UBK Working to Reverse XBOW decision

[gwhilikerz]

Ok this is important. I know that things are just now beginning to cool down and the anti-xbow guys are making nice. But I just found out this is a smoke screen. I just received a PM and an e-mail informing me that the UBK is working overtime behind the scenes (read covert) to get the new xbow rule changed. Please don't allow an organization that is only 500 strong sway the commissioner into a special meeting or whatever they have in mind.
Call your commissioner and ask him to stand by the new rule allowing xbows during archery season. Let's do this in a respectful manner. Guys this ain't over!

[Ispinfish]

Yes I can confirm that UBK, and others are working to get the crossbow rule overturned. If they do it will be because the majority spoke up and asked for it.
AGAIN.. the meeting that this was discussed at was not properly called. The issue was disguised as a discussion of the Crossbow Survey not as a change in the Archery regulations to INCLUDE Crossbows. Normal procedure in the past has been to notify the Conservation Organizations in the state of any changes WELL before the agenda and the rules change is discussed. This was not done. The sportsmen and women of the state deserve to have the issue decided by them, not by the biologists or anyone else. We do however need the input of these men.
The people involved in this are concerned for the resources, and the tradition.
Ohio has proven that the crossbow changes the dynamic makeup of the Archery component. We currently are investing quite a bit of money on a NATIONALLY recognized Archery in schools program. Why do this if the easy to use and easy to hunt with Crossbow is going to be allowed? Ohio has shown no real growth in Archery, while at the same time the Crossbow users now outnumber them and kill more deer.
The Courier Journal today posted the results from the Crossbow Survey.
Someone reported on here MORE than 50% were strongly for this issue.. According to the Courier that is an error.
"Of the 4,444 respondents, 40.8 percent said they were "strongly" OR "somewhat supportive" and 28.3 percent were "strongly" or "somewhat" opposed." From the Courier 3-6-05[U]
This means 30.1 percent had no real opinion... this indicates that the public did not know what they wanted to do and needed more information. This is hardly the RINGING endorsement that Digits and whilikerz would have us believe is behind this issue.
You know where I stand on this so I wont bother.
However I want to KNOW what lie the UBK told at the commission meeting.
You are right this is not over. The hunters of the state do not like the way this rule change was passed and they want another look taken at the issue.
Jim Dicken
Please notice I have not called anyone a liar, or full of crap, or stated any negative information about any person or organization... I am sure this will be spun in some negative way.

[Ispinfish]

I would like to float a Trial Balloon to both sides here.
There seems to be 2 sides to this.. that both want to hunt.
One side wants to preserve the traditions of the sport of archery which some feel should include the challenge of drawing the bow without the game knowing, and those who want the ease of use of Crossbow.
UBK wants to preserve the Archery In Schools program and to encourage Bow Archery, and others want to make sure that there is no real change in the current Deer Status Quo.
How about this compromise...
Archers get September through November for Archery... exclusively.
Crossbows can be used from December 1, to the end of the season.. approximately 6 weeks. Archers can still hunt at that time, but we get a season that promotes both Archery with its current traditions and another season to promote Crossbows as a tool of harvest.
It seems both sides win here.
Archers and Archery Equipment still are exclusive for 3 months .. which promotes their use to deer hunters who want to hunt from Sept - November...
Then Crossbow is allowed.. Giving an opportunity for sale and use of a somewhat new weapon for Kentucky hunters but still encouraging the traditional method of hunting...
Everyone Wins... Less devisiveness.. we all go home happy?
After all we just need to get along dont we?

[bunniebuster]

dont see a thing wrong with the way it is now why dont everyone let it go get over it and quit crying and fighting

[LoweBow]

Attention!!!!! This is really important!!!!
I would be remiss in my duties if I were to not do everything in my power to not strictly follow the UBK mission statement!!!!!
"Preserve, Protect, and Promote bowhunting"
You give us WAY too much credit!!! You really think all this stink has been raised by the UBK membership? It's the sportsmen and women of Kentucky who have raised such a fuss over this. Yes please call your Commishioners.
Mike Whelan
UBK Vice Prez.

[Riverwolf]

LOL WillykerzX Yeah, call your commisioners, that works:rolleyes:

Your about a doofus old man, If you think an overturn wasn't in the works the day Gailor screwed the bowhunters your sadly mistaken, I heard seveal of the guys in the lobby area regrouping right after judas made his decision.

A sign of a great organization, don't throw up your arms and give up, keep fighting for what you belive is right. Pay attention WillykerzX you might still learn something in your old age.

[westkybanded]

Can't they even give this a year to see???

[Duster]

Ispinfish..... A few questions on your proposel.

Archers get Sept thru Nov for archery exclusively

Would this mean no Early muzzleloader season ? No modern firearm season in Nov ? No youth weekend hunts with firearm ? Would this be a attempt to get all firearm hunting out of the rut ?

[Bowcrazy]

Spin Fish's first post on this thread is a good summary. Most of Kentucky's (a) 90,000, (b) 100,000 (c) 80,000 (d) 60,000 - take your choice of numbers...most of Kentucky's bowhunters are just now being made aware of what happened to them. I would suggest that anyone who thinks this is limited to 400-500 people needs a reality check.

This is going to create a firestorm across this state and what you have seen so far on this site is just a very small portion of what is to come. So get used to it or don't choose to read these threads.

This is certainly a very legitimate subject for continued discussion on this site as the recent action by the commission, if it goes into effect, would serve to end bow season as we know it in Kentucky. If you do not want to read about this or take part in the discussion, do not click on a thread that has crossbow in the title. The rest of us are certainly not thru discussing this, we are just starting.

I do not think a 2-hour program on WHAS is exactly covert.

[joekat46]

Your using a false premise "ispin". To say Ohio has had no growth in archery is totally false. In the 20 plus years the xbow has been legal season long the number of deer hunters and deer harvest has increased dramatically in Ohio again setting new records in 2004 for both bow (all bows) and gun. The new Ohio hunters do appear to be chosing the xbow over the traditional (if you want to call the compound traditional) archery equipment. It hasn't hurt a thing in Ohio, it won't hurt a thing in KY, but the ranks in KY have now been so divided it will, at some point, come back to bite you KY boys in the butt. I watched this start with a sort of neutral attitude since I never have owned a xbow but now am firmly in the pro xbow camp. I just don't like bullies and the anti xbow group is full of them.

I stayed off this forum from about 2 days before the big vote until now hoping things would settle down. What a surprise to come back over and see this crap is still going on.

[Old Oak]

Crossbows are here to stay.
Sorry but UBK is just trying to keep Xbows out of the woods due to selfishness. They feel like this will cause more pressure and have an effect on THEIR season.

To call Archery season TRADITIONAL? What is traditional about a new Bowtech bow with overdraw, carbon arrows and shooting in excess of 320fps?

As you can see with Ispin's little idea...they want to have the woods to themselves during pre-rut and rut.

Crossbows are gonna add some hunters to the field to take advantage of our wonderful resource in a good deer population. It will not have any ill effects on herd dynamics.

[woodsnwater]

It will not have any ill effects on herd dynamics.

Exactly. And that's what is most important. I have no opinion on any other aspect of this discussion. Sorry for the intrusion. ;)

[skin_dog1]

I don't think Ispin meamt that you would move ML or rifle season. What he intended was the seasons would remain the same until dec 1 when you would be able to also use a xbow until the end of the season. Inother words, everything remains the same as last season except xbows recieve approx 4 more weeks(they already have 1 week, plus gun and ml'seasons). In essence you are doubling the amount of time they are allowed to legally use their equipment. This sounds like a great idea to me, and from the sound of it would've probably been accepted had it been presented at the meeting.

[Duster]

Better say what you mean and mean what you say.

[DW]

Divide and conquer. Some never learn. Very sad.

[Multidigits]

It's my understanding that the push is to BYPASS the Commission and go over their head to the Gov and Legislature or Mr. Host of Commerce. Hard to imagine a group like the UBK who has helped with Commission decisions many times now showing disrespect by doing an end run around them. Folks, wheather you like the change or not, the Commission process has been in place for many years, Tried and tested, it's better than using what some other states use. To have the legilatur and Gov decide are deer seasons is asking for serious trouble. for example, three young men died this week from a car wreck caused by a deer. Let's say the legislature decides there are too many deer in that area and has a spring or summer deer reduction slaughter. Think hard before you make those calls being urged by the bow group and the Louisville Lip on WHAS 84.If someone in an official position finds any untruth in this post and can send me where my info is wrong, I'll be more than happy to delete this post.

[12 pointer]

for all those who have not decided what to get me for christmas...................................I'll take a new excaliber! :) just hunt with what you choose and worry about yourself. :D

[H-Digger]

Skindog, I sent you an email, I have my own secure website where we don't have the problems an BS that floats over here.

come on son, we're waiting for ya.

[Multidigits]

UBK was not interested in a compromise. And none was offered. To late now to do that anyway.


H-digger--with all due respect to you, I know your against this change, but others aren't. This site is the best because it doesn't censor or slam the door on anyone. If you fellows want you own site go for it....wait, why not just use the Bowsite. Using the word pro-crossbow there will get you the boot.

[ceohunter]

It isn't going to happen guys. Xbows are here to stay!

[H-Digger]

I didn't invite anyone else, yethttp://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/hippy.gif

The only place you'll see me on here again will be the bbbc section, there are some great guys on here, and I'll miss talking to you and sharing info,but the fog is thick in here and I don't know who I trust .http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/moody1.gif

[Multidigits]

You've got the best smiley faces I've ever seen....how do you do it?

[Willie]

IspinFish -"Of the 4,444 respondents, 40.8 percent said they were "strongly" OR "somewhat supportive" and 28.3 percent were "strongly" or "somewhat" opposed." From the Courier 3-6-05[U]

This means 30.1 percent had no real opinion... this indicates that the public did not know what they wanted to do and needed more information.......”

Willie - That also means that 12% more wanted crossbows than didn’t.

Thanks for sharing that with us..

To not have a “real opinion” does not necessarily mean they are not informed. We had a bunch of people on here that were very well informed and said they didn’t care one way or the other.

The fact that “40.8 percent said they were "strongly" OR "somewhat supportive” is HUGE in any survey.

Remember one thing - these are Kentucky sportsmen and women that answered the survey and not just the bowhunters who are attempting to protect what they consider as “their season”. Of course no one owns any particular time of the year to hunt. It is up to the people we have hired to make those decisions as to who can hunt when.

The process worked as intended.

You fellers are setting a very dangerous precedent by involving politicians in game management..

[Willie]

Your using a false premise "ispin". To say Ohio has had no growth in archery is totally false. In the 20 plus years the xbow has been legal season long the number of deer hunters and deer harvest has increased dramatically in Ohio again setting new records in 2004 for both bow (all bows) and gun. The new Ohio hunters do appear to be chosing the xbow over the traditional (if you want to call the compound traditional) archery equipment. It hasn't hurt a thing in Ohio, it won't hurt a thing in KY, but the ranks in KY have now been so divided it will, at some point, come back to bite you KY boys in the butt. I watched this start with a sort of neutral attitude since I never have owned a xbow but now am firmly in the pro xbow camp. I just don't like bullies and the anti xbow group is full of them.

I stayed off this forum from about 2 days before the big vote until now hoping things would settle down. What a surprise to come back over and see this crap is still going on.

For the mis-informed about Ohio and crossbows...

Ohio first allowed crossbows in archery season in 1976. That year, the season ran from October 8 through January 22. From a total deer harvest (all weapons) of 23,431, the conventional bow harvest accounted for 1,638 while the crossbow harvest accounted for only 27. In ’76, Ohio issued 138,946 hunting permits and allowed deer hunting in 68 of its 88 counties. The deer permit success rate was approximately 16%.

