Crossbows for Turkeys?

[Ispinfish]

This Friday the KYDFWR will decide on legislation to allow Crossbows during the Bow Season as Archery equipment. This decision will impact not only Deer Hunters, but Turkey Hunters. This will increase the opportunity for hunters to take turkeys during the fall season when opportunities arise. At this time the Turkey Population is on the rise and in good health. The extra opportunity that this provides to take a turkey during the Bow season may NOT be what Turkey Hunters want. IF you oppose this new regulation OR if you agree with it.. please contact the proper commissioner and let him know. I also believe that this will increase the number of Bucks taken during the deer season. Currently Bow hunters take a 60 to 40% buck ratio and the department itself admits that that ratio is what is currently keeping the take at the needed 50 / 50 rate since gun hunters are at around a 48 to 52 percent ratio or a bit higher.. IF crossbows are allowed, more hunters will be in the woods with the feeling that they can take that buck with a crossbow. As an experienced Crossbow Hunter with a disability permit, I can assure you any shot past 20 yards is risky at best. Noise from the crossbow will allow the deer to move, and that movement causes wounded deer. Here is a list of all commissioners in the state of Kentucky. Please encourage your members to voice their opinion.

1st DistrictCharles W. Martin1125 Court Street
Wickliffe, KY 42087270-335-5967Counties: Ballard, Caldwell, Calloway, Carlisle, Christian, Crittenden, Fulton, Graves, Hickman, Livingston, Lyon, McCracken, Marshall, Trigg2nd DistrictTom Baker
Coldwell Banker Commercial
Real Estates Services, Inc.
996 Wilkinson Trace, Suite C-6
Bowling Green, KY 42103270-781-3844
Counties: Allen, Butler, Daviess, Hancock, Henderson, Hopkins, Logan, McLean, Muhlenberg, Ohio, Simpson, Todd, Union, Warren, Webster3rd DistrictAllen K. Gailor
730 W. Market
Louisville, KY 40202502-584-7217
Counties: Breckinridge, Bullitt, Jefferson, Meade, Oldham, Shelby, Spencer4th DistrictRon Southall
8 Maple Lane
Elizabethtown, KY 42701270-737-1890Counties: Adair, Barren, Cumberland, Edmonson, Grayson, Green, Hardin, Hart, Larue, Marion, Metcalfe, Monroe, Nelson, Taylor, Washington5th DistrictDr. James Rich
5975 Taylor Mill Road
Covington, KY 41015859-356-9274
Counties: Boone, Bracken, Campbell, Carroll, Gallatin, Grant, Harrison, Henry, Kenton, Owen, Pendleton, Robertson, Trimble6th DistrictR. G. Toler5228 Trapp Goff Corner
Winchester, KY 40391859-842-4104
Counties: Anderson, Boyle, Casey, Clark, Estill, Fayette, Franklin, Garrard, Jessamine, Lee, Lincoln, Madison, Mercer, Powell, Rockcastle, Scott, Woodford7th DistrictDoug Hensley
PO Box 480
Hazard, KY 41701606-436-2321
Counties: Breathitt, Floyd, Harlan, Johnson, Knott, Lawrence, Leslie, Letcher, Magoffin, Martin, Owsley, Perry, Pike8th DistrictDr. Robert C. Webb
45 Webb Circle
Grayson, KY 41143606-474-5149
Counties: Bath, Bourbon, Boyd, Carter, Elliott, Fleming, Greenup, Lewis, Mason, Menifee, Montgomery, Morgan, Nicholas, Rowan, Wolfe9th DistrictDavid Godby
16 Summer Breeze
Somerset, KY 42503606-677-0115 Office
Counties: Bell, Clay, Clinton, Jackson, Knox, Laurel,McCreary, Pulaski, Russell, Wayne, Whitley
Jim Dicken
I TurkeyHunt.com Owner
Editor Fishin.com
Fishing Guides Home Page
931 Keswick Blvd.
Louisville, Ky. 40217
502-636-1305

[joekat46]

Now your agenda is clear "Ispinfish". I usually have an agenda also so go for it. I do hope you lose on the xbow issue but share some concern for the turkeys if they leave the fall limit at 4 total. Too many for a fall season xbow or not. I want to say "oink, oink" to anyone that harvested that many if they were all taken on public land. Love your "wounded deer" fantasy from the other thread. I now don't believe a word of it.

