Who Is Kidding Who

[joekat46]

Does anyone really think if this crossbow decision is reversed now it will ever seriously be brought up again? NO - it will be talked about, looked at, studied, referred to committee, looked at, talked about some more, studied again, referred to another committee, given to a group from some local college to study some more, talked about, etc. etc. etc.

It is now or never so everybody on both sides give it your best shot. It is the Alamo.

A big "boo" to some of you that for whatever reason have decided to first "test the wind" before committing. I'm thinking of one guy in particular that may or may not have an ulterior political motive for his opposition. Really a big disappointment. I'm betting there is some "inside" info in Frankfort that this is now a dead issue.

[schuyler olt]

Joe, I for one am almost dead certain it will.

[Old Oak]

SKY
Sent you a PM

[turk2di]

I'd say the x-bow is a done deal. I got no problem with them on deer, tho i have stated my fears regarding turkey impact. Hopefully it will be of no consequence, only time will tell. My main gripe about the whole thing is lack of state-wide canvas of opinions and concerns b4 makin the decision.

[kycowboy]

Who Really Cares Why Don't You People Quit Crying Booooooo

[aceoky]

IT PASSED!

BTW booo(upon request)......

No reason to "cry over spilled(anything)"

IF it IS a problem, THEN state a case, unless that's happened.......well, boooo(not me)

Again, I have "no dog" in this fight, but since it passed, I'll figure, better minds than mine(or yours for that matter), have a good reason for passing it, and leave it at that , ............

However IF it turns out to be a "mistake" , then , and IMHO only then is there any reason to try to change, "what isn't broken"???????

[FLIPFLOP]

I'll tell yall who is kiiding who. YALLS DADDY(MULTI) IS KIDDING YALL


Why the change multi? maybe you wanted x-bows legal so you could hunt with them legal for a change. I guess in the end all will know why you had a sudden chage on this issue wont they?

UNTILL THE REAL TRUTH COMES OUT BY YOU HERE IS SOME TRUTH WE ALL KNOW AND IT'S IN BLACK AND WHITE.


POST MADE THIS WEEK

Because they can. the turkey flock is expanding . the deer herd has reached nearly a million animals. The overall number of hunters are dropping. More oppurtunity, for no harm to the resource. That's one of the missions of the KYDFWR and the Commission to do just that.



A POST YOU MADE ON 11-02-04


Except for a few Zone 1 counties, there doesn't appear to be a run away over population of deer anywhere that I'm aware of. That doesn't lend it's self to "additional oppurtunity" at this time.

Beyond that, until there appears to be a need or an organized group in favor of adding x-bows as an additional tool, then it probably won't happen.

Trying to say that it is a bow won't work. Hasn't ever worked, and won't ever work. Even the x-bow manufacturers don't even claim that. It's a stand alone weapon, and should be granted additional days based on need. At this time, there isn't a need.

A POST YOU MADE IN 2002

This will probably be passed today(CROSSBOWS). But, as happened with the regulations they passed concerning the Pineer Weapons Area, that we might be able to get it reversed. I can't imagine many in the Dept. as in favor of this. Can you picture the enforcement people trying to decide if a guys hunting turkey or trying to poach a deer(EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SAYING). Besides that, this will have to effect the fall turkey kill(WOW SAY IT AINT SO).

In the future, we need representation at ever meeting held concerning changes of the present game and fish laws. We need time to decide our position and for a strategy to promote that stance.(AHH YES TIME, TIME IS A MUST)

[kybowhunter1963]

The lurkers on this site notice this kind of flip flopping and have been doing so for a long time.

I for one have been fortunate and all the places I hunt have expanding deer herds and great opportunities. When I post that on here.....I am blasted by some saying that the deer numbers are inflated with telecheck being a fraud....that the deer herd is in jeopardy of over-harvest. Then comes along the crossbow...and all sudden the resource will not be harmed....more hunters and more pressure are a great thing....

I wish they would decide which it is.........

[shogan]

Hum,

I have suggested unlimited does in certain areas is a little aggresive and might be having a negative impact on herd size in my opinion but the department probably wants smaller herds in the areas close to metro areas.

But with that said having another weapon on the plate does not change the harvest substantially. Does it bring more people into bow season? sure it might? But I still think most hunters have their number in mind as to how many they want to take. And weather they take it early with a bow or late with a gun it wont make much difference.

Now if more folks are getting out and hunting more days ahh haa then we have more tourism dollars. ""THATS GOOD FOR KENTUCKY"".

