C-J Pro Crossbow Article

[Multidigits]

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050327/SPORTS09/503270401/1002/SPORTS

[gwhilikerz]

Good informative article. The main thing I got from it was that part about 400 UBK members. You would have thought they were a much larger organization if you listened to them talk. They claim to represent all bowhunters and yet they make up only about one-half of one percent of bowhunters. And 72 of those 400 went to a district meeting and voted overwhelmingly to reverse the commission vote. They say these 72 (or was it 70?) represent the views of all bowhunters.

That figures out to about .000847 percent of actual bowhunters if my math is correct. And they say that 72 vote is more representative of the whole than the 13% survey numbers? That truly is an elitist view. Oh well.

[Willie]

Good article..

Not quite balanced though. He could have put a few more words in form the pro-crossbow side.

Just a couple of corrections..

The crossbow has been in exuitance since at least the 4th century BC.

Not sure why the F & W boys don't have a count on crossbow kills. I know the ones I've killed down there I registered as crossbow kills.

[Multidigits]

Good article..

Not quite balanced though. He could have put a few more words in form the pro-crossbow side.

Just a couple of corrections..

The crossbow has been in exuitance since at least the 4th century BC.

Not sure why the F & W boys don't have a count on crossbow kills. I know the ones I've killed down there I registered as crossbow kills.

The Dept. considers the crossbow as archery. There's more than one up there with the opinion that all this change isn't needed now, because the crossbow is archery. I'll wait before we look at it from that direction.

At this point, all crossbow kills are in with the archery deer kills.


Willie--Here's the best part: "
Either goal is probably a long shot at best. The nine-man, governor-appointed commission sets all state game and fish regulations. It isn't above reversing one of its decisions, but it rarely does.

For one thing, the commission is typically laborious in its deliberations before voting on any wildlife issue, making certain it's biologically sound if not always popular. Plus, such a reversal would make the commission appear weak and indecisive."

I expect a renewed effort by ALL the Commissioners to stick together on the original decision. I'm sure Gary got his info from a Dept. spokesman and somone up there must believe the same thing.

[buckfever]

Good informative article. The main thing I got from it was that part about 400 UBK members. You would have thought they were a much larger organization if you listened to them talk. They claim to represent all bowhunters and yet they make up only about one-half of one percent of bowhunters. And 72 of those 400 went to a district meeting and voted overwhelmingly to reverse the commission vote. They say these 72 (or was it 70?) represent the views of all bowhunters.

That figures out to about .000847 percent of actual bowhunters if my math is correct. And they say that 72 vote is more representative of the whole than the 13% survey numbers? That truly is an elitist view. Oh well.

Your math is wrong and your facts are wrong. First, even the Dept agrees that there are more than 80,000 archers in the state. Second, the organizations which voted at the 3rd Dist Federation meeting included a few 3d district NWTF chapters, UBK, the Jefferson Sportsmen's Club and several other sportsmen organizations which aren't "bow"-related. Are you telling me that all these groups are all "elitists"?

[gwhilikerz]

No. What I am saying is that UBK has 400 or so members and they say they represent ALL bowhunters, that they know what ALL bowhunters want. I am not against the ubk, they do some very good things for hunting in Ky. But in this particular case they are wrong, or at least the leadership is wrong. If what you say is true and there are more than 80,000 bowhunters then ubk is made even more irrelevent. Why can't you guys just go about your bowhunting with your fav compound or traditional bow and let the xbowers do the same. How will an xbow hunter affect your hunt? I just don't see it.
I have never thought of hunting with a xbow until now. I am buying a xbow and all the stuff that goes with it, and I still consider myself a bowhunter. I just don't understand the "evil" of crossbows.

[buckfever]

No. What I am saying is that UBK has 400 or so members and they say they represent ALL bowhunters, that they know what ALL bowhunters want. I am not against the ubk, they do some very good things for hunting in Ky. But in this particular case they are wrong, or at least the leadership is wrong. If what you say is true and there are more than 80,000 bowhunters then ubk is made even more irrelevent. Why can't you guys just go about your bowhunting with your fav compound or traditional bow and let the xbowers do the same. How will an xbow hunter affect your hunt? I just don't see it.
I have never thought of hunting with a xbow until now. I am buying a xbow and all the stuff that goes with it, and I still consider myself a bowhunter. I just don't understand the "evil" of crossbows.

I'm not a member of UBK, but I've never heard them say they represent all of the bowhunters of the state. YOU are the one that keeps saying that.

Further, you assume that it is only the bowhunters of Kentucky that are against adding an extended season. I know a bunch of gunhunters, MLhunters, private landowners, public land hunters, and turkey hunters that don't want this.

