Concealed Carry during bow season

[Dalebow]

How can one go about proposing a change in the regulation that one cannot carry a firearm during bow season. Now Iam talking about someone who has passed the state concealed carry course and has the card to prove it. Iam not scared of coyotes or rabid coons, but more and more Iam seeing some people in the public hunting areas that leave ya feeling a little worried, especially if you hunt sometimes alone. If someone is going to use a firearm to shoot game out of season they are probably carrying a gun anyway, but since it's state law for concealed carry seems like it would override a regulation?? Just wondering if it's possible to change and if it has ever been challenged by a concealed carry legal person.

Thanks

[GSP]

You could approach it through the Dept and try getting the Commission to pass it. You could also get a Rep to propose it through a Legislative Bill.
There was a group KC3 (i believe) that was pushing this last year.

[plowboy]

I too would like an answer to this, many times I don't feel just right without my sidearm.

[Multidigits]

There's lots of slob hunters out there that hunt with bows that do not need to be packing firearms. Just think of the number of turkeys that will be shot by these rascals?????

[gwhilikerz]

Dalebow this is something that is definitely needed. It seems we have to give up the right to carry and protect ourselves in order to have the "privilege" of bowhunting. I too have had that uneasy feeling when approached by some folks while bowhunting, you just never know. I've been put up a tree by a couple of "pet" german shepherds, stalked by two coyotes, and had drunken hunters try to buy the deer I had just taken, come upon flashlights and broadhead boxes full of dope. The coyotes were no trouble, just a shout and they were gone. The dogs finally got tired of "treeing" and left. But I think a shot into the ground would have solved the problem a lot earlier. As for drunks, druggies, weirdos, well there are more of them out there every day.

[kevhunter]

Too many methlabs and pot patches for me to be going out into the woods without a sidearm. It is not the four legged creatures that bother me, it is the two legged ones that are hopped up on goofballs. I hunt along the Western ky parkway most of the time and we have a few people that stop, get out and plant their weed. I am not going to run into one of these undesireables with only a bow. I have a carry permit and the only time I carry a gun on my person is when I am hunting or walking in the woods. I was fishing on the Nolin River once and I had my pistol with me. I got checked by a warden and he asked me why I had my pistol. I said I carried it for snakes and bad guys and that was the end of that. He had one too.

[plowboy]

There's lots of slob hunters out there that hunt with bows that do not need to be packing firearms. Just think of the number of turkeys that will be shot by these rascals?????

Hey Multi I ain't likely to be shootin too many turkeys with a snub nose .38. feel like you should have thought this one out a bit more before posting.

[gwhilikerz]

Hey Multi I ain't likely to be shootin too many turkeys with a snub nose .38. feel like you should have thought this one out a bit more before posting.
I think multi was having a little fun on this, being sarcastic.

[GSP]

To expand a bit further on dalebow's original post, the conceal carry permit really is no part of the the whole.
You can not carry concealed or un-concealed. While packing a .45 Colt in plain view in a tied-down, western holster is just a legal to carry as a hammerless Smith in your back pocket with C/C permit, neither can be done while bowhunting.

Again, if you really want to change it, call your Reps. Also, search and find orgs that are already pushing the change and join up.

[wprebeck]

You know, I've always wondered how this regulation (KAR, right?) fits in with the statute allowing peace officers unrestricted carry in the Commonwealth (237.110).

Then, if that's not enough, we have the recently passed LEOSA (aka HR 218) , which I hear has been placed officially into KY law, as well. See http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/05rs/sb142.htm or http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/05rs/sb142/fccr1.doc for further.

Personally, I don't see a problem with bow hunters carrying guns. Actually, I'm for as many law-abiding citizens carrying as possible. If they're gonna poach, they'll do it, no matter the laws pertaining to carrying a firearm during bow season. Not to mention, since season opens in early September, there are still plenty of snakes out there. Some of our brethren in Eastern KY may come across a Timber rattler or two, and I'm sure they'd prefer a pistol to an arrow!

In any case, I don't go anywhere without my gun, and I like to bow hunt. Does that make me a lawbreaker? Probably not, especially due to the recently passed federal law, but that's still a grey area of sorts. I don't really worry much about running into one of you guys from F & W, and getting a hard time, either. The three of you I went to Remington school with last year seemed like good guys...

But, why shouldn't we allow bowhunters to carry during bow season? With bears on the rise in Eastern KY, along with the meth problem that keeps getting worse, it's inevitable that a bow hunter will run into some sort of bad situation. In the woods, unarmed, just ain't the place for that to happen.

Guys, if you all start a movement to ease the restrictions on carrying, let me know. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to have an officer or two on your side, and I'd be happy to help out however I could. Plus, I work with several avid hunters who would do the same, I'm sure. Good luck, and again, if you do get something going, keep me posted on it.

[skin_dog1]

I didn't read all the responses, so I may restate something already said. I'm against any restrictions on personal carry or ownership. Now it is common place to have your rights restricted and folks think nothing of further restricting them. Let me ask a couple of questions. If a guy is gonna illegally shoot a deer or turkey or even harm you, why on earth would a law that restricts him further from carryinng concealed prevent it? Isn't it already illegal to shot a deer or turkey or even a person during archery season? Don't you already have to jump through hoops to obtain the right to carry a concealed weapon? We have so many restrictions already on gun ownership and basically none of them prevent crimes. Fully automatic weapons have been illegal unless properly licensed for decades, yet a couple of thugs were able to hold up a bank in CA using them and fire literally hundreds of rounds during th confrontation. I guess my point is this - We are referring to criminals and bad guys here! The only people that are affected by tighter gun laws are law abiding citizens! They are the ones that will leave the sidearm at home, not johnny law breaker! Johnny is gonna do what ever he wants cause he has no concern of the law, especially a silly misdemenaor like CCDW. In most places that have no concealed carry, even the everyday guy breaks that one. I lived in KS for a few years and there the only people allowed to carry concealed were police officers, military and those involved in hunting and fishing(Don't ask cause I don't know). Did that stop violent crimes, or prevent muggings, or even slow down road rage? NO! Stop restricting my rights and start convicting criminals!

[skin_dog1]

I misunderstood the intitial post. I thought you were against concealed carry during bow season. Sorry.

[Multidigits]

You know, I've always wondered how this regulation (KAR, right?) fits in with the statute allowing peace officers unrestricted carry in the Commonwealth (237.110).

Then, if that's not enough, we have the recently passed LEOSA (aka HR 218) , which I hear has been placed officially into KY law, as well. See http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/05rs/sb142.htm or http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/05rs/sb142/fccr1.doc for further.

Personally, I don't see a problem with bow hunters carrying guns. Actually, I'm for as many law-abiding citizens carrying as possible. If they're gonna poach, they'll do it, no matter the laws pertaining to carrying a firearm during bow season. Not to mention, since season opens in early September, there are still plenty of snakes out there. Some of our brethren in Eastern KY may come across a Timber rattler or two, and I'm sure they'd prefer a pistol to an arrow!

In any case, I don't go anywhere without my gun, and I like to bow hunt. Does that make me a lawbreaker? Probably not, especially due to the recently passed federal law, but that's still a grey area of sorts. I don't really worry much about running into one of you guys from F & W, and getting a hard time, either. The three of you I went to Remington school with last year seemed like good guys...

But, why shouldn't we allow bowhunters to carry during bow season? With bears on the rise in Eastern KY, along with the meth problem that keeps getting worse, it's inevitable that a bow hunter will run into some sort of bad situation. In the woods, unarmed, just ain't the place for that to happen.

Guys, if you all start a movement to ease the restrictions on carrying, let me know. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to have an officer or two on your side, and I'd be happy to help out however I could. Plus, I work with several avid hunters who would do the same, I'm sure. Good luck, and again, if you do get something going, keep me posted on it.



Police officers do have some restrictions on carrying. They can't carry everwhere, such as on Ft. Knox while off duty. Seen a couple asked to leave because of it over the years.

Personally, if your scared to be out, you shouldn't be out. Snakes, chiggers, methheads, potheads, bank robbers, and wh knows what--they've always been there. You might want to ask the CO's how they feel about it?

[Multidigits]

Hey Multi I ain't likely to be shootin too many turkeys with a snub nose .38. feel like you should have thought this one out a bit more before posting.

Yeah, sure. You won't but everyone else will. Just like they don't shoot at them now with rifles and MLs. The temptation is too great for some. That's why the law is in place.

If you change it, it needs to be for part of the season for a few years as a test to see how many turkeys get shot at and wounded. Let's see the data!

[skin_dog1]

Yeah, sure. You won't but everyone else will. Just like they don't shoot at them now with rifles and MLs. The temptation is too great for some. That's why the law is in place.

If you change it, it needs to be for part of the season for a few years as a test to see how many turkeys get shot at and wounded. Let's see the data!

Some of us think the same way about a another issue.

[wprebeck]

Police officers do have some restrictions on carrying. They can't carry everwhere, such as on Ft. Knox while off duty. Seen a couple asked to leave because of it over the years.

Personally, if your scared to be out, you shouldn't be out. Snakes, chiggers, methheads, potheads, bank robbers, and wh knows what--they've always been there. You might want to ask the CO's how they feel about it?



Officers can carry anywhere in the Commonwealth, except for federal restrictions. So, Ft. Knox being an Army post and all, guess why officers are restricted? (Although my agency uses their range quite often)

See KRS 237.110 for more details. Federally restricted areas ("sterile" area inside airport, federal courthouse, military posts, etc) are the only statutory restricted areas for officers who choose to carry off-duty. Jails/prisons do not allow it, per policy, but that's a different area altogether (I happen to work in the state's largest jail, so I'm a more than a bit familiar with the rules inside).

As far as being scared goes, well, I appreciate your attempt at an insult, but it's not gonna work. I deal with the worst thugs in society on a daily basis, and I'm not "scared" to be out. I carry, much like anyone else, for insurance purposes. Of course, to some, that means I'm scared of my own shadow and think that the boogeyman is hiding behind every corner, but it's simply not true. I do wonder, though, if you have insurance on your house? Hmm..."scared" something might happen, like a tornado or fire? Perhaps your worried about a break-in, or vandalism? Well, according to your logic, you shoudn't have insurance, because the chance of YOUR house burning to the ground or being demolished by a tornado isn't that likely, so why have insurance?

