Crossbow passed

[redbone]

Final vote 5 to 4.

[ceohunter]

Darn, now I have to go spend some money on a new crossbow, why couldn't they just leave well enough alone? I really wanted a new shotgun!

[SixPack07]

WOW! Now it is settled I guess. So what are all of the rules that go along with it?

[RDL270]

ceohunter..........I think I'd get the shotgun anyway. The one thing I hate about archery equipment and I'm sure crossbows would be the same, they depreciate in value so quick. Guns not as bad........... Come on up and we'll go shoot some clays with it!!!

[superrman77]

Well I guess we have a little more to choose from in archery season.

[quackrstackr]

Them boys don't waste any time do they?

[SixPack07]

No kidding, what was it, a one minute meeting? I still would get the shotgun as well. More you can use it for, and I don't know about crossbows, but like someone else said, bows aren't worth much after you buy them. Just like a vehicle, lose value as soon as they leave the store, but guns hold their value a lot better.

[Louhunter]

It was going to pass no matter what.... I still will not hunt with such a "bow" so the x-box industry will make nothing from me on this.

[Houndog]

Any details yet ?

DID THEY CHANGE THIS DETAIL.

"Equipment fitted with any type of device that holds the string at full or partial draw without aid from the hunter can NOT be used during bow-only season."

DETIALS ?

THANKS FOR LETTING US KNOW THE OUTCOME SO SOON.

[lab]

There goes the neighborhood.:rolleyes:

[Old Oak]

I have been keeping quiet on the crossbow issue. But I am glad to say I am 100% in favor of the decision to allow their use during the entire archery season.

[Raider]

I would venture to say that they already had their minds made up from the get go. :mad:

[buckfever]

I was at the meeting this morning, and yes, the measure did pass. Interestingly, the swing vote was Louisville's Commish, Allen Gailor. Commish Gailor said he was going to vote the wishes of his constituents and that he was planning to vote "no" based largely on the fact that someone had specifically told him that the League was "against" this measure. Although I'm not in the League and have no knowledge about the outcome of any votes, if any, Tom Conely informed Mr. Gailor that this representation about a vote was not true and that the League had never voted against allowing crossbows. Although he was in front of me and I couldn't hear him clearly, I think that he said that the League appeared to be fairly evenly divided on the issue. Apparently, whomever had talked w/ Commish Gailor had lied (i.e. by telling Gailor that the League had voted and was against this), and it pissed off Gailor enough that he went ahead and voted for it.

Although both sides had valid points and obviously felt strongly about their positions, it was, in all respects, a cordial meeting, and members of the public, such as myself, were allowed to participate. I urged the commission to reject the proposal. Oh well, c'est la vie. Gotta run and go buy a xbow!!!!

[quackrstackr]

Wow... not so much as a flash....

I expected something much more dramatic when the world officially ended........


:D

[Beaver_]

So is this just for the '05-'06 season? Will this be looked at again anytime soon. I am really against this. Crossbow has it's own season and anyone disabled can get a permit. Why/how did this pass? Ridiculous!!!

[turk2di]

So is this just for the '05-'06 season? Will this be looked at again anytime soon. I am really against this. Crossbow has it's own season and anyone disabled can get a permit. Why/how did this pass? Ridiculous!!!
A 5-4 vote at least gives hope to those against it? NOT! It's done!

[Beaver_]

Not exactly. It does give all the lazy hunters hope though. ;) Me, I'll continue to pack my bow. Hopefully it won't last long.

[buckfever]

A 5-4 vote at least gives hope to those against it? NOT! It's done!

Interestingly, Commish Hensley said before the vote that the Commission would rethink the issue if it ever becomes apparent they made a mistake. I'd love to see them tell the 20,000 new xbow purchasers that they can no longer hunt with that weapon. I agree that if approved by the legislature, it's here to stay.

[Beaver_]

I'd love to see them tell the 20,000 new xbow purchasers that they can no longer hunt with that weapon.

That's the reason it will not be overturned. I'm just crying over spilled milk. I just don't see the reasoning behind the proposition and the decision:confused: :rolleyes:

[quackrstackr]

Interestingly, Commish Hensley said before the vote that the Commission would rethink the issue if it ever becomes apparent they made a mistake. I'd love to see them tell the 20,000 new xbow purchasers that they can no longer hunt with that weapon. I agree that if approved by the legislature, it's here to stay.

How many thousands of people in AR are stuck with an armada of mechanical decoys after this year that they can no longer use... at nearly $100 a pop and on up?

It could happen, and should if it should so prove itself to be a bad decision.

I have a sneaky suspicion it is in fact here to stay though.

[buckfever]

That's the reason it will not be overturned. I'm just crying over spilled milk. I just don't see the reasoning behind the proposition and the decision:confused: :rolleyes:

The Dept's stance was that this decision was based solely upon social not resource issues. Gassett said that there was no sound evidence clearly showing that xbows would add hunters in Kentucky, but he added that his data showed that xbows would not adversely affect deer or turkey numbers. Tom Bennett, however, thought that xbows might add new hunters to the fold and passed out a sheet showing a rise in KY youth hunters over the last few years. He suggested that this was at least some anecdotal evidence to believe that the availability of xbows might attract some additional youths to hunting. Don't worry Beaver, I'm crying with you.

[buckfever]

How many thousands of people in AR are stuck with an armada of mechanical decoys after this year that they can no longer use... at nearly $100 a pop and on up?

It could happen, and should if it should so prove itself to be a bad decision.

I have a sneaky suspicion it is in fact here to stay though.

I hear ya. That must've been a tough push down in AR. It's tough to do what you believe is the right thing for the resource when people have hard earned dollars already invested. At least when they made that decison, they let hunters have the 2004-2005 season to get their money's worth out of their existing mojos. However, I hold out no hope whatsoever that xbows will ever be limited in KY if it turns out to be a bad thing for the resource. Any changes limiting harvests or seasons will affect both vertical archers as well as xbowers.

[Beaver_]

You know, that is a good point though? My uncle just loves to hunt but can't stand bow hunting. He never goes out with us and I wish he would more ofter. He did just say the other day that if this passed that we would be seeing a lot more of him. Looking at the bright side, I am happy about that. ...but still crying a little.

[Louhunter]

Tom Bennett, however, thought that xbows might add new hunters to the fold and passed out a sheet showing a rise in KY youth hunters over the last few years.

So Tom Bennett believes that somone who has never purchased a deer license will nowdo so because a x-bow is legal? I sorry, but no way!!!!! I would only believe this IF you must purchase a license for each equipment type ie. Muzzle loader, modern gun, bow, and now x-bow...

[buckfever]

Tom Bennett, however, thought that xbows might add new hunters to the fold and passed out a sheet showing a rise in KY youth hunters over the last few years.

So Tom Bennett believes that somone who has never purchased a deer license will nowdo so because a x-bow is legal? I sorry, but no way!!!!! I would only believe this IF you must purchase a license for each equipment type ie. Muzzle loader, modern gun, bow, and now x-bow...

I'm with you wholeheartedly on this point. We all know that at least 95% of all deer hunters get started with a gun. It wasn't a big point in the overall context of the meeting, but it was put out there.

[AteUp]

So I guess it's "crossbow season" now and your allowed to use bows if you want. Kind of like the other seasons, gun, ml etc.

[Beaver_]

So I guess it's "crossbow season" now and your allowed to use bows if you want. Kind of like the other seasons, gun, ml etc.

And that'll be the truth of it!

[C.L.Button]

Hey Guys,,, It is another form of hunting ISN'T IT ???

JUST like fishing,, you have different kinds of rods to catch fish with. SO WHAT if somebody wants to hunt with a Crossbow,, atleast he/she is supporting HUNTING !!!

MY kids can't pull a 65# Compound Bow, but they can do a Crossbow. SO guess what ??? They will ALL be getting new Crossbows from the Easter Bunny so that they can practice this summer !!!

SO what kind of Cheese and Crackers do you want with that WINE !!! We are all happy to hunt aren't we ???

YOU GUYS should be happy that they don't outlaw Compound Bows like they did Disc Muzzleloaders out West . Make you guys shoot Recurves because a Compound gives you an unfair advantage over the animal AND it is not "Traditional like your Ancestors".

I don't get into politics, but I couldn't let this bashing go on any longer without speaking my 2cts worth.

THANKS,,,,

[Beaver_]

I don't get into politics, but I couldn't let this bashing go on any longer without speaking my 2cts worth.


Just relax and take a breath CL, no one is bashing here like some of the other posts. I personally didn't see any reason to pass the cp bows. Now, thanks to good interaction from some of the people on her, I feel a little different.

IMO, or shall I say in one of my opinions, allowing crossbows just leads to making it easier and easier to harvest a deer. Just like this www.live-shot.com (http://www.live-shot.com), things are going to get out of hand eventually. So I just didn't see enough reason to pass this.

Now, in contrast, someone pointed out that the reason was to get others out there, ie more hunters. I never thought of that and I think that's great. It will strengthen the cause, and I'm for that.

Not that I'm trying to straddle the fence, I was/am against it's passing because I feel a little more strongly against the passing of cb's in the whole archery season.

I'm done crying now. :D

[westkybanded]

I for one plan to eventually join the "lazy bowhunter" club. I figure I've taken deer with a bow, gun, muzzleloader... Why not a crossbow?? Next step for me was a sharp stick!!

[buckfever]

Hey Guys,,, It is another form of hunting ISN'T IT ???

