Who to call?

[Mit Sirrom]

I just want to know who to call and speak of my opinion. I never knew of any vote poll myself. If there is a need in my say so, I would be more than willing to give it up.

[BOBCAT]

MIT, Call Your District Commissioner. Just Pm Multi I'm Sure He Will Be Glas To Help You;) :D

[gwhilikerz]

I just want to know who to call and speak of my opinion. I never knew of any vote poll myself. If there is a need in my say so, I would be more than willing to give it up.
Not sure what you are talking about but if it is the xbow issue you should call your district commissioner.

[Mit Sirrom]

I am trying to catch my breath!!!!

[Mit Sirrom]

I am looking for a name and number of who to call and voice my opinion.

[Mit Sirrom]

If they are trying to overturn the decision then shouldnt I be able to call somebody and let them know my stand?

[Al]

Tim I dont know who you can call, but if you dont mind me asking , what is your stand ?

[gwhilikerz]

If they are trying to overturn the decision then shouldnt I be able to call somebody and let them know my stand?
What district are you in? Somebody will find the number for you.

[Multidigits]

If they are trying to overturn the decision then shouldnt I be able to call somebody and let them know my stand?

Call Schuyler Olt...but it's too late for your opinion. The debate portion is over, it's now in the appeal stage. At this point, your opinion doesn't mean a lot, but you can always call somebody if you want.

[Mit Sirrom]

Al, I am all for the crossbows.......in their own season!!! I believe that the seasons are set up for each weapon in a manner that best suites all hunters. If the xbowers want to hunt from Sept. to Jan. then they can purchase a bow just as though if I want to hunt during crossbow season then I would buy a crossbow!If things remain as they are, I am not gonna hate all the crossbowers. But if I had an opinion to be expressed, then this is it!!!

[buckfever]

Call Schuyler Olt...but it's too late for your opinion. The debate portion is over, it's now in the appeal stage. At this point, your opinion doesn't mean a lot, but you can always call somebody if you want.

It is NOT too late for your opinion, and this regulation is not in the "appeal" stage, whatever that means. I have an official letter from KDFWR stating that there will be a "public hearing" on these "proposed crossbow season" changes on April 22nd at 2 pm at the Arnold Mitchell Commission Bldg Conference Center, KDFWR, #1 Game Farm Road, Frankfort, KY 40601. If you cannot attend, you can submit written comments to Dan Figert's attention prior to May 2, 2005. Hope this clarifies things. I'm not sure why anyone would intentionally try to deceive you and tell you that your opinion doesn't matter.

[Mit Sirrom]

Come on Buck, his name aint multidigits for no reason....he has multiple digital personalities!!!!!:D :D

[gwhilikerz]

I sure hope you two show up with lots to say. Everyone should be heard and I'm sure you will do a fine job:)

[gwhilikerz]

It is NOT too late for your opinion, and this regulation is not in the "appeal" stage, whatever that means. I have an official letter from KDFWR stating that there will be a "public hearing" on these "proposed crossbow season" changes on April 22nd at 2 pm at the Arnold Mitchell Commission Bldg Conference Center, KDFWR, #1 Game Farm Road, Frankfort, KY 40601. If you cannot attend, you can submit written comments to Dan Figert's attention prior to May 2, 2005. Hope this clarifies things. I'm not sure why anyone would intentionally try to deceive you and tell you that your opinion doesn't matter.
buckfever would you post that letter to this forum? That way nobody can say they didn't know and the survey....er... I mean letter is meaningless since they didn't get a copy.

[buckfever]

buckfever would you post that letter to this forum? That way nobody can say they didn't know and the survey....er... I mean letter is meaningless since they didn't get a copy.

I don't have the technical know-how or equipment in my office to scan the letter, and I'm not going to type in the whole thing, but here are the salient points. April 22nd, 2005 - "public hearing". "If you are not able to attend the public hearing and would like to submit written comments, please address your comments to Dan Figert prior to May 2, 2005. The KDFWR will address and respond in writing to all comments received at the public hearing and in writing. Thank you for your interest in Kentucky's wildlife laws."

[gwhilikerz]

Is the "proposed crossbow season" changes the only thing on the agenda? I haven't received any info from KDFWR or anyone else. C'mon share the info with the rest of us.:)

[Multidigits]

It is NOT too late for your opinion, and this regulation is not in the "appeal" stage, whatever that means. I have an official letter from KDFWR stating that there will be a "public hearing" on these "proposed crossbow season" changes on April 22nd at 2 pm at the Arnold Mitchell Commission Bldg Conference Center, KDFWR, #1 Game Farm Road, Frankfort, KY 40601. If you cannot attend, you can submit written comments to Dan Figert's attention prior to May 2, 2005. Hope this clarifies things. I'm not sure why anyone would intentionally try to deceive you and tell you that your opinion doesn't matter.

The regulation has been passed and your appealing to get it changed, HOW is that not an appeal process. For example if there was no appeal, then the regulation change would stand.

As for additional comments, you can speak but you have to follow the procedure in place. And it's not a new arguement, you have to contest the previous proceedings and if they were lawful. From all indications and the two investigations done, the meeting and vote was lawful. We'll see during the appeal hearing for sure.

[buckfever]

The regulation has been passed and your appealing to get it changed, HOW is that not an appeal process. For example if there was no appeal, then the regulation change would stand.

As for additional comments, you can speak but you have to follow the procedure in place. And it's not a new arguement, you have to contest the previous proceedings and if they were lawful. From all indications and the two investigations done, the meeting and vote was lawful. We'll see during the appeal hearing for sure.