Concerning asking the KDFWR officers about being out with methheads, etc...First of all, they have guns (duh!). The issue sidearm is a .45 caliber pistol, but I can't remember which make/model right now. I believe it's inthe Smith & Wesson family, though, but it may be a Sig P220. They also get issued shotguns. Remember my previous post about going to Remington school? Well, it wasn't Remington daycare class, it was armorer's school. You know, where you learn how to take them apart, and fix broken ones? Well, the 3 guys I met in class seemed like nice guys. I'm sure they're not "scared" of tweakers or dopers, but they still carry guns. Wonder why?

As far as working in a hostile environment, I invite you to come on a tour of the jail here in Louisville. See what it's like to be behind the walls with murders, rapists, and people who applauded when LMPD lost an officer. Oh, and we're unarmed inside the security area, too....Most of us don't even have any OC, either, just our fellow officers for backup. And, we regularly walk into dorms, by ourselves, with 20-25 scumbag felons in them, and do things that irritate the inmates....But yeah, I'm "scared" to go out into the woods without my gun....

There's also one other reason I carry (excluding protecting myself and my family): Being a sworn officer, I'm required to take action in certain circumstances. Now, taking action against a violent, armed person would be rather difficult without a firearm of my own, wouldn't it?

The point to all this, is that I seriously doubt turkeys are gonna suffer from people carrying a pistol with them while bowhunting. Those who are gonna poach, already do it. Those who would carry legally in the woods during bow season are much less likely to violate the law. After all, the mere act of shooting a turkey out of season means they could lose their gun (expensive in and of itself), as well as lose their CCW permit. Hmmm...most permit holders I know aren't POS losers who would do something like that. But hey, I'm just for allowing honest people to have an efficient means of protecting themselves, and don't think they should lose their right to do so, simply because of a hunting season.

Last thing -

If you're not scared of an armed tweaker who's been high on meth for a few days, there's something not quite right with you. It's the equivalant of momma bear with cubs: She don't care who/what you are, she's just gonna kill you to protect her little ones. Tweakers think everyone's out to get them, or did you not hear about the 1o year old girl killed in Indiana? Yep, seems a tweaker thought she saw them making more meth, and decided to kill her. Tied her hands behind her back, and pushed her into water, drowning her. Think he might've been a bit paranoid? What if he saw YOU around his lab?

[skin_dog1]

Being a relatively new poster, you've jumped right in with a great post. Thanks for joining us!Officers can carry anywhere in the Commonwealth, except for federal restrictions. So, Ft. Knox being an Army post and all, guess why officers are restricted? (Although my agency uses their range quite often)

See KRS 237.110 for more details. Federally restricted areas ("sterile" area inside airport, federal courthouse, military posts, etc) are the only statutory restricted areas for officers who choose to carry off-duty. Jails/prisons do not allow it, per policy, but that's a different area altogether (I happen to work in the state's largest jail, so I'm a more than a bit familiar with the rules inside).

As far as being scared goes, well, I appreciate your attempt at an insult, but it's not gonna work. I deal with the worst thugs in society on a daily basis, and I'm not "scared" to be out. I carry, much like anyone else, for insurance purposes. Of course, to some, that means I'm scared of my own shadow and think that the boogeyman is hiding behind every corner, but it's simply not true. I do wonder, though, if you have insurance on your house? Hmm..."scared" something might happen, like a tornado or fire? Perhaps your worried about a break-in, or vandalism? Well, according to your logic, you shoudn't have insurance, because the chance of YOUR house burning to the ground or being demolished by a tornado isn't that likely, so why have insurance?

Concerning asking the KDFWR officers about being out with methheads, etc...First of all, they have guns (duh!). The issue sidearm is a .45 caliber pistol, but I can't remember which make/model right now. I believe it's inthe Smith & Wesson family, though, but it may be a Sig P220. They also get issued shotguns. Remember my previous post about going to Remington school? Well, it wasn't Remington daycare class, it was armorer's school. You know, where you learn how to take them apart, and fix broken ones? Well, the 3 guys I met in class seemed like nice guys. I'm sure they're not "scared" of tweakers or dopers, but they still carry guns. Wonder why?

As far as working in a hostile environment, I invite you to come on a tour of the jail here in Louisville. See what it's like to be behind the walls with murders, rapists, and people who applauded when LMPD lost an officer. Oh, and we're unarmed inside the security area, too....Most of us don't even have any OC, either, just our fellow officers for backup. And, we regularly walk into dorms, by ourselves, with 20-25 scumbag felons in them, and do things that irritate the inmates....But yeah, I'm "scared" to go out into the woods without my gun....

There's also one other reason I carry (excluding protecting myself and my family): Being a sworn officer, I'm required to take action in certain circumstances. Now, taking action against a violent, armed person would be rather difficult without a firearm of my own, wouldn't it?

The point to all this, is that I seriously doubt turkeys are gonna suffer from people carrying a pistol with them while bowhunting. Those who are gonna poach, already do it. Those who would carry legally in the woods during bow season are much less likely to violate the law. After all, the mere act of shooting a turkey out of season means they could lose their gun (expensive in and of itself), as well as lose their CCW permit. Hmmm...most permit holders I know aren't POS losers who would do something like that. But hey, I'm just for allowing honest people to have an efficient means of protecting themselves, and don't think they should lose their right to do so, simply because of a hunting season.

Last thing -

If you're not scared of an armed tweaker who's been high on meth for a few days, there's something not quite right with you. It's the equivalant of momma bear with cubs: She don't care who/what you are, she's just gonna kill you to protect her little ones. Tweakers think everyone's out to get them, or did you not hear about the 1o year old girl killed in Indiana? Yep, seems a tweaker thought she saw them making more meth, and decided to kill her. Tied her hands behind her back, and pushed her into water, drowning her. Think he might've been a bit paranoid? What if he saw YOU around his lab?

[wprebeck]

Thank you, skindog.

I've been lurking here for quite some time....I just soak up the info on here, and try to remember it when I'm out in the field. It must be working, because I got a decent buck last year, hehe.

Concerning the topic at hand, though:
I'm all for people carrying guns. I got my permit as soon as I turned 21 (which was the first year for KY's CCW system), and have had it ever since. Matter of fact, I need to renew it. I just got my notice from KSP last week. Funny thing is, I don't need it anymore. Being an officer, I can carry anywhere in the state, so I just kept it for traveling to other states (Indiana is a hot 10-15 minute drive). But, now with the new federal law, I can carry anywhere in the country, with little in the way of restrictions. I'd like to see that extended to civilians, as well, but I think it'll take some work, since the officer version took 10 years of hard lobbying from law enforcement.

In any case, I seriously doubt that there will be a large upsurge of turkeys being killed, just because people would be allowed to carry while bowhunting. Honestly, if a turd is gonna poach, he's already going to be carrying a gun in the first place. Chances are, it's NOT going to be a pistol, if he's after turkey. I just don't think many people are gonna do it...Wouldn't it be easier to throw some turkey loads in your pocket, while your out dove hunting? I mean, all ya gotta do is change the ammo over, and you're set for killing turkey, instead of dove. Not that hard, and much more difficult to detect by law enforcement (never had a F & W guy ask me to show him what ammo I've got in my gun...he's usually more interested in my license(s).)

But, hey, there's always some people who make gun owners/CCW'rs out to be "scared" of things, and want to punish law abiding citizens for the POSSIBLE actions of others. Hey, catch a guy poaching, punish him. I'm all for it. But, if someone's not breaking the law, why punish them? People who wish to carry for self-defense should be allowed to do so, no matter what "season" it is.

One other thing to consider, and I don't know how it would come out....The rules for hunting and fishing are KAR's (Kentucky Administrative Regulations). The specific one for turkey hunting is 301 KAR 2:140, and can be found at http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/kar/301/002/140reg.htm .

The rules for carrying concealed are set down by the KRS (Kentucky Revised Statutes), and as I've mentioned before, the CCW statute is KRS 237.110. It can be found at http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/kar/301/002/140reg.htm . Or, more details about it can be found in KRS 527.020..read it at http://lrc.ky.gov/KRS/527-00/020.PDF .

So, which rule trumps the other rule? 527.020 specifically states that I can carry at all times, at all location, without limitation (I've gone into federal law in my previous post already). So, does the Administrative Regulation carry more weight than the Revised Statute? Point being, a CCW holder can carry anywhere, or at anytime, unless specifically listed in the statute. Again, which is the applicable law?

That's really something for the Attorney General to make a ruling on, in my opinion. KC3 was mentioned earlier in this thread, and I'd bet they'd do a great job of pushing this issue. Personally, the way I'd interpret the law, if you've got a permit, you're good to go, season or not. But, I'm not the one enforcing those particular laws, either, so don't take the above as legal advice. I'm just gun-friendly, and would (validly, I think) choose to enforce the "higher" of the two laws, that being the KRS. But hey, I've been wrong before. Just ask my wife....

[gwhilikerz]

I think multi is just reminding us of how paranoid some of us are over turkeys and deer and what we vicious xbowers will do to the flocks/herds. As far as carrying a pistol, it is in the woods that I feel most comfortable without my weapon:) . But even there is not as safe anymore. I would bet you that guy in Wisconsin who was hidden behind his atv while a deranged "cong" walked toward him to blow him away would have liked to have a gun with him. But, like his buddies, he was unarmed. I seem to recall that this killer confronted another person in the area. This guy was armed and the killer asked for directions out of the area. Kind of tells me something.

[plowboy]

I think multi was having a little fun on this, being sarcastic.

I'm sure he was but I don't know why but I just like to pick on Multi once in while to keep him on his toes. And I don't even know him.

[MD501]

kinda off topic but one of the above post said that officers of the kdfwr were issued remington shotguns that is not true some of the older boating officers were issued 870's when they were a seperate agency but the majority of officers supply their own personal shotguns for duty use. and you would be amazed at the variety they bring to the range. the dept will qualify you with a 223 rifle but do not furnish them to the officers

[Multidigits]

KEEP THE CROSSBOW PI$$ING MATCH OUT OF THIS THREAD.

[kevhunter]

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, so I am taking mine to the woods. I have never heard of anyone being strip searched while being checked for tags or lic. I have never shot any critters with my handgun while bowhunting and I dont plan to, but Im not leaving home without it either.