Sure, you can label everybody else selfish and elitist if you want to, but people bitch all the time about regulations which cut against their particular pursuit. Multi mentioned that small game hunters didn't want a split deer season, b/c they didn't want the latter half of the season to overlap with the small game seasons. I didn't hear you calling the small game hunters selfish and elitists for not wanting to share the woods with the deer hunters. I didn't hear people calling the ruffed grouse hunters (and various other diff't species of game hunters) elitist and selfish for complaining about how much money was spent on elk instead of their pet game animal.

Do you think the turkey gunhunters would scream about having an early bowseason in April that opened on April 7? You bet they would. You and others have said that bowhunting has little impact on the turkey resource, so would you support it? After all, it's just another opportunity, and you can only shoot 2 birds anyhow.

How about changing the late muzzleloader season to the first week of November? Would the rifle hunters be elitists for not wanting the ML season the week before their season. It wouldn't affect the overall deer numbers (and we can only shoot 1 buck anyway), but since the new proposed season falls at an opportune time, it might attract more ML hunters. Isn't this an opportunity, and would gunhunters be elitists for fighting against it?

Politicians respond to political pressure applied by people who believe that proposed changes will adversely affect their PERSONAL experience. In this particular case, A LOT of people don't like the manner in which such an important (at least as perceived by most interested hunters) decision was passed so quickly and without meaningful discussion. Call everybody selfish if you'd like, but at the end of the day, you've got a sweeping regulation that benefits very few and is against the wishes of many.

[LoweBow]

No. What I am saying is that UBK has 400 or so members and they say they represent ALL bowhunters, that they know what ALL bowhunters want. I am not against the ubk, they do some very good things for hunting in Ky. But in this particular case they are wrong, or at least the leadership is wrong. If what you say is true and there are more than 80,000 bowhunters then ubk is made even more irrelevent. Why can't you guys just go about your bowhunting with your fav compound or traditional bow and let the xbowers do the same. How will an xbow hunter affect your hunt? I just don't see it.
I have never thought of hunting with a xbow until now. I am buying a xbow and all the stuff that goes with it, and I still consider myself a bowhunter. I just don't understand the "evil" of crossbows.

G, you know I stay out of all this trash most times, but just wanted to fix you #'s a little. 400 members is what we average year after year. We've picked up close to 100 in the last few weeks. We usually also don't mention our 13 affilliated archery clubs that amount to aprox. 600 affilliat members....so let say we're getting close to 900 or to be on the safe side.

secondly....I never have claimed to speak for all bowhunters or for any bowhunters outside of this organization. Sometimes you can't even speak for all of them, but you must speak of the "majority". I many times have to speak a certain way on a subject even if it goes against my own personal views. That is what you do when you step up and take a position in any organization that you believe in. I'll be glad when this is all over so that everyones energy can be piped towards something aimed at bringing hunters together instead of tearing them apart. Not that I buy into the "big tent" theory at all! Most times I hear big words from many that are not people of action. Be men of action and make a diff in your hunting community. If any good comes out of this it will be involvement by some that would usually sit the sidelines and take what playing time was given them. More should show they care and become involved....and not just when there is a crisis.
actually buckfever....the NWTF backed UBK last year on asking the Commission for an archery only season prior to the normal shotgun spring opener....The Commiss...said it would be too early (before the 15th) and the archers would push hens off the nest.....Then one year later the same Commiss. changed the turkey opener to the 15th and then earlier...go figure...
Mike

[Multidigits]

[QUOTE=buckfever] I'm not a member of UBK, but I've never heard them say they represent all of the bowhunters of the state. YOU are the one that keeps saying that. You need to check with Walt, he's mentioned several times that he represents the 90,000 +- bowhunters in the state. He's made that comment several times, not one. Others have too.

Further, you assume that it is only the bowhunters of Kentucky that are against adding an extended season. I know a bunch of gunhunters, MLhunters, private landowners, public land hunters, and turkey hunters that don't want this. And as the article points out, there's as many of all ranks that do want it. We're only hearing from one side now because we're in the appeal phase of the process. There's some of each, including UBK members that want it, and some that don't give a flip one way or the other.

Sure, you can label everybody else selfish and elitist if you want to, but people bitch all the time about regulations which cut against their particular pursuit. Actually, the selfish comments I've heard the most come from the Dept., from the Commission, and from one in the Sec. of Commerces dept.