By 2003, the season is running from October 1 through January 31. Compared to 1976, the total deer harvest grew 916% to 204,652. The conventional bow harvest of 20,552 ballooned 1254% while the crossbow harvest exploded to 28,352. Total archery kill was 48,904. Hunting permits sold were up 365% to 507,723, and all 88 counties were open for deer hunting. The deer permit success rate was approximately 40%.

Archery hutning has blossomed.

The seasons haven't been shortened. They've been lengthened.

You can now deer hunt in all counties in Ohio.

Total kills are way up and they are killing some whopper bucks over there.

Crossbows are just another hunting tool, not the herd decimator or anti-archery device as some would have us to believe..

[Multidigits]

IspinFish -"Of the 4,444 respondents, 40.8 percent said they were "strongly" OR "somewhat supportive" and 28.3 percent were "strongly" or "somewhat" opposed." From the Courier 3-6-05[U]

This means 30.1 percent had no real opinion... this indicates that the public did not know what they wanted to do and needed more information.......”

Willie - That also means that 12% more wanted crossbows than didn’t.

Thanks for sharing that with us..

To not have a “real opinion” does not necessarily mean they are not informed. We had a bunch of people on here that were very well informed and said they didn’t care one way or the other.

The fact that “40.8 percent said they were "strongly" OR "somewhat supportive” is HUGE in any survey.

Remember one thing - these are Kentucky sportsmen and women that answered the survey and not just the bowhunters who are attempting to protect what they consider as “their season”. Of course no one owns any particular time of the year to hunt. It is up to the people we have hired to make those decisions as to who can hunt when.

The process worked as intended.

You fellers are setting a very dangerous precedent by involving politicians in game management..


What SPINfish has posted about the survey is incorrect. I've tried to upload it on Hunt101 so that I can post it but it won't go for some reason. I'm still trying. If anyone wants to try, I'll email it to you.

In summery, the survey response shows a set of numbers for ALL HUNTERS and for ARCHERY HUNTERS ONLY. None of the numbers that SF posted are on that survey.

The survey question had five catogories, including neutral which was the largest response group. If you combine the "Strongly support" and "somewhat support" together and combine the "Strongly oppose" and the "somewhat oppose" cats. together, the SUPPORT SIDE wins on the ALL Hunters group.
On the ARCHERY HUNTERS ONLY response, it's 36% to SUPPORT to 37% to OPPOSE.

Those are the COLD HARD FACTS, no matter the attempt to mislead by the UBK and SPinfish and his mentor. Like I said, anyone who wants to verify, let me know and I'll send it to you.

NOW, if you don't believe the survey or the response, then you can't support the KYDFWR programs and their management of any game animal. Every single thing is controlled and based on survey results. The UBK saying the survey is a crock and that it's not valid in the response or sample size indicates they don't belive anything the Dept. puts out. These surveys are taken by professional people inside the KYDFWR trained in surveys. Discount the results shows you don't believ what the Dept. does is correct.

Who wants the survey question?????????

[ken w]

where can i send my anti xbow donations, be glad to help

[Multidigits]

where can i send my anti xbow donations, be glad to help
send the money to Walt, Ballard and Jim Strader. They are going through tissues faster than you can imagine. :cool:

[plowboy]

send the money to Walt, Ballard and Jim Strader. They are going through tissues faster than you can imagine. :cool:
Hey Multi, man I ain't gonna give you no static for at least a week. You have already put up with enough crap for six people. Keep on keepin on.

[Multidigits]

That's not fair, somebody has to correct my spelling.

[Duster]

Over on a Indiana site they were talking about the host of this Strader radio show and said the host hunts with a crossbow. Is this true ?

[Multidigits]

The MISINFORMATION from SF is getting very old. He's on the AIR each week with Strader and the TEAM calls their selves the "LEADING AUTHORITY ON HUNTING AND FISHISG IN KY." You think they could get their facts straight?


"......AGAIN.. the meeting that this was discussed at was not properly called. The issue was disguised as a discussion of the Crossbow Survey not as a change in the Archery regulations to INCLUDE Crossbows."

SF and STRADER should know the procedure for the Commission. They hold Committee meeting aprox. one month before the Commission meeting. This issue surfaced at the Committee meeting and was put on the agenda by a unanimous vote. Cyberhunters broke the news that day. No reason the UB didn't know it, or that SF and Strader didn't know it. SF posted on this site several times about the impending change. Now he seems to have forgotten all of that.

"Normal procedure in the past has been to notify the Conservation Organizations in the state of any changes WELL before the agenda and the rules change is discussed. This was not done."

In the past the groups notified were part of the process. Deals are made and so on. Nobody believes the UBK didn't know this issue existed. They even held a planning meeting to set a strategy that failed. The Commission process is well defined by law and KAR. Find one part of what happen that didn't meet the requirements of the law and post it up.

The sportsmen and women of the state deserve to have the issue decided by them, not by the biologists or anyone else. We do however need the input of these men.

Very funny and I'm very gald to know that SF and his mentor do not trust the KYDFWR and the field ment that do the grunt work. This was decided by survey results, which SF wants to ignore.


The people involved in this are concerned for the resources, and the tradition.
Ohio has proven that the crossbow changes the dynamic makeup of the Archery component. We currently are investing quite a bit of money on a NATIONALLY recognized Archery in schools program. Why do this if the easy to use and easy to hunt with Crossbow is going to be allowed?

Another funny in light of the fact that SF couldn't cleanly kill the two deer he attempted to sly with the evil x-bow. IBO has a class for x-bow in it's structure. AIS program may well evolve to x-bows. Bowhunter education already covers it.


Ohio has shown no real growth in Archery, while at the same time the Crossbow users now outnumber them and kill more deer.

In a word....FALSE


The Courier Journal today posted the results from the Crossbow Survey.
Someone reported on here MORE than 50% were strongly for this issue.. According to the Courier that is an error.
"Of the 4,444 respondents, 40.8 percent said they were "strongly" OR "somewhat supportive" and 28.3 percent were "strongly" or "somewhat" opposed." From the Courier 3-6-05[U]
This means 30.1 percent had no real opinion... this indicates that the public did not know what they wanted to do and needed more information. This is hardly the RINGING endorsement that Digits and whilikerz would have us believe is behind this issue.

The survey results speak for themselves when the real numbers are posted.

[Multidigits]

I would like to float a Trial Balloon to both sides here.
There seems to be 2 sides to this.. that both want to hunt.
One side wants to preserve the traditions of the sport of archery which some feel should include the challenge of drawing the bow without the game knowing, and those who want the ease of use of Crossbow.
UBK wants to preserve the Archery In Schools program and to encourage Bow Archery, and others want to make sure that there is no real change in the current Deer Status Quo.
How about this compromise...
Archers get September through November for Archery... exclusively.
Crossbows can be used from December 1, to the end of the season.. approximately 6 weeks. Archers can still hunt at that time, but we get a season that promotes both Archery with its current traditions and another season to promote Crossbows as a tool of harvest.
It seems both sides win here.
Archers and Archery Equipment still are exclusive for 3 months .. which promotes their use to deer hunters who want to hunt from Sept - November...
Then Crossbow is allowed.. Giving an opportunity for sale and use of a somewhat new weapon for Kentucky hunters but still encouraging the traditional method of hunting...
Everyone Wins... Less devisiveness.. we all go home happy?
After all we just need to get along dont we?

Counter proposal....crossbows get Sept. through the end of the rut, bows get the rest of the year. Everyone Wins... Less devisiveness.. we all go home happy? :D

[Multidigits]

Over on a Indiana site they were talking about the host of this Strader radio show and said the host hunts with a crossbow. Is this true ?


Send me more info on that. That's a good one--best of the day!!!

[Duster]

Looks like that post has been edited now.

[Multidigits]

If you don't mind, PM me what you remember of it and i'll check it out. Thanks

[Ghost]

Have you ever wondered why your UBK membership is only 400 out of 80,000 hunters in Kentucky?



I was once a member but chose not to renew my membership. The following are the reasons why:



I don not presume to know the opinion of all of the individual members, however, the leadership has made its opinion widely known. Basically, you are in favor of bow hunting only. You look upon anyone who uses a crossbow, muzzleloader, or modern firearm as a slob. You say that your mission is to preserve the tradition of bow hunting. However, you fail to understand that this can be done without being against those who choose to use a different weapon. A compound bow is not a traditional weapon, why are you not against its use. Note that there is no question mark after the last sentence as it is rhetorical. I know you will say, because you still have to draw a compound bow. Well that does not hold water. Crossbows were around hundreds, if not thousands of years before the compound bow was invented. Considering that, it seems evident that the crossbow is much more traditional that the compound bow, yet you are against is use. Consider that for yourselves!



Consider this as well. Your organizations name is United Bowhunters of Kentucky. It is not say United Longbow Hunters of Kentucky, United Recurve Bow Hunters of Kentucky, United Compound Bow Hunters of Kentucky, let alone United Cross Bow Hunters of Kentucky. Remember that a Crossbow is still a bow. This to me seems to be very close-minded.



Your public persona is that you only want to allow people who hunt with Longbows, Recurve bows or Compound bows. You are continually trying to change the dates of the season to give you the best opportunity and forget about the other 79,600 hunters in Kentucky who enjoy the outdoors.



I submit that it is the arrogant, elitist message given by the leadership of the UBK that has limited your membership to a measly 400. I do not believe that it has anything to do with advertising or any other administrative issue at which you may point. It pains me to see that an organization that could be used to promote the outdoors and turning it into an organization of elitists and naysayers that end up discouraging others from hunting if they do not use the weapon of which your organization approves.



It should be every hunter's goal to recruit hunters into the woods so they can appreciate the pleasure offered by the outdoors. Instead, you end up discouraging 99% of the people who hear your message because of its arrogant content.



I would rather hunt or harvest a dear with a bow than any other weapon. I currently use a compound bow and have hopes of one day using only a long bow. However, I still enjoy hunting with the other legal weapons allowed by the regulations. Most bow hunters share my opinion. They too like to enjoy the outdoors with the bow along with other weapons. This is why your membership is such a small representation of hunters in Kentucky.



This is why the Anti-hunters will eventually win. We cannot live and let live within our own ranks long enough to recruit others to the outdoors, let alone fight the Anti-hunters. In 20 or 30 years when we have lost or privilege to hunt you will look back in shameful reflection on all of the infighting.



As long as the heard is healthy and can handle the Crossbow, why not allow it during archery season. There is no reasonable argument to disallow its use.



Live and let live, I say. If you do not want to use a crossbow, then do not. Do not even allow it use on property that you own. In regards to public grounds, well, we all pay taxes and should have the right to use the crossbow if we so chose.



My request is this: Please get out and enjoy the outdoors. Recruit others to do the same. However, do not deny someone else the enjoyment offered by the outdoors just because they use a weapon of which you do not approve.



I ask with respect for your feelings and hope that your will in turn respect my and others feelings as well.