[kevhunter]

Unless of course I can get into some kind of trouble for my last post. If I can then I am a liar and I dont even own a gun, but I support your right to carry one.

[kycurhunter]

get a small handgun. stick it in your belt. AND GO HUNTING, they aren't going to search you unless you break a law and are going to jail anyway.

my god sometimes people amaze me.

if i feel the need to pack heat....heat will be packed!!

i carry a USMC Ka-bar most of the time while hunting especially at nite while coon hunting. God help em if i draw it.

[plowboy]

Gentlemen, gentlemen this is question thread not a discussion thread.

[gwhilikerz]

Unless of course I can get into some kind of trouble for my last post. If I can then I am a liar and I dont even own a gun, but I support your right to carry one.
LOL kevhunter I'll back up your story but I expect the same "got yer back"

[Dalebow]

Thanks guys for the comments I will talk with some guys in Frankfort and a friend in the House of Reps. I did ask a co what he thought and he said no one had been cited for carrying concealed with permit and that if someone challenged it then it might get changed.

Gwili thanks for the comments as well, I know we have had heated debate on the x-bow thing yet I would like to think we would help one another in the woods or with some meth crazies, I too had been chased by coyotes and was lucky it was gun season and I dispatched 3 of the 7, funny thing when I shot the first one the others didn't run, they came closer. AS far as Multi he does his regular shooting off of the mouth offering no intelligent comments for anything.

I have seen a lot of unsavvy looking people around the Taylorsvill WMA and a lot of stuff going on tetween parked cars lately!

[kdfwr907]

I can not speak for the whole State or District, but as far as I know no one in any of the surrounding counties has been individually cited for CCWD while hunting. I do know of a case where a poacher was cited for a whole bunch of things, and had both his hunting priveleges and CCDW revoked for a year.

However I do know of a couple of people who were advised to put their firearms back in their vehicles. A concealed weapon that you can easily recognize isn't very concealed.

Do I feel that I have checked bow hunters that had guns on them? Without a doubt. Did I look into it? Only if I had reason to suspect a wildlife violation.

The 2nd Am. is a right, Hunting is a privelege.

-----

We carry S&W .45's, and whatever we have for off duty/backup. We are not issued OD/Backup firearms, so we have to buy them ourselves.

Also, we are not "issued" shotguns, we have to scrounge them. You either wait for someone to retire and try to get it, or have a gun that was seized and turned over to the dept retrofitted for duty use.

Why do we carry firearms?
Primarily, while sportsmen are enjoying their days off with their family in the woods, we are working not hunting. We have taken an oath to enforce ALL laws of the Commonwealth. We don't always have the option to just get away, but we have to take them away with us.

While you are looking for a good place away from everyone else, we are looking for a place with people at it. Although the vast majority of the people we interact with are true sportsmen, there are those that are not.

I would say that most of our Officers don't first go to a place where there are no complaints. I usually try to go where I will have the best odds of finding someone doing something wrong, then if I have time, I will try to stop and check in and chat with those that are doing everything right.

[JP]

kdfwr907----thanks.....your answers were what I was looking for before I gave my 2 cents. Every experience I have had with COs and GWs over the years have been pleasant ones.....even in one case I (shame, shame) inadvertantly "moved the carcass" without first writing it on my license. Honest mistake and the GW realized it. (although I think he just felt sorry for me after dragging a deer for a mile uphill!!!) He then helped me load it. My point is...in every instance (other than on WMAs where firearms in general are strictly prohibited) I have been carrying a concelled weapon---with a CCDW license of course. Noone has ever asked me or searched me. But if I was stupid enough to be poaching or trespassing.......then I deserve to get what I get. My pistol is for emergencies--only once ever has it been fired while I was bow hunting---and it was not at game, but a snake. I know not everyone is responsible with the 'right'---thats not just hunters, but everyone. But think about this........Aside from poisonous snakes, Ky is home to oodles of rabid animals---especially rabid skunks (and before long, raccoons too as they merge in from WV).....you can bet if one comes at you, you'll be glad you were packing.

[Dalebow]

kdfwr


Thanks for the response, that what very informative. It is ashamed that you guys don't Have the best in law enforcement equipment especaially since most of the time your out alone dealing with someone or several people armed. That is something we need to fix, do they even buy you guys vests??

Dale

[schuyler olt]

Wprebeck,

As a member of Jefferson County's Metro Corrections Department, you are a police officer with full statewide police powers. Since police officers are technically required to enforce all laws of the state of Kentucky even when off duty, if you came across that tweaker while bow hunting, you would technically be required to take an enforcement action against him. Accordingly, assuming that you were carrying your duty weapon in accordance with department policy (I would check that through your super and command staff) I personally think you have the right to carry.

Before anybody busts my chops on this--I used to oversee Metro Corrections when I was the Chief Administrative Officer of Jefferson County.

[wprebeck]

Yeah, I kinda mentioned the whole "duty to act" thing in one of my posts...

Personally, I prefer to NOT do anything off-duty, unless it absolutely necessary. But, you never know when something may happen, hence the reason I carry. That's why I think everyone who legally can carry, should do so, bow season or not.

[JP]

Yeah, I kinda mentioned the whole "duty to act" thing in one of my posts...

Personally, I prefer to NOT do anything off-duty, unless it absolutely necessary. But, you never know when something may happen, hence the reason I carry. That's why I think everyone who legally can carry, should do so, bow season or not.

good for you....and I agree.

[kevhunter]

LOL kevhunter I'll back up your story but I expect the same "got yer back"
No problem, I dont even like guns....

[Strutter]

I'm all for those with ccdw permits to carry but using a snake as a reason to carry is quite humorous. If you are attacked by a snake, like it could really happen, you probably couldn't hit it with a handgun anyway. If it's just laying there, step around it. You are the one in it's house, it's just defending it.

[JP]

I'm all for those with ccdw permits to carry but using a snake as a reason to carry is quite humorous. If you are attacked by a snake, like it could really happen, you probably couldn't hit it with a handgun anyway. If it's just laying there, step around it. You are the one in it's house, it's just defending it.

They make snake shot (or sometimes called bird shot) shells.....it is kinda like shot gun loads for your pistol....I have a box for my .38 . No sweat hitting a snake with em if you have to.

[Walt K]

Two different things here. No one's asking to hunt game with their CCW handguns, just be allowed to carry for protection. I think all hunters should be allowed to carry protection sidearms, no matter if its duck, turkey, quail or even crossbow season. As one guy posted..the poor suckers in Wisconsin didn't have a chance unarmed against a lunatic. It's a different world today then when we were youngsters.

[kevhunter]

I'm all for those with ccdw permits to carry but using a snake as a reason to carry is quite humorous. If you are attacked by a snake, like it could really happen, you probably couldn't hit it with a handgun anyway. If it's just laying there, step around it. You are the one in it's house, it's just defending it.
Then the snake better have his gun too, or its not going to be fair.

[COUNTRYBOY]

Truth be known, I'd say there are alot of bowhunters on here who carry sidearms during bow season. I too have had close encounters with coyotes and dogs. Last gun season I had five dogs to come charging at me out of some sage brush. Even though it was gun season, my rifle was slung on my shoulder, before I had time to think, I grabbed my Smith & Wesson and let it do the talking. BUT, on wheither or not I carry one during bow season? I don't believe their are many fathers like me who take a young daughter to the wilderness with them who are not gonna carry a gun that can't protect their child with, should or if trouble arises. Man or beast. I think we live in a day and time now where evil is so much greater than it use to be, a man should be able to protect his own when he is away from home.

[Dalebow]

Countryboy


Good point, I know when I take my wife with me to sit in the blind I worry more than when it's just me. I don't know any bowhunter who would use their concealed handgun to shoot a deer. But the two coyotes of the seven I shot a few years ago made me glad I was armed, I too was rifle hunting but didn't have time to unsling the rifle, rack a round and fire, my S&W mountain gun barked first!
I think one should have the right to carry a sidearm and it looks like it might be something we can change with some in F&W agreeing.

Walt as usual thanks for the input, sounds like most people would be for this.

[USFS LEO]

Currently wildlife enforcement officer have the option of citing you or not if they encounter you with a firearm during archery season wheter you have a CCW permit or not. This rule like the prohibition on carrying firearms during raccoon training season is an effort to protect wildlife. Does this deter poachers, probably not but it does make the officers job easier in that when they encounter someone with a firearm it is a violation in and of itself. Now does the officer issue a citation everytime they encounter someone in violation of this rule, in my experience officers try to evaluate the persons intent when decideing to arrest, cite, or warn. While this evaluation can lead to the wrong conclusion it is a part of doing the job. The officer looks at the persons attitude, actions, the situation, previous encounters with that person, and what they have heard about the person from people in the community when making these decisions. For example if the person is cooperative, carrying a 38 snub and has a general reputation in the community as an honest hunter they probably will not cite. However, if the person is uncooperative, carrying a six inch barrelled 22 magnum and has a reputation in the community as being a poacher they probably will. Now is it fair to treat Fred the Family Man and Pete the Poacher differently, some would say no but in real life law enforcement there are few instances of black and white and officers make these types of decisions everyday. Ultimatly there may be a price to pay for being know far and wide as poacher and in the area I work, many of the known poachers have a CCW. It is important to realize though that I know of no officers who are out to cause the honest hunter a problem, just the opposite is true, they are trying to prevent dishonest folks from causing you a problem. I also know of no officers who are trying to take away your right to defend yourself or your family. What I do know though is a bunch of hard working officers who put in long hours trying to protect the fish and wildlife of the Commonwealth for you and the prohibition on carrying firearms during archery season, muzzleloading season and raccoon training season provides a tool to help do that. Finally, in my career which now spans almost 20 years, I have charged people who had a permit to carry a concealed weapon with a firearms violation only twice, in both cases the person had been caught red handed poaching. However, I have encountered dozens of people with a CCW carrying responsably and not issued a citation.

[gwhilikerz]

I think that this is one "rule" that needs to be changed. If ccw is legal in Ky (and it is) then why should it be ruled illegal just so we can go bowhunting? If this rule were changed then you Co's and other Leo's would not have to make those kinds of decisions. my opinion.