THANKS,,,,

I don't think anybody would disagree with you there. At the end of the day, we all are hunters. I think the real issue in this particular case boils down to when and to what extent that you're allowed to use your selected weapon. For example, the gunhunters would go ballistic if a muzzleloader organization was attempting to move the late ml season to the first week of November. The impact on the resource wouldn't change much, but the social dynamics sure would. Weapon-specific hunters like to have seasons that best suit their interests, and gunhunters carry the biggest sticks. Nothing wrong with that. Here, at least on the social end of things, the bowhunters simply didn't want another weapon during "their" season. The commission, however, felt differently. Not that the die is cast, we all should hope that this doesn't affect our deer/turkey resources or the quality of each of our own experiences in the woods.

[bunniebuster]

why would a muzzle loading group try to move the season you can shoot a muzzleloader the whole gun season just like you can shoot x-bow the whole archery season:confused:

[b1jeremy]

does anyone think that this will adversly affect the pressure of Bow(s) season? i figured alot more hunters...alot more pressure...

[Dennis]

Hey i think thats pretty cool, i might just look into a new crossbow to extend my season a bit.:)

[ecmbowhunter]

anybody priced a good crossbow lately?.....that fact alone will keep a lot of folks from running out and buying....as far as the actual issue?......doesn't bother me one bit, i just might get the urge one day, but nothing gets the blood pumping like trying to draw on a bruiser while he's on full alert and your heart is about to explode and you are hyperventilating but only taking shallow half breaths......then comes that hide piercing smack and you feel like you're gonna fall out of your stand because your knees are shaking .....anybody ready for BOW season yet?

[buckfever]

why would a muzzle loading group try to move the season you can shoot a muzzleloader the whole gun season just like you can shoot x-bow the whole archery season:confused:

Bunnie - I was just trying to point out that politically speaking, it's easier to make changes which affect smaller groups of hunters (i.e. bowhunters) than those affecting large groups (i.e. rifle hunters). If the Dept ever decided that moving gun season back a week to allow breeding to occur would be good for the resource, it would be very difficult to pass the measure b/c people like hunting right on the rut. Similarly, people who exclusively rifle hunt would throw a fit if the dept said that M/L's could be shot during all of archery season.

Even the State's rep, Jon Gassett, said there was no evidence that the xbow season would add any "new" hunters. Instead, this was about allowing an existing group of hunters (gunhunters) a new opportunity to explore new weapons and expand their season.

[plowboy]

I still don't understand, does this mean it is official that you can start hunting with a xbow on Sep 3 or does the legislature have to change some laws?????

[Willie]

anybody priced a good crossbow lately?.....that fact alone will keep a lot of folks from running out and buying....


A word of advice from a crossbower to any future crossbowers.

Crossbows are like anything else - you get what you pay for.You can go from a POS low end to a top of the line just like in vertical bows.

A lot of folks get a low end crossbow to see if they "like them" and end up dissapointed in them and quit crossbowing. Buy quality from the git go and you wont be disappointed in what they can do.They are fine hunting tools.

I did 6 months of research on different brands before I decided on what to buy. My personal favorite is the Excalibur line. All recurve limbed (I can do all the work on them myself - change a string once in awhile) non-nonsense crossbows that are just as fast (if not faster) and just as accurate (if not more accurate) than the compound crosbows. Top price about $550*.

In the wheelie (compound) crossbows my choice would be theTenPoint. Top price about $800*.

* Give or take a hundred bucks.

[C.L.Button]

ECMBOWHUNTER you have a very valid point on $$$ it will cost someone to purchase a decent Crossbow. I don't think most folks will shell out $500 to $1500 for a Crossbow.

I for one plan to do some research before my purchase, however I am already leaning towards the Excaliber. I have some books comming and would welcome all recommendations. THANKS,,,,,

[Big58cal]

I was at the meeting this morning, and yes, the measure did pass. Interestingly, the swing vote was Louisville's Commish, Allen Gailor. Commish Gailor said he was going to vote the wishes of his constituents and that he was planning to vote "no" based largely on the fact that someone had specifically told him that the League was "against" this measure. Although I'm not in the League and have no knowledge about the outcome of any votes, if any, Tom Conely informed Mr. Gailor that this representation about a vote was not true and that the League had never voted against allowing crossbows. Although he was in front of me and I couldn't hear him clearly, I think that he said that the League appeared to be fairly evenly divided on the issue. Apparently, whomever had talked w/ Commish Gailor had lied (i.e. by telling Gailor that the League had voted and was against this), and it pissed off Gailor enough that he went ahead and voted for it.
I called Gailor and voiced my opinion FOR the crossbow. The deal about the supposed "LKS decision" just goes to show you, don't try to lie to someone on a fact. It might just turn around and bite you on the butt.

Crossbow has it's own season and anyone disabled can get a permit. Why/how did this pass? Ridiculous!!!
Sure you want to say that..............Wanna' eat those words............ BTW, how about limiting the "bowhunters" to a 10 day season and giving the crossbow shooters from Sept. to Jan.? Sounds good to me!

It does give all the lazy hunters hope though.
Sure you want to say that...............Wanna' eat those words........... BTW, by saying that, you're calling quite a few people "lazy hunters" that you know nothing about. Want to call ME lazy??? I've taken several deer with a "regular" bow, so I do "bowhunt". I am also a previous State Chairman for the IBEP (International Bowhunter Education Program)..........BTW, where "crossbows" are strictly 'taboo'. Not to mention, I let a bunch of sadistic SOB's take me on a grouse hunt a couple of years ago and try to kill me! They tried, but didn't succeed!!! Since that time though, I've gotten in quite a bit better shape and lost quite a bit of weight. My point is, whether or not you thought about it, you called me "LAZY". I may be able to walk your butt into the dirt............. I may also be able to hunt your butt into the dirt.............. I've shot "regular" bows for several years, and have gotten the shoulder and elbow injuries to prove it! Where do you get off calling ME lazy, considering that you know nothing about me?

My uncle just loves to hunt but can't stand bow hunting. He never goes out with us and I wish he would more ofter. He did just say the other day that if this passed that we would be seeing a lot more of him. Looking at the bright side, I am happy about that. ...but still crying a little.
So how do those words start to go down? Little tough to swallow?

It is another form of hunting ISN'T IT ???

JUST like fishing,, you have different kinds of rods to catch fish with. SO WHAT if somebody wants to hunt with a Crossbow,, at least he/she is supporting HUNTING !!!
No truer words were ever spoken! All those that are against the crossbow being in "your" season, think about this. Since the vast majority of the hunters in the state are gun hunters...................AND since approx. 80% of the population out there are non-hunters, with approx. 10% being hunting, and the other 10% being anti-hunting, do you really want to try to PISS OFF the vast majority of hunters in the state by calling them "NOT TRUE HUNTERS", "LAZY HUNTERS", "CHEATERS", etc, etc, etc.????? News Flash!!! "Bowhunter" are a big minority within the state. Do you really want to piss off people, that would otherwise be on your side, by calling them names? If so, tell me, just where do you think these people would stand when it comes down to, for example, outlawing recurve or longbows, because they are inefficent or inhumane?

Beaver, I'm not trying to single you our or pick on you in any way (believe it or not). I simply used your posts to show everyone that all of the griping on this issue is truely because of a lack of knowledge and/or selfishness. Once you remembered that your uncle could start hunting with you more, your attitude changed about the issue. Is this selfishness on your part now because you stand to benefit from it???????? Everyone see what I'm talking about? How is this change going to hurt someone that wants to take a longbow, recurve, or compound bow? No one on here has shown any negative impacts from this or anything other than personal opinion on what it "may" do.

I haven't posted on here in quite a while. The main reason is that there is so much griping and complaining about anything and everything! This issue is a prime example, and YES, I'm griping and complaining right now..........................................But it doesn't hold a candle to the 52+ pages of discussion already going on another thread! Everyone is so emotional about THEIR seasons and such that no one can say anything. I realize that there are people out there ("bowhunters"), that don't want "their" season being "invaded" by crossbow shooters. This is pure selfishness and nothing else. If anyone has any numbers otherwise, give them to me. I'm all about numbers, statistics, and percentages. If this is a bad thing (NOW LISTEN TO ME HERE), that will harm the resource, or the public opinion of the 80% of NON-HUNTERS out there, let me hear it! Remember, I don't want personal opinions, I want facts and figures that prove otherwise.

As I mentioned earlier, I've taken several deer with a "regular" bow. To me, it got boring. I started using a shotgun after that. Then a muzzleloader. Now, I'm into pistol hunting. With this change, I'm going to get a crossbow now. Not that my screwed up shoulders and elbows have anything to do with it mind you.............BTW, in case you're wondering, my Dr. told me that he would write me exemption so that I could apply to the KDFWR for a disability permit to use a crossbow. I didn't do it this past year. Because of it, I got to go deer hunting two weekends this past year, once with a muzzleloader, once with a pistol/rifle. I couldn't pull my bow(s) back. Now..............here's a good one.....Since I'm now primarily a gun hunter (and knowing what I do about all of the people bitching and griping on here), do you really think that I'll support anything what-so-ever to do with "bowhunters"? Actually, as long as someone is hunting period, I'm happy! But I'm sure you get my point.

I'm done for another few months. If anyone wants to get in touch with me, send me a PM so I'll be notifed by email, because you probably won't catch me on here..............Tends to raise my blood pressure too much!