[Ispinfish]

NO the other seasons stay as they are.. and the only addition would be increasing the Crossbow season to the full 6 to 8 weeks starting December 1.
The Gun Hunts, the Muzzleloaders, all stay.. but the increase is at the end of the season where Crossbows get more time for use.
In talking to people in retail I discovered that people will buy more hunting gear to hunt with if they see more opportunity. With deer, the sale of muzzleloader was becoming more and more prominent to increase time in the field and crossbows were beginning to be of interest when I left the business. The main reason they were not picking up as well was the length of the season and cost. A low end crossbow was costing $300.00 a medium grade with a scope was $500.
Great ones .. well I never saw one but I have heard of prices in the $800 and higher range. Black Powder was cheaper on the lower end.. $120 to $250 for a good low end gun.. and $600 for the high end guns with changeable barrels. (Those were prices I saw and of guns I sold at Galyans while I was there.)
Archers would still be able to hunt during the crossbow season.
To me the thing slowing crossbow growth was pricing and season combination. Lots of guys did not want to spend that kind of money for only a 10 day season. They indicated they would spend it for a longer season.
By keeping an archery only season of some length we get people who are continuing to practice the traditional archery we are promoting with Archery in the Schools and which is an Olympic Sport we do poorly in.... and with the crossbow season we get the increase in use, and the increase in permit sales that the department wants.
HECK.. take a note from the Black Powder and toss in a weekend in October if you want. This will still stimulate sales, create revenue, and promote both Archery and Crossbow. Well actually when Black Powder is legal so is Crossbow any way.
Jim Dicken

[LoweBow]

Multi.
You were there and I do not feel I have to repeat what was said by the Commishioners. Actually if you have the audio why not play it back and print a transcript. It was something like as follows......

We apreciate all the people that felt passionate enough to show up and those that called all their commishioners. But I ask ..why stop there....why only call the Commishioners....if there is something you don't like or do....contact your legisators and even the Governor....don't just stop at calling just us!!! Be involved in the decision making processes of this state!!!

It went something like that.

Ghost sorry to hear that. 26 years ago UBK was formed to battle down crossbows. That was the sole reason for it's formation.
One of the reasons I personally stepped up into the VP position and will surely run for Prez. is to make changes in the organization. I've only been a member for 3 years myself and have already seen changes. When I joined I got comments about my compound like "when you gonna get a real bow?" You don't hear that stuff anymore. I won't tollerate it. We are bowhunters UNITED. The KTBA (KY Traditional Bowhunters Assoc.) exists if you want a traditional only club.
UBK is not a club. It is a political organization put together to preserve, protect and promote bowhunting.

No a crossbow is not a bow. Quote from Nebraska regs...

Special note to Crossbow hunters: A crossbow is considered the same as a firearm in Nebraska, and crossbow hunters 12 years of age or older born on or after January 1, 1977, must have proof of completion of firearm Hunter Education on their person while hunting any game, game animal or game bird with a crossbow. This includes those hunting with an archery big game license and a handy cap permit allowing for the use of a crossbow.

Like I said....I'm very sorry about your bad experience. If there is anything I can do for you feel free to call me. Our opinions differ, but we're all sportsmen. I also vow to each and every one of you on this board that no matter the outcome...I will be more and more involved w/ the stewardship of our future generations in all outdoors sports.
Mike Whelan
UBK VP

[Ispinfish]

Call in and ask him.

[Multidigits]

NO the other seasons stay as they are.. and the only addition would be increasing the Crossbow season to the full 6 to 8 weeks starting December 1.
The Gun Hunts, the Muzzleloaders, all stay.. but the increase is at the end of the season where Crossbows get more time for use.
In talking to people in retail I discovered that people will buy more hunting gear to hunt with if they see more opportunity. With deer, the sale of muzzleloader was becoming more and more prominent to increase time in the field and crossbows were beginning to be of interest when I left the business. The main reason they were not picking up as well was the length of the season and cost. A low end crossbow was costing $300.00 a medium grade with a scope was $500.
Great ones .. well I never saw one but I have heard of prices in the $800 and higher range. Black Powder was cheaper on the lower end.. $120 to $250 for a good low end gun.. and $600 for the high end guns with changeable barrels. (Those were prices I saw and of guns I sold at Galyans while I was there.)
Archers would still be able to hunt during the crossbow season.
To me the thing slowing crossbow growth was pricing and season combination. Lots of guys did not want to spend that kind of money for only a 10 day season. They indicated they would spend it for a longer season.
By keeping an archery only season of some length we get people who are continuing to practice the traditional archery we are promoting with Archery in the Schools and which is an Olympic Sport we do poorly in.... and with the crossbow season we get the increase in use, and the increase in permit sales that the department wants.
HECK.. take a note from the Black Powder and toss in a weekend in October if you want. This will still stimulate sales, create revenue, and promote both Archery and Crossbow. Well actually when Black Powder is legal so is Crossbow any way.
Jim Dicken

Is this PLAN endorsed by the UBK?????

[Multidigits]

Multi.
You were there and I do not feel I have to repeat what was said by the Commishioners. Actually if you have the audio why not play it back and print a transcript. It was something like as follows......

We apreciate all the people that felt passionate enough to show up and those that called all their commishioners. But I ask ..why stop there....why only call the Commishioners....if there is something you don't like or do....contact your legisators and even the Governor....don't just stop at calling just us!!! Be involved in the decision making processes of this state!!!

It went something like that.

Ghost sorry to hear that. 26 years ago UBK was formed to battle down crossbows. That was the sole reason for it's formation.
One of the reasons I personally stepped up into the VP position and will surely run for Prez. is to make changes in the organization. I've only been a member for 3 years myself and have already seen changes. When I joined I got comments about my compound like "when you gonna get a real bow?" You don't hear that stuff anymore. I won't tollerate it. We are bowhunters UNITED. The KTBA (KY Traditional Bowhunters Assoc.) exists if you want a traditional only club.
UBK is not a club. It is a political organization put together to preserve, protect and promote bowhunting.

No a crossbow is not a bow. Quote from Nebraska regs...

Special note to Crossbow hunters: A crossbow is considered the same as a firearm in Nebraska, and crossbow hunters 12 years of age or older born on or after January 1, 1977, must have proof of completion of firearm Hunter Education on their person while hunting any game, game animal or game bird with a crossbow. This includes those hunting with an archery big game license and a handy cap permit allowing for the use of a crossbow.

Like I said....I'm very sorry about your bad experience. If there is anything I can do for you feel free to call me. Our opinions differ, but we're all sportsmen. I also vow to each and every one of you on this board that no matter the outcome...I will be more and more involved w/ the stewardship of our future generations in all outdoors sports.
Mike Whelan
UBK VP

Mike, I believe your taking Mr. Godbey's comments out of context. His remarks referred to calling the Gov and Legislature on legislation concerning F & W. That doesn't include setting seasons by any means. His comments were directed at getting people involved with F & W decisions, which this controversy has done. I don't believe it's wise to loose the ability to manage the herd to our legislators?

[LoweBow]

You know I agree w/ you on that.

[Ispinfish]

[QUOTE=Multidigits]The MISINFORMATION from SF is getting very old. He's on the AIR each week with Strader and the TEAM calls their selves the "LEADING AUTHORITY ON HUNTING AND FISHISG IN KY." You think they could get their facts straight?

I posted the numbers as written in the Courier Journal. That is not misinformation.. If the Courier Numbers are wrong give me the right ones.
I am support on the show only, I run the computer that we look up Fish and Wildlife and other info on. I do not speak for Mr. Strader, nor would I.. he speaks much better than I do to this. I do not ever speak for Strader, I speak for myself. We do disagree on things.. I initially was in favor of the crossbow issue and if given a survey would have been in the 40% according to the courier.. However the information I have gotten since this all started has changed my mind.

SF and STRADER should know the procedure for the Commission. They hold Committee meeting aprox. one month before the Commission meeting. This issue surfaced at the Committee meeting and was put on the agenda by a unanimous vote. Cyberhunters broke the news that day. No reason the UB didn't know it, or that SF and Strader didn't know it. SF posted on this site several times about the impending change. Now he seems to have forgotten all of that.

I am aware of the procedure.. I speak for myself only. NO ONE ELSE.

In the past the groups notified were part of the process. Deals are made and so on. Nobody believes the UBK didn't know this issue existed. They even held a planning meeting to set a strategy that failed. The Commission process is well defined by law and KAR. Find one part of what happen that didn't meet the requirements of the law and post it up.

The issue was listed and I have posted HERE ON THIS BOARD THE EXACT WAY this was listed on the Agenda. NO MENTION of a rules change was listed.

Very funny and I'm very gald to know that SF and his mentor do not trust the KYDFWR and the field ment that do the grunt work. This was decided by survey results, which SF wants to ignore.

Are you telling me that surveying people about a weapon MOST of them has never used and may not understand.. is accurate.. Are you telling me that the hunters of this state once informed of what the changes might bring .. might not change their minds.

Another funny in light of the fact that SF couldn't cleanly kill the two deer he attempted to sly with the evil x-bow. IBO has a class for x-bow in it's structure. AIS program may well evolve to x-bows. Bowhunter education already covers it.

Not worthy of an answer. I have never said crossbows were evil... I will again say you SPIN the words just fine.. but I trust people to see beyond your spin and see that BOTH sides are working for something they believe in and worthy of UNSPUN information. I have not lied... I have not spun.. I have posted the numbers I am being given and that I have researched, as well as some of the reasoning of the people who do not want Crossbows listed as archery equipment in the regulations.

In a word....FALSE
In a word .. TRUE

The Courier Journal today posted the results from the Crossbow Survey.
Someone reported on here MORE than 50% were strongly for this issue.. According to the Courier that is an error.
"Of the 4,444 respondents, 40.8 percent said they were "strongly" OR "somewhat supportive" and 28.3 percent were "strongly" or "somewhat" opposed." From the Courier 3-6-05[U]
These figures were taken from the Courier .. if they are wrong then take the time to post the real figures.

Someone posted the numbers for deer taken in Ohio. The numbers are correct, there was real growth in the take by all hunters as should happen in a growing herd..
The significant numbers I pointed out were.. that Crossbow hunters take several thousand MORE deer than Archery Hunters. Archery Hunter numbers are basically the same today as they were in 1980 in Ohio..
DO WE WANT THIS TO HAPPEN IN KENTUCKY. Many hunters do not want to see the Crossbow become the preeminent stealth weapon in the state. IF we are going to invest in an Archery in the Schools program.. to promote a sport that this country does poorly in Globally and in the Olympics do we want to endanger that with crossbows. It is NOT just a Harvest Method issue.
Oh and stop giving the UBK so much credit. Do you really believe 400 out of 100,000 archers can raise that much stink. This goes BEYOND the UBK. Way beyond.

As for giving the Crossbow hunters the rut.. THEY HAVE IT ALREADY.... its called Gun Season, Crossbows are legal during GUN season.

I will again point out that Digits likes to put words in my mouth.
I posted the EXACT WORDS and NUMBERS As printed in the Courier Journal and I denoted them as such.
I have passed on the reasons people did not want this change.
I have posted the EXACT WORDING of the AGENDA for this past meeting.
The fact that some knew this was a rules change is not good enough. EVEYRONE is supposed to know. That is why the Agenda is printed. Read the posting of the agenda or go to KYDFWR and read it yourself.
I have not EVER called into question any member of the Departments work or judgement, or called them a liar, or full of crap. I have quoted the information as given to me... NONE of it indicated any of this.. Digits is attempting to make my words say something they do not, in order to Tarnish my message.
I have not at any time tossed out any mud at any person who is speaking against me.
Please consider that I have stayed on message, with facts and that by spinning me out as a liar, and as attacking the department.. is easier than proving me wrong.
I wont be back on this issue.
You know where I stand.
You know where Digits stands.
Do call your commissioner please.. Tell the commissioners what YOU want.
all any one wants is the votes of the sportsmen of the state. IF the crossbow wins.. GREAT.. I own one.
A fair hearing with proper notice is all that is wanted.
One last thing.. MR. Gailor did not betray the Archery component. He was told a the meeting that a vote was taken in the 3rd district by LKS, and that they supported the crossbow measure. This was not true at least according to the people with LKS that I have talked to. He voted as he thought his constituency wanted. Please do not disparrage Mr. Gailor here or elsewhere for his vote.