Multi mentioned that small game hunters didn't want a split deer season, b/c they didn't want the latter half of the season to overlap with the small game seasons. I didn't hear you calling the small game hunters selfish and elitists for not wanting to share the woods with the deer hunters. I didn't hear people calling the ruffed grouse hunters (and various other diff't species of game hunters) elitist and selfish for complaining about how much money was spent on elk instead of their pet game animal. Shows that you haven't been involved in the process in the past. where have you been. the small game hunters have gave more than any other group in the past. they have recently decided that others need to give some too. As for grouse hunters, had you been there, you would have heard plenty of support for the elk, and plenty of guff because of the state of the grouse habitat in Eastern Ky. Still hearing it today, just not as much.

Do you think the turkey gunhunters would scream about having an early bowseason in April that opened on April 7? You bet they would. You and others have said that bowhunting has little impact on the turkey resource, so would you support it? After all, it's just another opportunity, and you can only shoot 2 birds anyhow. Bowhunters killed less than 900 turkeys last year. More get killed by cars than that. Explain how bowhunting with either weapon has an impact. Jim Lane says it doesn't. IS he wrong???

How about changing the late muzzleloader season to the first week of November? Depends on the appeal....thanks for the idea.

Would the rifle hunters be elitists for not wanting the ML season the week before their season. It wouldn't affect the overall deer numbers (and we can only shoot 1 buck anyway), but since the new proposed season falls at an opportune time, it might attract more ML hunters. Isn't this an opportunity, and would gunhunters be elitists for fighting against it? We'll ask and see. that week is a good one for buck movemnet, and I think would be very popular with all gun hunters. We'll work on the possibility if the appeal works for you.

Politicians respond to political pressure applied by people who believe that proposed changes will adversely affect their PERSONAL experience. In this particular case, A LOT of people don't like the manner in which such an important (at least as perceived by most interested hunters) decision was passed so quickly and without meaningful discussion. Call everybody selfish if you'd like, but at the end of the day, you've got a sweeping regulation that benefits very few and is against the wishes of many Politicians also have allies, as do commission members. When you call the Commission crooks and liars and cheats, then you hit far further than just the Commission. For example, the Govenor selects the man to sit, so your saying he's a crook to because he picked him. On the other hand they are selected to make the tuff decisions. Thats what they did, based on the data and info at hand and whats better for the whole, not a select group of after the fact cry babies. bring on the appeal, we'll be ready.

[Dalebow]

Ok for you people who were not there and keep spouting crap ( gwili ) UBK did not vote at the meeting, we have been a voice to let everyone know what is going on but we did not vote at the meeting, we don't need to, as the sportsman of Ky hear about this their opioion is being heard. These are Ky sportsman, unlike half of the people here spouting crap that don't even live here.

You may continue to bash UBK if you don't like us, that's your opinion and your entitiled to it, but at least get the facts right. And as I said before the majority will not pay fees or join a group until it affects them but I can say this UBK has backed the archery in the schools program from day one and hunters for the hungry among numerous other things that benefit Ky. We may not be large but we are effective and put our time where our mouth is.

Dale

[gwhilikerz]

LoweBow thank you for straightening me out on the numbers.

[gwhilikerz]

Dale there are not enough hours in the week to put your time where your mouth is. You are way too emotional about this issue and it is doing no good at all for your group. Maybe you should rethink your position? For starters tell me why you think x-bows will affect your hunting in any way whatsoever. I still don't see why all the gloom and doom over hunters getting more time in the woods.

[Willie]

I still don't see why all the gloom and doom over hunters getting more time in the woods.

It is much ado about nothing.

A year after the crossbows are legalized 95% of the people will say " Why did we fight amongst ourselves to keep these guys out?"

The other 5% will still be pouting...

[Dalebow]

Willie

Let me ask you this, why don't we make it hunting season from sept 3-jan15 and you use whatever you want, since there are bag limits it won't matter if you shoot your buck in sept with a rifle or an x-bow or a recurve will it.

[Willie]

Sounds like you are trying to use mis-direction in this little debate.

No one advocated a "free for all" hunting season.

I do believe that the archery season and the firearm season should be seperate.

BUT - Crossbows ARE archery equipment.

[Dalebow]

bows are pulled and released, crossbows are cocked, crossbows are not archery equipment, even in mid evil times (read some history books) they were not counted with archers, actually they were disliked and looked at as a means to poach, I won't go that far because if I were poaching a silenced 222 would be the ticket, but they are NOT BOWS, no matter how much you print it in bold.

An elite bowhunter/devil deer, Dale

[Dalebow]

Even Fish and Wildlige don't call them archery equipment they say you can use them during archery, big difference. If not a gun that's cocked then why a crossbow during the archry season???????????

[Multidigits]

Even Fish and Wildlige don't call them archery equipment they say you can use them during archery, big difference. If not a gun that's cocked then why a crossbow during the archry season???????????