[DUOGLIDE]

dont let the door hit you on the way out

[skin_dog1]

I'm done for another few months. If anyone wants to get in touch with me, send me a PM so I'll be notifed by email, because you probably won't catch me on here..............Tends to raise my blood pressure too much!
I hate to say it, but if things here get you that upset then maybe it's best that you stay hidden. I've exchanged words with many on here and have never left mad, more likely I left laughing. How on earht people take a few disagreements so bad I'll never understand. I don't like crossbows, you do - so what! Hell, I might buy one just so my grandfather can come to KY hunt with me when the orange army isn't out. You aren't likely to catch me in the woods with one, cause I see no use. I don't find them superior or inferior so I'll continue to use my high tech modern compound. As far as lazy hunters taking up the sport, then I'd say that most of the folks that take it up and have never participated in archery befroe will be those that did not want to go through the trouble to bet the disabled permit, or those that strictly rifle hunt and are under the misconception that xbows are gonna provide them a superior way to kill deer during bow season. Thats my opinion and I'm entitled to it. I don't really care if you or anyone else disagrees, it's your right and thats what this forum is for - to openly discuss issues pertaining to hunting in KY. If you think you aren't gonna get disagreements than you live in a dream land. If you think you can pusuade everyone to come around to your way of thinking then you are sadly mistaken. I'll bet that all of these discussions have only slightly changed anyones Poiunt of view, and very few if any have swapped sides of the fence. All the arguing did no good casue the commision did waht they wanted in the end just as always.

[b1jeremy]

i hope that fellow wont be disheartened when he hears he wont be missed...he was a little smarta** with those points...if he would have came across a little more...maturely..then i may have cared...but to try and undercut people...thats sad...

[JSI Kodiak]

Can someone tell me how each commissioners voted on this issue?

[creekdawgg]

I dont care if anyone wants to use them but when your buddy jokes you out cause you are using a crossbow dont get mad, you deserve it unless you have a Condition and really need one. Otherwise be a man and pcik up a stick bow. I hope people will view people that use crossbows to people that use VAGISIL :p

[Beaver_]

Can someone tell me how each commissioners voted on this issue?

Sorry JSI, I can't but buckfever probably can once he sees your post. I just wanted to say thanks for getting us back on track.

Big58Cal!!! Canyou hear me yet??? ........good! You need some medication. What is with all of the brow beating? You apparently have issues. I started reading your post and stopped when I realized your character... You must have had a bad day or something. I hope the sun shines better for you in the morning.

Goodnight everyone!

[kycurhunter]

great...gonna sight in the one i bought my son when he fractured his elbow.

:D :) :rolleyes:

[Big58cal]

b1jeremy, I was here long before you were, and I'll probably be here long after you're done. I was also the Sgt. of Arms for Cyberhunters when they were first founded, but resigned my position with the organization so that I could spend more time with my little boy. He's growing up, and I want to be a part of it, and not spend the entire time on the PC.

Beaver, as far as your last post, I wasn't trying to single you out. You did that yourself with your posts. I was simply trying to show that what everyone thinks, is not always true. You went from totally condemning this issue to accepting is because you had something to gain from it. To me, that shows selfishness on your part from the very beginning.

Sorry if I came off as a smart-ass, but I've been reading this stuff for about 4-5 days now. Everyone that's posted has had their opinions as to why this shouldn't be. From some of the stuff, you'd think that everyone needed to run for cover because the end of the world was near. If this issue is going to increase the total # of hours that people spend in the woods, increase participation (as with Beaver's uncle), and possibly increase the harvest in areas that need it, how can it be bad?

Honestly, I doubt I'll get a crossbow. Guess I'll just be one of the disgruntled gun hunters that are tired of all of the fuss from "bowhunters" that don't want someone "inferior" using a crossbow, infringing on THEIR season. Good luck on your own if "bowhunting" issues come up to be banned/eliminated. Think I'm alone on this? Think again. How many hundreds of thousands of people participate in the gun season? How many bowhunters are there in the state? You're crazy if you think that bowhunters alone can carry any such initive on their own. Like it or not, bowhunters need the gun hunting public on their side. If the die-hard bowhunters succeed in pissing the majority of these people off with issues like this, do you think they'll stand up with you if an issue THAT TRUELY AFFECTS YOU comes up, like outlawing longbows, recurves, compound bows, or crossbows?

[b1jeremy]

great..all we need is someone with your frame of mind to let those peta freaks here what a fellow "hunter" has to say...i could really care less about how long you been here...where you been and where you plan to go...i just simply made a few statements and with trying to put yourself on a pedestool...do what you think your rank can handle...but i definately dont appreciate you trying to make others feel "inferior" to you...i have no problems with gun hunters or any of that...just more people to socialize with and to swap stories with...so carry on with your attack on the people here..1 thing i will say...i didnt realize that they let people who like to slander others as much as you do even speak...btw...you are the first issue i have ever had with anyone on here...so with that i will say dont even reply to this because im not even going to check this post anymore...

[gwhilikerz]

I dont care if anyone wants to use them but when your buddy jokes you out cause you are using a crossbow dont get mad, you deserve it unless you have a Condition and really need one. Otherwise be a man and pcik up a stick bow. I hope people will view people that use crossbows to people that use VAGISIL :p
Now i'm gonna get a crossbow for sure! Maybe I'll see you in the woods sometime. If I do be sure and repeat what you just said:mad:

[creekdawgg]

Get over it it was a joke. but if you want I'll give you the address and you can come visit.

[b1jeremy]

lmfao..some people take this to the extreme huh?

[creekdawgg]

lmfao..some people take this to the extreme huh?

They sure do, Some people never grow out of high school if you know what I mean.

[AteUp]

Now i'm gonna get a crossbow for sure! Maybe I'll see you in the woods sometime. If I do be sure and repeat what you just said:mad:

It wouldn't be a fair fight g. you'll already be at full draw, cocked and locked.

[coondog]

It wouldn't be a fair fight g. you'll already be at full draw, cocked and locked.

That is a good one!

All of this in my mind is just like having a family and working out issues. It ain't always gonna go smoothly and opinions are like a-wholes...everyone has one including you Big58. Go out in the woods and cool off or take a valium, whatever it takes.

[gwhilikerz]

Guys it was supposed to be a joke. I guess this subject is just too divisive to make light of.

[abssprint]

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on the crossbow issue...I do know that there will be nobody hunting with a crossbow on any of my property, so I guess the question just becomes whether or not it will negagtively impact Ky's deer herd as a whole..If not then it doesn't effect me. The problem I have with the whole deal is the fact that this issue and alot of other Ky hunting issue are voted on and put into place with very little input from actual hunters. It's pretty bad when you only hear about these types of issues either right before or right after they have been put in place. Our Telecheck system is absolutely terrible..I would bet my paycheck that there were 25,000 more deer killed than reported..There has to be something done about this!!! Almost everybody has access to some sort of email nowadays, how hard would it be for the KDWFR to send an email out when new issue comes up with the hunting and fishing regs in order to get input from people who are out there and would like to get involved, but don't know how..They could set something up on there website for you to submit your email if you wanted this kind of info..It wouldn't cost anything, because they wouldn't have to actually mail anything out..Just an idea..

[ecmbowhunter]

good grief.....it passed ......get over it, i listen to enough of this CRAP from my kids.

[Beaver_]

Here's my take and final post for now.

Yes, it did pass. I am against it, but I am over it. I am glad I will be hunting more with my uncle, and possibly other hunters. I personally look down on the fact that it takes so much technology to get someone out in the woods and that is my main point. But, all-in-all, I can overlook that and will make light of this because there isn't much that can be done now. It's not about being selfish! ARE YOU LISTENING BIG58? .....GOOD!!!

Whenever I get the chance, I will voice my opinion when it counts. I, like others, wish that I would have known more about it before it was passed. I can only blame myself for not staying up on current issues, but I don't think it was put out there for all hunters to see, readily.

Anyways, I just want to move on. I have always wanted to try out a crossbow, but it would probably be a while before I decide to make the big purchase. I can guarantee you though, I would rarely use it, just like my gun. I love the extreme challenge with a bow. Heck, I may even try using a recurve instead of my compund. That's just me, my story and I'm stickin to it.

GOD BLESS US ALL! May we all just be glad we are able to spend time in nature and appreciate what God has given us...

[heartshot]

I Am Totally Against Cry Babies And Winers........ Oh, That Wasn't Even The Topic Of This Thread. Was It? Never Mind.

[Beaver_]

Let it be known that I made no attack on Big58. He says I did but I didn't. I don't even know the guy. He jumped out in a fury and never asked for clarification on my part for his misunderstanding.

He took things on a personal basis and I can't control that. IMO, he should have been a little more relaxed and asked some questions instead of being so defensive.

I don't hold grudges or anything silly like that, but it's hard to respect someone that comes out like that. What else can I say? This is a forum of opinions and some facts. We all need to understand that.

I am moving on with this. I hate all of the bashing that goes on here sometimes and I won't take part in it.

[Multidigits]

I was at the meeting this morning, and yes, the measure did pass. Interestingly, the swing vote was Louisville's Commish, Allen Gailor. Commish Gailor said he was going to vote the wishes of his constituents and that he was planning to vote "no" based largely on the fact that someone had specifically told him that the League was "against" this measure. Although I'm not in the League and have no knowledge about the outcome of any votes, if any, Tom Conely informed Mr. Gailor that this representation about a vote was not true and that the League had never voted against allowing crossbows. Although he was in front of me and I couldn't hear him clearly, I think that he said that the League appeared to be fairly evenly divided on the issue. Apparently, whomever had talked w/ Commish Gailor had lied (i.e. by telling Gailor that the League had voted and was against this), and it pissed off Gailor enough that he went ahead and voted for it.

Although both sides had valid points and obviously felt strongly about their positions, it was, in all respects, a cordial meeting, and members of the public, such as myself, were allowed to participate. I urged the commission to reject the proposal. Oh well, c'est la vie. Gotta run and go buy a xbow!!!!