[Duster]

As with ANY new weapon there has to be a learning curve. When the first time crossbow shooters take aim at a target and find it don't shoot like a rifle as expected by some they then will understand the limits of this weapon and hopefully limit thier shots to ranges within thier personal ability.

[Multidigits]

1. Jim Dickens needs to buy a better quality x-bow. His is apparently junk.

2. Jim needs tracking lessons. Ask Strader, he's an expert on nearly everthing.

3. The KY-NWTF is on record supporting the crossbow issue 100%

[Ispinfish]

When there is no blood to track.. it is hard to track. Bolts going further than 20 yards lose much more kinetic energy and ONE MORE TIME..The noise is the problem beyond the 20 yard mark. Not one single Crossbow EXPERT has been able to help me make my Horton Crossbow any quieter. At that point... the noise is faster than the bow and allows the deer to react. This reaction CHANGES the shot.
The bow has a 150 pound draw. I can shoot squirrels with it at 25 yards regularly. It is extremely accurate and does kill when used PROPERLY. The problem is not only the learning curve, but the increase in the take of Bucks in the State as well as the increase in Turkey Harvest.
Do I have an agenda. Yes, I dont like this idea of crossbows during the ENTIRE bow season. As a hunter licensed in the State of Kentucky, I am ENTITLED to have an opinion on how this will change the deer hunt AND the Turkey Hunt. I feel it will change the structure of the take of deer when you consider the current percentages. THIS YEAR is the first year that we have gotten the percentages where we want them. WHY change this now. It aint Broke so WHY fix it. This same proposition was turned down by Fish and Wildlife several years ago. NO ONE has asked for this change, no organization has requested it.. so why make the change.
As for the NWTF, I am not familiar with the observation that they are for this. The Fellow members I have talked to do not agree with this new regulation.

[Multidigits]

........NO ONE has asked for this change, no organization has requested it.. so why make the change.
As for the NWTF, I am not familiar with the observation that they are for this. The Fellow members I have talked to do not agree with this new regulation.

Your wrong, it was requested to be put on the agenda by a hunter who wants to use crossbow, he has the same right as you. The President of the KY-NWTF is pushing the crossbow issue hard. I guess that means he's for it.

Sounds like you need to get rid of the hortona nd get a good high end x-bow or learn to hunt better. Others don't seem to have those same problems as you describe.

[Ispinfish]

1. Jim Dickens needs to buy a better quality x-bow. His is apparently junk. :mad:

I own a Horton.. 150 pound draw... Cost $300.00 I dont think it is junk and neither has anyone I have taken it to for work. Each expert has told me that there is NO way to make a Crossbow quieter, even the more expensive models. I even talked to the PSE people at the Expo, they tell me that there is NO current Crossbow that does not make as much noise as my $300.00 model. Spending MORE will NOT solve the problem and upgrading which I have looked into after my dismal results this year.. would not improve accuracy beyond 20 yards. No "Expert" believes that this will change any time soon.:p

2. Jim needs tracking lessons. Ask Strader, he's an expert on nearly everthing.:mad:

You cant track what does not bleed. Crossbow Bolts lose too much energy due to a lack of weight. They are MUCH smaller, and while you can add weight using the points, nothing will change the length of the bolt. The smaller trajectile going through a deer does not allow enough blood to flow if the shot is not perfect..:)

3. The KY-NWTF is on record supporting the crossbow issue 100%:mad:
I can not find any evidence that this is the case. Can you tell me where you found this information.:)
JimD072@aol.com

[skin_dog1]

Multi, I've met you several times in person and spoke with you on the phone and even belong to one of your clubs, but I have yet to figure out why you are such a jerk on this computer! This guy seems to have brought up arguments that are just as good as your arguments yet you've been a complete ass to him because his opinion and beliefs differ from yours. I'm glad to see a xbow user step up to the plate! I don't think I'll ever understand you. As far as him needing better equipment, maybe he does but do you think the hoard of gun hunters jumping on the bandwagon are gonna go out and buy the best on the market? They'll buy the cheapest one on the walmart shelves and go at it! Look at how many leisure hunters go buy a gun now, have it boresighted and then go hunt with it. The new additions to "Archery" will not want to go the full mile, if so they would already be Archers!