You might want to retract that statement. Seems that there is an opinion out there contrary to what you say--and within the Dept.

[Willie]

bows are pulled and released, crossbows are cocked, crossbows are not archery equipment, even in mid evil times (read some history books) they were not counted with archers, actually they were disliked and looked at as a means to poach, I won't go that far because if I were poaching a silenced 222 would be the ticket, but they are NOT BOWS, no matter how much you print it in bold.


Willie - I asked you what a "real bow" to you was. You never answered. Please tell us what a "real bow" is that you believe everyone should shoot and hunt with.

Corrections on "crossbows are not archery equipment" - There are many, many BOWHUNTING groups that don't call crossbows archery. Why? To protect their own little playground.

In the majority of the world the answer would be yes, they are archery equipment.

Only in the United States do you get some backwards bowhunting organizations and individuals that don't think that. Of course they are attempting to "protect their own".

THE NAA - the OLDEST archery organization have recognized crossbows for about 60 years. The International Bowhunters Organization has had a crossbow division for several years AND growing every year. THE NFAA now recognizes crossbows at its VEGAS championships. Atlantic City had crossbow divisions for years, that shoot was recently acquired by the NFAA, but its crossbow division is several decades old.

The Archery Trade Association and its predecessor, the Archery Manufacturers Organization recognizes crossbows as archery equipment.

So does most retail dealers- almost every shop that sells archery equipment and guns have crossbows in the archery department, not the firearm counter. Go into Bass Pro or Cabela’s or Dicks OR EVEN UNCLE LEE'S and see where the crossbows are kept. Hint - walk right on past the firearms department.

Every archery catalog I get from the retailers has crossbows in it. Bow and Arrow Magazine carries crossbow advertising.

Now with compound bows - The International Olympic Committee doesn't recognize compounds as archery equipment. The PAN AMERICAN games don't recognize compounds as archery equipment. Neither does some of those ultra elitist, head up the butt, groups like Comptons. The Comptons' Vice President called compounds "Machines". Isn't that something? Maybe he doesn't think they are "real bows". What do you think?

Why have crossbows been welcomed at NAA sanctioned shoots many years longer then the compound bow? Hmm?

Several European countries don’t recognize any archery gear for hunting purpose. Thanks to bowhunters in England that complained that the crossbows were “inhumane” After a government study they ended up banning all archery hunting as “inhumane”.

I don't think we want to head down that path..

A crossbow propels an arrow from the fastly forward moving string powered by a set of bent limbs. The trajectory of the arrow is VERY similar. On the end of that arrow is the same broadhead that you can shoot. It kills that deer from lung collapse and blood loss.

Sounds like archery to me.

[Dalebow]

Willie

You asked me what a bow was on the LKS thread not this one, but I'll answer it agian very simple: You don't cock a bow:-)

An elite bowhunter/devil deer, Dale

[gwhilikerz]

Willie

You asked me what a bow was on the LKS thread not this one, but I'll answer it agian very simple: You don't cock a bow:-)

An elite bowhunter/devil deer, Dale
Dalebow, what bow do you shoot?

[Walt K]

I like Multi's "You might want to retract that statement. Seems that there is an opinion out there contrary to what you say--and within the Dept." Yeah, there's a lot of opinions, kind of like bellybuttons, everybody has one. I've tried to stay off this thread,..but 'ol worm..er I mean Tom wants to keep his personal attack on Walt...too funny little man. Show me where I ever said I represent the bowhunters of the state...that's a good one. I've said UBK tries to represent the GENERAL consensus of the bowhunters by keeping our ears open and listening to the majority of what bowhunters are thinking. And I like the part about 'some commissioners said..." , so what..I'm not standing up for a popularity contest. Well, a commissioner told me he thought you were an "idiot" ,,so what..it's just OPINIONS..maybe you're not.. who knows?
You and your cronies can bash the UBK all you want..maybe you'll bash Trout Unlimited next..seems like you could label them elitists as well. But I hope that the united crossgun hunters of kentucky do more with their money than their mouth and donate some real money to some worthy causes like the UBK does. Otherwise others might wonder what you're really about...and what you're doing with the money. Our money is open to public records. We've donate thousands of dollars over the years to worthy programs like NASP and Ky. Hunters for the Hungry, and the U.S. Sportsmen Alliance, in fact, we give them $500 annually, each and every year. You crossbow guys ready to step up to that plate...or are you just going to enjoy the free ride and take and take and take?