This post is totally inaccurate. Had I not seen Ballard stumble through his presentation, you wouldn't even know that he was in attendance at the meeting.

When he mentions the LEAGUE, he actually means the 3rd District Federation, was is merely an arm of the Leaugue. A Federation does not represent the League on any vote. e.i.- If a Federation held a vote and it showed that they supported a certain issue, then that still would not mean that the League supported that same issue.

Mr. Gailor had been lied to by a caller about the results of the 3rd District Federation, and he was going to support the Federation on what he was told was a unanimous vote held at that Federation meeting. The facts are there was no vote at that Federation meeting to even know what level of support was there or not there on the crossbow issue.

Tom Conely did not speak for the LKS (League), and only spoke to combat the obvious lie told to Mr. Gailor. Had this lie not been told, I had no intetion of speaking even though there were several others there that also put out some untrue statments.

The LKS is astate wide organization, representing all sporting groups and individuals. The LKS held no vote on this issue. Rick Hahn had premission to speak for the President of the LKS who couldn't attend because of a family illness. Rick was sitting next to me, and we shared notes during the hearing. Had Rick got the chance to speak on behalf of the LKS, he would have said that the LKS had no official stance because of what I stated before, but being that the UBK and the KBA are afiliated statewide clubs, that we do support those groups--or something to that effect. Rick can clarify when he gets time to post something.

After the meeting, one of the LKS Board members also got a call that was a lie about me personally. And what I said during the meeting.

I have a tape of the meeting and can varify what I said and what was said during the whole meeting by all the speakers.

Some of the UBK speakers did a fairly poor job-IMO. Mike Whalen and Rick Hahn presented their talk the best and made positive points. Both are quality guys and should be appreciated by all sportsmen for their service.

I don't believe that Gailor was the swing vote but what do I know? He had calls for both sides and appeared to waiver on how to vote. The misleading call certainly didn't help the UBK out one bit, nor did the abuse that other Commission members recieved from some callers. Others screwed up by mentioning that they were calling from outside of their district.

Anyone that was there had several print out available to those there so that you could follow the meeting. All of those that had the word 'archery' printed on them also had the '/crossbow' behind it. I think somebody anticipated this passing at least in time to print up the papers.

Have a good day, the world won't come to an end over this issue. Thanks to all that participated in the process, pro or con.

[westkybanded]

Multi,

What does it take at this point to make it "official"? Is this taking effect during this season or some season in the future? Does the legislature have to pass a measure on it now?

I'm pretty ignorant as to how this all works. I know that kdfwr does alot without legislative approval, but some things apparently require it.

Thanks!

[Highbow]

It is now part of the regulations for fall and I would expect that FINN will post a full list of changes or Multi or Xtreme will tomorrow.

[kevhunter]

I love this stuff. It is like Jerry Springer without the girls actually slapping each other.

[grinder]

This post is totally inaccurate. Had I not seen Ballard stumble through his presentation, you wouldn't even know that he was in attendance at the meeting.

When he mentions the LEAGUE, he actually means the 3rd District Federation, was is merely an arm of the Leaugue. A Federation does not represent the League on any vote. e.i.- If a Federation held a vote and it showed that they supported a certain issue, then that still would not mean that the League supported that same issue.

Mr. Gailor had been lied to by a caller about the results of the 3rd District Federation, and he was going to support the Federation on what he was told was a unanimous vote held at that Federation meeting. The facts are there was no vote at that Federation meeting to even know what level of support was there or not there on the crossbow issue.

Tom Conely did not speak for the LKS (League), and only spoke to combat the obvious lie told to Mr. Gailor. Had this lie not been told, I had no intetion of speaking even though there were several others there that also put out some untrue statments.

The LKS is astate wide organization, representing all sporting groups and individuals. The LKS held no vote on this issue. Rick Hahn had premission to speak for the President of the LKS who couldn't attend because of a family illness. Rick was sitting next to me, and we shared notes during the hearing. Had Rick got the chance to speak on behalf of the LKS, he would have said that the LKS had no official stance because of what I stated before, but being that the UBK and the KBA are afiliated statewide clubs, that we do support those groups--or something to that effect. Rick can clarify when he gets time to post something.

After the meeting, one of the LKS Board members also got a call that was a lie about me personally. And what I said during the meeting.

I have a tape of the meeting and can varify what I said and what was said during the whole meeting by all the speakers.

Some of the UBK speakers did a fairly poor job-IMO. Mike Whalen and Rick Hahn presented their talk the best and made positive points. Both are quality guys and should be appreciated by all sportsmen for their service.

I don't believe that Gailor was the swing vote but what do I know? He had calls for both sides and appeared to waiver on how to vote. The misleading call certainly didn't help the UBK out one bit, nor did the abuse that other Commission members recieved from some callers. Others screwed up by mentioning that they were calling from outside of their district.

Anyone that was there had several print out available to those there so that you could follow the meeting. All of those that had the word 'archery' printed on them also had the '/crossbow' behind it. I think somebody anticipated this passing at least in time to print up the papers.

Have a good day, the world won't come to an end over this issue. Thanks to all that participated in the process, pro or con.
i overheard you reprimanded there at the commission meeting during break about lying about the NWTF supporting the crossbow season. i even heard you apologize.

[Multidigits]

Multi,

What does it take at this point to make it "official"? Is this taking effect during this season or some season in the future? Does the legislature have to pass a measure on it now?

I'm pretty ignorant as to how this all works. I know that kdfwr does alot without legislative approval, but some things apparently require it.

Thanks!


It's OFFICIAL now, starts the first Saturday in Sept. this year. That's Sept. 3 this year. Enjoy the added oppurtunity :)

[grinder]

funny how some posts are totally ignored by multi

[Multidigits]

i overheard you reprimanded there at the commission meeting during break about lying about the NWTF supporting the crossbow season. i even heard you apologize.

Your likely to hear anything about me in the near future. what really happened was that the current President and myself had a nice chat and I explained what what done and what was said and why. He did not seem upset and if he was didn't express it. The recent past president contacted me about what I said about the Sat. opener and it not being the truth. I asked what part wasn't the truth so that I could correct it. He would not say, only that it wasn't accurate. My sources say my earlier comment was accurate. He's was obviously not pleased with me, and he wasn't the only one in the room with that opinion. My name was drug through the mud by several, including my CO buddy. I pretty much expected it, and I'm surprised it wasn't worse. If you were there, you should have introduced yourself. Sorry I missed you.

[Multidigits]

funny how some posts are totally ignored by multi

Get a grip grinder. :eek:

[grinder]

fact is, you lied about that, and that NWTF guy reprimanded you and you apologized, which was in essence a confession. but you got what you wanted, the crossbow proposal passed. thats a good way to get things done!

[Multidigits]

I'll review the tape, can you help and tell me which NWTF guy your talking about?
Second, there were many lies told during the weeks before crossbow, and after the Commission vote, yet very few by me. What I reported on the NWTF can be varified for the record if I need to, which I don't see happening. I didn't confess, because I had nothing that need confessing for. Isn't that something you do in church?

Again, if the NWTF guy had taken time to say what I posted that wasn't true then I may have appoligized if I was in error.

I appologized for the UBK guy that cussed out Tom Baker and called him a F****** idiot.

I appoligized to my friend who is a UBK member for anything I did to cause him any internal trouble from a few of the radical members.

I'm not beyond appoligizing but won't do it for merely expressing my interest in crossbows.


;) man, I love these smiley faces!

[grinder]

Your likely to hear anything about me in the near future. what really happened was that the current President and myself had a nice chat and I explained what what done and what was said and why. He did not seem upset and if he was didn't express it. The recent past president contacted me about what I said about the Sat. opener and it not being the truth. I asked what part wasn't the truth so that I could correct it. He would not say, only that it wasn't accurate. My sources say my earlier comment was accurate. He's was obviously not pleased with me, and he wasn't the only one in the room with that opinion. My name was drug through the mud by several, including my CO buddy. I pretty much expected it, and I'm surprised it wasn't worse. If you were there, you should have introduced yourself. Sorry I missed you.
my problem is making untrue statements to accomplish what you want. we both had our own agendas,you pro, me con. i did not speak, as i'm just not a good speaker, but if i had spoke i would have spoke only the truth, as i have posted only the truth on this forum. i'm sure you are as passionet about this as me, but to stoop to underhanded acts as that makes me question the validity of anything you would post or say.
i'm sure you are up on the policies ,statistics and so forth of what goes on with KDFW, way more than me, but unless i had factual proof of the point i argued, i would not have made the statement. peace brother

[Multidigits]

QUOTE=grinder]my problem is making untrue statements to accomplish what you want. Post what you think I posted that was "untrue" and I'll address it line by line


i did not speak, as i'm just not a good speaker, but if i had spoke i would have spoke only the truth, as i have posted only the truth on this forum. Are you implying that what I said during the meeting wasn't true. I guess you didn't see that it was varified by one UBK member and one other person that was at the Federation meeting?

i'm sure you are as passionet about this as me, but to stoop to underhanded acts as that makes me question the validity of anything you would post or say. First of all, nothing I did was underhanded or beyond the scenes, unlike the UBK Strategy meeting and the personal attacks on me and the Commissioners and the KYDFWR people who conducted the poll.
Most of the points that I made in the weeks before the vote, and the data I used was covered by the biologists inthe meeting. Jim Strader's points (all of them) were unfounded and shot down, Ballard Rogers was shot down on his buck/doe argument. That was the worse speach I've ever heard from Walt, who is normally well prepared. Two guys, including Joe of the NWTF wanted to table to later, which wasn't an option that anyone considered. You have to remeber the Gassett and Day are Aggressive deer managers and so is the Commission. Mr. Charles made the point that the x-bow is not a bow? think the Commission didn't know that? A Mr. Williams made a poor point that archery season would be eliminated by this change. The Commission didn't buy any of it. another fellow who i missed getting his name commented that the long beard turkey would be eliminated, as most of them are gone now. The same fellow spoke for the new Fall gun seasons not long ago and how the resource is in great shape. Not my dog, but all in all, the UBK side shot their self in the foot on numerous occassions, YET it's all my fault that it passed.