The Commissioners and the Dept can amend any or scrap entirely the proposed reg changes at the April 22, 2005 hearing. YOUR public input matters, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THAT INPUT WEIGHS ON AN A LEGAL ISSUE OR NOT. People, do not be fooled into believing that these proposals are etched in stone. The same people that are telling you that there's no need to voice your opinions are the same people who are telling you that the UBK is the only organization that is opposed to the crossbow season changes. In actuality, there will be MANY, MANY organizations on hand at the April 22nd meeting to voice their displeasure about these proposed season changes, and every voice counts (regardless of your views or whether your making a legal challenge or not).

I've received some second-hand info that everyone attending the meeting will allow to speak. However, the governing statutes actually state that you must submit a written letter asking to be recognized and informing about the matters you'd like to address AT LEAST 5 DAYS PRIOR TO THE HEARING before you must be recognized. For this reason, I suggest that people who want to attend should write a letter to the KDFWR to arrive no later than April 17, 2005.

GWh - I received the letter in response to my questions concerning the crossbow season changes. The letter did not state whether they were going to address other matters, so I can't answer your question.

[Multidigits]

Anything can be changed. We might revert to a 2 buck limit or 1 turkey. You have to be realistic and consider that the decision was made, it's in place, and some are trying to get it reversed. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Telling lies about the process isn't fooling anyone. If your in doubt, call Frankfort and see for yourself. The facts are that there is a standard procedure used for these types of appeals. You can bet it won't be changed with so many people watching the outcome.

There was another appeal of another change. It's been heard and is already decided. The one on April 22nd will be the only issue heard.

[buckfever]

Anything can be changed. We might revert to a 2 buck limit or 1 turkey. You have to be realistic and consider that the decision was made, it's in place, and some are trying to get it reversed. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Telling lies about the process isn't fooling anyone. If your in doubt, call Frankfort and see for yourself. The facts are that there is a standard procedure used for these types of appeals. You can bet it won't be changed with so many people watching the outcome.

There was another appeal of another change. It's been heard and is already decided. The one on April 22nd will be the only issue heard.

You can call it an "appeal" if you think that put a better spin on things, but it is NOT an appeal. This proposed regulation has not gone through the appropriate process that is required of any regulation and is NOT currently effective. If it were Sept 10th and the proposed reg was where it currently is in the process, it would be ILLEGAL to hunt with a crossbow (absent a handicapped exemption). At the April 22nd meeting, the Commissioners themselves can decide that they acted too hastily or with insufficient information, and they can decide to withdraw the proposed measure. Exploring this option is certainly one of the purposes of the April 22nd public hearing and a reason why public input IS important. I understand that you are financially tied to the outcome of the April 22nd public hearing, but that is NOT a valid reason to tell others that their input is NOT necessary or even helpful.

[Al]

Buckfever in every other post you refer to profits and financial gains.
Mabey you grew up in the Soviet Union but now you are in the USA! Let me make it simple for you to understand: Capitalism good, communism bad.
Profit good, loss bad.

[gwhilikerz]

MY commish said the public hearing April 22 is an "APPEAL". I think that sums it up pretty well. Now as far as the financial thing. Multi has a business that is hunting related. he wouldn't be much of a businessman if he didn't include xbows in that business.
The more i read from you buckfever and see how you try to twist things to fit your agenda the more I see what an a**h**** you are. Please be sure to shout your opinions and demands at the top of your voice during the hearing, commissioners really like that:D

[buckfever]

Buckfever in every other post you refer to profits and financial gains.
Mabey you grew up in the Soviet Union but now you are in the USA! Let me make it simple for you to understand: Capitalism good, communism bad.
Profit good, loss bad.

Al - I'm not sure if your post was sarcastically written as an intended insult (was it?), but I've got no problem with profits and making money. However, please keep my posts in context. It's been said on here that the only reason why bowhunters, particularly UBK, are against the season changes is out of selfish motivations to keep other hunters out of the woods. I've simply pointed out that some pro-crossbow people are in it to line their own pockets, not for the pretextual reasons given, such as "it's about extra opportunity", etc. etc.

FYI - I personally don't think xbows would drastically affect my hunting one way or the other. As a landowner, I've got some concerns about increased trespassing and poaching (yes, it is already a problem for me from trespassing bow and gun hunters, but I don't particularly like the idea of a silent weapon that you can readily use off the ground). I'm a little more concerned about the resources, particularly turkeys, and I KNOW that the Department biologists didn't perform exhaustive research on the issue. However, the thing that really made me want to get involved with this issue is the process in which it was handled. Within the span of 30 days, the Commissioners effectively adopted THE MOST LIBERAL crossbow season for deer and turkeys of any state in the Union. I think there are many, many organizations out there that are opposed to all of this simply because the Dept and Commissioners failed to obtain ANY feedback from the sportsmen of KY.

[Multidigits]

You can call it an "appeal" if you think that put a better spin on things, but it is NOT an appeal. This proposed regulation has not gone through the appropriate process that is required of any regulation and is NOT currently effective. If it were Sept 10th and the proposed reg was where it currently is in the process, it would be ILLEGAL to hunt with a crossbow (absent a handicapped exemption). At the April 22nd meeting, the Commissioners themselves can decide that they acted too hastily or with insufficient information, and they can decide to withdraw the proposed measure. Exploring this option is certainly one of the purposes of the April 22nd public hearing and a reason why public input IS important. I understand that you are financially tied to the outcome of the April 22nd public hearing, but that is NOT a valid reason to tell others that their input is NOT necessary or even helpful.