[Multidigits]

Multi, I've met you several times in person and spoke with you on the phone and even belong to one of your clubs, but I have yet to figure out why you are such a jerk on this computer! This guy seems to have brought up arguments that are just as good as your arguments yet you've been a complete ass to him because his opinion and beliefs differ from yours. I'm glad to see a xbow user step up to the plate! I don't think I'll ever understand you. As far as him needing better equipment, maybe he does but do you think the hoard of gun hunters jumping on the bandwagon are gonna go out and buy the best on the market? They'll buy the cheapest one on the walmart shelves and go at it! Look at how many leisure hunters go buy a gun now, have it boresighted and then go hunt with it. The new additions to "Archery" will not want to go the full mile, if so they would already be Archers!

That's OK, skin, I can live with your wrath.

As for Jimmy, he's just being Jimmy. Relaying what ever message Jim Strader wants put out. You can believe it if you want. His opinion of modern x-bows is crap. Others on here have had much different experiences then what he posted. Having sold a few x-bow set ups in the past couple of years, I can tell you that you are wrong. The average set-up will be over $500 and very similar to what the high end compounds will run. You have a poor opinion of other sportsmen for some reason???

[skin_dog1]

My last sentence sums up the way I feel about the entire thing. There is not much of a reason for someone to take up xbows if they aren't already shooting a vertical bow except they feel they are getting an advantage or that its alot easier. Why would a guy that's never bowhunted all of a sudden decide to hunt with a crossbow because they are legal the entire season? Regular bows are already legal, why doesn't he or she already shoot one? The only thing I could think of would be a physical reason and there are already ways around that.

[Multidigits]

My last sentence sums up the way I feel about the entire thing. There is not much of a reason for someone to take up xbows if they aren't already shooting a vertical bow except they feel they are getting an advantage or that its alot easier. Why would a guy that's never bowhunted all of a sudden decide to hunt with a crossbow because they are legal the entire season? Regular bows are already legal, why doesn't he or she already shoot one? The only thing I could think of would be a physical reason and there are already ways around that.

That's your opinion, others want a choice. If they get it, it won't effect you in anyway. Your skipping the fact that not every sportsman is a slob hunter and that some just want more time in the woods. That totally ignores the management side of it that you've posted ona bunch of occasions that you support the job the KYDFWR is doing. They say they need more deer killed, and that this will help get it done. As for your last sentence, you need to have more faith in your fellow sportsman out there that has a little different outlook on things than you do.

[skin_dog1]

Your skipping the fact that not every sportsman is a slob hunter and that some just want more time in the woods. That totally ignores the management side of it that you've posted ona bunch of occasions that you support the job the KYDFWR is doing. They say they need more deer killed, and that this will help get it done. As for your last sentence, you need to have more faith in your fellow sportsman out there that has a little different outlook on things than you do.
I never said all sportsmen are slob hunters, as far as more oppurtunity, how is this creating more oppurtunity? The oppurtunity is already there! They are not making a new season, they are adding a weapon type. The season is already there for anyone to use including people physically unable to use a bow that you must draw and hold. Yes I've said many times that I support KDFWR, but you have said on many occasions that you don't and that they skew numbers, act without listening to the people and several other negative things. Have they all of a sudden turned over a new leaf in your eyes? My support of them ghas always been in the fact that they have done a good job thus far managing the deer herds in KY. That fact can't be argued for the most part. I know, eastern KY has a small deer herd, but I'll bet they have more deer now than 25 years ago, also the habitat is marginal at best. My last sentence speaks the truth, all hunters are not perfect like we would hope. There are many that don't care about the game they kill, don't care about the rules, and don't care about the challenges involved in Hunting. If people want to partake in a 5 month season then go buy the latest and greatest compound decked to the hilt with all the legal gadgetry available. It won't be that much more difficult than Xbows. If they want easier then stick with a firearm. Don't complain about something not being there when it is!

[turk2di]

What about the rule that prohibits an archer from having a device on his bow to hold it at full draw for him? Will that not have 2b changed? Won't this open up a pandoras box of hunters wanting to use other weapons? Hopefully the cost will be prohibitive, but i suspect that like skin_dog says, cheaper xbow's will show up. But i lamented about dogs being used during fall turkey and it turned out 2b no problem(yet!).