Bottom line is they should have had a back up plan and been prepared to use it. Wayne learned and got what he wanted later on.


i'm sure you are up on the policies ,statistics and so forth of what goes on with KDFW, way more than me, but unless i had factual proof of the point i argued, i would not have made the statement. Again, I don't know what statement your referring to? Post it and i'll address to it.


peace brother

[grinder]

as far as i know it was a comment on one of you're previous threads to the effect that the NWTF was for this (crossbow during bow season) i don't know who the fellow was, but evidently a member, possibly a prominent member of NWTF. the first thing i heard was "i have a bone to pick with you !" and something about the statement you had made about (untrue) and he did not want to see that happen again. you then said you were sorry. deny this conversation took place, and you will leave me a lasting impression, and i will become much more active in KDFW meetings. i do work a swing shift job, and i can make some of the commission meetings with no loss of time between me and my family.

[Riverwolf]

I was there for a while on Friday morning, and witnessed several good speeches,

I think Mr Strader and Mr Rogers gave very valid arguements and presented the facts well, along with the guy that was concerned about the Ky longbeards , even though he said it way too many times, Mr, Whealen was under some sever pressure , you could tell, and I think he did the best job of all, not in your face, but frank and to the point.

I think Jonathan Day is a sorry excuse for a dept employee, coming from alabama or Georgia or whatever the insignificant state he came from does no good up here, intense management in those states are why there are hunters behind every tree, I felt like putting his neck in a vice to keep it from shaking back and forth in disgust of what the opponents of the crossbow were saying. Head south Day, your song may play in the sticks but this is the big league.

Finally I think this whole issue is gona get a lot worse, I live near the tradewaters and have already had several problems with guys using their crossbows to shoot deer from the road at dusk on my property (social Issue)
and have witnessed them shooting at turkeys during deer season from the road too. NWTF I feel sorry for you guys your gona have your hands full with this if it passes legislation.

Hang in there bowhunters, you've got a lot of guys in the shadows on your side.

[grinder]

thanks riverwolf, good to hear from the silent majority

[WBBP]

Grinder: Nice to meet you at the meeting. Glad we found the right building.

K

[LoweBow]

My apologies to all of my UBK brothers. I'm very sorry that I'm not a great speaker and I promise that I will be working on that. Too little....too late at this time. I'm sorry that I did not hit but 2 of the points that I needed to of the 12 on the paper in front of me. Finding out that my father has prostate cancer the day before the meeting didn't help either. (Send a prayer his way please.) I've worked very hard behind the scenes on this. I've stood behind my values and ethics in everything I've done during this debate and I believe that when the majority of UBK members contacted me as to the direction as to which way to take the fight that is the way it was directed. Values and Ethics are the core of what I believe makes us good stewards of the outdoors. Lets not forget those values when we have these "so called" discussions on this contrivertial subject. I'm now trying to find out who lied to Commish. Gailor. I want to know if it was one of my own members. I have always believed in living my life w/ a clear concience and I will not and have never taken a "win" by cheating. I have earned everything I have just as I earn the deer and game I harvest. Someone stretched the truth and in my eyes tryed to get a W by cheating. Mr. Gailor commented to me after the meeting that in one year this would all be forgotten. No it will not IMO. Or at least not w/ me. He urged me to stay active in the political processes of KDFWR and even run for Commish some day. I felt that was much like him patting me on the but and saying "good game" after my team losy, but I will remain active none the less.
I see social issues that will now become opportunity. My little analogy wasn't as much an analogy as some would like to think. There are many opportunities out there where user groups do not ask others to share their time, their land, or their water. What used to be called "user conflict" has now been relabled a "social issue" Many were not there to back us, because "they had no dog in this fight." They may have had more than they'd like to have admitted.
Anyone that feels I failed in my duties please let me know and I'll step down. If not I'll continue driving forward w/ plans for the NASP wild game cookoff in July and I'm also looking into putting on a Bowfishing tourney or kids event at Lake Shelby in Shelbyville for the parks board has contacted me to help them eliminate the carp populations in their newly dredged lake. Anyone that would like to help w/ any of these would be apreciated!
Mike Whelan, Jr.
Still proud to be
UBK Vice Prez.

[creekdawgg]

LoweBow,

I dont know you and I wasnt at the meeting so I dont understand much of what is said but after reading your post, I wanna join the UBK. You seem to be a very honest person and a great leader. If I ever see your name on a ballot I will gladly vote for you. Keep up the good work. Sorry to hear about your father hope all turns out well with that. Thanks dave

[Willie]

Prayers for your Dad.

They have lots of good treatments for prostrate cancer now, but nothing as strong as prayers...

[GSP]

Gentlemen,
I hope everyone read Lowebow's post. Situations in life that he is dealing with are the really important issues of life.
I have met Lowebow a few times and he is a first class act. Last night I heard from the meeting from a pro crossbow person that had only good things to say about Lowebow and how well he presented himself and his cause.
I was unable to attend the meeting yesterday because of family issue that I had to deal with Thursday, again it was an issue that puts life in real prespective.
How about everyone thinking for awhile about this issue and reform their "battles" if need be.
Mike, I hope only for the best for your dad.
Rick-GSP

[gwhilikerz]

I was there for a while on Friday morning, and witnessed several good speeches,

I think Mr Strader and Mr Rogers gave very valid arguements and presented the facts well, along with the guy that was concerned about the Ky longbeards , even though he said it way too many times, Mr, Whealen was under some sever pressure , you could tell, and I think he did the best job of all, not in your face, but frank and to the point.

I think Jonathan Day is a sorry excuse for a dept employee, coming from alabama or Georgia or whatever the insignificant state he came from does no good up here, intense management in those states are why there are hunters behind every tree, I felt like putting his neck in a vice to keep it from shaking back and forth in disgust of what the opponents of the crossbow were saying. Head south Day, your song may play in the sticks but this is the big league.

Finally I think this whole issue is gona get a lot worse, I live near the tradewaters and have already had several problems with guys using their crossbows to shoot deer from the road at dusk on my property (social Issue)
and have witnessed them shooting at turkeys during deer season from the road too. NWTF I feel sorry for you guys your gona have your hands full with this if it passes legislation.

Hang in there bowhunters, you've got a lot of guys in the shadows on your side.
What a load of bunk! I figure from the number of posts that you are one of the other anti-xbow guys undercover. Did you get this nic just to have an extra vote in the polls? Now about the "tradewaters" I live near Tradewater River also. I know there is a lot of poaching, even know some who used to poach, tho the say they have reformed. I never even heard of anyone poaching with a xbow around here. Tell you what. If you witnessed it did you call the Co, sherif, anybody? If poachers are that bold and you are afraid of them send me a PM with their names, license #,location, whatever,and I will inform the CO for you. Like I said, I think you are flying false colors. But you can convince me otherwise.

[gwhilikerz]

LoweBow Your Dad is in my prayers. We may be on different sides on this xbow issue, but I respect what you do for the Sportsmen and especially your org here in KY. This battle is over for now and we can get on to other battles in the future. Since I am an archer and bowhunter I'm sure we will be working toward the same goals most of the time.
Again, I'm sorry about your Dad's illness. Trust in God and follow Drs. advice. My prayers are with your Dad and the family.

[DW]

Don't worry be happy. Why can't everyone view things from a Sportsmen view instead of a special interest view. One would think if the same energy was applied across the board( Not just trying to protect your interest) The Commision might actually listen. A new world may start this coming week. It is my hope that the sportsmen of this state will become one united voice in matters. That is the way you will be heard. Anyone ever hear of divide and conquer?

[GSP]

Don't worry be happy. Why can't everyone view things from a Sportsmen view instead of a special interest view. One would think if the same energy was applied across the board( Not just trying to protect your interest) The Commision might actually listen. A new world may start this coming week. It is my hope that the sportsmen of this state will become one united voice in matters. That is the way you will be heard. Anyone ever hear of divide and conquer?
...AMEN!!!!!

[gwhilikerz]

fact is, you lied about that, and that NWTF guy reprimanded you and you apologized, which was in essence a confession. but you got what you wanted, the crossbow proposal passed. thats a good way to get things done!
Wait a minute grinder! You mean you were close enough to hear all you said you did about multi and you didn't introduce yourself. (I'm getting a mental picture of that little german guy on the old LaughIn show.) You wait until back home to blast him online but won't do it face to face? I've had lots of harsh words with multi on here, heck I don't even like his hometown, but this is a bit much. I know this is a very volatile subject and tempers flare. But it is over for the moment. We need to cool the retoric.

[Riverwolf]

Gwhilikerz, I heard several guys talk about Kyhunting.com at the meeting on Friday, I never knew it existed, and that is why my posts are low, obviously you spend your time here.

actually , I've been reading things on this site for several hours trying to catch up, and I can't belive someone hasn't dropped a bomb on us here in the tradeswaters area to rid your arse of this planet, you have some real hostility and unresolved issues. Glad to know I live close to you though, mabey we could have a spot of tea one day.