[Multidigits]

IT's a prime example of how laws have to be structured for the lawbreaker, not the lawful hunter. The Dept. knows that bowhunters poach deer at a rate as high or higher than the general populus, and that they would use the handgun if allowed to carry it unrestricted. It's that simple. We see other on here saying you can't trust crossbow users. The facts are that crossbow user are just bowhunters and that they will poach at the same rate. We don't want to make it easier, so the law says no handguns. Plus, we've heard from ONE CO on the subject, ask the rest what they think about more people in the woods carrying concealed. I doubt that many would appreciate it. I guess we could cange it for the later part of the season first and see how it works then gather the data for further study? See how it works on trial first before making these drastic changes. Ridicules, you bet.

[USFS LEO]

I don't think bowhunters poach at a higher rate than other hunters. . It has been my experience that while there are unethical bowhunters just as there are unethical everything else, bowhunters usually put more time and effort into their sport than most (notice I said usually not always). It is not bowhunters, muzzleloaders, crossbow or gun hunters that poach, it is poachers that poach. They will poach day or night season or not but I think they do use the bow season as a cover for their unlawful activites. It gives them the first crack at trying to make a illegal deer "legal" and it is easier to explain the deer hair in the truck etc. The no firearms during bow season is a law that was structured to make it a little easier to catch these thieves (poachers are thieves because they are stealing game meant for legal hunters). Plus this law was in effect long before there was a CCW permit. It is a complex problem with no easy answers. If CCW is made legal then why not open carry (after all Kentucky is an open carry state) as you can see there are many options to be explored. As I said before, I understand why you want to carry a firearm while bowhunting, there are a lot of not so nice people out there. But do you carry a firearm everywhere you go, every serious off duty encounter I have had has been "in town" and the situations I am thinking of were in no way work related. What I am saying here is if you don't carry everywhere some folks will argue that that weakens your argument but that is another topic entirely. I know this post is a little confusing but I do completely support a persons right to carry a firearm for self protection. But I also support the wildlife enforcement officers throughout the Commonwealth in their ability to protect the wildlife. I don't know what a workable solution would be.

[plowboy]

I agree usfs leo, I think you covered a lot of ground with your posts. Your comments about situation, attitude etc are, I think, very important. Any one who exhibits a bad attitude in any situation and "looks" for a problem is going to find one. I think that applys to both the sportsman and the leo. I for one have "carried" for some 40 years now (yes I now have a ccw permit) and never had a problem nor been cited. Mostly because, in my opinion, on every occasion in which I have had an encounter with a leo I have respected where he/she is coming from and acknowledge that they have every reason to be suspicious. As a result I always keep both hands in sight and remain calm and respectful.

[JP]

I agree with LEO as well....Its just reality that all leos have to use judgement in almost every situation they run upon. But I will say that IMO, folks that take the time to go thru the class and the fees to get their CCWP are probably more likely to be law abiding citizens when bow season roles around---and less likely poachers. Afterall, if this weren't true, they'd just carry conceled without the permit. At least if CCWpermit holders could pack, you'd know they were trained and responsible weapons owners. Plowboy hit it....when youre legal, and you encounter a leo....you better expect them to be suspicious. Thats ok with me...they should be...afterall, I am too and thats why I CARRY. 9 times outta 10, when they see I'm legal and cooperative....there are no problems.

[Walt K]

IT's a prime example of how laws have to be structured for the lawbreaker, not the lawful hunter. The Dept. knows that bowhunters poach deer at a rate as high or higher than the general populus, and that they would use the handgun if allowed to carry it unrestricted. It's that simple. We see other on here saying you can't trust crossbow users. The facts are that crossbow user are just bowhunters and that they will poach at the same rate. We don't want to make it easier, so the law says no handguns. Plus, we've heard from ONE CO on the subject, ask the rest what they think about more people in the woods carrying concealed. I doubt that many would appreciate it. I guess we could cange it for the later part of the season first and see how it works then gather the data for further study? See how it works on trial first before making these drastic changes. Ridicules, you bet.

Ask David Casey (head LEO) if he believes that. Or ask C.O. Chuck Warren (Hardin Co.), he's been a C.O. forever. Fact is, they'll tell you they have less violations from the bowhunters than any other group. The bowhunters are already putting a hell of a weapon limitation upon themselves to hunt. No doubt there's some sleaseballs out there..always is. But to say the Department says bowhunters poach at a higher rate than the general populace is ridiculous. Just say you personally don't like bowhunters. Or show some data...you seem to like that call.

[Multidigits]

Ask David Casey (head LEO) if he believes that. Or ask C.O. Chuck Warren (Hardin Co.), he's been a C.O. forever. Fact is, they'll tell you they have less violations from the bowhunters than any other group. The bowhunters are already putting a hell of a weapon limitation upon themselves to hunt. No doubt there's some sleaseballs out there..always is. But to say the Department says bowhunters poach at a higher rate than the general populace is ridiculous. Just say you personally don't like bowhunters. Or show some data...you seem to like that call.

It has nothing to do with who i like and who I don't. I'm realistic, not walking around with my eyes closed. And you didn't quote me correctly anyway. the facts are that the bowhunters have more reasons to poach, and they have longer to do it. There's plenty out there shooting extra bucks and not tagging them so that they still have the buck tag when gun comes in. The data is available, from the roadblocks that we did years ago. You can find it if you want. The facts are this intended change isn't wanted by LE or your pal Roy. Others also will not back this change. It's funny watching the debate, and seeing all these attacks by coyotes and dogs. How's the data on those stack up????

[Walt K]

Totally agree with you on the coyotes and dogs, never been scared of either, even unarmed. It's the two-legged vermin I don't trust. I don't think a pistol toten bowhunter, turkey hunter, duck hunter, would shoot game with a side-arm anymore than a fisherman would (he can carry a pistol). I WOULD be skeptical if your sidearm was a 14" Contender in 30-30.. so let's put a restriction on it, 6" barrel or less, that should eliminate a handcannon made to shoot deer. My 3 1/2" barrel .32 Tomcat wouldn't take out a deer and I couldn't hit a turkey..but if it makes me comfortable walking out to my truck alone at night, why not?

[Multidigits]

IF you change the law, restricting to what you can carry wouldn't work. That wouldn't fit. And are you talking about allowing everyone to carry, even if you don't carry concealed?

[gwhilikerz]

Totally agree with you on the coyotes and dogs, never been scared of either, even unarmed. It's the two-legged vermin I don't trust. I don't think a pistol toten bowhunter, turkey hunter, duck hunter, would shoot game with a side-arm anymore than a fisherman would (he can carry a pistol). I WOULD be skeptical if your sidearm was a 14" Contender in 30-30.. so let's put a restriction on it, 6" barrel or less, that should eliminate a handcannon made to shoot deer. My 3 1/2" barrel .32 Tomcat wouldn't take out a deer and I couldn't hit a turkey..but if it makes me comfortable walking out to my truck alone at night, why not?

Walt your Tomcat will take out a deer, in fact it is a legal to hunt deer with one here in KY. (as a side thought, why would you carry a gun that won't take out a deer and expect it to take out a man?) I believe it should be legal for us to carry sidearms while bowhunting. I was thinking about ccw but I can't see how you could have that and not open carry as well. I guess I am kind of perplexed by this. I don't look at things like this would just be another poaching tool. Poachers are poachers and they break the law. Law enforcement's job is to catch them. To me that has nothing to do with whether hunters are allowed to carry a pistol while bowhunting. If they break the law then charge them. The woods and fields are no different from downtown in that respect. I guess this is one of those things where we each just have to figure it out for ourselves and be willing to live with our decision.

[wprebeck]

The whole issue comes down to a single point:

Those who will poach, will do so. It doesn't matter if handguns are allowed during bow season or not. Much like other methods of gun control, restricting the carrying of firearms during bow season only affects law-abiding citizens.


I'm not worried so much about having to deal with animals with my pistol, although snakes in September are a problem..Rather, it's people I'm concerned about. Perhaps it because I work with criminals all day long, and realize (unlike some, apparently) that there are people in this world who care nothing for their fellow man, and as such, will kill without any hesistation. Personally, I don't care to be a victim of such a crime, and that's why I carry. Sure, the chance of that happening is slim, but so is harvesting a B & C record every year. Yet, we still go out and look for that buck, don't we?

If you don't want to carry, that's fine. But, don't restrict other people who would do so legally. If one is caught poaching, then one should pay the price. An entire group of people, however, should not have to suffer for the "possible" actions of others. After all, according to that logic, we should ban certain type of rifles, because someone "might" use one in a criminal fashion....Oh wait, California did that already, and a certain person in Congress attempted to introduce a bill that specifically banned ALL ammunition capable of penetrating soft body armor. 30-30 was specifically mentioned in that bill. But hey, it's fair, right? I mean, a person MIGHT misuse one of those guns, so let's ban them all. Just like someone MIGHT use a pistol they carry for self defense to poach a deer. So let's ban all guns during bow season....makes sense to me...or not.

[Multidigits]

You both are correct. If we can't use a form of archery gear in the bowhunting season because a few of those users will poach or take an extra deer or turkey, then why is a handgun being considered? Certainly any handgun is deadlier than a crossbow and shouldn't be allowed ina bow only season? See how stupid that sounds? :cool:

[Walt K]

Walt your Tomcat will take out a deer, in fact it is a legal to hunt deer with one here in KY. (as a side thought, why would you carry a gun that won't take out a deer and expect it to take out a man?) I believe it should be legal for us to carry sidearms while bowhunting. I was thinking about ccw but I can't see how you could have that and not open carry as well. I guess I am kind of perplexed by this. I don't look at things like this would just be another poaching tool. Poachers are poachers and they break the law. Law enforcement's job is to catch them. To me that has nothing to do with whether hunters are allowed to carry a pistol while bowhunting. If they break the law then charge them. The woods and fields are no different from downtown in that respect. I guess this is one of those things where we each just have to figure it out for ourselves and be willing to live with our decision.