Think you all missed the real agenda and focused on some bull "over harvesting theory" ((Which has more to do with limit not weapon)).

[creekdawgg]

Thats funny, shogun did you read the part of "The overall number of hunters are dropping. More oppurtunity, for no harm to the resource" Then the change of heart below that. Oh well at this point it's the same old stuff.

[Multidigits]

The lurkers on this site notice this kind of flip flopping and have been doing so for a long time.

I for one have been fortunate and all the places I hunt have expanding deer herds and great opportunities. When I post that on here.....I am blasted by some saying that the deer numbers are inflated with telecheck being a fraud....that the deer herd is in jeopardy of over-harvest. Then comes along the crossbow...and all sudden the resource will not be harmed....more hunters and more pressure are a great thing....

I wish they would decide which it is.........

Let's see Glenn. you've posted many times about the deer population and those that don't have them needing to get over it. Here's a real means to rid the urban areas of a few of those deer, and now we're the villians for supporting it. If we can get real population models based on populations of huntable deer, then those of us in zone's away from teh ones will be much better off. So, nothing i've said or done is a flop. i'm well aware of what I've posted in the past on deer populations. Funny how those that argued against it many times now are going the other way and saying we can't handle the added pressure. With the crossbow, the urban area hunting success will stay the same, but overall deer harvest in these problem areas will increase. Most likely, thats why a lot of you are against the crossbow--selfishness and don't want your honey holes shared.

[Multidigits]

Thats funny, shogun did you read the part of "The overall number of hunters are dropping. More oppurtunity, for no harm to the resource" Then the change of heart below that. Oh well at this point it's the same old stuff.

In 2002 Roy Grimes was the WD inthe KYDFWR. Crossbow didn't have a chance then and couldn't even get on the agenda because of him. Times change, so do job assignments and people.

Dave--explain how this is bad for the whole: "The overall number of hunters are dropping. More oppurtunity, for no harm to the resource"

I'm waiting for your answer???

[creekdawgg]

You got almost 8,000 post and 90% are negative BS. How does that help? When the crossbow issue first started up this year, I got involved to try and Understand the issue and you turned me into a future elite bowhunter. Thanks I wont look back. In a time when sportsman should come together and enjoy hunting you are trying to sneak issues in for some unknown reason.Thats fine do what you gotta do to earn a buck. No problem here but dont try to bring personal issues into play. Just say what you will of something you are for and I will say something for what I am for and we can leave it at that. Im not on here to attack anyone Im on here to learn more about the sport I love and enjoy. Sometimes I think you are on here because you have PMS and nothing better to do.

It looks like in 2002 you were agaisnt crossbows, and again in 2003, and again in 2004, now in 05 you are for it. How is that good for your cause? Remember john kerry lost cause of that stuff. The biggest thing that jumps out at me is

"Except for a few Zone 1 counties, there doesn't appear to be a run away over population of deer anywhere that I'm aware of. That doesn't lend it's self to "additional oppurtunity" at this time."

That was 4 months ago. Does "additional oppurtunity" not mean crossbow?


Im not waiting for your anwser as I got shit to do today.

[gwhilikerz]

Yep I can tell you "who is kidding who". I see it in here all the time. Some guy gets on here and types up what he thinks is a very good arguement against crossbows. Then when someone shows where he is wrong in his assumption and the stats show it, he gets his back up. Then after a little pouting he gets a brand new nic so he can come in here and bash that person. He is so smart that he makes a few spelling "mistakes" so it won't be obvious who he really is. Then, sometime after he posts with his new nic, he will come back with his original or another nic and agree with what the poster (himself) had to say. Guys it would take a complete idiot not to recognize your thought process and how you write down what you think. That doesn't change all that much when you change nics (unless you are skitzo). Why don't you give it a rest!

[creekdawgg]

Man you are a genius GW. Did you come up with that all on your own?

So now since you think im wrong in my assumption, and according to your theory I should come back on here and change my nic to gwhilikerz-is-a-dumb-ass and then blast you, why do that when I can tell you, you are a dumbass now. that way I dont have to waist more time.

I didnt blast multi I said i thought what was posted to be funny and then he came running thinking I was getting into his case and I wasnt. Im so tried of reading your post atleast multi is somewhat entertaining but you are just a grumpy ass.

Was your name metioned anywhere in my post?