[Multidigits]

I like Multi's "You might want to retract that statement. Seems that there is an opinion out there contrary to what you say--and within the Dept." Yeah, there's a lot of opinions, kind of like bellybuttons, everybody has one. I've tried to stay off this thread,..but 'ol worm..er I mean Tom wants to keep his personal attack on Walt...too funny little man. Show me where I ever said I represent the bowhunters of the state...that's a good one. I've said UBK tries to represent the GENERAL consensus of the bowhunters by keeping our ears open and listening to the majority of what bowhunters are thinking. And I like the part about 'some commissioners said..." , so what..I'm not standing up for a popularity contest. Well, a commissioner told me he thought you were an "idiot" ,,so what..it's just OPINIONS..maybe you're not.. who knows?
You and your cronies can bash the UBK all you want..maybe you'll bash Trout Unlimited next..seems like you could label them elitists as well. But I hope that the united crossgun hunters of kentucky do more with their money than their mouth and donate some real money to some worthy causes like the UBK does. Otherwise others might wonder what you're really about...and what you're doing with the money. Our money is open to public records. We've donate thousands of dollars over the years to worthy programs like NASP and Ky. Hunters for the Hungry, and the U.S. Sportsmen Alliance, in fact, we give them $500 annually, each and every year. You crossbow guys ready to step up to that plate...or are you just going to enjoy the free ride and take and take and take?

What you said and it can be proven by looking in the past posts is that you represent the 90,000 bowhunters of the state, not some of them or any other crap you want to invent now. You said it and it's not the first time. We'll see how the commissioners feel come April 22, even the one who thinks I'm an idiot. When an attorney makes a statement of fact, it's not really an opinion any more.

You keep bringing fishing into it, think that's getting you anywhere??? LOL

UBK is no doubt a great org., it's just the few hard heads in the group that's running it down making stupid statements and such. Disregarding valuable opinions like the one that Glen P. threw out is one example. When you loose the appeal, you can look in the mirror and say thatnks dumb a$$.

UCBK will spend it's money wisely. Crossbow manufacturers already pay the same excise taxes that the bow makers pay and some of that is used in the AIS projects as well. The crossbow manufactureres will pay their fair share, you can count on it. Especially when this is passed and business booms from all the new sales. :D

[gwhilikerz]

Walt K Exactly how much did UBK give to all these worthy causes in the first 2 weeks of UBK existance? We crossbow hunters are every bit as concerned about those things as other hunters. Heck we are those other hunters.

[Willie]

Willie

You asked me what a bow was on the LKS thread not this one, but I'll answer it agian very simple: You don't cock a bow:-)

An elite bowhunter/devil deer, Dale

You didn't answer the question there or here either.

fess up...

[Dalebow]

Willie

I shoot recurves, longbows, selfbows, laminated longbows, colt 1911, 300 magnums, 3006, 270, 308, 357, 44, 45c, 22, 12g, 20g, 50cal, 45cal, what is your point, I shoot everything and quite well I might add. Crossbows are ot bows, never will be, no matter if ya want them in the season or not and since it's about percieved money probably will stay in the season but that doesn't make it right.

An elite bowhunter/devil deer, Dale

[Dalebow]

Multi

Iam much closer to you than Walt, why don't we meet and you can call me dumb $#%$ to my face:-) Seems you are letting a personal problem affect your judgement, I am making sure the commish sees your comments as well, oh,sorry they already have:-) You really are a fat, old blowhard full of hot air! I agree with one thing though UBk is a great organization:-)

An Elite Bowhunter/devil deer, Dale

[Dalebow]

Multi

Now I remember who you remind me of, Hillary Clinton, so from now on I will address you as Mrs. Clinton, Or maybe Hillary, or something like that, I will have to think on that on, it gets to be so much fun when you start making it personal doesn't it.

The elite devil deer, Dale

[Multidigits]

Multi

Now I remember who you remind me of, Hillary Clinton, so from now on I will address you as Mrs. Clinton, Or maybe Hillary, or something like that, I will have to think on that on, it gets to be so much fun when you start making it personal doesn't it.

The elite devil deer, Dale

Cute, your a tribute to the UBK. Seems someone in power would put a muzzle on you before you damage their cause, but that's their business. :rolleyes:

[kybowhunter1963]

This is so sad....all of this over something that in the long run will probably not even be a blip on the radar screen 10 years from now....I could be wrong...but oh well!!

[gwhilikerz]

Cute, your a tribute to the UBK. Seems someone in power would put a muzzle on you before you damage their cause, but that's their business. :rolleyes:
multi this is one time I hope they don't use that muzzle. Dalebow may never know how much help he truly is.

[gwhilikerz]

Multi

Now I remember who you remind me of, Hillary Clinton, so from now on I will address you as Mrs. Clinton, Or maybe Hillary, or something like that, I will have to think on that on, it gets to be so much fun when you start making it personal doesn't it.