Man-wise, I'd say the Tomcat at point-blank would be a fight stopper..not a deer taker though..even if it's technically legal as a deer gun...so's a .17 Rem centerfire.. wouldn't want to try to drop a 200lb. buck with one though..I remember well when Ky. went to 'any centerfire', it was simply to clean-up the caliber lanquage for law enforcement. I also feel if they ever considered the sidearm allowance, that it would be for open carry as well. Do I think the Dept. will embrace this? NO WAY. I've had the discussion with Roy G. three years ago. But, I still say it's a rights enfringement. And Tom, you keep trying to drag crossbows into this conversation (your last post) when in the beginning of this thread, you said keep them out....so let's keep them out. Two different things..crossbows in archery ARE to hunt deer and turkeys with. Not what these folks who'd like to see allowance of carrying protection are asking for. This is an interesting topic..and even Gwilli and I have some common bond on this..(imagine that), but like I said...it'll never fly IMO. Even though many other states allow it. I'd like to see the special interest group to get this one through, that be one powerful lobby...the NRA???

[Multidigits]

Man-wise, I'd say the Tomcat at point-blank would be a fight stopper..not a deer taker though..even if it's technically legal as a deer gun...so's a .17 Rem centerfire.. wouldn't want to try to drop a 200lb. buck with one though..I remember well when Ky. went to 'any centerfire', it was simply to clean-up the caliber lanquage for law enforcement. I also feel if they ever considered the sidearm allowance, that it would be for open carry as well. Do I think the Dept. will embrace this? NO WAY. I've had the discussion with Roy G. three years ago. But, I still say it's a rights enfringement. And Tom, you keep trying to drag crossbows into this conversation (your last post) when in the beginning of this thread, you said keep them out....so let's keep them out. Two different things..crossbows in archery ARE to hunt deer and turkeys with. Not what these folks who'd like to see allowance of carrying protection are asking for. This is an interesting topic..and even Gwilli and I have some common bond on this..(imagine that), but like I said...it'll never fly IMO. Even though many other states allow it. I'd like to see the special interest group to get this one through, that be one powerful lobby...the NRA???

Wrong again, on several counts. First, the .17 is deadly on deer when used in the vitals. When P.O. Ackley developed the caliber, it was used on larger animals in Africa and in the west, such as wild horses and burros. It wouldn't be everyone's choice, but it will cleanly kill a deer.

Second, the Dept. made the change as a clean up and to also show that it is pro-oppurtunity. They decided to put more trust into the hunters and their ethics. The caliber choice is largely a matter of ethics and the hunters ability. After all we go to war with a .22 caliber, surely it's big enough to take down a deer?

Next, i never said we need to keep crossbow out of the topic. My posts were removed by the censor because of that dreadful word. The crossbow and this topic are related in more ways than one. The same agruments that you've used and other apply here as well. As for the difference being that the crossbow is a hunting tool, then why bring in all the garbage that goes with it. You know the myths that the crossbow is a poachers tool and such. Here your asking for a tool that isn't allowed, same as us.

As for it being doable, it could be given the right push. I might even help after we win the crossbow deal. Personally, I don't see the need and see more negatives than positives. Do you have a survey to show what the majority want??? :eek:

[Walt K]

KEEP THE CROSSBOW PI$$ING MATCH OUT OF THIS THREAD.

WRONG AGAIN,,,you seem to love to use that phrase..if you'd develop a little couth..and learn to spell opportunity, you wouldn't get so many people up in arms at you.
I know all about P.O. Ackley, I've been a .17 fan forever...I own three of them..including a .17HMR. P.O. was a nut on small calibers and killed stuff with them to see if it would work. While it might do it..you still have to track and find it. I've killed enough with a .17 up to coyotes to know that a 25 grain bullet doesn't leave much of a blood trail. Yeah the 5.56 (.223) does ok for the military, but we're talking a 62 gr. FMJ. (Uncle Sam use to use a 55 gr. until they changed the twist in the M16A2 and found they needed a longer bullet to stabilize.
AND...you've NEVER heard me say the crossbow is a poachers tool. Them boys prefer highpowered rifles with scopes and Q-beams.

[Multidigits]

WRONG AGAIN,,,you seem to love to use that phrase..if you'd develop a little couth..and learn to spell opportunity, you wouldn't get so many people up in arms at you.
I know all about P.O. Ackley, I've been a .17 fan forever...I own three of them..including a .17HMR. P.O. was a nut on small calibers and killed stuff with them to see if it would work. While it might do it..you still have to track and find it. I've killed enough with a .17 up to coyotes to know that a 25 grain bullet doesn't leave much of a blood trail. Yeah the 5.56 (.223) does ok for the military, but we're talking a 62 gr. FMJ. (Uncle Sam use to use a 55 gr. until they changed the twist in the M16A2 and found they needed a longer bullet to stabilize.
AND...you've NEVER heard me say the crossbow is a poachers tool. Them boys prefer highpowered rifles with scopes and Q-beams.

You don't need a blood trail when the animal drops in his tracks. Read the book Book 1 and 2 For shooters) and see how it works. It doesn't kill by hemorrhage.

Not worried about the up-in-arms folks. You failed this week again and I'm holding my own....spelling won't matter either. You should at least be truthful when you call and complain about someone doing something, It might go further??? :D

And not all deer are poached at night. Chuck will verify that for you.

[kevhunter]

Not worried about the up-in-arms folks, really?? I would have thought by your many positive posts on almost every subject that you would be really sensitive to the feelings of others.

[Xtreme]

IT's a prime example of how laws have to be structured for the lawbreaker, not the lawful hunter. The Dept. knows that bowhunters poach deer at a rate as high or higher than the general populus, and that they would use the handgun if allowed to carry it unrestricted. It's that simple. We see other on here saying you can't trust crossbow users. The facts are that crossbow user are just bowhunters and that they will poach at the same rate. We don't want to make it easier, so the law says no handguns. Plus, we've heard from ONE CO on the subject, ask the rest what they think about more people in the woods carrying concealed. I doubt that many would appreciate it. I guess we could cange it for the later part of the season first and see how it works then gather the data for further study? See how it works on trial first before making these drastic changes. Ridicules, you bet.

I can't hit crap with a pistol. I keep one on my nightstand just in case some nut tries to break in while I'm asleep. If some freak does try to break in I have six shots to "spray and pray".

Pistols are a personal protection weapon and I know hundreds of bowhunters who feel the same way.

I practice very diligently with my bow and pray I never need a pistol.:eek:

[CSS archer]

I have a ccw, and no desire to carry while bowhunting. If someone is actually afraid of coyotes then they should consider watching others hunt on the outdoor channel.

The law is good now, bowhunters shouldn't carry guns unless it's gun season. That pistol would be handy when lost and you have to shoot three times to let someone know where you are....

Just my opinion.

Carry pepper spray if you are worried about a "Deliverance" event.

You can't legally carry lead shot while waterfowl hunting, so I guess you can't pack a pistol then either??

[kevhunter]

One farm that I hunt on has a farm that joins it in which an active methlab and two crackheads were caught making the stuff. You can carry your pepper spray for people like that, I think Ill stick with my .45

[wprebeck]

Let me know how that OC works for ya, OK? I've been hit with it, both during the academy, and with backspray during its use in a real-world environment. You can fight through it, as most anyone who's had experience with it knows. Also, since methheads (tweakers) are an issue in the country, I'd like to mention that OC won't have much of an effect on someone who's on a meth high...but hey, if you feel comfortable with it, by all means, use it.

Ever wonder why LE types confront a pistol (deadly force) with another gun (also deadly force), instead of OC? In much the same way that you don't bring a knife to a gunfight, you leave the OC at home for a gunfight as well. Deadly force is met with deadly force, plain and simple.

Final comments, and I'm through with this thread, because it's going absolutely nowhere....

First off, I've got 5 years in a LE position. I'm married to a street cop, and know literally dozens, if not hundreds, of other officers. I feel I'm in a decent enough position to justify my comments. I know, literally firsthand, the evil that men do. I carried a gun for personal protection years before I started in LE, and will ALWAYS carry a gun for the same reason. The jail is full of people who prey on innocent victims, and I don't feel the urge to be defenseless anywhere, anytime. More than likely, I'll never have to use my weapon, be it on or off duty...But, it's there if I need it. I feel that my fellow citizens deserve the same right to protect themselves that I have, as well. After all, it's not just officers who get shot & killed, although LMPD had a vivid reminder of how dangerous things can get recently.

Honest, law-abiding citizens should not have a valid means of self-defense removed from them, simply because they choose to hunt deer with a bow. As I said, this law will only impede the law abiding person from carrying a gun. Poachers already do it, and will continue to do so. Allowing a person to carry a gun in bow season will not suddenly turn a decent man (or woman) into a slobbering beast who cannot help but to shoot Bambi. That's the way things are being portrayed, and I'd like to think that most of us can control ourselves better than that. If not, then one should not be in the woods with ANY type of weapon, let alone a gun.

Like I said, I'm done with the thread. I come to this board to try and gain knowledge from more experienced hunters. I replied in this thread, because I thought that my experience as an officer might carry some weight, but I still see the same slights being used against those of us who would carry a gun for protection. I'll be back to lurking now, and posting every now and then. For those who act to get the law changed, feel free to contact me via PM, and I'll do what I can to help. For those who do nothing but insult and belittle CCW'rs who wish to carry for protection, I just hope you don't ever need that gun during bow season. You may find yourself wishing for a bit more than that Easton XX75 can offer....

[Multidigits]

I have a ccw, and no desire to carry while bowhunting. If someone is actually afraid of coyotes then they should consider watching others hunt on the outdoor channel.

The law is good now, bowhunters shouldn't carry guns unless it's gun season. That pistol would be handy when lost and you have to shoot three times to let someone know where you are....

Just my opinion.

Carry pepper spray if you are worried about a "Deliverance" event.

You can't legally carry lead shot while waterfowl hunting, so I guess you can't pack a pistol then either??

speaking of "Deliverance" act, I believe that most will agree that Bert handled the situation just fine without a handgun.

[Walt K]

Great post wprebeck...agree 100%. As a former soldier who served, I appreciate it when LE shares the same compassion of our 3rd ammendment rights.

[wwarrior]

Has anyone read the book (Full Draw) by Steve Chapman
Its about a similar experience of a bowhunter in the woods. Kind of hated to read it since I mostly hunt alone! It will make you think !!

I agree it is getting dangerous. I accidentally walked into a marijuana crop once it's not a very good feeling !

