a shame that his talents are being WASTED while he baby sits a herd of imported animals. Personally, I am damn tired of crucial manpower and resources being diverted from their intended purposes for the sole benefit of these DAMN ELK and a few "connected" individuals. The KDFWR, with the help and continuing influence of the RMEF, sold the sportsmen of KY a huge bill of goods with their deceitful representations about the elk program and IMHO its time for it to stop even if it means completely abandoning the entire elk project. We can't afford necessary law enforcement or biologists for thousands of sportsmen in dozens of counties, but we can budget $500+K/year for the benefit of 100-1000 lottery winners to hunt an elk. A damn poor trade for the license buying sportsmen of KY!!!
The next 8th District Federation meeting will be on or about July 21st at the Northeastern KY Fish & Game Club in Boyd Co.

[Highbow]

GG, Jason is not the only employee being used to protect this area from elk. Our tech, Rusty Hamilton has been doing a lot of time at the golf course too.
The way I see it a decision needs to be made to either leave them alone or quit wasting so much money on just a few elk. Several of the elk have already been relocated but taken near the VA line , and we all know they are shot on sight when they cross into VA.

[WBBP]

Grouseguy:

Sorry to hear about the loss of manpower in your District.

Respectfully, I disagree with your tactics toward the Elk Program and the Deaprtment. Instead of ranting on and on about the diversion of resources from other Programs to the Elk Program and also taking a slap at supposed "connected individuals", did you ever consider contacting Dr. Gassett directly to discuss this recent issue and see how it can be resolved? I just don't see the need to rush and "personally" bash the Elk Program and the Department, especially when you are in the middle of giving the highlights of the 8th District LKS meeting. You have explained to me in the past what your issues are with the Department-point taken. It is a new day with more changes comming, why not try a more civil approach to problem solving?

Nothing in life is perfect, but public tirades trying to discredit the REMF and KDFWR as being decitful in past presentations is a waste of time and will not change a thing.

The Elk Program is here to stay and is a huge success. I will be the first to admit that I was suspicious at first, but over time I have come to understand the Program better and support it. I don't agree with everything the Department does, but I like most of it and am working to change the things I don't like, but I won't resort to insulting the Department in public. I think that in the near future, we will look back on the elk re-introduction like we do the turkey re-intrduction now. I have faith in the Department and the REMF on this. On a final note, I think that the Elk Program is a net increase for the State when you count the donations from the REMF, so why distort the financial issues? Elkguy can probably elaborate more on the financial issue.

K

[grouseguy]

WBBP,

In retrospect, I should not have interjected my personal opinion in a report about the 8th District Federation meeting. Other than that, I find very little else in your post that I can agree with.

We have met, although we've not had the opportunity to really get acquainted, and I believe you to be an honorable man. However, we are likely completely different personalities, and I will conduct myself based on the experience, knowledge and instincts that I've developed in numerous battles on behalf of the sportsmen and/or the resource.

You are advocating a style of interaction based on your experience and personality that you feel comfortable with, and believe to be effective...I am doing the same...we simply have different approaches. In all honesty, if your style were truly effective, we wouldn't be having this exchange now, because that was exactly my original method of operation.

It IS a new day and changes are coming, but they're not here yet, and until "the music stops and all the chairs are filled", we as sportsmen don't really know if we've "traded up" or simply "swapped nickels", so I will continue with the style that I believe has been most effective in bringing about these potential changes.

We are on the same team, working toward the same destination, we are just using a different road map.

In closing, I will only take issue with one statement that I believe to be incorrect (the rest is just an honest difference of opinions):

On a final note, I think that the Elk Program is a net increase for the State when you count the donations from the REMF, so why distort the financial issues?

Based on the budetary information that I've reviewed, although admittedly I've not seen it all for every year, I don't think the facts will back up your statement, but given the amount of propoganda that's been spread, I could easily see where you and others come to this conclusion.

Purely conjecture at this point, but I believe there will come a day when we will all regret participating in this program, and that it will negatively impact other sporting opportunities in eastern KY.