My wife actually shoots a crossbow, and has for several yrs, hell I even bought it for her, and am glad she has the determination to hunt with me and use it. We actually both fought in Desert Storm together, and she got shot in the shoulder during a night manuver on her last week before being sent home, She used to shoot a gun only and switched to a crossbow after being eligable , it has turned her life around, even she thinks this will be a bad thing over all, Not because of most hunters , but because of a portion of hunters that will ruin it for a bigger portion of bowhunters , See my wife has a thing called respect , I know you have it, It just hasn't arrived here yet.

She goes out with me and video tapes the hunts while i bowhunt, and I do the same for her when she uses her crossbow, We also have tought our childern to hunt with a compound and they are taking well to it.

As far as you question about contacting my sherrif , I have and I handle things on my farm like my grandfather did when he had problems many yrs ago, with quick and just action.

I hate to come on here right into the fire, with my 3rd or 4th post, but damit I saw a lot of crap going on at that meeting on Friday, and If you werent' there G, you should have been, even the close minded could see the people like gailor that didn't listen to majority plain as day, People like gailor are a disgrace to our state, and I don't care how much money he has donated to the Govenor , Justice was not served.

[Kent Cooper]

Riverwolf,
Please be fair to the people at the KDFWR who work very hard to insure that we have the opportunities to hunt and fish in Kentucky.
Jonathon Day never spoke before the commission on Friday. Dr. Jon Gassett did.
Dr. Gassett is a biologist who's findings are based on science and evidence available to him, not emotion.
Also, you could not be more wrong about Allen Gailor. He is a fair and honest man that works very hard to represent the true sentiments of those that he serves. And by the way, he is a democrat and therefore very unlikley to have donated any funds to our republican governor.

[Riverwolf]

With all due respect Kent, I watch body language , my mother was a speach and child thearapist , and Jon Day was not filling me with good feelings with his close minded attitude , I watched him intently and was dissapointed in his obvious sway of attitude, I'm sure he had his mind made up by expression on his face, Not a good example of a KDFW employee, who we should look up too for an unbiased opinion.

John Gasset did an excellet job, and I was proud of how he handled himself,

I think Tom Bennet did well too, and would have liked to see him even more envolved.

The deep pocket comment on gailor is not fair , I take it back, but I wonder how some of the guys who get appointed make it as far as they do.

[Multidigits]

My apologies to all of my UBK brothers. I'm very sorry that I'm not a great speaker and I promise that I will be working on that. Too little....too late at this time. I'm sorry that I did not hit but 2 of the points that I needed to of the 12 on the paper in front of me. Finding out that my father has prostate cancer the day before the meeting didn't help either. (Send a prayer his way please.) I've worked very hard behind the scenes on this. I've stood behind my values and ethics in everything I've done during this debate and I believe that when the majority of UBK members contacted me as to the direction as to which way to take the fight that is the way it was directed. Values and Ethics are the core of what I believe makes us good stewards of the outdoors. Lets not forget those values when we have these "so called" discussions on this contrivertial subject. I'm now trying to find out who lied to Commish. Gailor. I want to know if it was one of my own members. I have always believed in living my life w/ a clear concience and I will not and have never taken a "win" by cheating. I have earned everything I have just as I earn the deer and game I harvest. Someone stretched the truth and in my eyes tryed to get a W by cheating. Mr. Gailor commented to me after the meeting that in one year this would all be forgotten. No it will not IMO. Or at least not w/ me. He urged me to stay active in the political processes of KDFWR and even run for Commish some day. I felt that was much like him patting me on the but and saying "good game" after my team losy, but I will remain active none the less.
I see social issues that will now become opportunity. My little analogy wasn't as much an analogy as some would like to think. There are many opportunities out there where user groups do not ask others to share their time, their land, or their water. What used to be called "user conflict" has now been relabled a "social issue" Many were not there to back us, because "they had no dog in this fight." They may have had more than they'd like to have admitted.
Anyone that feels I failed in my duties please let me know and I'll step down. If not I'll continue driving forward w/ plans for the NASP wild game cookoff in July and I'm also looking into putting on a Bowfishing tourney or kids event at Lake Shelby in Shelbyville for the parks board has contacted me to help them eliminate the carp populations in their newly dredged lake. Anyone that would like to help w/ any of these would be apreciated!
Mike Whelan, Jr.
Still proud to be
UBK Vice Prez.

IMO- Mike made his point very well, and his was one of the better comments that i heard. I also believe Mike will make a very good Commissioner someday. I'll work hard to see him in that post when it happens.

[Multidigits]

Don't worry be happy. Why can't everyone view things from a Sportsmen view instead of a special interest view. One would think if the same energy was applied across the board( Not just trying to protect your interest) The Commision might actually listen. A new world may start this coming week. It is my hope that the sportsmen of this state will become one united voice in matters. That is the way you will be heard. Anyone ever hear of divide and conquer?

I agree with DW again! And Ive learned how to use the smiley faces.:)

[Multidigits]

Riverwolf,
Please be fair to the people at the KDFWR who work very hard to insure that we have the opportunities to hunt and fish in Kentucky.
Jonathon Day never spoke before the commission on Friday. Dr. Jon Gassett did.
Dr. Gassett is a biologist who's findings are based on science and evidence available to him, not emotion.
Also, you could not be more wrong about Allen Gailor. He is a fair and honest man that works very hard to represent the true sentiments of those that he serves. And by the way, he is a democrat and therefore very unlikley to have donated any funds to our republican governor.


Good post , Kent! Jon and Jon were not the bad guys there, they just delivered the facts and data needed by the Commission to make their decision.

[Multidigits]

as far as i know it was a comment on one of you're previous threads to the effect that the NWTF was for this (crossbow during bow season) i don't know who the fellow was, but evidently a member, possibly a prominent member of NWTF. the first thing i heard was "i have a bone to pick with you !" and something about the statement you had made about (untrue) and he did not want to see that happen again. you then said you were sorry. deny this conversation took place, and you will leave me a lasting impression, and i will become much more active in KDFW meetings. i do work a swing shift job, and i can make some of the commission meetings with no loss of time between me and my family.

No, I don't deny this took place. Several folks were close enough by to hear the whole conversation. The fellow your referring to is Joe Bland the recent past President of the NWTF. He didn't have any bearing on the crossbow issue as he's no longer the Ky-NWTF president. I'm quite sure that at least some of the Ky-NWTF members are/were for crossbow. That group didn't have time to poll their members on their stance, as explianed by Joe Broughton during the meeting. Their request to table untill later was denied (apparently?). Unless my memory is screwed up, the rebuke your talking about was for my comment about the Sat. turkey opener and that Joe Bland had let the members down by not be against it. Joe disagreed with what I posted but didn't want to specify on how it was inaccirate so that it could be fixed. I probably told him I was sorry if I posted something that was untrue? I don't really remember, but will review the tape and see. Thanks for your interest. I'm surprised you would have spoke with me if you were at the meeting?

[grinder]

Wait a minute grinder! You mean you were close enough to hear all you said you did about multi and you didn't introduce yourself. (I'm getting a mental picture of that little german guy on the old LaughIn show.) You wait until back home to blast him online but won't do it face to face? I've had lots of harsh words with multi on here, heck I don't even like his hometown, but this is a bit much. I know this is a very volatile subject and tempers flare. But it is over for the moment. We need to cool the retoric.
i'm kinda picky about the people i hang with, this kind is not my choice.

[WhitetailHunter2000]

I think we should chalk this thread up as a difference of opinion and go back to being hunters.

That's my 2 [sense] worth...

[turk2di]

I think we should chalk this thread up as a difference of opinion and go back to being hunters.

That's my 2 [sense] worth...
Amen. What's done is done. That's democracy! Now lets close ranks and move on!

[grinder]

yes, we need to all be on the same side when the PETA fruitcakes come knockin'. i'm done.

[gwhilikerz]

I agree. I'm done with the xbow issue.

[Xtreme]

Well, I promised myself I would not post on here until today, I just needed a break.

Mike Whalen, first and foremost let me say that Ihope and pray the best for your dad. Second, you are a very mature and stand up individual and I hope you remain in politics even if they do cause you grey hairs and with little thanks.

Folks, I myself want to apologize as I tried to speak a second time but was ignored. I was going to say that Ronnie Wells could not attend due to his father being ill but he [Ronnie] wanted me to state that the UBk and KBA were both LOKS affiliates and he would appreciate them being heard in a serious and professional manner. As far as I know thwere was never any board of directors action by the LOKS to take a stand one way or the other as a whole.

There was some confusion with Gailors speech and to be honest I was confused as to what was about to happen as well. Who ever called Gailor and told him the 3rd district voted unanimously to oppose xbows lied or was mistaken and this was proved at the meeting by Mike as well as Kent.

Tom Conely was also there and stated this as such as well. Tom did state that he was not speaking on behalf of anyone but himself.

I was in a blue funk from the first time I read on the deer season dates for 2005 that [crossbow/archery] was already printed on the regulations. After that I was rattled and confused and I admit it and apologize for not having spoken more as well as better.

For those that think Tom C. pulled a slick one I will tell you he told me I better watch how I worded my opposition and questions about the survey the dept. was so serious about. He cautioned me to state that it is worded the same as the xbow question and in doing so saved me from appearing ignorant on that.

This was not the finest hour of a few folks who spoke including myself. However I rode up with Tom C., sat beside him at the meeting, pleaded my case as best I could as did he. We ate supper that night and attended the LOKS meeting together and rode back home.