Good Post wprebeck....

[JTO]

speaking of "Deliverance" act, I believe that most will agree that Bert handled the situation just fine without a handgun.

Deliverence is a movie !!!!!!!!!!! it's fiction!!!!!!!!!!!! Bert didnt do anything but follow a script!!!!!!!!!!!. In real life only an idiot would bring a bow to a gunfight.
It would be equally unwise to bring pepper spray to a violent encounter ( I'm a police officer with 15 years on the job in a major city in Ky who routinely uses pepper spray against combative drug addicts, it's a good tool but not all its cracked up to be).

I agree with WPREBECK and would support concealed carry while bowhunting. I understand the concern of people opposed to concealed carry but you shouldnt punish law abiding citzens because a few slobs may misuse a handgun. Most competent archers can shoot a bow far more accurately than they can a handgun anyway. (Being more accurate does not make a bow a better tactical weapon in a violent encounter only a better hunting weapon)

I think a lot of the people on here that oppose concealed carry while bowhunting mean well ,but are naive and dont understand what dangerous and violent people are out there. Bowhunting is a safe sport and the odds of a violent encounter are very small ;however, when you frequent the out of the way places we hunters do, you can't call 911 and expect help in a timely fashion. You must be able to protect yourself. Wanting the right to carry a handgun for self defense while bowhunting doesnt make you "afraid" as some have implied. It makes you wise and prepared.
If you want to cut down on poaching support our CO's they need better pay and equipment and we need more of them. Do your part by reporting violations when you see or hear about them. This would be more benificial than laws that only affect law abiding citizens.

Just my 2 cents.:)

[BearsBud]

Two different things here. No one's asking to hunt game with their CCW handguns, just be allowed to carry for protection. I think all hunters should be allowed to carry protection sidearms, no matter if its duck, turkey, quail or even crossbow season. As one guy posted..the poor suckers in Wisconsin didn't have a chance unarmed against a lunatic. It's a different world today then when we were youngsters.

This is where I fall into this discussion. I agree whole-heartedly. I always carry a sidearm in the field, whether I am scouting, hunting deer or turkey or even rabbit. Period. I do not have a CC permit but as I understand the law, a weapon strapped on your hip is not concealed. I have never drawn my sidearm to shoot at any game and do not intend to. I feel this is the way it is with all honest hunters. They will follow the rules. Now, the guy that will use that sidearm is the same guy that will use it out of season, at night, or whenever he thinks he can get away with it. It doesn't really matter if it is lawful or not. Those that will use it improperly will do so anyway.

On the subject of the shootings in Wisconsin, if those hunters had been carrying sidearms, the outcome may have been very different.

[Multidigits]

Deliverence is a movie !!!!!!!!!!! it's fiction!!!!!!!!!!!! Bert didnt do anything but follow a script!!!!!!!!!!!. In real life only an idiot would bring a bow to a gunfight.
It would be equally unwise to bring pepper spray to a violent encounter ( I'm a police officer with 15 years on the job in a major city in Ky who routinely uses pepper spray against combative drug addicts, it's a good tool but not all its cracked up to be).

I agree with WPREBECK and would support concealed carry while bowhunting. I understand the concern of people opposed to concealed carry but you shouldnt punish law abiding citzens because a few slobs may misuse a handgun. Most competent archers can shoot a bow far more accurately than they can a handgun anyway. (Being more accurate does not make a bow a better tactical weapon in a violent encounter only a better hunting weapon)

I think a lot of the people on here that oppose concealed carry while bowhunting mean well ,but are naive and dont understand what dangerous and violent people are out there. Bowhunting is a safe sport and the odds of a violent encounter are very small ;however, when you frequent the out of the way places we hunters do, you can't call 911 and expect help in a timely fashion. You must be able to protect yourself. Wanting the right to carry a handgun for self defense while bowhunting doesnt make you "afraid" as some have implied. It makes you wise and prepared.
If you want to cut down on poaching support our CO's they need better pay and equipment and we need more of them. Do your part by reporting violations when you see or hear about them. This would be more benificial than laws that only affect law abiding citizens.

Just my 2 cents.:)

You make some excellant points. First, there are very few violent encounters in the woods while bowhunting. That's subject to change when we arm the populus with concealed weapons. Arguments over stand locations, whose deer is it, ec. will suddenly take a different take. Like you say, if your not having problems now, why create some???

Then you say that archers can shoot better with their bow than they can with a handgun. So is it better to hit what you shoot at, or just shoot??? If what you say is true, the bow is a better weapon.

[JTO]

You make some excellant points. First, there are very few violent encounters in the woods while bowhunting. That's subject to change when we arm the populus with concealed weapons. Arguments over stand locations, whose deer is it, ec. will suddenly take a different take. Like you say, if your not having problems now, why create some???

Then you say that archers can shoot better with their bow than they can with a handgun. So is it better to hit what you shoot at, or just shoot??? If what you say is true, the bow is a better weapon.

There are far more gun hunters in the woods armed with much more formidable weapons during gun season. I dont think we have any problems with gun hunters shooting each other over "treestand" and "who's deer" disputes .

When the Ky concealed carry law went into effect the "more guns =more crime" argument was used by the opponents of the law. The Law has been in effect for sometime and that has proven not to be the case. In fact crime is down.

A bow is a more accurate weapon better for hunting than most self defense type handguns. A hand gun is clearly the better choice for self defence. This is common sense .To shoot a bow accurately you must nock an arrow draw,aim ,anchor. use good form, (good form would go right out the window in a self defense situation.) and release. Then you must repeat the whole process for the second shot. It is also difficult to hit a moving target with a bow. Most self defense situations occurr at short range under stress. Under these circumstances you can be faster and more accurate with a firearm. With a firearm you point and shoot until the threat is gone.
When I was a member of the Bluegrass Sportsmans club the Archery Division use to put it on the Pistol division every year in the competition. However, in a real situation I would have to put my money on the Handgun shooter.
A Bow is more accurate but that is only a small part of the eqation.
Accuracy is more of a factor in a hunting situation than it is in a self defence situation.
To use a fictional movie as an example. If I was in Ned Beatty's situation I would like to be armed with with a handgun( large caliber with lots of rounds in the magazine). If I was in Bert's situation(Long shot from a position off cover) I would prefer to use my bow for the long shot but have a handgun at the ready in case it was needed.
:) :) :)

[kevhunter]

speaking of "Deliverance" act, I believe that most will agree that Bert handled the situation just fine without a handgun.
Yes, and I saw him playing football against some prison guards once and I hear he is trying out for the Steelers.

[JTO]

If your packing most criminals dont want to mess with you anyway. Even a deranged methhead is usually smart enough not to mess with an armed person.
Many situations are avoided just by the presence of a firearm without shots being fired.

:) :) :)

[grinder]

a couple of years ago about a week before bowseason opened i ran across a dope patch on an abandoned farm i was permitted to hunt. i happened to have my .45 auto with me, and was much comforted, even though i still left post haste, and reported to authorities(pistol bad match for rifle, besides, i'm a lover ,not a fighter) if i ever do go back to bowhunt, legal or not, i'll be packin', and not because of coyotes or dogs."better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6 " is sound advice. twice i've been back to check on things, and went prepared for ww3 both times. if there is a possibility of dopers, i think i'll just stay away.if hunting public land you never know what kind of freak you might run into, i hear some will be carrying x-bows ! as far as critters, i can get out of a snakes way quicker than i can pull aim and fire a handgun, besides that most snakes do more good than harm, leave'em be. say "boo" to coyotes, and DON"T SHOOT THE LANDOWNERS DOG! not very conducive to gaining permmission to hunt.

[Multidigits]

There are far more gun hunters in the woods armed with much more formidable weapons during gun season. I dont think we have any problems with gun hunters shooting each other over "treestand" and "who's deer" disputes .

When the Ky concealed carry law went into effect the "more guns =more crime" argument was used by the opponents of the law. The Law has been in effect for sometime and that has proven not to be the case. In fact crime is down.

A bow is a more accurate weapon better for hunting than most self defense type handguns. A hand gun is clearly the better choice for self defence. This is common sense .To shoot a bow accurately you must nock an arrow draw,aim ,anchor. use good form, (good form would go right out the window in a self defense situation.) and release. Then you must repeat the whole process for the second shot. It is also difficult to hit a moving target with a bow. Most self defense situations occurr at short range under stress. Under these circumstances you can be faster and more accurate with a firearm. With a firearm you point and shoot until the threat is gone.
When I was a member of the Bluegrass Sportsmans club the Archery Division use to put it on the Pistol division every year in the competition. However, in a real situation I would have to put my money on the Handgun shooter.
A Bow is more accurate but that is only a small part of the eqation.
Accuracy is more of a factor in a hunting situation than it is in a self defence situation.
To use a fictional movie as an example. If I was in Ned Beatty's situation I would like to be armed with with a handgun( large caliber with lots of rounds in the magazine). If I was in Bert's situation(Long shot from a position off cover) I would prefer to use my bow for the long shot but have a handgun at the ready in case it was needed.
:) :) :)

Wouldn't have been much of a movie plot if they had guns instead of bows. Imagine the gutless hero shooting the hillbilly in the back with a .38 snub nose? Just doesn't fit?

[gwhilikerz]

grinder said: "if hunting public land you never know what kind of freak you might run into, i hear some will be carrying x-bows! "
So now crossbow hunters are also freaks? Man you do more to aid the cause of crossbowers than anyone I can think of. I think we ought to make you a honorary member of UCBK.

[Walt K]

I saw the smiley face on Grinder's post..doesn't that mean he was kidding? I know, I know..touchy subject for all of us. Best to leave it alone. I agree with JTO...thousands of firearm hunters are packing each season, it's not a problem, to say we'll all start shooting each other is simply ridiculous.

[Multidigits]

Regardless of the smiley face, i don't think anyone thinks he was kidding??

Here's the rule, it's part of 301 KAR 2:172. Deer hunting seasons and requirements.


4) Persons hunting deer shall not carry a firearm, except when a firearms deer season is open.

Shouldn't be a big deal to get the one sentence removed from the KAR. I'd want to see opinions of a few KY. CO's before getting behind it though. And I'd want to have the option to carry, not just carry concealed. In other words, just remave the sentence from the rule, and leave it at that.