AND Digits you have never EVER answered what the LIES are that UBK told people at the commission meeting. ?????????????????????????????????????
Is that because there were none?
Easier to call people names and sling mud than to have a discussion of the issues?
I am done on this issue..PERIOD.
Not gonna be a target for a people who cant have a discussion without slinging mud.. this aint politics its OUR HERITAGE.

[gwhilikerz]

[QUOTE=Multidigits]The MISINFORMATION from SF is getting very old. He's on the AIR each week with Strader and the TEAM calls their selves the "LEADING AUTHORITY ON HUNTING AND FISHISG IN KY." You think they could get their facts straight?

I posted the numbers as written in the Courier Journal. That is not misinformation.. If the Courier Numbers are wrong give me the right ones.
I am support on the show only, I run the computer that we look up Fish and Wildlife and other info on. I do not speak for Mr. Strader, nor would I.. he speaks much better than I do to this. I do not ever speak for Strader, I speak for myself. We do disagree on things.. I initially was in favor of the crossbow issue and if given a survey would have been in the 40% according to the courier.. However the information I have gotten since this all started has changed my mind.

SF and STRADER should know the procedure for the Commission. They hold Committee meeting aprox. one month before the Commission meeting. This issue surfaced at the Committee meeting and was put on the agenda by a unanimous vote. Cyberhunters broke the news that day. No reason the UB didn't know it, or that SF and Strader didn't know it. SF posted on this site several times about the impending change. Now he seems to have forgotten all of that.

I am aware of the procedure.. I speak for myself only. NO ONE ELSE.

In the past the groups notified were part of the process. Deals are made and so on. Nobody believes the UBK didn't know this issue existed. They even held a planning meeting to set a strategy that failed. The Commission process is well defined by law and KAR. Find one part of what happen that didn't meet the requirements of the law and post it up.

The issue was listed and I have posted HERE ON THIS BOARD THE EXACT WAY this was listed on the Agenda. NO MENTION of a rules change was listed.

Very funny and I'm very gald to know that SF and his mentor do not trust the KYDFWR and the field ment that do the grunt work. This was decided by survey results, which SF wants to ignore.

Are you telling me that surveying people about a weapon MOST of them has never used and may not understand.. is accurate.. Are you telling me that the hunters of this state once informed of what the changes might bring .. might not change their minds.

Another funny in light of the fact that SF couldn't cleanly kill the two deer he attempted to sly with the evil x-bow. IBO has a class for x-bow in it's structure. AIS program may well evolve to x-bows. Bowhunter education already covers it.

Not worthy of an answer. I have never said crossbows were evil... I will again say you SPIN the words just fine.. but I trust people to see beyond your spin and see that BOTH sides are working for something they believe in and worthy of UNSPUN information. I have not lied... I have not spun.. I have posted the numbers I am being given and that I have researched, as well as some of the reasoning of the people who do not want Crossbows listed as archery equipment in the regulations.

In a word....FALSE
In a word .. TRUE

The Courier Journal today posted the results from the Crossbow Survey.
Someone reported on here MORE than 50% were strongly for this issue.. According to the Courier that is an error.
"Of the 4,444 respondents, 40.8 percent said they were "strongly" OR "somewhat supportive" and 28.3 percent were "strongly" or "somewhat" opposed." From the Courier 3-6-05[U]
These figures were taken from the Courier .. if they are wrong then take the time to post the real figures.

Someone posted the numbers for deer taken in Ohio. The numbers are correct, there was real growth in the take by all hunters as should happen in a growing herd..
The significant numbers I pointed out were.. that Crossbow hunters take several thousand MORE deer than Archery Hunters. Archery Hunter numbers are basically the same today as they were in 1980 in Ohio..
DO WE WANT THIS TO HAPPEN IN KENTUCKY. Many hunters do not want to see the Crossbow become the preeminent stealth weapon in the state. IF we are going to invest in an Archery in the Schools program.. to promote a sport that this country does poorly in Globally and in the Olympics do we want to endanger that with crossbows. It is NOT just a Harvest Method issue.
Oh and stop giving the UBK so much credit. Do you really believe 400 out of 100,000 archers can raise that much stink. This goes BEYOND the UBK. Way beyond.

As for giving the Crossbow hunters the rut.. THEY HAVE IT ALREADY.... its called Gun Season, Crossbows are legal during GUN season.

I will again point out that Digits likes to put words in my mouth.
I posted the EXACT WORDS and NUMBERS As printed in the Courier Journal and I denoted them as such.
I have passed on the reasons people did not want this change.
I have posted the EXACT WORDING of the AGENDA for this past meeting.
The fact that some knew this was a rules change is not good enough. EVEYRONE is supposed to know. That is why the Agenda is printed. Read the posting of the agenda or go to KYDFWR and read it yourself.
I have not EVER called into question any member of the Departments work or judgement, or called them a liar, or full of crap. I have quoted the information as given to me... NONE of it indicated any of this.. Digits is attempting to make my words say something they do not, in order to Tarnish my message.
I have not at any time tossed out any mud at any person who is speaking against me.
Please consider that I have stayed on message, with facts and that by spinning me out as a liar, and as attacking the department.. is easier than proving me wrong.
I wont be back on this issue.
You know where I stand.
You know where Digits stands.
Do call your commissioner please.. Tell the commissioners what YOU want.
all any one wants is the votes of the sportsmen of the state. IF the crossbow wins.. GREAT.. I own one.
A fair hearing with proper notice is all that is wanted.
One last thing.. MR. Gailor did not betray the Archery component. He was told a the meeting that a vote was taken in the 3rd district by LKS, and that they supported the crossbow measure. This was not true at least according to the people with LKS that I have talked to. He voted as he thought his constituency wanted. Please do not disparrage Mr. Gailor here or elsewhere for his vote.

AND Digits you have never EVER answered what the LIES are that UBK told people at the commission meeting. ?????????????????????????????????????
Is that because there were none?
Easier to call people names and sling mud than to have a discussion of the issues?
I am done on this issue..PERIOD.
Not gonna be a target for a people who cant have a discussion without slinging mud.. this aint politics its OUR HERITAGE.
Man this is getting too involved. You lead the league in mudslinging. you asked multi to prove that Mr Gailor was lied to. Then you answer your own challenge by saying the Mr Gailor was told that the LKS had a vote and they were against the xbow. That was the lie. Who told the lie? I dunno, but you can be sure it will come out. You have said plenty about the commission and not much of it was positive. Now you are kissing up to Gailor? Well I would too if I wanted him to change his mind. Sure wouldn't want him to know how you really feel about him and the other commission members.

[Wildcat]

I've stayed out of this crossbow thing from the start. I've kept up with it but until today nothing I saw ever changed my mind.


I noticed right off the bat something that turned my stomach as a hunter who's fought for gun and hunting rights all my life.

""The sportsmen and women of the state deserve to have the issue decided by them, not by the biologists or anyone else""


That is using the very same argument that PETA, HSUS and other anti-hunting organizations used for years against hunters and hunting in general.

Once the Commission passed something and they didn't like it they want to go over their head to the Gov and State Legislature.

This is the very same tactics the anti-hunters use.

Sorry guys, but this turns me off hearing that hunters are going to be doing the same things anti-hunters do.


Before today I didn't care if crossbows got in or not and I have been a serious archery hunter for years, heck I spend almost $1,000 on my last set up.

But after seeing this is the way people want to go over the heads then I have to say I'm now pro-crossbow and I will let my Commissioner as well as the Gov and my State Rpresenatives know.

[jonescreek]

I'm for liberty. The last post made lots of sense. Wherever there are two or more people there will be politics, but the worst thing that could happen is have anything to do with hunting end up in the hands of professional elected politicians. We could get messed over. Live and let live, and the less rules the better. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

[Multidigits]

[QUOTE=Multidigits]The MISINFORMATION from SF is getting very old. He's on the AIR each week with Strader and the TEAM calls their selves the "LEADING AUTHORITY ON HUNTING AND FISHISG IN KY." You think they could get their facts straight?

I posted the numbers as written in the Courier Journal. That is not misinformation.. If the Courier Numbers are wrong give me the right ones.
I am support on the show only, I run the computer that we look up Fish and Wildlife and other info on. I do not speak for Mr. Strader, nor would I.. he speaks much better than I do to this. I do not ever speak for Strader, I speak for myself. We do disagree on things.. I initially was in favor of the crossbow issue and if given a survey would have been in the 40% according to the courier.. However the information I have gotten since this all started has changed my mind.

SF and STRADER should know the procedure for the Commission. They hold Committee meeting aprox. one month before the Commission meeting. This issue surfaced at the Committee meeting and was put on the agenda by a unanimous vote. Cyberhunters broke the news that day. No reason the UB didn't know it, or that SF and Strader didn't know it. SF posted on this site several times about the impending change. Now he seems to have forgotten all of that.

I am aware of the procedure.. I speak for myself only. NO ONE ELSE.

In the past the groups notified were part of the process. Deals are made and so on. Nobody believes the UBK didn't know this issue existed. They even held a planning meeting to set a strategy that failed. The Commission process is well defined by law and KAR. Find one part of what happen that didn't meet the requirements of the law and post it up.

The issue was listed and I have posted HERE ON THIS BOARD THE EXACT WAY this was listed on the Agenda. NO MENTION of a rules change was listed.

Very funny and I'm very gald to know that SF and his mentor do not trust the KYDFWR and the field ment that do the grunt work. This was decided by survey results, which SF wants to ignore.

Are you telling me that surveying people about a weapon MOST of them has never used and may not understand.. is accurate.. Are you telling me that the hunters of this state once informed of what the changes might bring .. might not change their minds.

Another funny in light of the fact that SF couldn't cleanly kill the two deer he attempted to sly with the evil x-bow. IBO has a class for x-bow in it's structure. AIS program may well evolve to x-bows. Bowhunter education already covers it.

Not worthy of an answer. I have never said crossbows were evil... I will again say you SPIN the words just fine.. but I trust people to see beyond your spin and see that BOTH sides are working for something they believe in and worthy of UNSPUN information. I have not lied... I have not spun.. I have posted the numbers I am being given and that I have researched, as well as some of the reasoning of the people who do not want Crossbows listed as archery equipment in the regulations.

In a word....FALSE
In a word .. TRUE

The Courier Journal today posted the results from the Crossbow Survey.
Someone reported on here MORE than 50% were strongly for this issue.. According to the Courier that is an error.
"Of the 4,444 respondents, 40.8 percent said they were "strongly" OR "somewhat supportive" and 28.3 percent were "strongly" or "somewhat" opposed." From the Courier 3-6-05[U]
These figures were taken from the Courier .. if they are wrong then take the time to post the real figures.

Someone posted the numbers for deer taken in Ohio. The numbers are correct, there was real growth in the take by all hunters as should happen in a growing herd..
The significant numbers I pointed out were.. that Crossbow hunters take several thousand MORE deer than Archery Hunters. Archery Hunter numbers are basically the same today as they were in 1980 in Ohio..
DO WE WANT THIS TO HAPPEN IN KENTUCKY. Many hunters do not want to see the Crossbow become the preeminent stealth weapon in the state. IF we are going to invest in an Archery in the Schools program.. to promote a sport that this country does poorly in Globally and in the Olympics do we want to endanger that with crossbows. It is NOT just a Harvest Method issue.
Oh and stop giving the UBK so much credit. Do you really believe 400 out of 100,000 archers can raise that much stink. This goes BEYOND the UBK. Way beyond.