[Multidigits]

You got almost 8,000 post and 90% are negative BS. How does that help? When the crossbow issue first started up this year, I got involved to try and Understand the issue and you turned me into a future elite bowhunter. Thanks I wont look back. In a time when sportsman should come together and enjoy hunting you are trying to sneak issues in for some unknown reason.Thats fine do what you gotta do to earn a buck. No problem here but dont try to bring personal issues into play. Just say what you will of something you are for and I will say something for what I am for and we can leave it at that. Im not on here to attack anyone Im on here to learn more about the sport I love and enjoy. Sometimes I think you are on here because you have PMS and nothing better to do.

It looks like in 2002 you were agaisnt crossbows, and again in 2003, and again in 2004, now in 05 you are for it. How is that good for your cause? Remember john kerry lost cause of that stuff. The biggest thing that jumps out at me is

"Except for a few Zone 1 counties, there doesn't appear to be a run away over population of deer anywhere that I'm aware of. That doesn't lend it's self to "additional oppurtunity" at this time."

That was 4 months ago. Does "additional oppurtunity" not mean crossbow?


Im not waiting for your anwser as I got shit to do today.

I don't have a clue how many posts I have, and in your opinion they are BS. Not everyone has that same opinion, and I've sent many good tips and info along with those posts. I think one or two of them lead you to a spot to hunt this coming year. Was that BS for you?

I don't care if your an elite bowhunter or not. Who cares what you hunt with? I sure as hell don't. Why does it make a difference? It don't. It's not a wonderful feat to kill a fricken deer with a bow. Millions do it every year. To act like you've done some grand is crap. It's time to get over it, and get on wiht managing the herd. Hunt to kill deer when you need to and let them go when they need to be let go. Hunt with what you want to hunt with. no one should care what someone else chooses to hunt with.

My past history with the crossbow fight has been well doucumented. You can take some out-of-context posts and think they mean something they don't. Who cares. I know where I should then and where I stand now. BTW-you can ask Walt where I stood on crossbows in 2002. He's still pouting about it.

As for the deer herd. I was going to wait until the deer herd reached 1 million before starting the crossbow thing. Well, it's close to 1 million, and someone beat me to the punch. Doesn't matter, this year or the next, it's still the same issues.

The deer herd is expanding in all the areas I hunt. Turkeys are nearly overrunning me on one of my spots. For anyone to say the resources can't handle the slight amount of pressure added by crossbow just doesn't get out much.

[creekdawgg]

It's not a wonderful feat to kill a fricken deer with a bow. Millions do it every year. To act like you've done some grand is crap. It's time to get over it, and get on wiht managing the herd..

I think it is a wonderful feat to kill a deer with a bow, Seems you lack respesct for what you are fighting so hard for but what you said is right time to get over it, and get on wiht managing the herd. Then shut your negative mouth long enough to put some positive posts onto the web and quit worrying about everyone else. I dont care what you hunt with thats not the issue here, you can hunt with your keyboard for all I care. Be posititve and make a difference instead of trying to make a differnce and being negative.

[Multidigits]

I think it is a wonderful feat to kill a deer with a bow, Seems you lack respesct for what you are fighting so hard for but what you said is right time to get over it, and get on wiht managing the herd. Then shut your negative mouth long enough to put some positive posts onto the web and quit worrying about everyone else. I dont care what you hunt with thats not the issue here, you can hunt with your keyboard for all I care. Be posititve and make a difference instead of trying to make a differnce and being negative.

It's a wonderful thing to kill a deer with any weapon. No lack of respect here, maybe on your end if that person happened to use a weapon you don't approve of. Nothing special about a bow, it's just another choice. Your not above those that don't use a bow for what ever reason. As for my posts, mind your own business. You haven't posted a posted post yet, and are only here to incite those like GW that will argue with you. We got this thread specificly for crossbow hunters, you don't even have to be here. I think the record speaks for itself about my positive career in hunting. What have you done for anyone other than yourself???

[Willie]

Sorry, but bowhunting for deer (any deer) is not all that difficult ANYMORE.
It once was when it was all sticks and strings and deer were few and far between.

Times have changed drastically. Equipment is much better and there are LOTS more deer. BTW – that is no slam on traditional equipment as they have gotten better too.

I would say that a bowhunter that is hunting any deer and doesn't get one doesn't have a very good spot (highly unlikely with the present population) or flat just doesn't know what he is doing.

Now that difficulty can change IF that bowhunter gets to a point where he is hunting mature bucks then it does become more difficult. BUT - It is the animal being pursued that makes it more difficult, not the equipment being used.

