Savage ML w/smokeless powder

[Tony]

Are the Savage muzzleloaders that use smokeless powder legal to use in Ky.Couldn't find anything in the reg. book about them.

[Multidigits]

Tony--I remember at one time they were tinkering with banning the use of smokeless powder but not the Savage ml itself. I don't know for sure if they got it done or not. But to answer the question, the gun itself would be legal, the powder charge would need to be a black powder or a black powder substitute(prodex).

[ahood]

I have shot the Savage and it shoots great! I think if the havent yet they should ban the smokeless guns because they are UNSAFE! We really dont know what that powder is going to do to the gun in the long run.

-Andy

Hunting is not a matter of life or death. It is much more important than that!

[Salty]

A couple of seasons ago, Savage made a big deal of being able to shoot SOME smokelss powders in their guns........haven't seen that claim in their ads for awhile. I would think the biggest cause of concern for them is not their guns, but some yokel who doesn't read instructions trying to copy the load in his 1978 home made kit gun. Some dummy really would and then hire a lawyer!

[Flintlock54]

Herein lies the problem with the Savage ML. I was up at the Cave Run shooting range back in October. A young shooter was setting up to shoot when I noticed him getting out his powder IMR. His gun was a Knight Disc. I stopped shooting and we got to talking. I discovered he was a new shooter, (to muzzleloading) clueless as to what he was doing. He had read on the internet about load developement for Savage and thought he could do it with his Knight. I explained to him the error of his ways.

I gave him a powder measure and an opened can of Pyrodex RS and before I left he was getting 4" groups at 100 yards. I told him to play around with the types of bullet/sabot combinations and he could get those groups down to size.

[Multidigits]

Yeah...but I don't see it in the guide. Did they get it passed or not????

[Flintlock54]

I was told that in the March 2001 Commission meeting you could use the gun but not modern smokless powder during "blackpowder seasons". Have not seen anything in writing.

[ahood]

I dont think smokeless powder should be legal, but it is not "blackpowder season" its "muzzleloader season". The savage is still a muzzleloader so I think they should clear that up before they do anything!

-Andy

Hunting is not a matter of life or death. It is much more important than that!

[Multidigits]

I'll check on it and see what they say. Might take afew days to get an answer.

[Multidigits]

OK, guys hee's the Official word from Fish and Wildlife. The ban never happened. It was proposed and the Commission shot it down.

So, you can use the Savage with smokeless if you want too.

Tony--you planning on getting one???? I'm mulling over a new one myself for that bean field area. I'm trying to decide between the .45 or the .50. What are you thinking???

[Flintlock54]

That's bad. It give the shooter an unfair advantage. Modern smokeless powder does not fall prey to dampness or humidty as easily as black powder and these substitute powders can cry big tears in damp weather.

[Tony]

Tom,a friend of mine just got one in .50 cal. to hunt Indiana with so it got me curious.He is working up a load for it .He said that from what he has read he should be able to get accurracy at 250-300 yds.That would givee it a little more range than my Encore 209x50. If he can show me that it will work I might have to get one.I'll try to keep you up to date on his progress.

[Multidigits]

What do they use for powder...shotgun powders???? Sure would make cleaning better, I guess.

Looks like it about $360 in blue, $400 in SS

The ad says 2,300 fps - 3,000 kenetic energy

I don't see it listed in a .45 cal.

[Flintlock54]

Multi:
If you do a search on one of the search engines for Dougs muzzleloading message board, he has an entire board dedicated to the Model 10-ll.
Good luck!

Here is the site:

http://www.dream-tools.com/tools/messages.mv?index+savagemuzzleloader

[Multidigits]

Thanks. I'm wasn't really thinking about the Savage rifle until Tony brought it up. Soon as I get one, they'd pass the resolution banning the thing!

[Huntaholic]

I got one 2 years ago and I LOVE IT! You folks need to remember that it is STILL A MUZZLELOADER. One shot is still all you get! Mine has performed perfectly. it shoots every bit as good as or maybe better than my Knights. Energy far exceeds any other MZ on the market, and on top of all this, there is NO MESS! ANyone who handloads their own ammunition will love it.
For those who say it will be abused and cause serious bodily injury to someone who has no knowledge of muzzleloaders, answer me this: What keeps those same IDIOTS from cramming a .270 round into a 30/06 and firing it off? What about a 243 in a 308? At some point we have to assume that the person behind the gun has done a little research and can follow directions!

[Wildcat]

Glad I found this. I was told last summer at the gun shop by my County Co that lives down the road from me that it was against the reg to use Smokeless Power in an MZ while deer hunting. I'll stop by his house tomorrow.

I had read on another forum that last year at a range in Georga two guys ended up in the hospital when one of their MZ's blew up. It truns out he was using Smokeless Power in his Knight.

[Multidigits]

That fellow is wrong. That's how rumors get started. The Savage is legal with any available powder. The Commission correctly decided that you can't regulate idiots and prevent them from making stupid mistakes. It was equated to putting a 16 ga. shell in a 12 ga., it's not unlawful to do so, only unwise.

[Wildcat]

Come on Multidiqits, I wasn't trying to start a rumor, just posting what a CO told me. Like I said he told me that last summer and you didn't find out your info until Jan. 8,2003. That's a 6 months difference. I wasn't trying to start something, I was going by what the CO told me then. If a CO tells me something I think might be wrong, what am I suppose to do?? He's the one that can give me a ticket then I'll have to pay a lawyer to get it straighten out. That brings up another point, with you being a Moderator for Kentucky Hunting.com and a mistake was made and I got the wrong info then got a ticket do I sue Kentucky Hunting.com?? I'll debate QDM, policy, seasons, guns, bows, etc. But I don't want to break any laws and have to pay for it.