We started out as friends who were on opposite sides and we are still friends on opposite sides. This is serious business but not serious enough to lose a friend. I hope mature and sensible minds prevail here and that life goes on. I especially hope and pray life goes on a good while longer for Mike Whalens father.

[Valley Station]

What a shock.Thought I would never see the day,Crossbows legal during bow season in Kentucky.
Kind of reminds of the scene at the end of the movie of the original Planet of the Apes. Charleston Heaston is saying "Damn you!Damn you all to hell!" as a comment to his fellow man for blowing up the world, when he saw The Statue of Liberty fallen.

[buckfever]

This post is totally inaccurate. Had I not seen Ballard stumble through his presentation, you wouldn't even know that he was in attendance at the meeting.

When he mentions the LEAGUE, he actually means the 3rd District Federation, was is merely an arm of the Leaugue. A Federation does not represent the League on any vote. e.i.- If a Federation held a vote and it showed that they supported a certain issue, then that still would not mean that the League supported that same issue.

Mr. Gailor had been lied to by a caller about the results of the 3rd District Federation, and he was going to support the Federation on what he was told was a unanimous vote held at that Federation meeting. The facts are there was no vote at that Federation meeting to even know what level of support was there or not there on the crossbow issue.

Tom Conely did not speak for the LKS (League), and only spoke to combat the obvious lie told to Mr. Gailor. Had this lie not been told, I had no intetion of speaking even though there were several others there that also put out some untrue statments.

The LKS is astate wide organization, representing all sporting groups and individuals. The LKS held no vote on this issue. Rick Hahn had premission to speak for the President of the LKS who couldn't attend because of a family illness. Rick was sitting next to me, and we shared notes during the hearing. Had Rick got the chance to speak on behalf of the LKS, he would have said that the LKS had no official stance because of what I stated before, but being that the UBK and the KBA are afiliated statewide clubs, that we do support those groups--or something to that effect. Rick can clarify when he gets time to post something.

After the meeting, one of the LKS Board members also got a call that was a lie about me personally. And what I said during the meeting.

I have a tape of the meeting and can varify what I said and what was said during the whole meeting by all the speakers.

Some of the UBK speakers did a fairly poor job-IMO. Mike Whalen and Rick Hahn presented their talk the best and made positive points. Both are quality guys and should be appreciated by all sportsmen for their service.

I don't believe that Gailor was the swing vote but what do I know? He had calls for both sides and appeared to waiver on how to vote. The misleading call certainly didn't help the UBK out one bit, nor did the abuse that other Commission members recieved from some callers. Others screwed up by mentioning that they were calling from outside of their district.

Anyone that was there had several print out available to those there so that you could follow the meeting. All of those that had the word 'archery' printed on them also had the '/crossbow' behind it. I think somebody anticipated this passing at least in time to print up the papers.

Have a good day, the world won't come to an end over this issue. Thanks to all that participated in the process, pro or con.

Tom - You helped to pass this regulation and obviously did a good job in convincing 5 of the commissioners that xbows were a good thing. There are certainly some valid points from the xbow side. There are valid points against. I agree that life will go on, with or without xbows, and their use will probably never directly affect the way I hunt or my land. In fact, I may even eventually buy one in the future.

However, I would like to end the personal potshots between us. I've never met you or spoken to you, and the first time I ever laid eyes on you was this past Friday at the Commission meeting. I may have "stumbled" through my presentation as you put it, but afterwards, Commish Baker actually complimented me on doing a "fine job" and said my comments were "helpful" to him. In other posts, you called me a "liar", a "crybaby" and a "whiner" (just one "n" by the way since you asked). I don't believe that any of those descriptions are fair or accurate. I believe we can disagree on a subject without resorting to personal attacks.

When I tried to explain what occurred during the commission meeting, I was simply trying to reiterate the events. It is true that Commish Gailor spoke about the "Federation". I think he later made reference to the "League", and I was under the impression they were connected entities. Gailor said on several occasions that he would vote in line with his constituents and that he received an enormous number of calls in opposition to this measure. I was not trying to cast aspersions at you by stating that you corrected him about a "League" vote (when it appears that it was actually the "Federation"). You stated at the meeting that you were not speaking on behalf of anyone other than yourself, but that there had not been a vote. I was simply trying to point out that it appeared that Commish Gailor was going to vote against this until he learned that he received an inaccurate or untrue report (possibly an intentional bald faced lie). I called him the "swing" vote, because it appeared to me based on his statements during the proceeding that he was genuinely on the fence. With the exception of Commish Baker and the 1st Dist Commish, I thought that all of the other Commishes appeared as though they made their minds already made up. Thanks, Ballard

[cpe]

This has got to be the faster growing thread ever.

I for one am glad it passed even though I don't use one. I was born and raised in Arkanas and crossbows have been legal archery equipment there for years. That allowed me, my brothers and several friends to start bowhunting when we were 12 , years before we could really use compounds. It's a great hunting tool youth, elderly and those that don't have as much time to practice/tweak compounds (crossbows can be sighted in quickly).

It will bring a few more people into hunting, which is always good. As far as adding hunting pressure to bow season, if that's your reason against the use of crossbows, then you're simply a selfish individual.

As far as negatively affecting the deer herd - that will never happen. Besides, a majority of the state right now has too many deer whether we want to admit it or not.

[Multidigits]

Tom - You helped to pass this regulation and obviously did a good job in convincing 5 of the commissioners that xbows were a good thing. There are certainly some valid points from the xbow side. There are valid points against. I agree that life will go on, with or without xbows, and their use will probably never directly affect the way I hunt or my land. In fact, I may even eventually buy one in the future.

However, I would like to end the personal potshots between us. I've never met you or spoken to you, and the first time I ever laid eyes on you was this past Friday at the Commission meeting. I may have "stumbled" through my presentation as you put it, but afterwards, Commish Baker actually complemented me on doing a "fine job" and said my comments were "helpful" to him. In other posts, you called me a "liar", a "crybaby" and a "whiner" (just one "n" by the way since you asked). I don't believe that any of those descriptions are fair or accurate. I believe we can disagree on a subject without resorting to personal attacks.

When I tried to explain what occurred during the commission meeting, I was simply trying to reiterate the events. It is true that Commish Gailor spoke about the "Federation". I think he later made reference to the "League", and I was under the impression they were connected entities. Gailor said on several occasions that he would vote in line with his constituents and that he received an enormous number of calls in opposition to this measure. I was not trying to cast aspersions at you by stating that you corrected him about a "League" vote (when it appears that it was actually the "Federation"). You stated at the meeting that you were not speaking on behalf of anyone other than yourself, but that there had not been a vote. I was simply trying to point out that it appeared that Commish Gailor was going to vote against this until he learned that he received an inaccurate or untrue report (possibly an intentional bald faced lie). I called him the "swing" vote, because it appeared to me based on his statements during the proceeding that he was genuinely on the fence. With the exception of Commish Baker and the 1st Dist Commish, I thought that all of the other Commishes appeared as though they made their minds already made up. Thanks, Ballard

Ballard, after the first 10 minutes of the Strader show last night, and the comment about the known wildlife violater, I'm sure that the personal stuff will continue with you and Walt. As for disagreeing without resulting in personal attacks, you haven't been able to prove that yet. After all, the PM that you posted on the net, and that you sent to Walt and others seem to indicate that your not trustworthy, not even a tiny bit.

The lies on your part are on record on this site. You stated in a couple of posts or more that you didn't care about the issue one way or the other. That is an obvious lie. I can agree that you may not have knowingly lied about the LKS and the Federation position, but there were those on that show last night that did. The 3rd Fed. president surely knew the difference between a Federation and the League itself. Other than the part of Mike Whelen, you should be ashamed to have been on that show. It was nothing but blastemy toward the Dept. and those that work there doing what they do. So, another lie on your part is your past support of the very Dept. that you blasted last night. I've never seen that much misinformation in a two hour period as what you put our there last night.

My rating of your performance was based on the fact that none of your points were valid, according to the data and our own biologists. The same biologists that you could have checked with beforehand. Even after being rubuke on Friday, you repeated those same points last night. You apparently believe that your more in the know on deer matters than are Gassett and Day. You'll have a hard time convincing many folks on that account.

Yes, Gailor was lied to, and it wasn't by a crossbow supportor. I'm also working on a few things and expect to find some interesting facts. You think any other UBK members have ever recieved a citation while hunting? You think the comment last night about x-bow hunters hunting over corn and shooting turkeys doesn't happen now by some UBK meebers. Remember, the UBK boast a membership of 400 paid, but claim somewhere between 70,000 and 90,000 bowhunters as their group. More misinformation to say the least.

And I'm sure that most of us have some skeletons in our closets. Lord knows I've done a lot more than hunt without premission last Dec. All I have to do is find yours and Walts and advertise it on the net and radio and we'll be even. For starters, it seems Walt doesn't get along with women very good. Maybe we know why?

Last, thanks for the help on the spelling, looks like I'll need to know that in a
big way from now on. Once we're on level grounf agian, then we can end the personal stuff. As it is now, I owe you at least a couple.

[schuyler olt]

Let me start by saying I wasn't at the meeting, so I'll not comment on what was or wasn't said.

Whether this passed or didn't is of no moment to me. What concerns me is that this vote was addressing a fundamental change in the way we have managed game resources and hunting opportunities for more than half a century. The comments on here--whether they are pro or con, rude or polite, whatever--underscore and absolutely prove that this was a huge issue in the minds of many.

Big issues should be decided with an abundance of caution and an abundance of deliberation. I will give every District Commissioner the absolute nth degree of respect and I believe that THEY genuinely felt well equipped enough to make a sound and rational decision.

