My UBK View

[LoweBow]

With all due respect I am wondering just what UBK’s official stance on the crossbow issue is. I keep reading very negative posts that it has been made perfectly clear, but I only know of one UBK officer that post’s on this site. That would be me. I feel I have stated the UBK’s views very clearly and in no way have I attacked, slandered, or slung mud at any members of this board or any other user group. I wish I could say the same for all UBK members, but sadly I cannot. At the same time I will not stand by and let a lynch mob throw stones at 400 innocent UBK members because of the actions of 2 or 3 people. This organization is made up of some of the finest and most passionate people I’ve ever had the opportunity to meet. I know that the Dept. knows this or they would not have included UBK in so many major decisions as they have in the past. For those of you who insist on bashing UBK I ask you to look deeply into the mirror and see if you have not started showing traits of the dreaded “elitism” in which you have so branded others. I am not an elitist nor do I feel that I show any of these traits. I personally will take the high road no matter how this turns out. That is a personality trait that cannot be removed by any person, organization, or commission.

That being said.
I really don’t see why people think that standing behind an “equipment issue” is such a bad thing. I believe all will agree that a line must be drawn in the sand somewhere. The regulations are what they are for a reason. An example… My son is 6 and hasn’t taken his first turkey. I’d love to take him in the morning, but he won’t be able to go because he’s not big enough to handle a shotgun. If only he could use his .22 I have great confidence that he could head shoot any tom that stepped inside of 30 yards. Sad side of this is he will not be able to so because of the regulations that are in place. Would it be socially wrong to change the rules to allow the use of rifles? Other states allow them already. Would there be a biological impact? Would my son or my wife who can also not handle a shotgun have the right to scream elitism to those that tell them to stay at the house? The examples could be many. We could “what if” all day long. Many organizations push their equipment use and the rights of that user group. I’m sure the UCBK will do the same. This is not a bad thing nor should it be looked upon as such. I’m sure that along w/ the growing of this organization some “rogue” members will be accumulated. Some members just loose sight of what the ultimate goal is and let their own personel agendas get in the way. I say good luck to you guys and I expect to see you at the NASP cook off in July. That is not a dig and not a joke. I expect someone to be cooking a dish entered in your name.

Leadership is not easy. It is however extremely easy to sit back in a non-active role and throw stones at the leadership of an organization that you know nothing about. I challenge any of you guys that are so committed to the UCBK to step forward and become officers. Become involved to the point of where your family or work suffers. Become involved to where it becomes personel. Then see how you react when someone (internally or externally) tries to tare down something you’ve worked so hard to help build. Until you walk in those shoes you will not understand. More people must get involved w/ the decision-making processes with KDFWR. Without involvement we all must sit back and take what it handed down to us. Do not forget…..It is your money! If you are not involved in the process…..win or loose…..I don’t want to hear you complain if you don’t agree with the outcome. If you don’t agree with the process itself…you still have a right to voice your opinion. Voicing your opinion is the most important point. Become involved in whatever organization you decide. LOKS, NWTF, Trout Unlimited, QU, DU, whatever floats your boat. Don’t get me wrong…everyone needs dues payers, but they’d prefer someone willing to help w/ some of the work. Get involved and I’ll guarantee that you’ll meet some fine sportsmen.

I’m headed to Florida for a week at Disney.
Don't burn the place down while I'm gone.
Later.
Mike Whelan
UBK Vice Prez.

[Multidigits]

Mike, you are an officers, as you say, but some of the others that have shown their ass are also connected to the UBK in an official capacity. Walt can explain how that works because it's the same deal when he was in Cyberhunter's and he couln't handle the separation. Dale and Rick are both Directors, I'd say that is an office holder for sure. I will say that you have lead a good fight all the way, and have shown us the way it should have been handled. The personal attacks started early on by Walt and Ballard, and have continued to this day from both sides. You have taken the high road at each junction. Thanks for that.

I'll go on a limb and say that I'm not an elitist in any way. I love hunting and normally choose the weapon of the season and use them all. I plan to explore the only one left this coming year, the dreaded x-bow.

From that point, I don't agree much with the rest of your post. I think 6 years old is rushing it a bit, but if you wanted to take your son hunting at that age, the crossbow should work fine for him.