As for giving the Crossbow hunters the rut.. THEY HAVE IT ALREADY.... its called Gun Season, Crossbows are legal during GUN season.

I will again point out that Digits likes to put words in my mouth.
I posted the EXACT WORDS and NUMBERS As printed in the Courier Journal and I denoted them as such.
I have passed on the reasons people did not want this change.
I have posted the EXACT WORDING of the AGENDA for this past meeting.
The fact that some knew this was a rules change is not good enough. EVEYRONE is supposed to know. That is why the Agenda is printed. Read the posting of the agenda or go to KYDFWR and read it yourself.
I have not EVER called into question any member of the Departments work or judgement, or called them a liar, or full of crap. I have quoted the information as given to me... NONE of it indicated any of this.. Digits is attempting to make my words say something they do not, in order to Tarnish my message.
I have not at any time tossed out any mud at any person who is speaking against me.
Please consider that I have stayed on message, with facts and that by spinning me out as a liar, and as attacking the department.. is easier than proving me wrong.
I wont be back on this issue.
You know where I stand.
You know where Digits stands.
Do call your commissioner please.. Tell the commissioners what YOU want.
all any one wants is the votes of the sportsmen of the state. IF the crossbow wins.. GREAT.. I own one.
A fair hearing with proper notice is all that is wanted.
One last thing.. MR. Gailor did not betray the Archery component. He was told a the meeting that a vote was taken in the 3rd district by LKS, and that they supported the crossbow measure. This was not true at least according to the people with LKS that I have talked to. He voted as he thought his constituency wanted. Please do not disparrage Mr. Gailor here or elsewhere for his vote.

AND Digits you have never EVER answered what the LIES are that UBK told people at the commission meeting. ?????????????????????????????????????
Is that because there were none?
Easier to call people names and sling mud than to have a discussion of the issues?
I am done on this issue..PERIOD.
Not gonna be a target for a people who cant have a discussion without slinging mud.. this aint politics its OUR HERITAGE.

I'm going to work and will address the lis told later. I don't want SF to think I'm evading the question.

Here's the poll question: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/GSP/xbowdata.jpg

[Willie]

SF -"Archery Hunter numbers are basically the same today as they were in 1980 in Ohio.."

Not true at all. I posted where the archery harvest numbers have went through the roof since 1976. Do you think there are less bowhunters killing more deer when the limits have remained basically the same all those years?

DUH...

Archery hunting is alive and well in Ohio.

I see you still want to use stats from Ohio even though you said,"Ohio and Georgia are not Kentucky".LOL...

Well, be my guest as Ohio is a crossbow success story..

[DCCD]

Just wondering who was behind the push to get Xbows in archery and did they know they was opening such a Pandoras box? I just hope it's not the beginning of the end for all archery period. Just seems to me a huge price to pay to get a few more folks in the field.

[gwhilikerz]

DCCD don't worry. This is how people work out their differences. It gets loud and emotions run high. But this is not going to end bowhunting. This is basically just like the arguement years ago concerning compound bows. I was against the compound because I had spent years honing my instinctive skills and along comes some "Johnny-come-lately" who could hold his bow at full draw all day. He had fancy sights and a release aid, and he could shoot that thing much better than I could shoot my recurve. But I was wrong. Did "Johnny" kill all the deer in the woods? Nope, in fact there were enough "Johnnys" that all things concerning archery deer hunting actually improved. I finally gave in and went the compound route, although I still refuse to hunt with sights and trigger release, prefering to keep some of the "tradition" alive.
Those compound and stickbow shooters who are so active against the xbow will come around when they see that it isn't the end of the world. They will realize that we need "all" hunters in our fights with the anti-hunting groups. We don't need to exclude any hunter from that battle.

[westkybanded]

Do you people honestly believe that the governor has ANY power to reverse a decision by the commission????

Do you honestly believe that there is TIME to get another bill in on the house floor this session? It would be at least a year before they could get to it under any circumstances.

IF the house were to consider the issue it would set a VERY dangerous precident for the future of our sport... Like em or hate em, our elected officials are the absolute LAST people we want making our F&W decisions directly..

My two cents.

[bunniebuster]

Amen Gwilikerz

[turkeyhunternwtf]

what is the matter with the bow hunter's in kentucky they are never satisfied until they are screwing up the hunting season's in ky.leave the xbow hunter's alone i hunt with a xbow because i'm disabled and can't hold a compound back beside's a compound IS not a convincel bow arecurve is .

[aceoky]

I too have read the posts(most if not all of them, which is quite a bit of reading BTW) :)

Now I'm confused: just how is a crossbow NOT archery? It is(and I think in EVERY state it's classified as an archery weapon)!!!

Many states do exclude it's use(as we once did) in archery season by setting aside a different season(and allowing their use during any firearms season).

The weapon's name has "bow" within it?????? How can it NOT be an archery weapon?

Ask ANY biologist in ANY state; and they will ALL tell you, (as has been mentioned here already), that bowhunting does NOT affect a herd's growth (or overgrowth),and IS NOT a tool for successfully managing a deer herd! PERIOD!

That would/does include a crossbow BTW!

That is why a firearms deer season still exists in most states(some have went to shotguns/ml only for SAFETY reasons only!), that is when/how most deer are killed in all states , again, these are simple facts even easier to confirm....

SO WHAT? There is now another CHOICE for some to make, others to decide "it's not for them", I'm lost as to why that is such a huge deal!

Had it been a MANDATE, that we HAD to use 'em during the season, now that would be HUGE!

I've also remained silent , 'til now, BUT I must agree with some other's opinions; that it is a HUGE mistake to involve other agencies into what we love; if it happens, do not be too surprised when ALL BOWHUNTING is outlawed(as you should know, there is a HUGE anti push for this as we speak(type)..)

I also agree, that as HUNTERS/SPORTSPEOPLE, we should try to work together, and avoid ANY "infighting", as this serves NO ONE,(important), and most likely, has a purely negative affect/effect on all of us!

The facts are; it passed, now is the time to PROVE, the damage(if any), and THEN(and only then), make a case, with actual FACTS, IMHO, anything less, is "cutting our own throats",and plays into the wrong hands!!!!!!1

My best guess is: it's not nearly as bad as some would want us to believe, the deer herd, isn't "tame" and taking one with ANY type archery equiptment is NO easy task(try it if you believe otherwise) :D

FWIW, I live in Whitley county, and I'm not scared(and if you know this area,that should speak volumes)
:)

As for the "poaching" , there is nothing prior to this that prevented it, so I don't see that as an issue at all!(people that break laws, don't need 'em changed)...

Take a deep, breath, no deeper, now hold it a few seconds, relax, exhale, wait and see IF it's like you think it will be, IF it is: by all means then do all you can to "fix" it, but without FACTS, you're making enemies, you may well need tommorow! We can't afford that to happen IMHO!

Archery IS archery, whether long,recurve,or compound, and yes even x-bow!! PERIOD, just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it's wrong!
A ml IS a ml, whether flintlock,caplock, or inline! PERIOD, the regs say so, they're sold as such, so they have to be????

I've at one time or another shot most everything that can be shot,drawn,fired, whatever,(excluding an x-bow):D, and we need to refrain from this"what I shoot is all there is" attitude!!"

IF it's legal, and YOU'RE happy, that should be ALL that matters, unity is strength! Division is weakness, please, don't keep this "a bow is ONLY" attitude(or anything else that devides us) up, there is no victory in sight for that strategy(well, not on OUR side at least)

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.

Jim

[turk2di]

I didn't mind the X-Bow being allowed for deer hunting. I DID mind it being allowed on turkeys. But i have a fondness for the democratic process. Once a decision is made, wether it turned out in my favor or not, it's over and time to move on. Having said that however, i don't believe true democracy was served here by the Commission any more than any other of the changes rammed down the throats of unsuspecting hunters in this state the past several years. Perhaps the Commission SHOULD be required to hold public meeting's in each district when there is a proposed change in dates, limits, weapons, ect! Just a thought:confused:

[aceoky]

Do you people honestly believe that the governor has ANY power to reverse a decision by the commission????

Do you honestly believe that there is TIME to get another bill in on the house floor this session? It would be at least a year before they could get to it under any circumstances.

IF the house were to consider the issue it would set a VERY dangerous precident for the future of our sport... Like em or hate em, our elected officials are the absolute LAST people we want making our F&W decisions directly..

My two cents.

I couldn't agree more! What's done IS done, and a year passes too quickly(especially during hunting season):D

[aceoky]

I didn't mind the X-Bow being allowed for deer hunting. I DID mind it being allowed on turkeys. But i have a fondness for the democratic process. Once a decision is made, wether it turned out in my favor or not, it's over and time to move on. Having said that however, i don't believe true democracy was served here by the Commission any more than any other of the changes rammed down the throats of unsuspecting hunters in this state the past several years. Perhaps the Commission SHOULD be required to hold public meeting's in each district when there is a proposed change in dates, limits, weapons, ect! Just a thought:confused:

FWIW; I think the idea was to ADD hunters to the ranks, we will not know how that worked or didn't for some time! IF it does, then it's a win/win IMHO

You make some excellent points, and I appreciate the way you made them!

The bottom line IMHO: this if VERY dangerous ground some are on, I sincerly hope they tread lightly, instead of thinking of ONLY "THEIR SEASON"! This is one thing the "antis" HOPE for, the "divide and conquer" , of ALL of us! PLEASE think about the "big picture" instead of other things!(not intended at any one individual, but for ALL OF US!) :)

[arshooter]

i have read and read and read even on this subject dont really matter to me rather have not seen it happen but oh well ill shoot my compound against any x bow they are no more accurate than the shooter will have to agree with turki lil more advantage there without having to draw a bow on a turkey if its good its good we will find out and if you think a x bow is more accurate or can get more yardage think tour wrong bring the x bows on free handed no rest veruses my compound gonna be not much difference anyhoo gonna bowhunt like always.........

[coondog]

I didn't invite anyone else, yethttp://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/hippy.gif

The only place you'll see me on here again will be the bbbc section, there are some great guys on here, and I'll miss talking to you and sharing info,but the fog is thick in here and I don't know who I trust .http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/moody1.gif

I am with you too 'digger. I have not been on this site as long as you or posted as many great images and info as you for all to enjoy but I am sayin' goodbye to this website too. These guys are going to wonder where all the good people (and pics) have gone and will get tired of brow-beating eachother, being negative and narrow minded. There are some good aspects here and some good folks but a few bad apples can spoil the lot. I have had fun for awhile but I am tired of walking on eggshells around a few here. Besides, this is not the place to become a better hunter or help the hunting/conservation community. That place is in the field.

[WildmanWilson]

H-Digger got his ball and is taking it home. Good luck.

[gwhilikerz]

Yep it seems that if some folks can't get their way they just pick up and leave. But then again it seems like we xbow supporters just got moved to the back room:) . That's ok, I like the view from here.

[AteUp]

You've got the best smiley faces I've ever seen....how do you do it?

He probably just "borrows" them from other peoples posts on the net. As do I. http://www.jesseshunting.com/photopost/data/500/17026dead_horse.gif

[Kansas]

Back room is better then out on the street. The compound guys don't like it when they have to share.:rolleyes:

[P. Beyer]

Ya know,....I'm on this site daily. Usually 2x-4x a day.....

I must have really missed something lately.

[Kansas]

You now have a new option on what you can take in the woods this fall.