The same thing can be said for the crossbow. It is not difficult at all to hunt and kill a deer, any deer, with a crossbow. It becomes difficult when that crossbower sets his standards as mature bucks. Again, it is the animal being pursued that makes it difficult, not the equipment being used.

Much ado about nothing….

[gwhilikerz]

Man you are a genius GW. Did you come up with that all on your own?

So now since you think im wrong in my assumption, and according to your theory I should come back on here and change my nic to gwhilikerz-is-a-dumb-ass and then blast you, why do that when I can tell you, you are a dumbass now. that way I dont have to waist more time.

I didnt blast multi I said i thought what was posted to be funny and then he came running thinking I was getting into his case and I wasnt. Im so tried of reading your post atleast multi is somewhat entertaining but you are just a grumpy ass.

Was your name metioned anywhere in my post?
creekdawgg I had a lot to say to you but I changed my mind and edited this post. If you will look real close you will see that i was talking to flipflop. But i guess you are right about one thing. I do argue too much. I'll jst leave it at that.

[buckfever]

Gwhili - I've noticed a lot of newcomers myself. Some of these newcomers are intent on insulting others on both sides of the fence. Most of these people are opposed to the exanded crossbow season, and most of the insults have been directed at Multi. I suspect that some of the newcomers in favor of the new crossbow season are probably out of staters who have been enlisted to artificially inflate the level of support for the recent proposals. Most of us can see these newcomers for what they are.

I'm just curious as to who exactly you believe are the new "fawns" making all of these insulting posts? I can't tell myself, so I was wondering if you think it's me?

[joekat46]

Gwhili - I've noticed a lot of newcomers myself. Some of these newcomers are intent on insulting others on both sides of the fence. Most of these people are opposed to the exanded crossbow season, and most of the insults have been directed at Multi. I suspect that some of the newcomers in favor of the new crossbow season are probably out of staters who have been enlisted to artificially inflate the level of support for the recent proposals. Most of us can see these newcomers for what they are.

I'm just curious as to who exactly you believe are the new "fawns" making all of these insulting posts? I can't tell myself, so I was wondering if you think it's me?

"Out of staters enlisted to artificially inflate" - congratulations "buck" you now have the made the most ridiculous paranoid post on this whole topic. We all know you've been around awhile. You don't usually look this silly so maybe some of us did a double take when we saw who is now authoring some of this stuff under you name.

As this continues to heat up until the decision comes from the big meeting I'm sure your position as the holder of the "most paranoid" post will be eclipsed many times over. Don't order any " I'm Most Paranoid" name tags. You will be wasting your money. These next two weeks or so are going to be very interesting.

[buckfever]

"Out of staters enlisted to artificially inflate" - congratulations "buck" you now have the made the most ridiculous paranoid post on this whole topic. We all know you've been around awhile. You don't usually look this silly so maybe we did a double take when we saw who is now authoring some of this stuff under you name.

Joe - I wasn't trying to make a major issue of anything, so there's no reason to start calling me "ridiculous[ly] paranoid" or "looking this silly". I think we're all aware that people from both sides of the fence have jumped on board solely for the purpose of weighing in on the crossbow issue. Unfortunately, a lot of this is negative. I simply noted that a lot of people are signing up to Kyhunting and UCBK who don't live here. For example, although you're a regular, you're from Florida. Here's some other recent KYhunting add-ons that only became members once the crossbow issue heated up. . .
Willie (Indiana)
digger (Ontario, Canada)
Kansas (Ks)
DJH (Minnesota)
A.W. (Ontario, Canada)
Gary L. (Ohio)
Wildwindom (NW Ohio)

It's really not a big deal, and I didn't intend it to be.

[Multidigits]

Gwhili - I've noticed a lot of newcomers myself. Some of these newcomers are intent on insulting others on both sides of the fence. Most of these people are opposed to the exanded crossbow season, and most of the insults have been directed at Multi. I suspect that some of the newcomers in favor of the new crossbow season are probably out of staters who have been enlisted to artificially inflate the level of support for the recent proposals. Most of us can see these newcomers for what they are.

I'm just curious as to who exactly you believe are the new "fawns" making all of these insulting posts? I can't tell myself, so I was wondering if you think it's me?

Your non-acceptance of NR hunters is apparent. Your pal Mr. Bennett would be disappointed in you.