The elite devil deer, Dale
Yep like always, when an clear arguement can't be made then pull out personal insults and name calling. That always works (yeah right).
I notice you don't shoot a compound dalebow, or did I miss that in your post? and yes I am fishing. I'm trying to see where you are coming from.

[globemountain]

Willie

I shoot recurves, longbows, selfbows, laminated longbows, colt 1911, 300 magnums, 3006, 270, 308, 357, 44, 45c, 22, 12g, 20g, 50cal, 45cal, what is your point, I shoot everything and quite well I might add. Crossbows are ot bows, never will be, no matter if ya want them in the season or not and since it's about percieved money probably will stay in the season but that doesn't make it right.

An elite bowhunter/devil deer, Dale From Websters Dictionary: cross·bow http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?crossb07.wav=crossbow'))
Pronunciation: -"bO
Function: noun
: a weapon for discharging quarrels and stones that consists chiefly of a short bow mounted crosswise (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=crosswise) near the end of a stock

[Al]

Does this Dalebow represent the mentality and attitude of the UBK? They seem like a militant extremist group judging from the posts from its supporters. If there are any level headed members or leaders out there you should speak out before your reputation goes further down the crapper, at least in the eyes of the readers of this web site. And by looking at the number of reads that is quite a few people.

[LoweBow]

Cute, your a tribute to the UBK. Seems someone in power would put a muzzle on you before you damage their cause, but that's their business. :rolleyes:

Sounds like you two have a personal problem. Take it somewhere else please. If half the effort to make each other look bad was spent on something possitive we'd be making some progress.
Dale is not the spokesperson for UBK on this site. IF anyoneone is.....that would be me since the Prez. doesn't post. I've made my feelings on this whole matter public and the feelings of the "majority" of members.
In all organizations you will have members that do or do not agree w/ others. To say you have 100% agreement will most likely never happen on controversial subjects.
Glenn P is a personel friend of mine and will remain one weather crossbows are used in KY or not. His opinion like all opinions of the members of UBK are valued. UBK like any other organization belongs to the membership. I was told by someone when I joined UBK 3 years ago that if I didn't like the way things were being run......step up and get involved. Well....I did. There ARE changes in this organization that are taking place for the better. IMO and when this damn crossbow issue is put to rest there will be more. I've been spending a ton of time on the phone over the last few weeks (imagine that?) talking w/ bowhunters and UBK members all over the state. Ideas of making UBK stronger and more community involved and more respected are being gathered and some will def. be emplimented if I have any say so. It's no secret that UBK has been floundering over the past few years. Not a secret in the least. That is one of the reasons I became involved and am asking more to do the same. New blood is needed. Openminded "outside the box" thinking to generate membership, involvement, and respect.
This is nothing new to any outdoors organization as it was just recently the same issue w/ LOKS. The same old people who make up 2% of the membership do 99% of the work while all the others sit back and b!tch about decisisions that were made and how ole' so-in-so is doing a p!ss poor job. (we've all heard it) Like I said...it happens w/ many organizations. Step up and wear a hat and you'll see it for yourself firsthand. Changes are afoot they were just derailed and posponed during this crisis.

Would I go as far as saying Dale needs a muzzle.....no, but a harness would be nice. :rolleyes: If that kind of energy and enthusiasm can be harnessed and directed towards something positive and worthwhile it would be better utilized. :mad:
Come see me in a year and we'll update you on the progress UBK has made. I"ll guarentee you it'll be a diff. organization than what you've seen in the past! :)

Mike Whelan, Jr.
UBK Vice Prez.

[Willie]

This is so sad....all of this over something that in the long run will probably not even be a blip on the radar screen 10 years from now....I could be wrong...but oh well!!

I think you are 110% correct.....it has been proven out time and time agian..

[Willie]

lowebow -"New blood is needed."

Then I would suggest that you embrace the crossbowers, as it is the future of bowhunting, just like compounders were back in the early 70s.

If this goes through and the United Crossbowhunters of Kentucky takes off there will be TWO bowhunting organizations representing bowhunters in this state - albeit the two groups will be shooting and hunting with two different pieces of archery equipment.

Who will be the top dog ten years down the road? Only time will tell, but if the UBK welcomed ALL other archers into the fold it might make a difference.

"new blood..."

[LoweBow]

Does this Dalebow represent the mentality and attitude of the UBK? They seem like a militant extremist group judging from the posts from its supporters. If there are any level headed members or leaders out there you should speak out before your reputation goes further down the crapper, at least in the eyes of the readers of this web site. And by looking at the number of reads that is quite a few people.