I'm financially tied to it just like your reputation as a lawyer is at stake. You've got a lot of ground to make up and I've got another job, so it looks like your losing out again? Seems your sources are telling you something different than what I'm getting. Not that it matters, the hearing is what it is, and the
Dept. website shows crossbow starting on Sept. 3rd. and the hunting guides are being published. Sounds like the prudent man would have to assume it's up to you to reverse the rule? But you believe what you want. Why would we care what you believe?

[Multidigits]

Al - I'm not sure if your post was sarcastically written as an intended insult (was it?), but I've got no problem with profits and making money. However, please keep my posts in context. It's been said on here that the only reason why bowhunters, particularly UBK, are against the season changes is out of selfish motivations to keep other hunters out of the woods. I've simply pointed out that some pro-crossbow people are in it to line their own pockets, not for the pretextual reasons given, such as "it's about extra opportunity", etc. etc.

FYI - I personally don't think xbows would drastically affect my hunting one way or the other. As a landowner, I've got some concerns about increased trespassing and poaching (yes, it is already a problem for me from trespassing bow and gun hunters, but I don't particularly like the idea of a silent weapon that you can readily use off the ground). I'm a little more concerned about the resources, particularly turkeys, and I KNOW that the Department biologists didn't perform exhaustive research on the issue. However, the thing that really made me want to get involved with this issue is the process in which it was handled. Within the span of 30 days, the Commissioners effectively adopted THE MOST LIBERAL crossbow season for deer and turkeys of any state in the Union. I think there are many, many organizations out there that are opposed to all of this simply because the Dept and Commissioners failed to obtain ANY feedback from the sportsmen of KY.


The 30 day process has been on going for many years. This isn't a new issue and the arguments are always the same. Different year, differnent day. It passed this time so you arguement that it was railroaded through is without merit. And they have their feedback in the usual way.

[gwhilikerz]

Al - I'm not sure if your post was sarcastically written as an intended insult (was it?), but I've got no problem with profits and making money. However, please keep my posts in context. It's been said on here that the only reason why bowhunters, particularly UBK, are against the season changes is out of selfish motivations to keep other hunters out of the woods. I've simply pointed out that some pro-crossbow people are in it to line their own pockets, not for the pretextual reasons given, such as "it's about extra opportunity", etc. etc.

FYI - I personally don't think xbows would drastically affect my hunting one way or the other. As a landowner, I've got some concerns about increased trespassing and poaching (yes, it is already a problem for me from trespassing bow and gun hunters, but I don't particularly like the idea of a silent weapon that you can readily use off the ground). I'm a little more concerned about the resources, particularly turkeys, and I KNOW that the Department biologists didn't perform exhaustive research on the issue. However, the thing that really made me want to get involved with this issue is the process in which it was handled. Within the span of 30 days, the Commissioners effectively adopted THE MOST LIBERAL crossbow season for deer and turkeys of any state in the Union. I think there are many, many organizations out there that are opposed to all of this simply because the Dept and Commissioners failed to obtain ANY feedback from the sportsmen of KY.
Dang! Now xbow users are not only poachers and tresspassers, but people are in danger from these "silent killers" that strike without warning! Once again you mention the UBK to strengthen your stature on this issue. Are you speaking for UBK? Are you an officer, director, or serve in any capacity?

[buckfever]

MY commish said the public hearing April 22 is an "APPEAL". I think that sums it up pretty well. Now as far as the financial thing. Multi has a business that is hunting related. he wouldn't be much of a businessman if he didn't include xbows in that business.
The more i read from you buckfever and see how you try to twist things to fit your agenda the more I see what an a**h**** you are. Please be sure to shout your opinions and demands at the top of your voice during the hearing, commissioners really like that:D

Gwillie -
Here's what Multi said: "Call Schuyler Olt...but it's too late for your opinion. The debate portion is over, it's now in the appeal stage. At this point, your opinion doesn't mean a lot, but you can always call somebody if you want."

This is ultimately what I said to Multi: "I understand that you are financially tied to the outcome of the April 22nd public hearing, but that is NOT a valid reason to tell others that their input is NOT necessary or even helpful."

What's my "hidden" agenda? What's missing here? Of course, Multi doesn't want people to show up and complain about the season changes. He WANTS the season changes to go through so he can sell some crossbows. I'm not sure why this qualifies me as an "a**h****", as you put it, but this is the second time you've attacked me personally (the first time you called me an "elitist SOB"). I've never made a derogatory comment about you.

And yes, I'll be there on April 22nd so you can hear my "bumbling" (as Multi put it) presentation to the Dept. I doubt shouting will be necessary. HehHeh.

[buckfever]

Damn! Now xbow users are not only poachers and tresspassers, but people are in danger from these "silent killers" that strike without warning! Once again you mention the UBK to strengthen your stature on this issue. Are you speaking for UBK? Are you an officer, director, or serve in any capacity?

Nope, I'm not a member. I do not speak for UBK or any other group (except ORBA). I might join UBK at some point (don't even know whether I need to be invited or not), but I'm not currently a member. I just happen to like Mike and Walt (and the others I've met) from UBK. I also happen to agree with their approach on the crossbow issue. I personally take issue with the misimpression about UBK that some on here are giving by painting them as the only organization (or even the ringleader) that is opposed to these recent proposed changes. I can personally list at least 25 other sportsmen's organizations, many of which are not bowhunters, that feel that the recent vote by the Commission needs to be rescinded.