You may not believe me, but I really hope I'm wrong about the elk program. IMHO, a lot will depend on the outcome of those "changes" that we spoke of earlier.

[WBBP]

Grouseguy:

Thanks for your response.

K

[Xtreme]

Kaleb is indeed an honorable man. At least that is/was my first impression of him. However I fear we will loathe the day we got into the elk program for obvious reasons affore mentioned in past posts.

I, like you GG HONESTLY hope I am wrong.:eek:

[WBBP]

Extreme, Thanks for the kind words...........I think.... :)

[Xtreme]

Extreme, Thanks for the kind words...........I think.... :)

They were meant as kind words:D

[Multidigits]

I might be totally wrong on all this so bare with me. if i'm wrong, I don't mind you correcting me with the facts. what I have on the subject is strictly second hand, and you know how that goes.

From what I'm told, the problem up there seems to be a trmporary one, and one where the Dept. can't win. No matter what they do on this one, it'll turn out wrong. I assume we're talking about the golf course deal?

Anyway, it seems that there's a solution that only thinking outside of the box will fix. Instead of buying more hunting property in those areas, why not just buy or build golf courses? Seems elk love them and we already know that deer and geese do too. Plus, most make money int eh off seasons and will generate cash to finance other projects. Golfing tales off in the winter and drops to nothing on bad weather days. Those days can be filled by hunters and the elk problem disappears. the glofers get to golf, the hunters get to hunt. Have the RMEF buy the courses and it's no money form those of us that will never get to hunt these elk. Win-win situation, plus selfsustaining financially.

[schuyler olt]

A golf course is hugely expensive to build. For example, each green takes about $100,000. A decent but not fantastic 18 hole golf course takes about $35,000 per month to maintain, including utilities. That doesn't include salaries, golf carts or insurance. To make matters worse, September and October are prime golfing months, and things really don't tail off until around Thanksgiving, and Thanksgiving weekend is huge if the weather is good. So the period it would be used for elk hunting would be prime revenue producing months for golf, and you get into a real catch 22 financially.

Of course, you could use it for golf during the day and spotlight the elk at night..... JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!

It is amazing how many deer and turkeys we see on golf courses here in Jefferson County. There's usually a pretty strong flock of Wild Turkey in the 19th hole, too.

[turk2di]

19th hole?????? No doubt there is wild turkey there;)

[schuyler olt]

Man, the more I think about this...

We could camoclad the carts in Realtree and Mossy Oak. The caddies could double as gunbearers. The golf pro could also serve as the guide (with appropriate license, of course). We could draw for holes like you draw for areas at Fort Knox. Rifles shoot from the gold tees, muzzys from the white, verticals from the blue and x-bows from the ladies' tees (I"M TEASING HERE--DON'T GO BALLISTIC). Dropping the elk on the greens is prohibited unless your gunbearer first pulls the flagstick, and dropping one in a water hazard is a two-tag penalty. Only soft spike hunting boots are allowed, and carts must stay on the paths during inclement weather.

Anyone talking or operating a camera during the shot will be escorted from the course.

[turk2di]

And any commentary must be shouted;)

[skin_dog1]

verticals from the blue and x-bows from the ladies' tees (I"M TEASING HERE--DON'T GO BALLISTIC). I love it!

[gwhilikerz]

Man, the more I think about this...

We could camoclad the carts in Realtree and Mossy Oak. The caddies could double as gunbearers. The golf pro could also serve as the guide (with appropriate license, of course). We could draw for holes like you draw for areas at Fort Knox. Rifles shoot from the gold tees, muzzys from the white, verticals from the blue and x-bows from the ladies' tees (I"M TEASING HERE--DON'T GO BALLISTIC). Dropping the elk on the greens is prohibited unless your gunbearer first pulls the flagstick, and dropping one in a water hazard is a two-tag penalty. Only soft spike hunting boots are allowed, and carts must stay on the paths during inclement weather.

Anyone talking or operating a camera during the shot will be escorted from the course.
I won't go ballistic, just file it away in the files for future use:)

[schuyler olt]

Tom,

Please don't think I'm discrediting your idea. I'm just trying to have a little fun here. We all need to lighten up and smile about all this from time to time.