[joekat46]

Buck - The out of staters may see this as an issue that will/has spilled far from Kentucky's borders and intend to become a part of it. The day has long since passed when hunters' actions in one state do not effect rights and privileges in other states.

The Ohio hunters to whom I have mentioned this fight couldn't care less. They know how little actual affect the crossbow has had up there and are secure that their crossbow will remain a legal Ohio weapon. I, however, see an opening for any anti-hunting group that may now see a way to divide and conquer since the first type of hunting that is scheduled for attack is bowhunting.

Sorry you took umbrage to the "paranoid" title but I'm now "calling them as I see them". I suppose we might all think that a year from now we'll all get over this and be "pals" again. I won't. If the crossbow decision is reversed and since I'm pretty much now going to be just hunting LBL I'm already looking at the Tennessee portion of LBL for my future hunting. A TN license is also good over the entire Ft. Campbell area so it will be a push for me. For whatever little good it will do I'll send Gov. Fletcher and the Tourism Commissions from any Kentucky County in which I would have spent money a letter letting them know why my money is being spent elsewhere. For all of those now tripping over their fingers trying to write, "we don't care if you hunt here" take it to the bank - The Tourism groups DO CARE and care a lot.

[buckfever]

To the extent that you want to voice your opinion, I'd suggest that you send your letter to the KDFWR, Gov. Fletcher and the Tourism boards BEFORE the April 22nd meeting. If you wait 'til the decision is made, it might be too late to be heard.

[buckfever]

Your non-acceptance of NR hunters is apparent. Your pal Mr. Bennett would be disappointed in you.

I spoke with Tom on the phone today, and while we don't see eye-to-eye on this issue, I don't think he's "disappointed" with me for any reason.

As for NR hunters, I believe that the KDFWR serves their resident constituents first and foremost. They can't ignore the political reality that many voting Kentuckians are opposed to this, and they certainly haven't based their decision on some notion that the Dept will generate tons of revenue from non-resident hunting license sales. I'd be shocked if a commissioner or someone from the Dept actually said that the crossbow season should be expanded b/c it will bring in NR hunters and generate revenue for the state. That would surely get a lot of attention from the resident hunters who already feel as though they are being ignored.

[Willie]

Here's some other recent KYhunting add-ons that only became members once the crossbow issue heated up. . .
Willie (Indiana)..................

If you will look at my profile you will see I've been a member since ..

Join Date: May 2003

That is hardly "recent.." and no I wasn't "enlisted" even back almost TWO YEARS ago..

Apology due, please..

BTW - It is an old ploy if you cant counter what a person says you attack who they are. That very seldom works..

[Multidigits]

I spoke with Tom on the phone today, and while we don't see eye-to-eye on this issue, I don't think he's "disappointed" with me for any reason.

As for NR hunters, I believe that the KDFWR serves their resident constituents first and foremost. They can't ignore the political reality that many voting Kentuckians are opposed to this, and they certainly haven't based their decision on some notion that the Dept will generate tons of revenue from non-resident hunting license sales. I'd be shocked if a commissioner or someone from the Dept actually said that the crossbow season should be expanded b/c it will bring in NR hunters and generate revenue for the state. That would surely get a lot of attention from the resident hunters who already feel as though they are being ignored.

You might be shocked, Don't know, don't care really. But if you think that license sales isn't one of the factors in decision, then your dumber than I thought. I'll say that overall license sales, not any particular group has very much importance in keep eveything we enjoy working smoothly. You won't hear anyone single out the NR portion, but you can bet it's just as important.

Being in the Commerce Dept., I'm sure Sec. Host would like to see your comments on where you might travel and why? Not that any deadline is important, because the Sec. has agreed to stay out of this fracas for now. It'll be handled in the normal mode.

[aceoky]

That the Sec is staying out of it!!!

Folks face facts; it's about $$$$ and hunting numbers and opportunities; and there is nothing wrong with that IMHO!

I only hope that the $$$ are used to pay the CO's what they deserve and to hire more(several more I think would be great!!)

As "silly" as it sounds the one constant is change; whether you like it or not; be prepared for it; if it hasn't happened it will do so! Why not be happy for the years that crossbows had less time afield and accept that too has changed????

I'm betting with all of the crossbow sales ; the rules will stay the same for quite some time(maybe a very long time??); sooner or later; it'll be time to "move on", and I think sooner is the better choice???

[joekat46]

To the extent that you want to voice your opinion, I'd suggest that you send your letter to the KDFWR, Gov. Fletcher and the Tourism boards BEFORE the April 22nd meeting. If you wait 'til the decision is made, it might be too late to be heard.