[Multidigits]

Gwillie -
Here's what Multi said: "Call Schuyler Olt...but it's too late for your opinion. The debate portion is over, it's now in the appeal stage. At this point, your opinion doesn't mean a lot, but you can always call somebody if you want."

This is ultimately what I said to Multi: "I understand that you are financially tied to the outcome of the April 22nd public hearing, but that is NOT a valid reason to tell others that their input is NOT necessary or even helpful."

What's my "hidden" agenda? What's missing here? Of course, Multi doesn't want people to show up and complain about the season changes. He WANTS the season changes to go through so he can sell some crossbows. I'm not sure why this qualifies me as an "a**h****", as you put it, but this is the second time you've attacked me personally (the first time you called me an "elitist SOB"). I've never made a derogatory comment about you.

And yes, I'll be there on April 22nd so you can hear my "bumbling" (as Multi put it) presentation to the Dept. I doubt shouting will be necessary. HehHeh.


Last time I'm going over this. You say it's not an appeal, Tom Bennett says it is, Scott Porter says it is, Gassett says it is and so does Mr. Hensley. Now you can call it what ever the hell you want to call it, I don't care. The facts are, the regulation passed the commission on March 4th, if there is no appeal, then it goes into effect and starts on Sept. 3rd. Your appealing, so that part of the process is on hold. It'll be settled on April 22nd.

The crossbows for sale deal isn't even worthy of a rebuttal. Like legal advice from a jack-leg lawyer, there's not much money in it. I do plan to help out those that have helped with this process by getting them geared up as economically as possible. So far interest is high. I have been lied about several times before on this issue, so one or two more won't hurt. As for you motive, at this point it's mostly to save face. Your last presentation flew over like a lead baloon, so you have a lot of room for improvement. I'm sure you'll be simply dazzling this time.

[buckfever]

As for you motive, at this point it's mostly to save face. Your last presentation flew over like a lead baloon, so you have a lot of room for improvement. I'm sure you'll be simply dazzling this time.

If my motive is not as stated, what is it? I'm not doing anything as an attorney, just a sportsman, so save your breath on that. You keep implying that "my reputation as an attorney" is on the line, how so? I'm doing this because I want to do it, not because anybody's paying me anything. I don't remember that I ever appeared as an attorney on anyone's behalf.

As for my presentation. . .hey, I never claimed to be the best public speaker (although I've been told by quite a few that I did a fine job), but I don't think any amount of eloquence would've won the day on March 4th. I will say that I know a lot more about how this whole thing evolved now than I did then, so who knows, I'll let 'er rip and we'll see what happens.

[Multidigits]

If my motive is not as stated, what is it? I'm not doing anything as an attorney, just a sportsman, so save your breath on that. You keep implying that "my reputation as an attorney" is on the line, how so? I'm doing this because I want to do it, not because anybody's paying me anything. I don't remember that I ever appeared as an attorney on anyone's behalf.

As for my presentation. . .hey, I never claimed to be the best public speaker (although I've been told by quite a few that I did a fine job), but I don't think any amount of eloquence would've won the day on March 4th. I will say that I know a lot more about how this whole thing evolved now than I did then, so who knows, I'll let 'er rip and we'll see what happens.

I think it fair to say that your doing to get back at myself for some reason, who knows what. You stated several times back in Feb. that you didn't care about the issue one way or the other. Several times, not once. then you show up with the same argument that you used here on the website. I told you that you were wrong, but you didn't believe it. Then Gassett put you in your place and you didn't know what to say. Now it appears you are working as hard or harder than anyone to overturn the process. Your calling my friend and pumping for dirt. Your making calls to Frankfort and so on. All from a guy that didn't care one way or the other. Strange to say the least. What's your real motive, WHO cares???? I know i don't because you on the wrong side on this one and the truth will win out.

[kybowhunter1963]

Sir

You are more than welcome to place membership with the UBK... View this as YOUR personal invitation.

Glenn
Former Secretary, UBK

[buckfever]

If I got carried away and called you an elitist SOB I do apologise. I don't normally use the SOB card. It isn't my style. Besides I don't even know your mother. But i will go back and check my posts.

Gwhillikerz - Please stop. Your post calling me an "elitist SOB" was already deleted by the moderators, so you don't need to worry about that one. However, I'd ask you to stop making any comments about my Mother.

[buckfever]

Sir

You are more than welcome to place membership with the UBK... View this as YOUR personal invitation.

Glenn
Former Secretary, UBK

Thank you Glenn. I'll consider it.

[maxcam]

Buckfever in every other post you refer to profits and financial gains.
Mabey you grew up in the Soviet Union but now you are in the USA! Let me make it simple for you to understand: Capitalism good, communism bad.
Profit good, loss bad.

And the last time I checked Al the USA was a democracy. And being as such the voice of the people must be heard. According to Allen Gailore's own admissions publicly this did not happen. By the way folks incase you haven't heard he was the deciding vote on the commission. He stated publicly the overwelming calls to his office were in opposition to this proposal. Yet like a Czar he voted for what he thought was best for all of us.

[Multidigits]

And the last time I checked Al the USA was a democracy. And being as such the voice of the people must be heard. According to Allen Gailore's own admissions publicly this did not happen. By the way folks incase you haven't heard he was the deciding vote on the commission. He stated publicly the overwelming calls to his office were in opposition to this proposal. Yet like a Czar he voted for what he thought was best for all of us.

Your wrong. The deciding vote was Mr. Hensley. Gailor voted the way he thought the Dept. needed to go for the good of all, and he made the right decision based on ALL the data and facts presented. He also was lied to by one of his constituients about a Federation meeting vote.