[grouseguy]

First off let me state that I deer hunt less and less every year and I don't bow hunt (vertical or cross) at all, so this issue is completely irrelevant to me personally. However, I would like to inject a little eastern KY perspective into the discussion.

If there is any game species that we have in ABUNDANCE in eastern KY its turkey. We have MANY MANY more turkey than deer, so I doubt ANY type of bow hunting will have any meaningful impact on the resource. If anything, I support further liberalization of spring turkey season lengths and bag limits.

Someone made the observation that we have more deer in eastern KY now than 25 years ago...very true, but we have considerably LESS deer than we had 10 years ago. I can still kill the 3 deer it takes to fill my freezer each year and keep us in burger with just weekend gun hunts, but I am not a trophy hunter nor particularly selective in my deer harvest. The fact remains there are much fewer deer (probably fewer than half) now in eastern KY than 5-10 years ago.

Just a few eastern KY facts/perspectives...you may now return to this ridiculous crossbow argument, which IMHO, is much hand-wringing about nothing.

[Multidigits]

First off let me state that I deer hunt less and less every year and I don't bow hunt (vertical or cross) at all, so this issue is completely irrelevant to me personally. However, I would like to inject a little eastern KY perspective into the discussion.

If there is any game species that we have in ABUNDANCE in eastern KY its turkey. We have MANY MANY more turkey than deer, so I doubt ANY type of bow hunting will have any meaningful impact on the resource. If anything, I support further liberalization of spring turkey season lengths and bag limits.

Someone made the observation that we have more deer in eastern KY now than 25 years ago...very true, but we have considerably LESS deer than we had 10 years ago. I can still kill the 3 deer it takes to fill my freezer each year and keep us in burger with just weekend gun hunts, but I am not a trophy hunter nor particularly selective in my deer harvest. The fact remains there are much fewer deer (probably fewer than half) now in eastern KY than 5-10 years ago.

Just a few eastern KY facts/perspectives...you may now return to this ridiculous crossbow argument, which IMHO, is much hand-wringing about nothing.

grouseguy is correct. I hunted with him and Birdman on PUBLIC land up there and saw tons of turkey sign. Public WMA over run with turkeys--now that's one that you won't believe but it's true.

[Valley Station]

Turkey huntin' in some of those hills, "will seperate the sheep from the goats".
Lots of turkey, but, tough going for your average "flat lander". Might take
hour to get to that gobblin' bird "across the holler". Some of you "ol' guys" plan on huntin' the mountains, better lose weight/get in shape before you do.

[ryan hickey]

just had to chime in on this. bowhunting for turkeys is hard for several reasons. in my opinion, its the drawing of the bow that is hardest to sneak past a turkey. so when you take that out of the equation, killing them w/a crossbow is hardly 'bowhunting'. PLUS, i know that alot of guys bowhunt deer over bait, u think they're all gonna 'do the right thing' when a flock 15-20 tukeys come by? i know that sounds like i'm labeling folks slobs, but i think this issue does open up a sort of 'pandora's box' like the guy posted earlier:confused:

[skin_dog1]

I tell a story about a giant tom that came to my bait pile 3 seasons ago. He was the best bird I've ever seen. He was less than 15 yards away and I had several occasions to draw on him becasue there was a giant oak between him and I and as he would walk behind it it would've been easy to draw and shoot. I didn't though. I didn't have a fall tag and I wasn't gonna shoot him over a bait pile. With that said, I've told the story to many people and probably 80 percent if not more said they would've shot him! These are hunters that are mostly legit, some of them post on here, some of them are close friends and hunting buddies. They may have been trying to sound tuff, they may have been blowing smoke. I just feel that many people that are otherwise lawabiding would slip on occasion and do this, regardless of weapon. Add to the scenario a 4 1/2 month season with a weapon you don't have to draw and the numbers of turkeys killed will go up substantially.

[Multidigits]

Turkey huntin' in some of those hills, "will seperate the sheep from the goats".
Lots of turkey, but, tough going for your average "flat lander". Might take
hour to get to that gobblin' bird "across the holler". Some of you "ol' guys" plan on huntin' the mountains, better lose weight/get in shape before you do.
That's why when they stand in a group and your picking out who to go with, you always pick the fattest one. Normally, he hunts the sides instead of running up and over. We had a good hunt and took it easy. Them hills were baby poop compared to some of them at Ft. Knox. But there's plenty of turkeys there, and I'd say you could never over hunt them hills. If I didn't have good hunting nearby, I'd be there getting after them.