My family has known that CO for more than 30 years, he's one of the good guys. He would rather tell someone wrong and play it safe than give them a ticket. Anyway I'm going to stop by his house later this morning and see what he has to say.

[Multidigits]

OK wildcat, I can only guess, but I doubt that you would have grounds for law suit because you got wrong info over the Internet. The old saying "Ignorance of the law is not an excuse" might apply here as well. Besides that, I'm only a Moderator for the Cyberhunter threads and you didn't get the info from that thread. The info I posted about the muzzleloader came from the #2 in charge. I've found if you want good info, start at the top and work down, that way your butt is covered if you have problems.

[Wildcat]

Talked to the CO this morning and he told me at the time we talked about it, early summer, KDFW thought it would pass but like Mulit said it didn't. Sorry if I got anyone mixed up. I was going by what the Game Warden told me.

[Multidigits]

I ordered one of them today. I'll let you know how she shoots in about 2 weeks.

[RandyWakeman]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Multidigits</i>
<br />I ordered one of them today. I'll let you know how she shoots in about 2 weeks.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

What do you think?

Randy Wakeman

[Multidigits]

Still unfired. I need some time to lap the barrel and work up a load. I'll get to it after turkey season.

Here's a good link with info: http://www.dream-tools.com/tools/messages.mv?index+savagemuzzleloader+

[crawdaddy]

i am going to buy one of these guns. i was wondering if you guys could post me up some sites where i can buy them from for the best prices. thank you !!!

[54 Muzzle]

I don't know about the savage but i have used smokeless powder with my 50 and 54 cal.I really like it.Never had any problems with moister.I go bear hunting in Arkansas every year and use it.Once I load my muzzleloaders they are not emptied out till I'm ready to leave or I have a chance to shoot.

[crawdaddy]

uhmmmm im pretty sure u shouldnt use smokless powder in any other gun than a savage. so if u dont have a savage and are shooting smokless powder you may run into a lil problem or get hurt very badly...

[crawdaddy]

54 muzzle do not shoot that gun with smokless powder. there is a good chance you could kill yourself only savages shoot smokless!

[54 Muzzle]

Thats all i use.I have killed a deer every year that I've smokeless powder..It is alot better than pirodex!!!!!!!! I've had more miss fires on that than anything.Sorry folks that what i use and will use.

[Multidigits]

Scary!!!!!..one reason why the KYDFW wanted to outlaw smokeless powder in front loaders a few years ago.

[aceoky]

I'm with you Multidigits! The pressure from a *small* amount of
smokeless powder in a frontloader can easily reach over 100,000 cup(copper units of pressure)....why you may ask? The larger projectile( how many smokeless rifles shoot that heavy of a bullet?).....look in any reloading manual and you'll notice as bullet weight goes upward the powder charge is reduced..to avoid pressure problems...and that's in a modern centerfire rifle/pistol..made for this pressure..Now keep in mind the .308 is ONLY rated for 52,000 cup....

With that in mind I'd NEVER use smokeless powder in any muzzleloader unless it's made to do so(the savage is...within limits)... I guess all that we can do is warn ....and hope that it's heeded....[:(]

IMHO any advantage gained by doing so....is NOT worth the risk involved... that's a great deal of heat and pressure.....IF it fails on you(the rifle or the barrel either one) ....you'll either be SERIOUSLY injured or killed...that's a bet I am not going to take..

Reloaders Haul Brass!

[Wildcat]

I heard on the local news the other day that a 18 year old guy got killed sighting in his MZ in Southern Ill. He was using modern smokeless power in his Knight MZ. The barrel blew up and part of it went into his brain killing him.

[aceoky]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Wildcat</i>
<br />I heard on the local news the other day that a 18 year old guy got killed sighting in his MZ in Southern Ill. He was using modern smokeless power in his Knight MZ. The barrel blew up and part of it went into his brain killing him.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

That is SO sad!!.....I also heard about the time savage
came out with their smokeless powder MZ that a guy in Georgia tried smokeless in a knight and the bolt blew back through part of his face.....he lived(last I heard)...but he's forever disfigured.....agian NOT worth it.....PERIOD...because it's been done(and it shouldn't have been).....doesn't mean it's in the least bit safe to do.....I fear these stories will only grow as people *think*....it's "OK" ...they say in their own manuals ....."USE ONLY BLACK POWDER....OR THEIR SUBSTITUTES".... "nuff said...ONLY means just that.....

I hope these messages will keep EVERYONE from doing it....most likely it will NOT....but if it saves one's life....it's worth my effort....and that's what it's all about....

Hunt SAFE......hunt often...take a younger one hunting with you(even if you don't have them)....it's worth the effort....we(hunters) are a dying breed...this CAN be changed....get more women/children to understand what it's all about.....and it WILL.....[:)]

Reloaders Haul Brass!

[RDL270]

I just read in IL deer hunting guide where smokeless powder is banned during thier ML season. I assume the above post is the reason.

54 Muzzle, if your gun says blackpowder only, I would be using blackpowder only. Your widow would not have a any legal rights if your not following the manufactures warnings. THe advice given on here is very sound.