[Multidigits]

"In talking to people in retail I discovered that people will buy more hunting gear to hunt with if they see more opportunity" In Alabama, the "more oppurtunity" was a godsend to the sporting goods retailers. Stores that had sold 4 or 5 units a year were selling that many in a day for several months. The service part of the business will expand likewise. More oppurtunity is what we're after here. You made an excellant point for our side. Thanks.

"....and crossbows were beginning to be of interest when I left the business. The main reason they were not picking up as well was the length of the season..." SpinF is on our side, thanks again.

"Archers would still be able to hunt during the crossbow season" Cha-ching again!

"To me the thing slowing crossbow growth was pricing and season combination. Lots of guys did not want to spend that kind of money for only a 10 day season. They indicated they would spend it for a longer season." How can you argue with logic like that?
"and with the crossbow season we get the increase in use, and the increase in permit sales that the department wants" Thought there would be no NET increase? Thanks again SpinF! :D

[Kansas]

If the guy that buys the crossbow is new to archery, he is also buying lighter weight camo, cover scents, lure, possibly a new tree stand and a variety of other stuff that he hasn't needed during gun season. He isn't just buyin a crossbow. That is a big boost to the retailer and to the state in tax dollars.

[Willie]

In Georgia they have found that the number of people taking up crossbows is increasing yearly.

What is amazing is that they are also finding the number of people taking up bowhunting with vertical bows is also increasing since crossbows were legalized.

Their belief is that dad is joining his son or wife or his dad who has taken up the crossbow to hunt with. Only he is going the vertical bow route. Some new crossbowers/archers are buying both crossbows and vertical bows since they can legally switch back and forth.

This ability to switch is pretty important for us up north as when the weather gets real cold we can pick up the crossbow and not have to worry about "can I pull this back with all these clothes on?"

[12 pointer]

This ability to switch is pretty important for us up north as when the weather gets real cold we can pick up the crossbow and not have to worry about "can I pull this back with all these clothes on?"[/QUOTE]



i tell you what i look forward to the most about a xbow. that sitting flat on the ground, covered all the way up to my waist with leaves. and when that buck walks just feet from me..........slowly raise and shoot. hard to shoot a bow sitting flat like that. when i was a kid, i had a doe step in the leaves that were covering me up! you talking about up close and personal. a real blood stirrer!!!!!!!! :eek:

[Willie]

This ability to switch is pretty important for us up north as when the weather gets real cold we can pick up the crossbow and not have to worry about "can I pull this back with all these clothes on?"



i tell you what i look forward to the most about a xbow. that sitting flat on the ground, covered all the way up to my waist with leaves. and when that buck walks just feet from me..........slowly raise and shoot. hard to shoot a bow sitting flat like that. when i was a kid, i had a doe step in the leaves that were covering me up! you talking about up close and personal. a real blood stirrer!!!!!!!! :eek:[/QUOTE]


........and they sure look bigger from ground level too, don't they?

[Ispinfish]

Thanks for posting the SAME NUMBERS I POSTED FROM THE COURIER JOURNAL... I do appreciate that. I posted the entire quote from the CJ.. they did not report the Archery numbers.
If you add 23.2 and 17.6 you get.. what... 40.8% as I stated was in the Courier Article.
If you add 19.7 and 8.6 you get.. what.. 28.3% as stated in the Courier Article..
I LIED about the NUMBERS??? Nope.. reported them exactly as printed in the Courier...
Why did I report that.. because someone had stated MORE than 50% were strongly in favor on a previous post.. someplace on this board. I cant seem to find that post.
NOW for the OHIO NUMBERS..
One more time.
While the numbers have grown.. (YES I agree.. never disagreed)
While the harvest has grown.. (YES it has..never disagreed with that)
The percentage of deer taken by Bowhunters NOT INCLUDING CROSSBOW has dropped. The number of ARCHERY HUNTERS has remained the same while CROSSBOW numbers have exploded.....
I have those numbers directly from a conversation with the Ohio Biologist.
The point being that Archery is NOT being promoted, Archery is stagnant in OHIO.
The Tradition is dying in Ohio.. Yeah they still kill a lot of deer.. but the percentages of deer killed by bows are LOWER>> NOT THE NUMBERS OF DEER..

STILL... Mr. Digits and Mr. Whillikers have not stated WHAT LIE the UBK told to the commission? I suggest that is because the UBK did not lie to any one.
My sources tell me NO VOTE was taken in the 3rd District.. is that true or NOT????
A LOKS member tells me NO vote was taken.. there was no time for a vote.
If it was not, and someone told that to Mr. Gailor.. then someone lied.. Who was that??
I am not kissing up to Mr. Gailor, I am defending his actions based on being given misinformation. YES, his vote will be needed to overturn this...IF it is overturned.

As for my comment about the decisions about wildlife being left to the constituency and not ultimately to the biologists.. its called DEMOCRACY.. if that makes you ill then go live in another country. I believe that the people, hunters and fishermen of this state when given the information have the right to decide for themselves what is and is not good for THEIR sport in this Commonwealth.
Your dragging in the statements of Animal Rights Activists is ill advised.. it is comparing apples to oranges.. They wish to STOP all hunting.. while the hunters of this state want to have a say in the hunt and should.. they PAY FOR IT.
We pay the taxes we should get a vote.. right.. OH thats why we have elections because WE PAY THE Frigging Taxes so the POLITICIANS have to answer to us occasionally.
The commission has been overuled before on issues. It is NOT a bad precedent, it is part and parcel of the system.
This is one reason our Commission system is so good.. it can correct itself.. and has.
A former game warden called in and said it best.. but if you want to hear his words.. heck Order the CD of the Broadcast.. You can listen to it and ALL statements made about this issue. Decide for yourselves by listening to the exact words spoken if anyone is lying about what this could mean to the state Deer Herd and Turkey Flocks, and to the Tradition of Archery in the state..
YEAH.. Tradition..
Tradition is important.
It is a reason to create SEPERATE but EQUAL Seasons for Crossbow and Archery.
If the seasons run together the tradition will diminish. (OHIO NUMBERS)
If the seasons run seperately the tradition has a reason to continue.
Archery was here first and archers have done a lot for the state conservation efforts.. reward them with the first part of the season.
IF we have to have a larger season for Xbow make it the last half of the season, when the crossbow is more of an advantage.. with less foliage to hide behind and to cover the draw of the bow.
Seems reasonable to me.. of course I know it wont make everyone happy..
MY VIEW of this as a fisherman who hunts some... is that the TRADITION is important and I do believe we need to honor that tradition.
I have not at any time criticized the Department, its biologists or any commission member.. My words have been spun by several to indicate I have and if you say something ENOUGH it tends to become true.. so I still come here to restate that I HAVE NOT said these things.. nor have I ever insulted anyone on this board.. much less lied about anything. I have quoted numbers given to me, and information from the show which was on public airways..and printed by the Courier Journal... so it would be hard for me to lie about that since so many heard the same things I heard.
Have a nice Day.
Jim Dicken

[Ispinfish]

No net increase in LICENSES.. net increase of around 20,000 in permits MAYBE.

[Multidigits]

I thought you were leaving? Welcome back, your one of our best sources in the debate.

Thanks for posting the SAME NUMBERS I POSTED FROM THE COURIER JOURNAL... You did not report acurately what the survey results were. 5 possible answer to choose from, not 3. I wouldn't say it was a lie as much as misinformation.

NOW for the OHIO NUMBERS..
"The point being that Archery is NOT being promoted, Archery is stagnant in OHIO. The Tradition is dying in Ohio." Maybe the UBK and Strader and Co. need to work on Ohio and rejuvenate their interest a bit??? Just an idea. Seems that Ohio has far more bowhunters than does Ky.. Got any idea what the membership is in their MAJOR BOWHUNTER ORG.????

"STILL... Mr. Digits and Mr. Whillikers have not stated WHAT LIE the UBK told to the commission? I suggest that is because the UBK did not lie to any one." Most of the lies dealt with the misinformation campaign waged by the panel and strader himself on Sunday night. Several different times, reference was made to the LKS when there is no Official LKS stance on crossbow. We can forgive your ignorance on the subject because your uninformed. Two of the panel members were not uninformed and knew better. The attempt to make it appear that the LKS was simpethetic to crossbows but did not have time to vote on it is completely false and is actually a lie. It's a total fabrication of the facts. Several times on the show, the name LKS was mentioned when in fact it should have been the word FEDERATION. People claiming to be the "leading authority on hunting and fishing in Ky." ought to know better. Yes, it was a lie by the two making those claims. Other lies dealt with the facts that this was not on the Agenda ahead of time, that the UBK had only two weeks notice ahead of time, and so on. Totally untrue. Cyberhunters was at the Committee meeting and had it on the Internet that day.


My sources tell me NO VOTE was taken in the 3rd District.. is that true or NOT???? You got one right for a change!

A LOKS member tells me NO vote was taken.. there was no time for a vote.

I doubt that anyone in a position to speak for the LKS has actually talked to you about this....specify and we'll discuss it.

If it was not, and someone told that to Mr. Gailor.. then someone lied.. Who was that?? Who cares? It didn't work well for them did it??


I am not kissing up to Mr. Gailor, I am defending his actions based on being given misinformation. YES, his vote will be needed to overturn this...IF it is overturned. Mr. Gailer voted on the facts, he was lied to by a anti-crossbow person and it was exposed at the Commission meeting. If the overturn movement gains ground, his vote will count the same as the others. They won't just poll him to see if he wants to change his mind. With the end run around the Commission, I would expecta 9 -0 vote FOR crossbows the next time. Those folks don't like being screwed with by going over their head.

As for my comment about the decisions about wildlife being left to the constituency and not ultimately to the biologists.. its called DEMOCRACY.. if that makes you ill then go live in another country. I believe that the people, hunters and fishermen of this state when given the information have the right to decide for themselves what is and is not good for THEIR sport in this Commonwealth.

Total bull crap....lets vote on how many deer per sq. mile we manage for. You need to study how KYDFWR works before making stupid statements.

Commissioners are not elected officials, they are selected to serve. There is no election to seat them or remove them.

The commission has been overuled before on issues. It is NOT a bad precedent, it is part and parcel of the system. Just testing you here--WHEN?

This is one reason our Commission system is so good.. it can correct itself.. and has. Your the one complaining about the system, not me. Make up your mind.


A former game warden called in and said it best.. but if you want to hear his words.. heck Order the CD of the Broadcast.. Your real agenda is to sell audio of the show at $15 bucks a whack...or is it $14??? Ridicules!



Jim Dicken

[Multidigits]

No net increase in LICENSES.. net increase of around 20,000 in permits MAYBE.

Read the Georgia study again.

[Ispinfish]

QUOTE FROM DIGITS "Other lies dealt with the facts that this was not on the Agenda ahead of time, that the UBK had only two weeks notice ahead of time, and so on. Totally untrue. Cyberhunters was at the Committee meeting and had it on the Internet that day."

Thank you digits.. I posted on this site the EXACT wording on the AGENDA. This IS THE PUBLIC RECORD.. The AGENDA stated a DISCUSSION OF THE CROSSBOW SURVEY.. it mentioned not one thing about changing of any rules or laws concerning the use of crossbows.
While the guys from Cyberhunters may have had it on THEIR Agenda that is NOT the public agenda. EVERYONE is supposed to be notified and the PUBLIC NOTICE left out this fact. ONLY the Cyberhunters apparently were aware that the rule was up for change. THAT IS NOT the proper way to notify the people who pay the bills.. THE HUNTERS AND FISHERMEN.. Had the Cyberhunters not been at the previous meeting NO ONE would have known now would they?????
THE PUBLIC RECORD is the AGENDA.. not the Cyberhunters.
UBK most likely found out from the Cyberhunters Post.. I dont know that for sure...