Sorry Al...I posted that last thread right after you. We are not militant or extremist in any way. I just really don't have the time to stay on the "net" all day and police all the nay sayers or self destructive members of this or any of the organizations I belong to. My wife thinks I spend way toooooooooooooo much time involved in outdoors projects, fundraisers, and activities as it is. Babysitting the internet is just one thing I don't have time for anymore.
Thanks for your concern though.
Mike

[Multidigits]

Sounds like you two have a personal problem. Take it somewhere else please. If half the effort to make each other look bad was spent on something possitive we'd be making some progress.
Dale is not the spokesperson for UBK on this site. IF anyoneone is.....that would be me since the Prez. doesn't post. I've made my feelings on this whole matter public and the feelings of the "majority" of members.
In all organizations you will have members that do or do not agree w/ others. To say you have 100% agreement will most likely never happen on controversial subjects.
Glenn P is a personel friend of mine and will remain one weather crossbows are used in KY or not. His opinion like all opinions of the members of UBK are valued. UBK like any other organization belongs to the membership. I was told by someone when I joined UBK 3 years ago that if I didn't like the way things were being run......step up and get involved. Well....I did. There ARE changes in this organization that are taking place for the better. IMO and when this damn crossbow issue is put to rest there will be more. I've been spending a ton of time on the phone over the last few weeks (imagine that?) talking w/ bowhunters and UBK members all over the state. Ideas of making UBK stronger and more community involved and more respected are being gathered and some will def. be emplimented if I have any say so. It's no secret that UBK has been floundering over the past few years. Not a secret in the least. That is one of the reasons I became involved and am asking more to do the same. New blood is needed. Openminded "outside the box" thinking to generate membership, involvement, and respect.
This is nothing new to any outdoors organization as it was just recently the same issue w/ LOKS. The same old people who make up 2% of the membership do 99% of the work while all the others sit back and b!tch about decisisions that were made and how ole' so-in-so is doing a p!ss poor job. (we've all heard it) Like I said...it happens w/ many organizations. Step up and wear a hat and you'll see it for yourself firsthand. Changes are afoot they were just derailed and posponed during this crisis.

Would I go as far as saying Dale needs a muzzle.....no, but a harness would be nice. :rolleyes: If that kind of energy and enthusiasm can be harnessed and directed towards something positive and worthwhile it would be better utilized. :mad:
Come see me in a year and we'll update you on the progress UBK has made. I"ll guarentee you it'll be a diff. organization than what you've seen in the past! :)

Mike Whelan, Jr.
UBK Vice Prez.

Mike with all due respect to you and the way you've presented your side of it, Dale is a spokesman for the UBK, and this is a crossbow forum. We haven't gone into the archery section and agitated anyone over the changes. Dale continues to come in here to raise cane. Most of his posts are without facts and without much thought, and seem to be only looking for argument or personal attacks. Yes, your group needs to muzzle him from using your name, not from posting his opinion. when he talks of how great the UBK is, then he also has to hear about the shortcomings. We believe the non-tolerance stance is a short coming. If you want to preach the elitism crap, do it in the archery forum and we'll let you have it all you want.

I couldn't agree more on the work involved in keeping a club moving in the right direction. It's a tremendous under taking for those few involved. All organizations have growing pains and staying alive pains. I'm sure the UBK will survive for many years to come. I've always wondered why they didn't try to merge with the other groups and live up to their UNITED name sake? Who knows, maybe some day we can all be one in the same instead of fighting tooth and nail just to exsist. But that's the idea that Glen threw out there and was rejected. I'd still be willing to consider it for a unified org. whne and if your ready?

[LoweBow]

Willie, it's actually not that easy. The bylaws put in place will not allow crossbows until either the Dept. changes the description of legal "archery equipment" or the bylaws are changed. (which takes one hell of a vote.)
Like many things when dealing w/ any organization....what sounds nice and easy usually isn't. Changes take personal attention, time, committment, and hard assed work. All must be weighed into personel life, family, church, work and the list goes on......


Article 2: OBJECTIVES It is the purpose of United Bowhunters of Kentucky: A. That by reason of choice, members must have a keen interest in hunting with bowhunting equipment. B. To share with others their experiences, knowledge, and shooting skills. C. To be a conscientious bowhunter, promoting bowhunting by working to elevate its standards and the standards of those who practice the art of bowhunting. D. To provide training for others in safety, shooting skills, and hunting techniques. E. To practice the wise use of our natural resources, the conservation of our wild game and the preservation of the natural habitat thereof.

Article 3: MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS Membership shall be granted to a person who: A. Has satisfactorily completed a membership application. B. Uses legal archery equipment. C. Has made full payment of membership fees. D. Has stated that they are in agreement with all articles of these bylaws. E. Application has been accepted by the Executive Council. F. Who has adopted the rules of fair chase and the code of ethics prescribed by the organization.