Other points you make are true, and relevant to this issue. The large majority of sportsmen won't get involved in the decision making process or any club. It's the selcet few that do the dirty work. I don't see any or many ways to change that. A month after this issue is over, it won't be an issue. The diecrimination needs to stop and we all become sportsmen, not elitist prefectionists. Have fun in Fla.

[gwhilikerz]

LoweBow i don't have a problem with you at all. You make your points very well and with respect to all concerned. However even in your last post you seem to say that if we non-ubk members take issue with those attack dogs that claim to represent ubk values we are a lynch mob. That's a good one, I think I used it in the classified section recently. These foaming at the mouth anti-xbow "members?" of ubk say they represent ubk, then they say they don't. OK which ones are officers, directors or otherwise directly connected with the way ubk moves? I was an officer in a union for nearly 30 yrs. I know that the leadership can sit back and claim "no responsibility" for the actions of some of the membership, while at the same time suggesting to these members what "needs to be done".
If what Dalebow and the others are saying is not in accord with UBK's official stance, then come on here and say what that stance is and where these guys are wrong.

[ez]

this has taken some time and several\many observations for me to make\decide which side of the fence to fall......though i like to bow hunt, gun hunt and not strictly hunt and conform to one manner i am here to welcome ALL crossbow hunters into the fold.......WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF KY HUNTING...............where ALL types are welcome............red, yellow, black, or white..............all precious in my "site".............aim true;and let's go hunting
we have enough to fight against; let alone each other...........i know UBK has done alot for the state of KY and continues to do so.........thanks to them a lot of Kentucky's law for and against would not have been past, but we are looking at ALL hunting in this great state...........not just ARCHERY........
i will help carry the torch but not just for one concept..........ez

[Multidigits]

this has taken some time and several\many observations for me to make\decide which side of the fence to fall......though i like to bow hunt, gun hunt and not strictly hunt and conform to one manner i am here to welcome ALL crossbow hunters into the fold.......WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF KY HUNTING...............where ALL types are welcome............red, yellow, black, or white..............all precious in my "site".............aim true;and let's go hunting
we have enough to fight against; let alone each other...........i know UBK has done alot for the state of KY and continues to do so.........thanks to them a lot of Kentucky's law for and against would not have been past, but we are looking at ALL hunting in this great state...........not just ARCHERY........
i will help carry the torch but not just for one concept..........ez


as Bartle and James would say....thanks for your support!

[Mount-N-Man]

I agree with you Lowebow. I have been a UBK member the past 2 years and a member of the KBA for 15 years. I have kept my mouth shut since all this crossbow stuff started because I am personally against it. I will state the major fact I am against crossbows being legal, I have no problem with some one who has an injury and uses a crossbow during archery because they can no longer draw a bow.

The main reason I am against the crossbow being legal ARCHERY equiptment is because I have heard alot of deer being injured and not recovered by crossbow hunters in Ohio. I in no way am saying that everyone who hunts with a crossbow is not ethical, but have heard people I worked with in the past make comments on taking very unethical shots with crossbows. I live in northern Kentucky and hate to think how many of the unetical Ohio "BOWHUNTERS"will be over here in Kentucky slinging bolts at deer 50 yards or more away. I am not saying every one who hunts with a crossbow hunts this way, but there is a major misconception that crossbows are lethal at alot farther distances than a compound. If anyone doesn't agree that there is an "ETHICS" problem in Ohio, check out how many HUNTERS get bagged each year during their week long shotgun season, God forbid they ever get a rifle season.

[gwhilikerz]

I agree with you Lowebow. I have been a UBK member the past 2 years and a member of the KBA for 15 years. I have kept my mouth shut since all this crossbow stuff started because I am personally against it. I will state the major fact I am against crossbows being legal, I have no problem with some one who has an injury and uses a crossbow during archery because they can no longer draw a bow.

The main reason I am against the crossbow being legal ARCHERY equiptment is because I have heard alot of deer being injured and not recovered by crossbow hunters in Ohio. I in no way am saying that everyone who hunts with a crossbow is not ethical, but have heard people I worked with in the past make comments on taking very unethical shots with crossbows. I live in northern Kentucky and hate to think how many of the unetical Ohio "BOWHUNTERS"will be over here in Kentucky slinging bolts at deer 50 yards or more away. I am not saying every one who hunts with a crossbow hunts this way, but there is a major misconception that crossbows are lethal at alot farther distances than a compound. If anyone doesn't agree that there is an "ETHICS" problem in Ohio, check out how many HUNTERS get bagged each year during their week long shotgun season, God forbid they ever get a rifle season.