[buckfever]

Now don't try to pull that lawyer crap with me. I didn't say anything about your mother. I even said I couldn't say anything cause i don't know her. You say i called you an SOB . I didn't remember saying that but i did apologise if I did. I asked you where it was posted. Now you say it was deleted. Man you are certainly living up to the "lawyer" reputation.

Gwhillikerz - Let me refresh your recollection. . . .You called me an elitist sob in a thread (about 2 weeks ago) that got deleted in its entirety. Multi posted something about how bowhunters (I believe he called out UBK) would probably object if he proposed a program to allow handicapped kids to use crossbows in the Archery in the Schools Programs. I posted a curt (yes, sarcastic) response that I'm sure AISP would certainly make accomodations for handicapped kids and that, if granted, Multi could then use that as a platform to allow mentally challenged adults to compete in archery competitions with a crossbow. Multi didn't respond. You did by calling me an "elitist sob" and a few other things. THIS RINGING ANY BELLS WITH YOU YET?

Now please leave my Mother completely out of this. By even commenting that you don't know her suggests that the possibility exists that she is a bitch. Direct all the sarcasm you want my way, I'm a big boy and I can handle it, but things get a little far afield when you start leveling your sights at women who happen to be the Mothers of people you don't like.

[Walt K]

"I don't normally use the SOB card. It isn't my style. Besides I don't even know your mother." - Gwhillikerz

Gee Willi..how old are you? If you can't say anything adult like, don't. I really question the education level and couth of some of the posters on here.

[Multidigits]

Look what the cat drug back in. :confused:

[gwhilikerz]

"I don't normally use the SOB card. It isn't my style. Besides I don't even know your mother." - Gwhillikerz

Gee Willi..how old are you? If you can't say anything adult like, don't. I really question the education level and couth of some of the posters on here.
Walt this is getting very old. If I called anyone SOB I do apologise. I'm tired of people saying things and then not being able to back it up. I'm am uncouth and I admit it. I don't believe in shmoozing and kissing butt, even to get what i want. No I'm not as "educated" as some on here, never been to law school for instance. Never took a class in journalism and called myself a writer. Never ran for public office, too much politics. Spent 30 yrs of my life working in the same factory. Did my time in the military ,got out, got married. But enough of this.
I asked buckfever to show me where I called him a sob and he hasn't. I don't remember the tirade he claims I launched at him. And I can assure you that I don't call folks sob. I'm not saying that it is impossible that he thinks I posted that. I may well have posted "elitist snob". I dunno, I have used "elitist" lots of times. So, in an effort to smooth over buckfever's hurt feelings I went back and deleted or edited my posts concerning him in this thread.

[aceoky]

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxcam
And the last time I checked Al the USA was a democracy. And being as such the voice of the people must be heard. According to Allen Gailore's own admissions publicly this did not happen. By the way folks incase you haven't heard he was the deciding vote on the commission. He stated publicly the overwelming calls to his office were in opposition to this proposal. Yet like a Czar he voted for what he thought was best for all of us.


WRONG (again)... the U S of A is a REPUBLIC NOT a democracy!!! It would be a great idea, if everyone would learn the difference IMHO.....

................And to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation under God....... :)

AND since when is this a "proposed change", unless it's overturned on APPEAL, it has passed????? Sounds unlike a "proposed plan" to me(at least)????????

[maxcam]

Hey Ace why dont you sent that post to some of the brave men and women that are fighting to bring democracy to place like Irag or Afganastan. The last time I took a Civics courses there was no such thing as a Republic........And before you get to quick to jump the gun and run to the court of appeals........what legislation are you going to appeal.......The KDFW is not a legislative body.
So before you open you mouth and prove to everybody in here just how much of a dumbass you are think about what you are saying...........

[Multidigits]

Hey Ace why dont you sent that post to some of the brave men and women that are fighting to bring democracy to place like Irag or Afganastan. The last time I took a Civics courses there was no such thing as a Republic........And before you get to quick to jump the gun and run to the court of appeals........what legislation are you going to appeal.......The KDFW is not a legislative body.
So before you open you mouth and prove to everybody in here just how much of a dumbass you are think about what you are saying...........

typical response....wonder what organization he belongs to?

[gwhilikerz]

Hey Ace why dont you sent that post to some of the brave men and women that are fighting to bring democracy to place like Irag or Afganastan. The last time I took a Civics courses there was no such thing as a Republic........And before you get to quick to jump the gun and run to the court of appeals........what legislation are you going to appeal.......The KDFW is not a legislative body.
So before you open you mouth and prove to everybody in here just how much of a dumbass you are think about what you are saying...........

When the facts are against you it is time to shout, cry, curse, stomp you feet, and have a hissy fit. I think that should be the motto for some "Elitists"

[buckfever]

I think it fair to say that your doing to get back at myself for some reason, who knows what. You stated several times back in Feb. that you didn't care about the issue one way or the other. Several times, not once. then you show up with the same argument that you used here on the website. I told you that you were wrong, but you didn't believe it. Then Gassett put you in your place and you didn't know what to say. Now it appears you are working as hard or harder than anyone to overturn the process. Your calling my friend and pumping for dirt. Your making calls to Frankfort and so on. All from a guy that didn't care one way or the other. Strange to say the least. What's your real motive, WHO cares???? I know i don't because you on the wrong side on this one and the truth will win out.

Tom - No, it's not to get back at you. I'll admit that I probably didn't give the issue too much thought in the original crossbow thread, but you were so damned disagreeable (i.e. I was "wrong" and you told me so) to me and everone else that questioned the wisdom of an extended crossbow season that I actually started paying attention. As I said before, there are certainly some valid points for allowing a longer crossbow season for deer.