Mike

[Al]

Lowebow, thanks for the response. I think if xbow is allowed in early season then you will see many of your membership espessially in the 50 plus age group switching over. I am 46 and am already feeling the effects of many yrs of pulling and holding back a compound, on my wrists and shoulder. I am very excited at the prospects of using a xbow as I am sure many of your members are weather they express it or not.
It would be wise of you not to alienate the Xbow users for the future of your organization. It could bring support and numbers to your org. I wouldnt be suprised if your numbers wouldnt swell due to seniors and gun hunters joining you. Other wise I predict your numbers declining and UCBK swelling.

Al
____________________________
They can take my crossbow when they pry it from my cold dead fingers!

[Willie]

"B. Uses legal archery equipment."

Lots of wiggle room in that one..

If a member uses a crossbow is he ex-communicated?

So if crossbows are legalized they will be OK for members to use?

Do you have handicapped members that use crossbows now?

[Dalebow]

Multi

Funny how you call walt a dumb $#$ and attack me and then cry to Mike about putting a muzzle on me. I think you can't stand the fact that someone will give you the same crap you dish out. I may be a member of UBK but my reponses to your crap is my own, I only bring UBK up when you or one of your buddies post garbage. I think you are the king of personal attacks, especially on Walt and Jerry. SO if you can't take it shut up and I'll leave you alone, but when you call someone I know and like names then I believe in loyalty.

We have always believed in crossbow use for elderly and disabled hunters and will always support that.

An elite bowhunter/devil deer, Dale

[Dalebow]

gwili

sorry about your question no I don't shoot compounds. I have shot them but not hunted with them. I personally don't like the mechanics or weight of one. I love the stick and string. I limit my shots to no more than 20-25 yards if all conditions are right, such as a unalarmed animal, most of my shots ar 15yards or less. I admire compound shooters because they can with practice take animals at twice my range. I gun hunt when I want to use sights. One must draw a compund and hold it until the shot is taken and to me that qualifies it as a bow. I don't care what someone uses during the season for that weapon, but to me you shouldnt use a muzzleloader during bow season, a gun during bow season or a crossbow with a scope during bow season. remember F&W until now never allowed the drawlock or the scope on a bow.

Dale

[Duster]

Dale.... Think about your last post. No other weapons when archery season is open. You just by the fact archery season is open from Sept thru Jan stated there should be no muzzleloader season, no modern firearm season, no crossbow season, no youth firearm. No other hunters period in the woods after deer except archery hunters.

[Dalebow]

NO your wrong, having all those seasons if fine, allowing bowhunting during them is fine, bowhunter numbers are much less and don't affect gun or muzzleloader hunters, If you want to use xbows during gun season or muzzloader season that would be fine with me, but when only a bowhunter can be in the woods is when I oppose x-bows.


Dale

[gwhilikerz]

NO your wrong, having all those seasons if fine, allowing bowhunting during them is fine, bowhunter numbers are much less and don't affect gun or muzzleloader hunters, If you want to use xbows during gun season or muzzloader season that would be fine with me, but when only a bowhunter can be in the woods is when I oppose x-bows.


Dale
Maybe only a rifle-shotgun-mz should be allowed during firearms season? Only mz during muzzle loaders during that season. only xbows during the old xbow season. maybe an exclusive 1 month season for each type weapon and a weapon specific tag?
I don't think there is a hunter out there who would agree with this type of hunting schedule. But I've been wrong before. Hey I thought bowhunters wouldn't mind x bows in "their" season, which is now the whole deer hunting season.

[Dalebow]

We do mind:-)

An elite bowhunter, Dale

[gwhilikerz]

We do mind:-)

An elite bowhunter, Dale
We do? I've been a bowhunter for many years and I assure you I don't mind. In fact I think it is a great idea and a long time coming.

[Multidigits]

Multi

Funny how you call walt a dumb $#$ and attack me and then cry to Mike about putting a muzzle on me. I think you can't stand the fact that someone will give you the same crap you dish out. I may be a member of UBK but my reponses to your crap is my own, I only bring UBK up when you or one of your buddies post garbage. I think you are the king of personal attacks, especially on Walt and Jerry. SO if you can't take it shut up and I'll leave you alone, but when you call someone I know and like names then I believe in loyalty.

We have always believed in crossbow use for elderly and disabled hunters and will always support that.

An elite bowhunter/devil deer, Dale

Your comments are considered the UBK stance, being that your a UBK Director. Ask Walt how it works, that's why he whined and got out of Cyberhunters because he couldn't figure it out differently. Either way it makes good reading to show the true colors of what we're up against.