So Ohio bowhunters are unethical? No wait that is Ohio xbow hunters, we know a "real bowhunter" would never shoot too far or wound an animal. No wait that is ohio gunhunters. We know that Ky hunters don't need that type of influence and we sure don't need that rumor mill that your buddies seem to run.

[Multidigits]

. The main reason I am against the crossbow being legal ARCHERY equiptment is because I have heard alot of deer being injured and not recovered by crossbow hunters in Ohio. I in no way am saying that everyone who hunts with a crossbow is not ethical, but have heard people I worked with in the past make comments on taking very unethical shots with crossbows. I live in northern Kentucky and hate to think how many of the unetical Ohio "BOWHUNTERS"will be over here in Kentucky slinging bolts at deer 50 yards or more away. I am not saying every one who hunts with a crossbow hunts this way, but there is a major misconception that crossbows are lethal at alot farther distances than a compound. If anyone doesn't agree that there is an "ETHICS" problem in Ohio, check out how many HUNTERS get bagged each year during their week long shotgun season, God forbid they ever get a rifle season.

I'm not going to waste time looking at accident rates in Ohio, because it's not relevant. Neither is the wounding rate. BECAUSE the crossbow hunter and the conventional archer have exactly the same statistics as far as harvest and success rates. Wounded deer would also be the same from each group. As for ranges, in the hands of an experienced hunter, both are about equal, but the crossbow might have a bit of an edge in the 40 to 50 yard ranges. Crossbow hunters don't shoot much farther than that anymore than would long bow users. It's a myth.

[Willie]

CROSSBOW SAFETY

A request to state’s DNRs for crossbow safety information.

I received these responses.

ALABAMA - Have had no accidents that I am aware of in the past involving crossbows.

ARKANSAS – The accidents with crossbows are on a par with compound and recurve bow.

CONNECTICUT - We have never had a safety issue or recorded hunting accident with the crossbow.

IDAHO - I checked with our enforcement bureau and our historical records and there is no record of any safety issues or incidents.

INDIANA - I am not aware of any accidents involving crossbows.

KANSAS - I found no record of a crossbow ever being involved in any kind of hunting accident.

KENTUCKY – We have had one crossbow, hunting incident reported in the known history of the state. A man shot his hunting partner in the neck (non-fatal). The partner was wearing his rattling antlers around his neck and walking through the woods (no orange).

LOUISIANA - Any safety issues that you know of? None at this time.

MINNESOTA - Answer: There is no mandatory reporting for archery accidents so any data we gather is only if we hear about it from an Officer or on the news. We hear even less on crossbow accidents.

MISSOURI - We have had no accidents, of which, we are aware. Hope this helps.


NEBRASKA - There have been no safety issues here per say what we did was require all persons hunting with a crossbow to have completed the firearm hunter ed. course. Prior to 1-1-2002 there were requirements for hunter ed while using a crossbow.

OHIO - Although crossbows are often criticized for being unsafe or ineffective, our records do not indicate there is any significant difference between crossbows and longbows/compounds in most respects.

PENNSYLVANIA - From a safety standpoint, there have been no hunting-related safety incidents reported involving their use.

SOUTH DAKOTA - No accidents or other hits, runs or errors. If crossbows were aircraft, they would not show on radar screens here.

TEXAS - Texas has had no crossbow incidents reported to date.

UTAH - We have had no problems with the use of crossbows in Utah.

VERMONT - We have not had any safety issues with the 2,500 permits OUT.

WISCONSIN - We have experienced no significant safety problems from the users of crossbows.

[grinder]

if we all would post with some common sense and respect like lowebow, we could probably get a lot more don. slam me if you want, but i feel his is the mentality of the UBK by and large. all this name calling, insinuation, lies, accomplish nothing, if anything, it hurts you're own cause, as for multi-d-head, i had to laugh at you're post but really, you should clean it up, we need to hold an image for respectable sportsmen and women, not to mention impressionable youth. clean it up or don't post!

[Willie]

Multi, gwillkerz,willie Please get off this website.

Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?





.

[plowboy]

Good point Grinder, don't know who he is trying to impress with that extremely extensive vocabulary. I'm a little dissappointed that the moderators haven't stepped in already.