However, what caused me to show up on March 4th wasn't anything you said or did, it was the reports that the commission vote was decided well before the public hearing and how quickly the Dept was acting on a decision that THEY KNEW would create a lot of dissension. You obviously knew the score b/c you made several tongue in cheek references about it being a done deal. This is what irked me more than anything. I believe that issues that are perceived as a "big deal" by sportsmen (even if you don't believe that crossbows are a big deal, many others do) should not be passed without public input. The commission serves us, not the other way around, and I was offended with some of the reasons why this item required an immediate vote.

For example, Commish Gailor said he answered to two bosses: (1) his constituents and (2) Gov. Fletcher. On March 4th, he stated that he had to vote in line with his constituents (indicating he was going to vote against). AFter you told him that the 3d District hadn't voted on the issue, he said he was misinformed and later changed his mind and said he'd vote for it. Even if he was lied to, he had no idea what his constituents wanted, so why not table the vote for a month so that he could actually determine what his constituents thought? Because Mr. Gailor stated that he felt obliged to vote in line with his constituents, I saw immediately that the League and my Federation WERE important to the process so I joined. There is no question that Commish Gailor himself, through his comments, was responsible for the high turnout at the very next federation meeting. I'm not sure why, after all this, people who felt strongly about the issue wouldn't attend the meeting, but it was obvious that many, many more people opposed to the crossbows showed up at the Federation meeting and voted accordingly. After the 3d District Fed vote, I asked Mr. Gailor whether he'd reconsider his vote given the vote by his constituents, which he said was so important at the March 4th meeting. I was offended that he begged the question saying his constituents included "bird-watchers and hikers" (as though they care one way or another) and comparing this crossbow issue to segregation (in other words, I'll vote in line with my constituents but only if I want to). I would certainly be a lot less critical of the process if Commish Gailor had simply said that he understands the opposition but feels that expanding the crossbow season was good for Ky sportsmen in the long run. He didn't. Instead, he tried to dove-tail his vote into some notion that the sportsmen were behind it when all evidence was to the contrary.

[globemountain]

Contrary to what certain groups are saying, If you ask every person who buys a resident hunting license in the state of Kentucky an overwhelming majority would be FOR expanded crossbow use. Since we don't use "weapon specific" tags in Kentucky the resources should support the the expanded use of crossbows... example: "Joe Gunhunter" used his buck tag in Archery/Crossbow season instead of Gun season. That is a tag that would have been sold/used anyway.

[buckfever]

Contrary to what certain groups are saying, If you ask every person who buys a resident hunting license in the state of Kentucky an overwhelming majority would be FOR expanded crossbow use. Since we don't use "weapon specific" tags in Kentucky the resources should support the the expanded use of crossbows... example: "Joe Gunhunter" used his buck tag in Archery/Crossbow season instead of Gun season. That is a tag that would have been sold/used anyway.

I believe the opposite - i.e. that the "overwhelming majority" would be against the crossbow use, but we'll never know until the Dept takes a closer look into it. If it is determined that there will won't be any harmful impact on deer and turkeys and the sportsmen are behind it, then clearly the expanded season should pass. However, I don't think that the resource impact or the public support has been adequately examined.

[Willie]

I believe the opposite - i.e. that the "overwhelming majority" would be against the crossbow use, but we'll never know until the Dept takes a closer look into it. If it is determined that there will won't be any harmful impact on deer and turkeys and the sportsmen are behind it, then clearly the expanded season should pass. However, I don't think that the resource impact or the public support has been adequately examined.

Did you miss the 2002 survey?

What did the majority want then?

Why would it be any different today than then?

Should they keep on surveying until they get the answer that you like?

Yes, a majority of bowhunters would not want them as they are trying to protect their own little playground. I wish that you guys would look at the big picture of hunting and not just a very small part of it called bowhunting.
This is bringing more people into archery hunting and that is a good thing, no matter which way you slice it.

[schuyler olt]

We don't need a "do you favor" survey.

We need to first scrap what was passed in March. Then we need to put the sportsmen in a room and have them develop five alternatives ranging from the old reg to the new fully expanded season.

We then take those five proposals and do a COMPARATIVE survey, where the respondents rank the five from most preferable to least preferable. You take the results and add up the points. That way, you not only learn what we prefer, you learn what we will accept and what we won't.

[globemountain]

I believe the opposite - i.e. that the "overwhelming majority" would be against the crossbow use, but we'll never know until the Dept takes a closer look into it. If it is determined that there will won't be any harmful impact on deer and turkeys and the sportsmen are behind it, then clearly the expanded season should pass. However, I don't think that the resource impact or the public support has been adequately examined.You can believe that if you want....but reality dictates otherwise. You cannot argue with the example the state of Ohio has in place. 30 years of crossbow use.....very little negative impact......tremendous oportunity for sportsmen. FACT.

[globemountain]

We don't need a "do you favor" survey.

We need to first scrap what was passed in March. Then we need to put the sportsmen in a room and have them develop five alternatives ranging from the old reg to the new fully expanded season.

We then take those five proposals and do a COMPARATIVE survey, where the respondents rank the five from most preferable to least preferable. You take the results and add up the points. That way, you not only learn what we prefer, you learn what we will accept and what we won't.I don't think you need a "do you favor" survey. Let the Commissioners do their job.

[Willie]

You mean this survey that asked whether people supported crossbow, did not support crossbows or didn't really care one way or the other?