[Multidigits]

just had to chime in on this. bowhunting for turkeys is hard for several reasons. in my opinion, its the drawing of the bow that is hardest to sneak past a turkey. so when you take that out of the equation, killing them w/a crossbow is hardly 'bowhunting'. PLUS, i know that alot of guys bowhunt deer over bait, u think they're all gonna 'do the right thing' when a flock 15-20 tukeys come by? i know that sounds like i'm labeling folks slobs, but i think this issue does open up a sort of 'pandora's box' like the guy posted earlier:confused:

Nowdays, blinds make the problem of getting drawn a non-issues. Turkey will walk up and look in the window if you let them. With either weapon, it won't make a difference.

[buckfever]

Nowdays, blinds make the problem of getting drawn a non-issues. Turkey will walk up and look in the window if you let them. With either weapon, it won't make a difference.

If fall hunters were actually hunting out of ground blinds that might be true, but I'd bet that 95% of the fall archery turkeys are taken by opportunistic deer hunters who are lucky enough to hide their draw from 20 feet up a tree. Also, for those who actually attempt to hunt turkeys on the ground, ground blinds are an almost (I did say "almost" gwhilli so don't jump on me) absolute necessity. Although I'm not familiar enough w/ xbows to know for sure, it seems that, like shotgun hunting, a xbow hunter can get by without a ground blind.

[ryan hickey]

i got busted by a turkey sitting in a ground blind and i was shotgun hunting in the spring. i mean yeah, to some extent sitting in a blind would make it easier, but its not fool-proof either.

i think there is plenty of room for a longer x-bow season in KY, just not one that lasts 5mos.

[Multidigits]

If fall hunters were actually hunting out of ground blinds that might be true, but I'd bet that 95% of the fall archery turkeys are taken by opportunistic deer hunters who are lucky enough to hide their draw from 20 feet up a tree. Also, for those who actually attempt to hunt turkeys on the ground, ground blinds are an almost (I did say "almost" gwhilli so don't jump on me) absolute necessity. Although I'm not familiar enough w/ xbows to know for sure, it seems that, like shotgun hunting, a xbow hunter can get by without a ground blind.

Again, I've got over 40 hunters on two clubs in Ky. 90% hunt from ground blinds in the fall and it's growing for the spring hunt. People use what works.

Opportunistic deer/turkey hunter exist, but never kill many turkeys. that won't change with the x-bow in use.

Statistics are kept for a reason. Compound and x-bow statistics are indentical for all practical purposes.

[kevhunter]

That's OK, skin, I can live with your wrath.

As for Jimmy, he's just being Jimmy. Relaying what ever message Jim Strader wants put out. You can believe it if you want. His opinion of modern x-bows is crap. Others on here have had much different experiences then what he posted. Having sold a few x-bow set ups in the past couple of years, I can tell you that you are wrong. The average set-up will be over $500 and very similar to what the high end compounds will run. You have a poor opinion of other sportsmen for some reason???
Multi, whatever is one word, just trying to help

[Multidigits]

Multi, whatever is one word, just trying to help

Jesus fricken christ....are you a school teacher! Who cares if I'm a dumb a$$

[CM12]

Jesus fricken christ....are you a school teacher! Who cares if I'm a dumb a$$



:( Jesus is the Good Shepherd, He cares.

[kycurhunter]

wish we could voice our opinions by email...

if anyone knows where this is possible email me.

glshub@nctc.com

[joekat46]

Looks like the bullies have arrived. It probably would be a good idea to contact your commissioner/commissionors and express your opinions. If you do use e mail spell everything correctly and use proper punctuation. You don't want to look like a dunce. Be sure and throw in a little intimidation - commissioner/commissionors really will love a veiled threat.

I think you just changed a few minds here "kevhunter". I don't think they changed over to your team. Boo!

Off the "air" for the evening. Back in the morning. I can't wait to see how this all turns out.

[Multidigits]

wish we could voice our opinions by email...

if anyone knows where this is possible email me.

glshub@nctc.com

Only one or two of them give out their email addresses.