Still, I feel uncomfortable with the process. Joe Broughton served as my vice-president of the NWTF state chapter for the last two years of my presidency. I am tickled pink that he is now president, because he is an absolute stand up guy with tremendous talents, and we will all benefit by his involvement as a new conservation leader. I'm told he asked that the matter be tabled so that he could determine the sense of the state chapter, which includes roughly 25,000 Kentuckians involved in 87 local chapters who, in addition to affording over roughly 400 local scholarships the past six years and well in excess of $20,000 to KASP and, through the national NWTF, $100,000 to the NASP, have probably donated over $100,000 within the past six years to support KDFWR initiatives. And that doesn't take into account the dozens of times one of us has publicly testified to legislators in support of various KDFWR initiatives, or assisted in such fundamental public projects as Governor Patton's Smart Growth Task Force.

In short, I worry that not enough consideration was given to the attempt of an organization that is directly concerned with turkeys to at least explore further what impact this would have on turkey hunting in this state, good, bad or indifferent. I think back to how the October season played out a few years ago when I was Pres of the state chapter. I took a ton of heat on that issue, but I had the opportunity to work with Walt and Jerry Napier of UBK, and we were able to reach a common basis of thinking that didn't put two organizations at loggerheads, but instead created a greater sense of common ground and cooperation than we had enjoyed before. In short, the PROCESS turned out to be a win-win for the sportsmen in the long run.

I guess my long-winded point is this--I hope and pray that we CONSTRUCTVELY look at how the way this was done, both good and bad, and use it to improve the way all of us interact in making changes which are fundamental in nature. In the future, we should do everything we can to avoid a situation where significant numbers of constituents feel that they were not given a fair opportunity to study an issue and have their point of view adequately and fairly considered.

Let's turn the page, and come back to working together. Those of you who supported allowing xbows, if the evidence shows a significantly negative impact on our turkey flock, will you join me in working for the changes neccessary to protect the resource?

[Bowzone]

All is not lost. First of all I thank the Jim Strader for such a great show last night. I feel that all my opionions were addressed in last nights show. For those of you how did not catch the show last night it was all about the xbow vote and how it may and will effect for both deer and tuyrkey hunters in this state. Well, Jim more than I must have heard the show and the plea to call your congressman and governer on this subject. Commisioner Bennet announced this morning that he is resigning from KYF&W. Hopefully this is the first step in correcting this mistake that was made on Friday. I must say to all that will respond negatively to this e-mail. I do not appose x-bows, I just believe that more time was needed to research the subject and I appose passing a law that the majority of the public (Kentucky residence) apposed.

[Beaver_]

I do not appose x-bows, I just believe that more time was needed to research the subject and I appose passing a law that the majority of the public (Kentucky residence) apposed.

My thoughts exactly. Well said!!!

[creekdawgg]

Commisioner Bennet announced this morning that he is resigning from KYF&W. Guess that was a joke?

[Walt K]

You’re a class act Tom Conely. You sent me a personal email three weeks ago to stop personal attacks. I did. Guess what I didn’t understand was the part that you’d continue to hammer on me. I’ve not said one word publicly about this violation thing you keep bringing up, better get your facts straight on that. In fact, I’ve not mentioned your name on anything for quite a few posts, yet your bashing of me continues. There are a lot of intelligent folks on this site who’d like to exchange constructive information, pro and con on various issues that effect us as sportsmen, but as one poster said, it’s the Jerry Springer of sportsmen websites. That’s why the department won’t post on here anymore. Well, I’m done being a target for Mulitdigit’s wrath. I’m 50 years old and I don’t need to play high school kiddy stuff on the internet. I think people will figure you out on their own accord. I’ll put my time in constructive organizations like UBK, NWTF, and the League. In fact, I plan on getting more involved in the League. As far as being on this site, I won’t be back on Tom’s Internet cesspool. I’m joining the ranks of Roy Grimes and the others who pulled out long ago, maybe I’m finally getting a bit wiser in my old age. To those who opposed my views on the crossbow, so be it. You’re as entitled to your opinion as I am mine, and most of you did a good job of stating your view in a civil manner, and I respect that. I was passionate on my stance, and see nothing wrong with that. I offer no apology to try to head off a regulation that will be the biggest change in bowhunting regulation in Kentucky’s history ever. I’d be glad to talk with any of you face to face, anytime. Hurry Tom, you're only 20 shy of 7000 posts, and to think you said I needed to get a life...ha,ha..now that's funny! Hasta la vista mi amigos!

[FourSeasonsBowhunter]

Hey guys...let it go. I wasn't for it either, but let it go. All this talk about getting even is wrong. Just let it go. Turn the other cheek. Good gosh. It's so sad what this has turned into.

[WBBP]

Commissioner Bennett resigning is true from what I have heard. I guess they will start the process to fill his position immediately.

[Multidigits]

-------------------------------------------------
You’re a class act Tom Conely. You sent me a personal email three weeks ago to stop personal attacks. I did. That's a lie walt. your first post before you went to texas was a persinal attack on me. The first you you made when you got back, was a personal attack on me again. Two PMs after that addresse the goose hunting incident that I was cited for. you printed the response to those out and had them with at the meeting at Mike's house.


Guess what I didn’t understand was the part that you’d continue to hammer on me. I responded to your attacks, when attacked, I attack back.

I’ve not said one word publicly about this violation thing you keep bringing up, better get your facts straight on that. Another lie--I know you had the printed PM from this cite that you and sent each other. Two or more people together is 'in public'. Your a liar if you say you didn't have them at Mike's house on the Sat. meeting.

In fact, I’ve not mentioned your name on anything for quite a few posts, yet your bashing of me continues. Sure, you were part of what happened last nightn and one of the sources for the misinformation that took place last night.

There are a lot of intelligent folks on this site who’d like to exchange constructive information, pro and con on various issues that effect us as sportsmen, but as one poster said, it’s the Jerry Springer of sportsmen websites. That’s why the department won’t post on here anymore. We have KYDFWR people post here all the time, and one of them is in Cyberhunter's. So your wrong about that. I doubt they would want to hear crap like they heard on the strader show last night either. You were part of that show. It'll be remembered hopefully

Well, I’m done being a target for Mulitdigit’s wrath. Nope, I'm just getting warmed up. You started it, we can finish it together.


I’m 50 years old and I don’t need to play high school kiddy stuff on the internet. I think people will figure you out on their own accord. I’ll put my time in constructive organizations like UBK, NWTF, and the League. In fact, I plan on getting more involved in the League. Yeah, you should after spreading that crap last night and the misinformation you passed around about the 3rd district meeting.

As far as being on this site, I won’t be back on Tom’s Internet cesspool. I’m joining the ranks of Roy Grimes and the others who pulled out long ago, maybe I’m finally getting a bit wiser in my old age. Good ridence

To those who opposed my views on the crossbow, so be it. You’re as entitled to your opinion as I am mine, and most of you did a good job of stating your view in a civil manner, and I respect that. I was passionate on my stance, and see nothing wrong with that. I offer no apology to try to head off a regulation that will be the biggest change in bowhunting regulation in Kentucky’s history ever. I’d be glad to talk with any of you face to face, anytime. Hurry Tom, you're only 20 shy of 7000 posts, and to think you said I needed to get a life...ha,ha..now that's funny! Hasta la vista mi amigos! See you walt....got any skeletons in your closets? ;)

[plowboy]

Good grief guys, get a grip or life or something. We are all SUPPOSED to be sportsmen, where is the sportsmanship in all this name calling. I admit it, I get a kick out pestering Multi but have absolutely nothing against him or the job he's doing. I am still bothered that my post was kicked out though, was just getting wound up. Keep it up Multi, I'll jab at you again sometime. Glad you learned about the faces too.

[Multidigits]

Good grief guys, get a grip or life or something. We are all SUPPOSED to be sportsmen, where is the sportsmanship in all this name calling. I admit it, I get a kick out pestering Multi but have absolutely nothing against him or the job he's doing. I am still bothered that my post was kicked out though, was just getting wound up. Keep it up Multi, I'll jab at you again sometime. Glad you learned about the faces too.

I love them smiley faces

[DCCD]

With talk of a big push from the antis to try and ban archery why would anybody pick this particular time to drive such a wedge amongst the ranks?unless you just hate hunting period.

[gwhilikerz]

With talk of a big push from the antis to try and ban archery why would anybody pick this particular time to drive such a wedge amongst the ranks?unless you just hate hunting period.
Are you saying that those of us who supported the xbow issue are really Peta in disguise? See how paranoid this xbow thing is making everyone? I don't know if it's you or me.:)
I have not seen you doing any bashing and this part of my post it not aimed at you. I find it strange that some on here will kick a guy in the groin, then when he comes back at them they cry "I didn't do it". I have probably been more vocal about this subject than I should have been. I apologize that I let some of it get personal.

[DCCD]

What I am saying is if you are for or against this was bad timing because everyone knows this has always been one of the hottest issues in a lot of states. Do I think there is a lot of hidden agendas on both sides yes.I bow hunt and bow hunt only. Was I in favor for Xbows no. Is it going to effect me I doubt it I own 244 acres that I manage and hunt on. I just think this did nothing for the unity of the hunting community as a whole I think this is going to leave scars for some time to come.

[Xtreme]

Gentlemen, please let this end. Any further arguments please do it via PM's.

Thanks.....for what my 2 cents is worth:)

[grinder]

i've decided there is nothing beneficial about this site. the boycott begins, please someone put an arrow,or bolt through my lungs and let me die here a fawn. goodbye all !!