[BearsBud]

If your packing most criminals dont want to mess with you anyway. Even a deranged methhead is usually smart enough not to mess with an armed person.
Many situations are avoided just by the presence of a firearm without shots being fired.

:) :) :)


As much as I hate to disagree with anyone ;) , I must dispute this opinion. To prove the point, ask a cop how often a doper or even a non-doped criminal will open up even when he knows the cops are there and are armed. The rationale doesn't work with everyone. On the other hand, rational people will not start a fight or a gun fight knowing that they face an armed individual. The crazies will still need to be dealt with. I speak as one who always carries in the woods and always will. It is not a fear of dogs, coyotes, snakes or any other creature besides man. All of the others are fairly predictable. Man is the one that you cannot depend upon to behave in a certain manner. You just never know how one will react in any given situation. As I saw posted by another on this thread, "It is better to be tried by 12 than to be carried by 6".

[buckfever]

Regardless of the smiley face, i don't think anyone thinks he was kidding??

Here's the rule, it's part of 301 KAR 2:172. Deer hunting seasons and requirements.
4) Persons hunting deer shall not carry a firearm, except when a firearms deer season is open.
Shouldn't be a big deal to get the one sentence removed from the KAR. I'd want to see opinions of a few KY. CO's before getting behind it though. And I'd want to have the option to carry, not just carry concealed. In other words, just remave the sentence from the rule, and leave it at that.

No comment on Grinder's post, but I think I agree with Multi on the concealed weapon ban while hunting reg. I don't carry a concealed weapon, but often worry that somebody else I might run into is. I feel that the possibility of a deadly conflict is lessened if civilians aren't armed in the field. Moreover, the purpose of this reg is to prevent poaching of our wildlife resources, and a black/white defined rule allows CO's to enforce wildlife laws consistently without having to evaluate every situation (i.e. is he a poacher or someone who only carries for self-defense). It seems like the CO's would prefer this rule, b/c it means that they are less likely to confront armed civilians. Any time CO's approach armed individuals (especially with firearms), tensions and anxiety escalates on both sides. If people are so concerned about crank addicts that they refuse to travel unarmed, nothing forces them to hunt. People are restricted from carrying guns in many contexts (e.g. schools, courthouses, airports), and I don't feel that this law is particularly onerous.

I'd be interested in understanding how CO's feel about this.

[gwhilikerz]

No comment on Grinder's post, but I think I agree with Multi on the concealed weapon ban while hunting reg. I don't carry a concealed weapon, but often worry that somebody else I might run into is. I feel that the possibility of a deadly conflict is lessened if civilians aren't armed in the field. Moreover, the purpose of this reg is to prevent poaching of our wildlife resources, and a black/white defined rule allows CO's to enforce wildlife laws consistently without having to evaluate every situation (i.e. is he a poacher or someone who only carries for self-defense). It seems like the CO's would prefer this rule, b/c it means that they are less likely to confront armed civilians. Any time CO's approach armed individuals (especially with firearms), tensions and anxiety escalates on both sides. If people are so concerned about crank addicts that they refuse to travel unarmed, nothing forces them to hunt. People are restricted from carrying guns in many contexts (e.g. schools, courthouses, airports), and I don't feel that this law is particularly onerous.

I'd be interested in understanding how CO's feel about this.

Makes sense to me, NOT! I hear it all the time from politicians, some police officers (mostly Chiefs). If it is reasonable to assume that there is less danger if those in the field hunting are not carrying a sidearm (either concealed or open) and it makes the CO feel better( maybe because he does have a gun). We can extend this to the streets and homes as well. If it makes people safer from legally carried handguns then we should make such carry illegal. The cops will feel much safer when they come to your house to investigate the beating death of you or your wife. The truth is that if more honest people carried then crime would go down. It's been proven time and time again. But still the more "enlightened" among us feel so much safer when Joe Citizen isn't packing. I also find it ironic that courthouses, police dept. buildings, etc. are free from these private citizens carrying, while the officers of the court carry concealed if they wish. They can protect themselves but the average citizen is barred from such self protection. I don't know how I got into this discourse and there is nothing I can say that hasn't been said before. So I'll just stop here and wait for the "paranoid, afraid, insane, right wing, etc" accusations that will be hurled my way. Have a nice day:)
btw Multi I think it should be lawful for both concealed and open carry while bowhunting.

[schuyler olt]

GW,

On the courthouse note, we have several thousand come through ours every day, and many of them are not nice people at all. In addition, you'd be surprised how high tensions run among divorcing spouses, crime victims and their families. Throw in a dozen gangbangers or more, a whole passle of dopers, and that makes those metal detectors look mighty good. Even with all of that, America's courthouses are still some of the most dangerous places to work.

To say nothing of the sharks...:-)

[buckfever]

Makes sense to me, NOT! I hear it all the time from politicians, some police officers (mostly Chiefs). If it is reasonable to assume that there is less danger if those in the field hunting are not carrying a sidearm (either concealed or open) and it makes the CO feel better( maybe because he does have a gun). We can extend this to the streets and homes as well. If it makes people safer from legally carried handguns then we should make such carry illegal. The cops will feel much safer when they come to your house to investigate the beating death of you or your wife. The truth is that if more honest people carried then crime would go down. It's been proven time and time again. But still the more "enlightened" among us feel so much safer when Joe Citizen isn't packing. I also find it ironic that courthouses, police dept. buildings, etc. are free from these private citizens carrying, while the officers of the court carry concealed if they wish. They can protect themselves but the average citizen is barred from such self protection. I don't know how I got into this discourse and there is nothing I can say that hasn't been said before. So I'll just stop here and wait for the "paranoid, afraid, insane, right wing, etc" accusations that will be hurled my way. Have a nice day:)
btw Multi I think it should be lawful for both concealed and open carry while bowhunting.


GW - After reading your post and then re-reading my own, I can see that you thought I was arguing that people shouldn't carry firearms simply b/c it raises the potential for violence (e.g. if we're all unarmed, nobody will get shot). Let me say that my typed words probably didn't accurately reflect my thoughts, because I believe that people ARE entitled to bear arms under the 2nd Amendment. I obviously didn't articulate myself well, but I also didn't intend to turn this thread into a Constitutional debate.

Carrying a firearm while hunting is currently illegal. If hunters unilaterally decide that this is a violation of their 2nd Amendment rights and carry anyway, in my mind, I believe that this creates the potential for deadly confrontations. CO's should not have to approach bowhunters in the field and make a judgment call as to whether those people are honest citizens or criminals if it is discovered that they are carrying a concealed weapon.

But the real purpose of my post was simply to suggest that I believe the law reasonably restricts what weapons you can carry in the field in order to protect the wildlife. You don't have to hunt if you feel unsafe without your sidearm. It's your choice, and I personally believe that the current law does not unreasonably restrict people from exercising their rights. I think you were the one that actually pointed out that hunting is a privilege, not a right, and I think the existing law not only makes it easier on CO's to do their job, it also serves its purpose in reducing the illegal taking of game.

No right-wing bashing here. We're on the same team!

[JTO]

As much as I hate to disagree with anyone ;) , I must dispute this opinion. To prove the point, ask a cop how often a doper or even a non-doped criminal will open up even when he knows the cops are there and are armed. The rationale doesn't work with everyone. On the other hand, rational people will not start a fight or a gun fight knowing that they face an armed individual. The crazies will still need to be dealt with. I speak as one who always carries in the woods and always will. It is not a fear of dogs, coyotes, snakes or any other creature besides man. All of the others are fairly predictable. Man is the one that you cannot depend upon to behave in a certain manner. You just never know how one will react in any given situation. As I saw posted by another on this thread, "It is better to be tried by 12 than to be carried by 6".


I dont think we disagree I understand what your saying thats why I used the word "USUALLY" instead of " Always" . What you say can and does happen but so does the presence of a firearm preventing problems as well.
I am a police officer with 15 years on the job in a major city with over 500 officers and we deal with hundreds maybe even thousand of dope heads and deranged people every year yet we only have a couple of shooting incidents a year.
There is also more reason to engage a police officer than there is some poor bowhunter. The police officer is there in most cases to arrest the person sometimes to send him to prison for a long time.
With the armed sportsman the criminal may just decide to leave him alone and look for an easier victim.(not always but it happens)
I hear what you are saying though and I think we are both right. stumbling into someones dope patch or dealing with these type of people is dangerous and anything could happen. Thats why you should have the right to be armed while bowhunting if you choose to do so.
:)

[Multidigits]

I guess at some point you have to look for need and look at the crime rate while in the woods hunting. My guess is that it's too low to compute??? In other words, the need is precieved, not actual. And dopers have always been a factor, even 10 - 15 years ago with weed patches. Nothing has changed on that front.

[gwhilikerz]

I guess at some point you have to look for need and look at the crime rate while in the woods hunting. My guess is that it's too low to compute??? In other words, the need is precieved, not actual. And dopers have always been a factor, even 10 - 15 years ago with weed patches. Nothing has changed on that front.
I think that the ccw law itself is the change. We now have the right to carry concealed and are bumping into barriers of where we can and can't carry. It is a feeling out process I suppose. I am not in fear of my life while bowhunting, never have been. This isn't a subject that I feel must be dealt with. I just have my opinion that I should be allowed to carry legally even bowhunting. not really a big deal to me tho.

[gwhilikerz]

sky and buckfever you are both right about the courthouse situation. I fully understand the problems that could come with just anyone having a weapon there. That is one of the places that should be out-of-bounds. I was thinking as an honest person and not considering that criminals outnumber honest folks around courthouses (no pun intended).

[grinder]

grinder said: "if hunting public land you never know what kind of freak you might run into, i hear some will be carrying x-bows! "
So now crossbow hunters are also freaks? Man you do more to aid the cause of crossbowers than anyone I can think of. I think we ought to make you a honorary member of UCBK.
comeon g-willi and multi ! lighten up a bit! IT WAS A JOKE! you guys stay too sore. if i repeated it a hundred times it still would not have the air time "elitist " got, now would it?

[GSP]

STOP THE XBOW DEBATE ON THIS THREAD NOW !

Let some folks carry on a debate without mudding up this issue.