SO its Bull Crap that the people paying the bills should have a say in how the herd is managed or hunted???????????????? Now we see your true colors. Let someone make the decisions for us. Big Brother can do it all for us so why should we make any decisions we are too stupid to do that...? (Tongue in cheek, I dont believe KDFWR is big brother) Is that what you are saying. The hunters who are in the field have no clue how any of this REALLY works? We are too stupid to have a say?
WRONG... The hunters of this state PAY the frigging bills they know the herd almost as well as the biologists, and in the end are and should be in charge.
IT is the HUNTERS who should decide SOCIAL issues not the biologists.
IF we as a society of hunters and as a democracy wishes to continue to have a TRADITION of Bow Hunting then we have to take some action to promote that TRADITION. We are already doing that with Archery in the schools.
The Ohio numbers prove that if archery and Xbow are in competition that Xbow will dominate, and in the end stop the growth of a program we have spent (I DONT KNOW how much are we spending on Archery in schools?)
Tradition is at the root of this as well as the fact that hunters see that we have JUST THIS YEAR hit the numbers set by Fish and Wildlife for our hunters to have a Quality Herd. WHY when we have just hit the EXACT numbers wanted are we messing with the dynamic of the hunt???
ONE MORE TIME..
No net increase in license sales only in permits..
Some retail benefit .. which could be totally overcome if things go bad.
WE can always increase a season, but you will play hell decreasing any season once established. Why are we going whole hog into this when we have JUST GOTTEN the numbers for the hunt we want??? Why are we taking the chance?
The questions these people have are numerous and mostly unanswered.
The issue with Mr. Gailor is that the person from UBK did NOT lie to him.. NO vote was taken by LOKS.. That is what UBK told him..(NO VOTE WAS TAKEN) someone later told Mr. Gailor a vote WAS taken and went FOR Xbow..Mr. Gailor THOUGHT UBK lied to him..UBK told the truth. Thank you for verifying that fact...

The commission.. if memory serves me .. revoted for continued introduction of stripers into Lake Cumberland over the objections of many including the Cumberland Marinas.. They had voted to stop it for the trout fishery in the lake... but I cant prove that it was over 25 years ago and I can not find any record.. There have been others I will check and see if I can find them.
I would have stayed out, but since you keep calling me a liar and I am NOT lying.. I will continue to point out the Turth about my statements.
The Courier Quote was correct.. it stated that there were 5 categories and summarized the 2 for and the 2 against.. IF you can add the number of people who did NOT vote for OR against it was 30 POINt something as I POINTED OUT... YOUR NIT picking on the Courier INfo.. It was correct.. it was not a lie.. they simply summarized it.. and you have NOT answered my point about someone posting on here OVER 50% supported XBOW when the real number was 40.3 percent...
So to recap...
YEAH IM GONNA DO IT..]
NO LIES by UBK..
NO LIES by me..
REAL QUESTIONS and not many answers... as to why this change is needed NOW when the numbers are just this year where we want them..
FALSE REPORTING of the Agenda issue.. Cyberhunters might have known, but they were the only ones. THE PUBLIC AGENDA SAID NOTHING about a rule change.. just discussion of the Crossbow Issue.. Yes people saw that and were going to get involved, but NOT to the extent they did when the TRUE Agenda was posted. POLITICS..
The commission members are to a point ELECTED.. a public meeting is held.. people are nominated and the top ( I think the number is 5) names are sent to the Governor for an appointment. The governor then choses from the names.. but he is restricted by the number of members of each party on the commission. So while we do vote the end choice goes to the governor.. The commission has as much politics in it as anything else.. EVEN schoolyards have politics..
Get it right and I wont come back.. Tell people I am lying and I will prove you wrong.
Quote me out of context and I will make sure to catch it..
Your ticked because of something said on the show.. when you should be worried about how this all got started.
IF the end result is for Xbows I have no issue.. BUT the hunters should have been give more REAL Notice in the PUBLIC Record.. and the Commissioners should hear from LOKS and NWTF and other conservation organizations as to what their memeber want BEFORE this issue is voted on.
30 days was too fast.
Requests to table the issue for another 30 days should have been honored.
Jim

[Multidigits]

>>>>>>>>>>

QUOTE FROM DIGITS "Other lies dealt with the facts that this was not on the Agenda ahead of time, that the UBK had only two weeks notice ahead of time, and so on. Totally untrue. Cyberhunters was at the Committee meeting and had it on the Internet that day."

Thank you digits.. I posted on this site the EXACT wording on the AGENDA. This IS THE PUBLIC RECORD.. The AGENDA stated a DISCUSSION OF THE CROSSBOW SURVEY.. it mentioned not one thing about changing of any rules or laws concerning the use of crossbows. LAST TIME that I'm going to explain the process to you. You should know it being the authority that you claim to be. F & W have a Commission and inside the Commission, they have Committees---they have a Fisheries, an Admin. And a Wildlife Committee. They meet in committee fashion aprox. 30 days before the Commission meeting. The Committees vote on action items to be included on the next Commission meeting Agenda. One of those was a change to allow crossbow in the archery season based on the crossbow survey. Those at the Committee meeting knew it, as did anyone who can read things posted on this site. There was no conspiracy to ram something through. F & W had time to gather the facts in the Commissioners binders. The process worked as planned and worked well for some of us.....some others are whining about it.


While the guys from Cyberhunters may have had it on THEIR Agenda that is NOT the public agenda. EVERYONE is supposed to be notified and the PUBLIC NOTICE left out this fact. ONLY the Cyberhunters apparently were aware that the rule was up for change.

Read you post on Fishin.com date Feb. 27 and the many goofy posts on this site before the vote. Even you heard about it and knew it????


THAT IS NOT the proper way to notify the people who pay the bills.. THE HUNTERS AND FISHERMEN.. Had the Cyberhunters not been at the previous meeting NO ONE would have known now would they????? DuH! Why do you think we were there???? UBK has a Legislative Rep. that was supposed to be there, why wasn't he?????


THE PUBLIC RECORD is the AGENDA.. not the Cyberhunters. Been done that away while you were still pooping yellow and it was never an issue before....what changed?????


UBK most likely found out from the Cyberhunters Post.. I dont know that for sure...SO its Bull Crap that the people paying the bills should have a say in how the herd is managed or hunted???????????????? I know a lot of guys that want more dere, no telechek and micro-management--should we vote on that or defer to the biologists. what about Saturday openers for turkey season....should we vote or defer to the biologists lie the NWTF did? what about adding the fall gun turkey season, vote or defer like the NWTF/UBK did a while back

Now we see your true colors. Let someone make the decisions for us. Big Brother can do it all for us so why should we make any decisions we are too stupid to do that...? (Tongue in cheek, I dont believe KDFWR is big brother) Is that what you are saying. The hunters who are in the field have no clue how any of this REALLY works? We are too stupid to have a say? Here's what I'm saying....learn the system, work the system...plan your work....work your plan.


WRONG... The hunters of this state PAY the frigging bills they know the herd almost as well as the biologists, and in the end are and should be in charge. Again,your saying you know as much as Gassett and Day....next time they are on your show I'll try to ask you in front of them


IT is the HUNTERS who should decide SOCIAL issues not the biologists.
IF we as a society of hunters and as a democracy wishes to continue to have a TRADITION of Bow Hunting then we have to take some action to promote that TRADITION. We are already doing that with Archery in the schools.

Goes back to the survey-- the approved number was bigger than the opposed number and a lot didn't care one bit.

Why are we taking the chance? Both biologist said it would have no negative effect on the herd and it presents more oppurtunity


The issue with Mr. Gailor is that the person from UBK did NOT lie to him..

So it wasn't a lie....that's a lie! When a caller says that the Federation voted unanimously to oppose the crossbow change, when no vote was taken, that is a lie. A bald faced lie.

NO vote was taken by LOKS.. That is what UBK told him..(NO VOTE WAS TAKEN) someone later told Mr. Gailor a vote WAS taken and went FOR Xbow..Mr. Gailor THOUGHT UBK lied to him..UBK told the truth. Thank you for verifying that fact... your using the term LKS again....I need for you to quit doing that--last warnng!

The commission.. if memory serves me .. revoted for continued introduction of stripers into Lake Cumberland over the objections of many including the Cumberland Marinas.. They had voted to stop it for the trout fishery in the lake... but I cant prove that it was over 25 years ago and I can not find any record.. There have been others I will check and see if I can find them.

come back when you have correct info to display, you've mislead enough folks on here and at Galyans to keep doing that


I would have stayed out, but since you keep calling me a liar and I am NOT lying.. I will continue to point out the Turth about my statements. I'd say in your case MISINFORMED would be a better word.


NO LIES by UBK.. Wrong you didn't address that Walt and J.R both know League protocal and fully understand the make up of the LKS and it's Federations. They both tried to mislead what actually happened and you posted theri version here with out trying to find the truth.


NO LIES by me.. LOL

REAL QUESTIONS and not many answers... as to why this change is needed NOW when the numbers are just this year where we want them..
FALSE REPORTING of the Agenda issue.. Cyberhunters might have known, but they were the only ones. THE PUBLIC AGENDA SAID NOTHING about a rule change.. just discussion of the Crossbow Issue.. Yes people saw that and were going to get involved, but NOT to the extent they did when the TRUE Agenda was posted. POLITICS..
The commission members are to a point ELECTED.. a public meeting is held.. people are nominated and the top ( I think the number is 5) names are sent to the Governor for an appointment. The governor then choses from the names.. but he is restricted by the number of members of each party on the commission. So while we do vote the end choice goes to the governor.. The commission has as much politics in it as anything else.. EVEN schoolyards have politics..
Get it right and I wont come back.. Tell people I am lying and I will prove you wrong.
Quote me out of context and I will make sure to catch it..
Your ticked because of something said on the show.. when you should be worried about how this all got started.
IF the end result is for Xbows I have no issue.. BUT the hunters should have been give more REAL Notice in the PUBLIC Record.. and the Commissioners should hear from LOKS and NWTF and other conservation organizations as to what their memeber want BEFORE this issue is voted on.
30 days was too fast.
Requests to table the issue for another 30 days should have been honored.
Jim
Bottom line is your side lost, your buddy Jim lost and your panel lost they no want to discredit a system that has been in place for ions and has work more times than not. You want to be a part of that without knowing the facts. I'm done arguing with you because it serves no purpose. your a beaten man and it shows. sorry for your lose.

[gwhilikerz]

Ispinfish you sure do a lot of spinning. I won't comment on most of your crap. But I will say something about your "democracy" bull. If the fish and wildlife in KY were to be managed in a democratic manner what do you suppose would happen to hunting and fishing? Even tho sportsmen spend the money to run KDFWR and do many things to help animal populations, it would be the non-hunter and even the anti that would be the majority. Do you really want them deciding what is best concerning something they know zilch about?
Maybe you should take a deep breath, maybe then you can see where your ridiculous position will take our future.

[Willie]

I SpinFish - "NOW for the OHIO NUMBERS.."

Willie - I thought you said "Ohio and Georgia is not Kentucky"? Why do you insist on using data from there and then reject what other data is presented? Are you cherry picking your data and sources?

I SpinFish - "One more time."

willie - I really haven't seem the "first time". Just some data that says crossbowers are killing more deer."