[Multidigits]

just for the record Multi...we dont care if you are a dumba$$...and dont really care about you at all.........:eek:

Well Shucks!

[DUOGLIDE]

i dont think kevhunter is trying to changing minds i think he like most of us who do more reading than posting is tired of some thinking their opinion is the only one that matters and is just giving back what some like to give out

[Multidigits]

i dont think kevhunter is trying to changing minds i think he like most of us who do more reading than posting is tired of some thinking their opinion is the only one that matters and is just giving back what some like to give out

Did you call your commission rep., being that your always so pleased with what they do?

[DUOGLIDE]

i never said i was always pleased with what the commission does and on the crossbow issue i personally dont care either way but if my post touched a nerve i hope it wasnt your last one. actually i will see my commission member at the federation meeting on the 2nd i havent missed many in the past 20 years (hope i spelled every thing correctly)

[gwhilikerz]

When there is no blood to track.. it is hard to track. Bolts going further than 20 yards lose much more kinetic energy and ONE MORE TIME..The noise is the problem beyond the 20 yard mark. Not one single Crossbow EXPERT has been able to help me make my Horton Crossbow any quieter. At that point... the noise is faster than the bow and allows the deer to react. This reaction CHANGES the shot.
The bow has a 150 pound draw. I can shoot squirrels with it at 25 yards regularly. It is extremely accurate and does kill when used PROPERLY. The problem is not only the learning curve, but the increase in the take of Bucks in the State as well as the increase in Turkey Harvest.
Do I have an agenda. Yes, I dont like this idea of crossbows during the ENTIRE bow season. As a hunter licensed in the State of Kentucky, I am ENTITLED to have an opinion on how this will change the deer hunt AND the Turkey Hunt. I feel it will change the structure of the take of deer when you consider the current percentages. THIS YEAR is the first year that we have gotten the percentages where we want them. WHY change this now. It aint Broke so WHY fix it. This same proposition was turned down by Fish and Wildlife several years ago. NO ONE has asked for this change, no organization has requested it.. so why make the change.
As for the NWTF, I am not familiar with the observation that they are for this. The Fellow members I have talked to do not agree with this new regulation.
I'm not going to comment on anything other than to say that there seems to be a distance at which deer more frequently jump the string. I have found that between 20 and 30 yards a deer is much more likely to jump. Any closer and there isn't time for the deer to react. Any farther and the deer tends to look before he leaps. This distance may be different for a superfast compound but my bows are older models and not so fast. It stands to reason the xbows would be about the same.

[gwhilikerz]

I tell a story about a giant tom that came to my bait pile 3 seasons ago. He was the best bird I've ever seen. He was less than 15 yards away and I had several occasions to draw on him becasue there was a giant oak between him and I and as he would walk behind it it would've been easy to draw and shoot. I didn't though. I didn't have a fall tag and I wasn't gonna shoot him over a bait pile. With that said, I've told the story to many people and probably 80 percent if not more said they would've shot him! These are hunters that are mostly legit, some of them post on here, some of them are close friends and hunting buddies. They may have been trying to sound tuff, they may have been blowing smoke. I just feel that many people that are otherwise lawabiding would slip on occasion and do this, regardless of weapon. Add to the scenario a 4 1/2 month season with a weapon you don't have to draw and the numbers of turkeys killed will go up substantially.
Yep you just proved it. You're in the top 20% of hunters. The rest of us 80% are just would-be poachers, cause you said so.

[gwhilikerz]

Multi, whatever is one word, just trying to help
Always good to hear inteligent input. btw did I spell everything ok?

[skin_dog1]

I don't think I've ever talked to you or told you the story. I simply stated the reponses I had to the people I had told the story to. Take it how you want. I know I've slipped and got caught up in the moment, I'm sure you have not. If you have will you admit it on a public forum? Probably not.Yep you just proved it. You're in the top 20% of hunters. The rest of us 80% are just would-be poachers, cause you said so.

[Multidigits]

i never said i was always pleased with what the commission does and on the crossbow issue i personally dont care either way but if my post touched a nerve i hope it wasnt your last one. actually i will see my commission member at the federation meeting on the 2nd i havent missed many in the past 20 years (hope i spelled every thing correctly)

Yeah, but some might point out that you lack proper punctuation and how to use capital letter....not that I give a crap.