Again the issue is, "should bowhunters be allowed to carry a Handgun? Motice I said Handgun! Not CCW. Bottom line is the only law preventing this says you can not carry a firearm. To change this one needs to present a proposal asking for the change they want. Do you want it as it is? Do you want a handgun only? Do you want restricted types of handguns? That is the debate.

[wprebeck]

I guess at some point you have to look for need and look at the crime rate while in the woods hunting. My guess is that it's too low to compute??? In other words, the need is precieved, not actual. And dopers have always been a factor, even 10 - 15 years ago with weed patches. Nothing has changed on that front.


Gee, does that mean we can do away with a full-service sheriff's department in all those rural areas in KY? The office of sheriff is mandated by the KY Constitution, but it can now be considered a figurehead spot...

After all, those small town boys don't ever have to deal with anyone in the woods, and F & W doesn't ever have to deal with trespassers/poachers on private property not their own, do they?



I just purchased 80 acres in Hopkins county, and hunted there for the 1st time today. A coworker of mine (my hunting partner) went with me, and oe of the major topics of conversation was how to deal with armed trespassers (it being the 1st day of spring turkey and all). Betcha I'll meet up with one of them from time to time, as I live in Louisville, and can only afford the gas to get there about 2X/month. Anyone wanna take odds on me finding someone there, possibly poaching, during bow season? Also, you can make a safe bet that I'll be carrying my G22 with X200, during the same time.


I've pointed it out before, and I'll ask it again:

Which takes precedence, KRS or KAR? KRS states I can carry all the time, anytime. This obviously conflicts with the KAR precluding carry during bow season. Anyone know what the overriding law is?


(I know I said I was done with this thread, but the suggestion that crime is nonexistant in rural areas got to me. Another coworker of mine had to remove a trespasser out of a treestand at gunpoint. This was after the trespasser threatened my friend with a gun, on my friend's land. But hey, it NEVER happens, so we don't need guns, right?)

[Dalebow]

GSP


Thank you i asked a question about concealed carry permit for bowhunters, with federal laws changed you can carry just about anywhere except schools and federal buildings so it seems to me the KDFW rule that bowhunter's can't carry a gun at all is unconstitutional since it is seperceded by state law. I just wanted to know the legal way to approach changing the rule, just like now when Iam approached by a law officer I inform them I am a concealed carry person and that I have a weapon, never been a problem. I think with the way things are going I'd rather have the protection than not and need it, again wild dogs and crazy people.

Dale

[Multidigits]

Gee, does that mean we can do away with a full-service sheriff's department in all those rural areas in KY? The office of sheriff is mandated by the KY Constitution, but it can now be considered a figurehead spot...

After all, those small town boys don't ever have to deal with anyone in the woods, and F & W doesn't ever have to deal with trespassers/poachers on private property not their own, do they?



I just purchased 80 acres in Hopkins county, and hunted there for the 1st time today. A coworker of mine (my hunting partner) went with me, and oe of the major topics of conversation was how to deal with armed trespassers (it being the 1st day of spring turkey and all). Betcha I'll meet up with one of them from time to time, as I live in Louisville, and can only afford the gas to get there about 2X/month. Anyone wanna take odds on me finding someone there, possibly poaching, during bow season? Also, you can make a safe bet that I'll be carrying my G22 with X200, during the same time.


I've pointed it out before, and I'll ask it again:

Which takes precedence, KRS or KAR? KRS states I can carry all the time, anytime. This obviously conflicts with the KAR precluding carry during bow season. Anyone know what the overriding law is?


(I know I said I was done with this thread, but the suggestion that crime is nonexistant in rural areas got to me. Another coworker of mine had to remove a trespasser out of a treestand at gunpoint. This was after the trespasser threatened my friend with a gun, on my friend's land. But hey, it NEVER happens, so we don't need guns, right?)

If crime in the outdoors is as rampant as you say it is,there should be some satistics to back it up. Just post the info on how many sportsmen have been raped, beaten, and robbed at gun point while hunting. And there's no reason you can't go get your gun before you confront the trespapsser. You can and still follow the law as written today. But after you post the crime report, and it shows a need, I'll get in there and help you get it changed?

[Dalebow]

wprebeck


your right on the money, 80 acres Iam sure will be hard to protect but you can't use deadly force to protect property as you know, but some of those people you might run into may hurt you, especially if they are making drugs.
Multi wants to see statistics, not me statistics means something has to happen to one of us to be counted, no thanks when time comes to become a stat I will have a 45 to make sure Iam on top!

[USFS LEO]

As I have said before, I support a person having the ability to protect themselves whether they are in the middle of the woods or the middle of Louisville, the no firearms while bowhunting is a long standing law meant to protect wildlife. However, there have been changes to the wildlife laws over the years that have had a greater affect on wildlife than the firearm during bowhunting (centerfire rifles for all small game for example). But the bottom line is that it is currently illegal to carry a firearm while bowhunting, can the regulation be changed? Certainly, regulations are changed every year. Will it result in an increase in crime if it is changed, probably not. Will more deer be killed illegally because of the change? who knows. Like I have said earlier it is a tool in the wildlife law enforcement officers tool box. Now, I apologize to the moderators in advance but I am going to degress from the topic briefly but to address somethings brought up in other posts.

Conservation Officers in particular and street level law enforcement officers in general are strong supporters of a law abiding citizens right to possess/carry firearms. Law Enforcement Officers understand better than anyone what type of evil exists in the world, they deal with it on one level or another on a daily basis. With that said, I have heard much talk on the thread about "running into these evil folks unaware" while hunting. A hunter is the last person that should "stumble" into these evil folks unaware. A hunter should be more aware of his/her surroundings than anyone else using the woods. My point with this is that we must all be situationally aware of what is going on around us whether we are in the wilderness or the Wal-mart. Can we all become zoned out and make a mistake, sure but we must strive to know what is going on around us at all times. Another comment, don't think just because you are carrying a firearm that the thugs will leave you alone. Thugs are used to being around guns, and having them pointed at them. What will make them leave you alone is if they realize that you have a gun, appear to be proficent with it, and while you don't want to you will shoot them if they force the issue. In other words don't fool yourself into thinking you can scare the thug away just by having a gun you must make the mental commitment that if forced to do so you will use it. Methheads aren't known for their good sense and rational thinking. Is there a potential of a unavoidable conflict, certainly is it common, no. Most of the conflicts I deal with between hunters are actually among members of the same party and almost always there is alcohol involved. As far as confronting a trespasser on your land/lease that is a completely different situation. You are bringing the confrontation to them and who knows what they will do, you should really evaluate the situation and try to learn as much about the person as possible before contacting them. This is probably the most dangerous situation a hunter will intentionally put themselves into, be careful. Finally remember what ever the situation, you can only use deadly force if you are in immenint danger of death or serious bodily injury or to protect someone else from the same.

[Multidigits]

To get the law changed, you'll be asked ffor satistics, if they exist. The problem you have is the Commissioners don't hunt in crappy places and will have a hard time feeling your pain. Take for example, Roy Grimes saying before that all the gun shots during archery season are just groundhog hunters? Show a need and you might do something. Second, get opinions from those directly effected--Ky. CO's.

[gwhilikerz]

I was hesitant to post this. I believe strongly in my right to carry "anywhere, anytime, any place". But I think multi will interpret this as me saying I am afraid to go into the woods after dark:D



Coyote shot after 2 Calgary toddlers attacked
Last Updated Wed, 20 Apr 2005 09:49:03 EDT
CBC News

CALGARY - One coyote has been shot and a second is being tracked after two small children were bitten in separate incidents at Calgary playgrounds Tuesday.

Emergency services says a three-year-old boy was playing in Confederation Park in northwest Calgary at about 10 a.m. when he was attacked.

Witnesses said a coyote grabbed Leonard Mustafa by the head, puncturing the skin on his head, under his eye and on the left side of his face.

A worker from the boy's daycare scared off the animal, which hasn't been confirmed to be a coyote. Leonard was taken to hospital for treatment.

At 3 p.m., paramedics were called to the Rosedale Community Centre in northwest Calgary to deal with a 2 ½-year-old girl.

Ellie Judson had been attacked while playing outside with her babysitter by an animal witnesses described as a coyote.

Her mother, Suzy Judson, said the child had puncture wounds to her head and right ankle.

"We feel quite lucky ... it could have been a lot worse," said Judson. "But it's not a phone call you like to get."

Ellie was taken to hospital for treatment as well.

Mike Plato of the city's Emergency Medical Services branch said it was an unusual day indeed.

"It's more common for paramedics to respond to a call where a child had been bitten by a family dog than to respond to a call twice in the same day where a suspected coyote is involved."

At about 4 p.m., police shot and killed a coyote in the area, one of 1,000 thought to be living within the city of Calgary.

The carcass has been turned over to wildlife officials for tests.

Coyote attacks unusual: wildlife officer

Fish and Wildlife officer Ed Pirogowicz said that despite the number of coyotes in city limits, attacks are highly unusual.

"Over the last 20 or 30 years across North America, there's been something like 17 attacks that have been substantiated," he said. "So in North America that's quite a rare occurrence."

That's cold comfort to people who live in Calgary's inner city neighbourhoods, however.

Cher Ferral's house backs on to the park where Ellie Judson was attacked.

She said she has spotted several coyotes emerging from a nearby escarpment and boldly approaching people.

"It's kind of scary that they're coming right up here," she said. "I mean, you would think you could go to the park with your kids and not have to worry about coyotes.

"I think that's pretty scary."

After a pair of attacks in British Columbia four years ago, wildlife officers said the animals are venturing further into the city as they lose their fear of humans.

The animals normally target cats and small dogs, but attacks on young children are not unknown.

[kycowboy]

you can't even carry a pistol while turkey hunting it is against regs.

[KYBOY]

i believe in anyones right to keep and bear arms. if that happen to be bowhunting then so be it.
i am a federal law enforcement officer so it dosnt really pertain to me anyway, but i do believe anybody should have the right. trust me ive seen what kind of "people's are out there. the bears are the least of your worries.

[turk2di]

i believe in anyones right to keep and bear arms. if that happen to be bowhunting then so be it.
i am a federal law enforcement officer so it dosnt really pertain to me anyway, but i do believe anybody should have the right. trust me ive seen what kind of "people's are out there. the bears are the least of your worries.
Amen brother...Amen!