Did not the largest portion "support" crossbow in archery season?

There were 4,455 repondees and you think a meeting of "sportsmen in a room" would give a more accurate account of what the KY sportmen/women want? Do you think those people could speak for every sportsman/woman in the state?

The survey was accurate and valid. You just dont like the results of it and think that a more than likley biased group can make a better decision than the 4,455 sportsmen/women that responded.

I do believe that the commissioners should listen to the survey and not a vocal minority who's only desire is to keep the woods all to themselves..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/GSP/xbowdata.jpg

[buckfever]

Did you miss the 2002 survey?

What did the majority want then?

Why would it be any different today than then?

Should they keep on surveying until they get the answer that you like?

Yes, a majority of bowhunters would not want them as they are trying to protect their own little playground. I wish that you guys would look at the big picture of hunting and not just a very small part of it called bowhunting.
This is bringing more people into archery hunting and that is a good thing, no matter which way you slice it.

I think it's fairly common knowledge that the crossbow survey question and results from the 2002 poll were (a) vague and unreliable on their face; (b) NOT considered to be scientific or conclusive of ANYTHING by those who drafted it; and (c) certainly NOT intended to be used in the fashion offered at the March 4th meeting.

If you learned that the crossbow question was actually designed to determine how the the general hunting public felt about the Department's efforts to include handicapped hunters (i.e. by allowing the "use of crossbows across the entire archery season"), would you agree that the results would not be dispositive on the issue of whether the public supported the expansion of the crossbow season for non-handicapped archers?

[aceoky]

Hey Ace why dont you sent that post to some of the brave men and women that are fighting to bring democracy to place like Irag or Afganastan. The last time I took a Civics courses there was no such thing as a Republic........And before you get to quick to jump the gun and run to the court of appeals........what legislation are you going to appeal.......The KDFW is not a legislative body.
So before you open you mouth and prove to everybody in here just how much of a dumbass you are think about what you are saying...........

IF you believe (honestly) that you're correct; then I won't waste my time(though you'd best take the course over with an educated instructor) :D

Are we now discussing what Iraq is to become? OR what the USA IS???? We can be one, and help bring another to a country where either is an improvement!!!

We've NEVER been a Democracy(the media says we are however, we KNOW they NEVER get it wrong!)

As for your last paragraph; thanks for showing me(and everyone how WISE you are)
:)

[aceoky]

Also *I'm* not appealing anything(or backing it BTW) :D

I'm for(and always have been check my posts) :D ANY legal means of getting more hunters involved, for I believe our very future depends on exactly that.....

Also (wasn't gonna go there.....but)

As for mine I sit on it...... I do NOT try to think with it(so if it's "dumb"(which means unable to talk BTW) that's ok; now if only others will use their brain, and not talk out of their's , perhaps things can become civil again???

[aceoky]

Here's where MY information comes from; perhaps YOURS is better? IF so, please post it! :)

Press Release March 7, 2005
Contact: Lee McClellan (800) 852-0942.330

KDFWR Commission Sets 2005-06 Deer Seasons

Frankfort, KY, (March 7, 2005) - The Kentucky Fish and Wildlife Commission set the 2005-2006 deer hunting seasons and zones and expanded equipment use to allow crossbows during the full archery season at its quarterly meeting March 4 in Frankfort. The Fish and Wildlife Commission recommends all hunting, fishing and boating regulations for approval by the General Assembly and approves all expenditures by the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources (KDFWR).

2005-2006 Deer Seasons:

Archery/Crossbow: Statewide: September 3, 2005 - January 16, 2006

Here's the link: http://www.outdoorcentral.com/mc/pr/05/03/07a2e.asp

Now WHERE does "proposed" come into play???( I must have missed it???)

[aceoky]

The Commission approved one county zone change for the 2005-2006 seasons. Elliott County moved from Zone 2 to Zone 3. Using crossbows will be permitted during the full deer and fall turkey archery seasons. Deer bag limits remain the same as last season.

Seems *I'm* NOT the one; "talking outa anything"???

:)

[Willie]

I don't think it gets much plainer than "What do you think about the use of crossbows during archery season."

As much as crossbows have been discussed , cussed and debated anyone reading that would know exactly what was meant by it.

Tell me.. if a majority of the responders had came out against the crossbows and the pro-crossbow people were saying it was "vague" would you support the pro-crossbowers and ask that there be a meeting of sportsmen to decide what to do about it and reach a possible compromise? Hmmm?

"....(a) vague and unreliable on their face; (b) NOT considered to be scientific or conclusive of ANYTHING by those who drafted it; and (c) certainly NOT intended to be used in the fashion offered at the March 4th meeting."

The margin of error was 1.36.

Do you think the KDF&WR has money to burn on "unreliable", "inconclusive" surveys that they don't intend to use? Why would they even conduct surveys at all if not to use them?? That would be like stuffing money down a rat hole.

BTW - If the question was about the physically challenged using crossbows in archery season it would have said just that. But REALLY, why would they ask a question about something that has been legal for a decade?

[shogan]

Lets see: someone in government takes time to send me a survey.

A I think it means nothing and discard it.

B. I answer the questions but don't believe it will go anywhere. And complain when it does.

c. Answer the quesitons and hope my answers are used to help make public policy.

d. I answer the questions and if it works in my favor great if not then the survey was bogus.

[aceoky]

Lets see: someone in government takes time to send me a survey.

A I think it means nothing and discard it.

B. I answer the questions but don't believe it will go anywhere. And complain when it does.

c. Answer the quesitons and hope my answers are used to help make public policy.

d. I answer the questions and if it works in my favor great if not then the survey was bogus.