You are correct. Good advice. For any other out of stater that wishes to express an opinion to the various tourism commissions go to the "google" search engine and type in "tourism commission marshall county kentucky". You will be directed to a web site. I'm using Marshall County as an example since they are influenced by out of state dollars and LBL visitors. Almost any county name you substitute should bring up some type of web site or at least an address. I'm going to contact Marshall, McCraken, Trigg, Lyon and Calloway since I would probably send $$ in all of them during a Kentucky LBL hunt. If I end up in TN then the $$ go to the cities of Dover and Clarksville in TN.

[buckfever]

If you will look at my profile you will see I've been a member since ..

Join Date: May 2003

That is hardly "recent.." and no I wasn't "enlisted" even back almost TWO YEARS ago..

Apology due, please..

BTW - It is an old ploy if you cant counter what a person says you attack who they are. That very seldom works..

OK, sorry, but I will note that you made two posts in May 2003 and then none until the dreaded crossbow debacle surfaced about two months ago. Since then, it appears you've been making up for lost time. Lol.

I don't think I was "countering" anything, so I really wasn't "attacking" anyone.

[Willie]

OK, sorry, but I will note that you made two posts in May 2003 and then none until the dreaded crossbow debacle surfaced about two months ago. Since then, it appears you've been making up for lost time. Lol.

I don't think I was "countering" anything, so I really wasn't "attacking" anyone.

I drop about $500+ a year + license to hunt in KY so I guess I can say something in this..

Since I was lied to by bowhunters and bowhunting organizations repeatedly before I took up the crossbow I am paying penance for my stupidity then by straightening out folks that don't know better now.

Most don't listen, like I didn't, and then there are some that do. I find people are getting more open minded about the subject. That is good.

[Multidigits]

Willie's a friend of mine. He posts many helpful facts on this forum and has done the same on several other forums across the region. His facts are true, and can't be easily disputed. He's involved with the DNR in his own state, and in a positive way, not just trying to undermind the hard ecisions that game managers have to make. He's also a member of the United Crossbow Hunters of Kentucky. He hunts in Ky. and has contributed for years. His opinion is valid, and worthy of consideration, the smae as any ones else. In fact, many of his facts have been sent on to those who need to read them. I know for a fact that they have made a difference in this struggle. Thansk for helping s out here, and we appreciate the support. Not all of us have a problem with the NR hunters coming to Ky.

[aceoky]

I drop about $500+ a year + license to hunt in KY so I guess I can say something in this..

Since I was lied to by bowhunters and bowhunting organizations repeatedly before I took up the crossbow I am paying penance for my stupidity then by straightening out folks that don't know better now.

Most don't listen, like I didn't, and then there are some that do. I find people are getting more open minded about the subject. That is good.

Congrats to you sir!

IMHO it takes great courage to type what you did; and "my hat is off to you" for doing so!

You will notice; however our voice didn't go "unheard"; most have decided to go "elsewhere" for their "fun"; which I think is great!

Have you noticed how many "guests" we've had reading this forum???(it's at the bottom of the thread, and each forum as well).... Odd, that suddenly we have so many guest reading ONE forum; don' t you think???

Wonder who they are, and what their purpose is???

I guess facts/data do mean something after all!

Have a great season!
(BTW that's to all, members and "guests" alike!)

:D

[joekat46]

After a quick skim of the last 12 hours of crossbow discussion I'm now convinced more than ever that a "back door" deal HAS been made and the crossbow decision will be reversed and then be relegated to years of continued "discussion" and study. Too many of the usual UBK suspects seem to have faded away. I don't think they have been converted, but only told to now keep a low profile so they don't look like the selfish skunks they really are. Maybe I'm a little paranoid. I hope so. The one thing my nine years in KY showed me was that the back door deal was almost an art form. Please don't let my negative thoughts cause anyone to not keep up the pro xbow pressure. It won't hurt to go down swinging.

[shogan]

They did seem to zip up rather quickly

[Willie]

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a
fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

;)


..

[shogan]

I need to read more twain.

That is a thought I should keep at the front of my mind.

[buckfever]

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a
fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

..



"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish."
Euripides (484 BC - 406 BC)

[SixPack07]

I thought all the crossbow fighting had stopped, but I guess it was just because I wasn't looking in the crossbow section. OK, let's get the sleeves rolled up again.