I SpinFish - "While the numbers have grown.. (YES I agree.. never disagreed)
While the harvest has grown.. (YES it has..never disagreed with that)"

[b]willie - And bowhunters are killing more and in record numbers.The number one P & Y non-typical came from that state. The number one typical crossbow buck came from that state too

I SpinFish - "The percentage of deer taken by Bowhunters NOT INCLUDING CROSSBOW has dropped. The number of ARCHERY HUNTERS has remained the same while CROSSBOW numbers have exploded....."

willie - Percentages doesn't mean sqaut. The bowhunters using vertical bows are killing more and bigger bucks every year. NOTHING about crossbows has diminishied their hunt one iota.

Listen very carefully - it is another chocie in hunting tools.

I SpinFish - "I have those numbers directly from a conversation with the Ohio Biologist."

willie - "Post how many bowhunters there are and how many there were 10 yeras ago.. While you are at it find out how many bowhunters switch back and forth wth a crossbow and a vertical bow. CHOICE is good..

[Multidigits]

X-bow supportors--Let's let spinfish post and ignore it from now on. I disputed ever part of what he's posted several times and he doesn't want to listen. Apparently he has a different agenda, maybe selling DVDs or something? anyway, let him spout off and enjoy himself. Call your commissioner and urge him to support last Fridays vote and to keep the commerce and Legislature out of it. Everyday passed is another nail in the coffin. Thanks.

[Willie]

X-bow supportors--Let's let spinfish post and ignore it from now on. I disputed ever part of what he's posted several times and he doesn't want to listen. Apparently he has a different agenda, maybe selling DVDs or something? anyway, let him spout off and enjoy himself. Call your commissioner and urge him to support last Fridays vote and to keep the commerce and Legislature out of it. Everyday passed is another nail in the coffin. Thanks.

Ah just one more Multi......

We should have pity on those poor, poor Ohio bowhunters...

Ohio….

Number of bowhunters: Approximately 200,000

http://espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/s/h_deer_forecast03_OH.html



Bow hunters tally record deer kills

By Michael Johnson, msjohnso@nncogannett.com
Gazette Sports Editor

Deer hunting in Ohio is proving to be a record-breaking boon for the state.
Bow hunters have taken more than 40,000 deer during the first six weeks of the Ohio deer-archery hunting season.

The preliminary figures, supplied by the Ohio Department of Natural Resources' Division of Wildlife, is 13 percent more than the number harvested during the same period last year, which saw a little more than 36,000 deer killed.

Last year's take was a record-setter, and so is this season's harvest.
"Bow hunting is one of the fastest growing sports in the country," Division of Wildlife Chief Steven Gray said. "Last year, Ohio archers hit a new high with more than 25 percent of the deer kill coming from the bow hunting season. This year looks as though it will produce even higher numbers."

Counties reporting the highest number of deer brought to check stations include Licking (1,590), Holmes (1,471), Tuscarawas (1,393), Coshocton (1,203) and Trumbull (1,174).

Locally, Pickaway County hunters only brought in 298 deer, while bow hunters in Pike County had 255 checked at a station.

Ross County ranked in the middle of the pack as hunters totaled 674 -- a slight drop from last year's 702. Hunters in Vinton County harvested 351 deer.

The statewide deer population was estimated to be 700,000 in early October. Approximately 250,000 bow hunters are expected to participate in the deer-archery season, which began Oct. 2 and will run until Jan. 31 (including Sundays and during the deer-gun season, which runs from Nov. 29 to Dec. 5).

Last year, bow hunters harvested a total of 50,564 deer during the four-month Ohio archery season.

http://www.chillicothegazette.com/news/stories/20041117/localsports/1606224.html

[Multidigits]

Looks like BOWHUNTING and Crossbowhunting are both doing more than excellant in Ohio. Good report. Thanks.

[gwhilikerz]

multi do you or someone out there have a list of the commissioners and their phone #, e-mails, etc? It might help if xbow supporters had these things handy.

[Multidigits]

Most of them don't list a email...it's phone or mail only: http://www.kyafield.com/commmembers.asp?lid=685&NavPath=C129


1st DistrictCharles W. Martin1125 Court Street
Wickliffe, KY 42087270-335-5967Counties: Ballard, Caldwell, Calloway, Carlisle, Christian, Crittenden, Fulton, Graves, Hickman, Livingston, Lyon, McCracken, Marshall, Trigg2nd DistrictTom Baker
Coldwell Banker Commercial
Real Estates Services, Inc.
996 Wilkinson Trace, Suite C-6
Bowling Green, KY 42103270-781-3844
Counties: Allen, Butler, Daviess, Hancock, Henderson, Hopkins, Logan, McLean, Muhlenberg, Ohio, Simpson, Todd, Union, Warren, Webster3rd DistrictAllen K. Gailor
730 W. Market
Louisville, KY 40202502-584-7217
Counties: Breckinridge, Bullitt, Jefferson, Meade, Oldham, Shelby, Spencer4th DistrictRon Southall
8 Maple Lane
Elizabethtown, KY 42701270-737-1890Counties: Adair, Barren, Cumberland, Edmonson, Grayson, Green, Hardin, Hart, Larue, Marion, Metcalfe, Monroe, Nelson, Taylor, Washington5th DistrictDr. James Rich
5975 Taylor Mill Road
Covington, KY 41015859-356-9274
Counties: Boone, Bracken, Campbell, Carroll, Gallatin, Grant, Harrison, Henry, Kenton, Owen, Pendleton, Robertson, Trimble6th DistrictR. G. Toler5228 Trapp Goff Corner
Winchester, KY 40391859-842-4104
Counties: Anderson, Boyle, Casey, Clark, Estill, Fayette, Franklin, Garrard, Jessamine, Lee, Lincoln, Madison, Mercer, Powell, Rockcastle, Scott, Woodford7th DistrictDoug Hensley
PO Box 480
Hazard, KY 41701606-436-2321
Counties: Breathitt, Floyd, Harlan, Johnson, Knott, Lawrence, Leslie, Letcher, Magoffin, Martin, Owsley, Perry, Pike8th DistrictDr. Robert C. Webb
45 Webb Circle
Grayson, KY 41143606-474-5149
Counties: Bath, Bourbon, Boyd, Carter, Elliott, Fleming, Greenup, Lewis, Mason, Menifee, Montgomery, Morgan, Nicholas, Rowan, Wolfe9th DistrictDavid Godby
16 Summer Breeze
Somerset, KY 42503606-677-0115 Office
Counties: Bell, Clay, Clinton, Jackson, Knox, Laurel, McCreary, Pulaski, Russell, Wayne, Whitley

[Ispinfish]

Yes they are. The kill is way up.
BUT the bowhunting numbers are much less than those of crossbows.. and there is NO GROWTH IN ARCHERY.
Now you may sell more Xbows, but in OHIO there are no more ARCHERS today than when the Crossbow was introduced.
I want to thank Digits..
He has confirmed BOTH of the main premises that the Anti Crossbow people have said was the contention.
1. UBK told Mr. Gailor there was no vote by the 3rd District LOKS... Digits confirmed it.
The lie was that Mr. Gailor was told there WAS a vote and it was PRO Xbow. HE THOUGHT UBK lied to him.. they had NOT..(I Know this one is tough to follow.. especially in print)
2. The PUBLIC Agenda was not properly written. It did not disclose ANY change in the rules for archery.. (Yes the Cyberhunters were aware.. but cyberhunters is NOT the public agenda)
3. ONE MORE TIME>..
YES.. the numbers in Ohio are great.. deer kills are increasing. I agree with your numbers..
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE PERCENTAGES...
MORE Xbow kills / More Bucks thand does
Archery is STAGNANT... ARCHERY NUMBERS by PERCENTAGE are down... yes the numbers are up over 1986.. but the percentages are not..
The number of Archery HUNTERS is not increasing.
NO SPIN, The numbers tell the tale quite truthfully.
I have NO agenda.. I dont give a fat rats rear end if you want a CD or not. I offered that information for anyone who wanted to hear what the REAL statements were without the Spinning by Digits and Whillikers.
I hunt with a crossbow and will welcome an increase in the season, but I DO NOT FEEL it is in the interest of this state to make changes WHEN WE JUST HIT THE NUMBERS the biologists gave us...
PLUS altering the tradition of Bow Hunting in the state.
Bow Hunters have been at the forefront of every single conservation event this state has had.. from the reintroduction of deer and turkey to elk.
When we are spending (How much on Archery in the schools) why do we want to do something that has proven in OHIO to lessen the need for Archery?????????????
NO NET GAIN IN ARCHERY KILLS by PERCENTAGE IN OHIO.....
NO NET GAIN IN ARCHERS since the introduction of the Crossbow.
Dont fall for Digits SPINNING on this. He wants to ignore me because I am right about EVERY SINGLE THING I HAVE SAID. He cant disprove it.. and he has verified it on a couple of occasions.
As for agenda's... what is your AGENDA?
What is your reason for increasing Xbow?
What business are you in?
Will it benefit from XBow?
I get nothing for this.. but wasting my time. I BELIEVE this is wrong.. I have NO AGENDA. I hunt with a crossbow and enjoy it.
My business will not benefit from this.
I dont sell crossbows, or archery equipment.. I am a fishing resource person.
I provide information on Fishing Guides, Fishing Reports..
I am only an average fisherman and have never claimed to be anything else.
SO what AGENDA do I have.. How will I benefit from keeping Archery as a tradition in the state????????????????????????
You cant answer that can you Digits.
How about you? What is your business.. how will you benefit..
Get it out in the open and tell folks why you are pushing this.. its only fair if you are going to accuse me of having an AGENDA...
IGNORE DIGITS.. until he comes clean on HIS AGENDA

[Duster]

Twice in your post you state you hunt with a crossbow. What the heck is your problem then, you afraid of more crossbow hunters being in the woods the same time you are ? Will you be in the woods sept 3 crossbow in hand ? Got to be more to this , stay tuned for the rest of the story. The survey was taken results were posted. The middle choice seem to be the most popular... Neutral meansThey Had No Opinion..... That means quite a few of those surveyed don't care one way or another.

I don't know about the rest of yall but when I looked at the agenda and seen after crossbow survey the words Deer Season Framework it means to me the season may be changed.

[Multidigits]

.............
Yes they are. The kill is way up.
BUT the bowhunting numbers are much less than those of crossbows.. and there is NO GROWTH IN ARCHERY. In Ohio, they count crossbows as archery, you can't increase the number of hunters and the number of deer kills without having an increse. It's not possible.


Now you may sell more Xbows, but in OHIO there are no more ARCHERS today than when the Crossbow was introduced. Archers are crossbow users. Hunters have a choice, some choose the crossbow. Free choice is the American way of life. Seems SF doesn't agree?

He has confirmed BOTH of the main premises that the Anti Crossbow people have said was the contention. 1. UBK told Mr. Gailor there was no vote by the 3rd District LOKS... Digits confirmed it. Apparently, SF thinks the caller was a pro-crossbow caller......how riduculous.

The lie was that Mr. Gailor was told there WAS a vote and it was PRO Xbow. HE THOUGHT UBK lied to him.. they had NOT..(I Know this one is tough to follow.. especially in print) Gailer never mentioned that the caller was a UBK member. I have the tape and will sell you a copy for $15

2. The PUBLIC Agenda was not properly written. It did not disclose ANY change in the rules for archery.. (Yes the Cyberhunters were aware.. but cyberhunters is NOT the public agenda) Goes to knowing the system and how it's played--attend the committee meeting an learn the process

3. ONE MORE TIME>..
YES.. the numbers in Ohio are great.. deer kills are increasing. I agree with your numbers..
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE PERCENTAGES...
MORE Xbow kills / More Bucks thand does
Archery is STAGNANT... ARCHERY NUMBERS by PERCENTAGE are down... yes the numbers are up over 1986.. but the percentages are not..
The number of Archery HUNTERS is not increasing.