It seems some view it exactly that way! It's a shame too; all of that hard work, trying to be "fair", and still, ........

[Multidigits]

............................Tom - No, it's not to get back at you. I'll admit that I probably didn't give the issue too much thought in the original crossbow thread, but you were so damned disagreeable (i.e. I was "wrong" and you told me so) What can I say, I tried to educate you and save you the embrassment of being proven wrong in front of a room of your peers, but you wouldn't look at the data that was available to you. so who was the hard headed one??? LOL to me and everone else that questioned the wisdom of an extended crossbow season that I actually started paying attention. As I said before, there are certainly some valid points for allowing a longer crossbow season for deer. Duh! here we go again---?

However, what caused me to show up on March 4th wasn't anything you said or did, it was the reports that the commission vote was decided well before the public hearing and how quickly the Dept was acting on a decision that THEY KNEW would create a lot of dissension. You obviously knew the score b/c you made several tongue in cheek references about it being a done deal. This is what irked me more than anything. I believe that issues that are perceived as a "big deal" by sportsmen (even if you don't believe that crossbows are a big deal, many others do) should not be passed without public input. The commission serves us, not the other way around, and I was offended with some of the reasons why this item required an immediate vote.
So you took offense because iI paid attention for the 3 years or so of watching the politics of the KYDFWR. You obviosly erronously think or thought that what ever the KYDFWR did under your pal was a good as gold. Not a victory for my side on the deer numbers debate, but watching you bellyache for the last Month has been delightful. What you fail to acknowledge still today is that this meeting and the vote was standard procedure as in many ohter decision, some of them far more important than this one. But when this is decided, then you'll be gone. You won't follow the results of any other issue. And then we'll know that you told another whopper.

For example, Commish Gailor said he answered to two bosses: (1) his constituents and (2) Gov. Fletcher. On March 4th, he stated that he had to vote in line with his constituents (indicating he was going to vote against). AFter you told him that the 3d District hadn't voted on the issue, he said he was misinformed and later changed his mind and said he'd vote for it. Even if he was lied to, he had no idea what his constituents wanted, so why not table the vote for a month so that he could actually determine what his constituents thought? Again, this is a lie. Gailor recieved many calls, both for and against. He was going to vote how the Federation had voted when he was told the lie. That lie changed how he voted and showed him the extent the oppisituion was willing to go to to get this defeated. Gailor vote was a normal reaction to the chain of events. I support what he did, now and then. Because Mr. Gailor stated that he felt obliged to vote in line with his constituents, I saw immediately that the League and my Federation WERE important to the process so I joined. There is no question that Commish Gailor himself, through his comments, was responsible for the high turnout at the very next federation meeting. Wrong again, Gailor was one vote, there was 4 others that went with him. And the reports I got are even stronger then that. But thats another story. I'm not sure why, after all this, people who felt strongly about the issue wouldn't attend the meeting, but it was obvious that many, many more people opposed to the crossbows showed up at the Federation meeting and voted accordingly. After the 3d District Fed vote, I asked Mr. Gailor whether he'd reconsider his vote given the vote by his constituents, which he said was so important at the March 4th meeting. Again, you need to understand the process. a Federation vote after the fact is too late. Like crying over split milk. I heard several reports about that meeting. Gailor is an experience person who wasn't born yesterday. I don't think he was intemidated at that meeting, which I applaud. I was offended that he begged the question saying his constituents included "bird-watchers and hikers" (as though they care one way or another) and comparing this crossbow issue to segregation (in other words, I'll vote in line with my constituents but only if I want to). I would certainly be a lot less critical of the process if Commish Gailor had simply said that he understands the opposition but feels that expanding the crossbow season was good for Ky sportsmen in the long run. He didn't. Instead, he tried to dove-tail his vote into some notion that the sportsmen were behind it when all evidence was to the contrary. All this goes back to the data and the survey. Gailor and the others understand both. You don't. You can't run a big business and not show trust in your employees and stand up in a meeting and say their work is crap. doesn't work that way in the real world.

[Multidigits]

We don't need a "do you favor" survey.

We need to first scrap what was passed in March. Then we need to put the sportsmen in a room and have them develop five alternatives ranging from the old reg to the new fully expanded season.

We then take those five proposals and do a COMPARATIVE survey, where the respondents rank the five from most preferable to least preferable. You take the results and add up the points. That way, you not only learn what we prefer, you learn what we will accept and what we won't.

Wrong....the vote in March needs to stand. It's right fo Ky. and it's right for the sportsmen.

What do you say we do away with the Fall Oct. season and ask sportsmen to do what you suggest. You know the majority of the sportsmen were against the Oct. fall season and you got it passed anyway.

We don't vote on management practices in Ky., thank the lord! Imagine taking a vote on Telechek, Zone 1 permits, depradation tags, elk tags bartering, cwd regulations, game farm issues, canned hunting, etc. :confused:

[aceoky]

We don't vote on management practices in Ky., thank the lord! Imagine taking a vote on Telechek, Zone 1 permits, depradation tags, elk tags bartering, cwd regulations, game farm issues, canned hunting, etc.
__________________
Size does matter!
_________________________________________

How long before this comes up on the ballot(if we did vote)???

Should ALL hunting in KY be banned?

NOT a place I want to see US go!!!

Keep in mind "Life isn't like a box of chocolates; it's more like a jar of jalapeños;what you do today may well burn your A$$ in the morning!"
(stolen from a sig on another forum, but fits all too well here!)
:D