I forgot another rule. Anyone drawn for an elk tag who holds a guide license is considered a professional. Therefore, that person must shoot from the gold tees regardless of weapon. That person, if a man, must wear long trousers at all times. Women professionals may wear short pants and shoot from the tee designated for that season, regardless of weapon. All professionals must walk the course, and their gunbearers may not carry more than 14 guns at one time. Carts may not be used. Xbows and vertical bowers may not carry more than 14 arrows, only one of which may be a blunt tip.

Professionals are responsible for accurately completing their tags at the conclusion of the hunt.

[schuyler olt]

GW--Do you know what happens when a golfer hits a tee shot that doesn't get to the ladies' tee? The same would apply to vertical archers, so don't think I'm favoring them. :-)

[Willie]

And what pray tell would you call this event?

You have to have a name so that the agents can put it on the contracts.

[schuyler olt]

Let me think on that tonight, Willie.

[Highbow]

Sky, what will the penalty be if I hit a elk with a golf ball and knock it out. Do you consider it a moveable hazard or clean and place? I'm going to play up there next week if the weather improves.

[turk2di]

Sky, what will the penalty be if I hit a elk with a golf ball and knock it out. Do you consider it a moveable hazard or clean and place? I'm going to play up there next week if the weather improves.
Wapiti upside the head?

[Multidigits]

My guess is that the anti-crossbow folks forgot about elk. I'd say just carrying a x-bow on the golf course would be enough to get all the problem elk to leave, then Jason could go back home to his regular duties. And 14 arrows for a x-bower would be a penalty. It's so deadly, you only need one.

[schuyler olt]

Maybe we should call it the Barney Pro-Am. You know--"I love you, you love me, we're a happy fam-i-ly."

I really hadn't thought about whacking a deer, turkey or elk with a golf ball during the golf side of things. However, after reviewing the regs, I don't think a golf ball meets the definition of a broadhead, and it's certainly greater in diameter than a ten guage, so it probably would be illegal, even if the golfer was properly licensed and tagged and met the hunter orange requirements.

At the hearing on the 22d, the Webster's definition of a crossbow was read into the record. That definition included describing it as capable of throwing a bullet. While it didn't say anything about golf balls, logic would suggest that a xbow could throw a golf ball, so perhaps this could be addressed through a reg change. After all, it would certainly enhance opportunities.

Getting the USGA to approve a xbow as a legal golf club might be dicey, though. That would certainly complicate using one during a PGA event or the U.S. Open.

[schuyler olt]

My guess is that the anti-crossbow folks forgot about elk. I'd say just carrying a x-bow on the golf course would be enough to get all the problem elk to leave, then Jason could go back home to his regular duties. And 14 arrows for a x-bower would be a penalty. It's so deadly, you only need one.

Xbows have always been legal for elk in Kentucky.

[Multidigits]

Your kidding, and we still have some? :D

[Willie]

...............
Getting the USGA to approve a xbow as a legal golf club might be dicey, though. That would certainly complicate using one during a PGA event or the U.S. Open.

A crossbow doesn't take a whole lot of modification (just add a pocket to the string) to become a "stone bow" capable of launching stones and maybe golfballs...

http://www.virtualworldlets.net/Resources/Hosted/Resource.php?Name=AboutStonebow

[Birdman]

From reading this post I can tell that most of you boys are not from Eastern Ky. We're way a head of you. Blinds, dig outs, leaning trees and other natural settings around our courses are going quickly. Hunters from out of zone if drawn will be required to pay both a course fee and carry a valid hunting license. Anyone playing the back nine on Paintsville must obtain a users permit for crossing the swinging bridge (both ways). Check regs. for other courses within the zone. :D :D :D

It's about time the jokes started. ;) You guys have a good weekend.

[Highbow]

The swinging bridge would slow down some of these guys, but it might be good for a carp shoot over the river, I would sure like to see someone hit a big ole carp from the bridge and then hang on for a ride of a lifetime.