Weed problem in food plot

[breckinridge]

Hello I am new to the forum I hunt in Breckinridge county. I planted about 2 1/2 acres of Monster mix this past spring and it came up decent and the deer have been tearing it up. I just think that there is to many weeds in it I didn't spray anything before I planted it but I did disc and plow it really good. I think that it needs to be thicker but I don't know how I can plant more seed when the the weeds fill in the gaps. I was wondering if anyone knew a good weed killer I could spray that would not kill my clover or chickory or any kind of method that would allow me to plant the extra seed. My grandpa said that next year the clover will come in thick and choke most of the weeds out but I don't know.

[Okie]

and Grandpa is right. Clover should thicken some---unless the plot gets over grazed. Don't fret over the weeds-- deer like a lot of them just fine.

[Multidigits]

I doubt the clover will out grow the weeds. You probably have a PH problem. You need to test it in several places and get a bunch of lime on it. If you keep the PH up, the weeds won't like it. If those weeds are in fact grass, then you'll need to spray something that will kill grass but not clover, or redo the plot. The redo may be cheaper depending on the size of the area. Clover plots won't last long unless you keep a high PH in the soil.

[breckinridge]

The PH is fine I had the soil tested back in the spring and we put out about 5 tons of lime. I am also going to add some more at the end of the winter. So your telling me that the weeds don't grow good in high ph soil?

[Multidigits]

You need to soil test again, after the lime. Could be that 5 tons wasn't eneough? Weeds are normally acid loving plants.

[Feedman]

You could overseed some clover in February in the thin spots.

[sassafrastea]

I don't know what *Monster Mix* is but I do know that not all *weeds* are undesireable in terms of supporting wildlife or even for human consumption. Ever have dandelion greens in your salad? :)

If I were you, I would find out exactly what *weeds* I was dealing with, and then move on from there. Are they annual *weeds* or perennial *weeds*? Are they warm season *weeds* or cool season *weeds*? Are they invasive, or not? Alot of what most people consider *weeds* are actually very beneficial to wildlife (and humans). Alot of them are *herbs* that provide things that *just* clover, or alfalfa, or whatever single crop you are planting, can't provide.

Multi is right in that many of these *weeds* require an acidic environment in order to thrive. As far as the liming goes, it takes awhile for the lime to take effect. If the land hasn't been limed in a long time, and is very acidic, it might require more than just one treatment of lime, *if* you want to have a pure clover patch.

If you want to strengthen the stand of clover, or interject another planting of something else, you could try drilling the seed in, that way it has better contact with the soil and therefore a better chance of germination and success. Personally I would prefer a *mix* of something (diversity), rather than a pure stand of anything.

[cpe]

Broadlead weeds will often become a problem in clover plots even if the pH is 6.5 or higher. Grass can become a problem also. Both can do well in acidic or neutral soil.
The cheapest thing to try first thing in the spring is to mow the plot down to abou 4-6 inches. The clover will often grow faster than the weeds or grass and "crowd out" the weeds and grass. This will also work in the summer. We mow our plots 2 to 4 times per year. If you still have a problem with grass, spray Poast (or Poast Plus on it) or Vantage. It will kill most grass but will not kill clover (or weeds). If you have a broadleaf weed problem, spray 2-4,D-B (Butyrac). It will kill most broadleaf weeds but will not kill clover (or grass).
Butyrac will probably kill your chicory though.

[breckinridge]

Well thank you for your alls suggestion. CPE I mow it also and it did help out alot but i still don't think I will be able to seed it just by mowing it. I have no way of drilling the seed in and I thought about paost but I didn't know if that would hurt my chickory or not. The deer love that chickory this time of year they are tearing it up. I guess I will just mow it and maybe try paost. It seems to me that it is just grasses and things I don't know maybe the deer enjoy it to . I was just wanting to plant it thicker or mix in something else with it.

[skin_dog1]

What they are recommending is that you frost seed the clover. Sow your seed in winter on top of the ground while it's still frozen. The freezing/thawing will work the seed into the soil, essentially "drilling" it in.

[sassafrastea]

We don't own a seed drill but where I live we can rent one from the John Deere place. Like skin dog said you can also frost seed, but IMO you won't get as high a germination rate as if you drilled it. You can take samples of whatever *weed* is growing there, to your extension agent, and he/she should be able to idenify it for you, and tell you how to control it, and whether it is worth keeping or not. Truthfully, I would do that before I did anything else to your crop. I definitely don't think you want to kill the chicory. JMO

[WBBP]

You should always try to plant your clover in the fall. Clover and other food plots planted in the spring are really subject to a lot of pressure from weeds. The weed pressure is lower in the fall. I am all for weeds in the right places, but my foodplots are not one of them.

Mix in 50 lbs of wheat/acre with the clover. The wheat will be a decent food for deer during the fall/winter. The next spring, the wheat will head out and produce enough shade for the clover to thrive in, but keep most of the weeds out.

Bushhog the food plot 2-3 times/year and never let the weeds produce seed. Fertilize in the spring.

Good luck.

K

[cpe]

Weeds and grasses can always be dealt with if the problem arises. Planting is spring is excellent around here. In the deep South, the plant in the fall because summer is often to hot /and/or dry for the young clover plants. I always plant clover in the spring in our region. And I don't put any cover crop, like wheat or oats, with it. The clover will thicken faster without the root competition from the wheat or oats. One ladino plant can produce a root system 2 or 3 feet in diameter producing hundres of stems with the 3 or 4 leaves on them. When other plants are in the clover plot, the clover roots have a harder time of expanding and filling in the plot. Cover crops can help attract deer faster for fall planted clover plots, but be careful and seed very lightly. I find it is just not worth it. The less competition you have in the plot of ladino, the more likely you are to get 4 or 5 years, even 7 years out of it before replanting. Plus, the clover is more nutritious and more attractive than the cover crop.

[WBBP]

CPE: Thanks for your insight and technical details. There are trade-offs when planting clover in the spring versus fall. I agree that the wheat does limit the full potential of the clover roots to develop initially, but so do the weeds that you will surely have if you plant in the Spring. For most people, applying a herbecide to a food plot is just another time/equipment/money eater that you can avoid by planting in the fall.

I usually get from 4-5 years out of my clover and sometimes longer. All my 32 clover plots were planted in the fall. I would only plant in the spring if I had to. I also beleive that when planting in the spring, you incurr more risks such as drought or excesive rain, plus you have a shorter window to plant due to summer temperatures knocking on the door. It is just about impossible to screw up a food plot that you plant in the fall. I planted 9 plots this fall that didn't receive rain for 52 days after I planted them. They are beautiful now.

I usually overseed my plots every other winter also and am a big believer in frost seeding.

K

[breckinridge]

Well planting in the fall is not an option because the plot is already planted and I am definently not replanting the whole plot. I will reseed it thought but lets say I plant it on top of the snow and when it melts the seed germinates and starts to grow well what happens when it snows again because I am in Kentucky and the way its has been we could have 80 degree weather for 2 weeks and then all of a sudden in the begining of May we have 20 degree weather and 6 in. of snow and that happens every single year it seems like. So wouldn't that kill the clover that started to grow. and if I wait until after the frost treat is gone to reseed then the weeds are back and there are no bare spots. So really I guess the only option I have is to fertilize and lime again and hope the clover chokes some of it out.

[WBBP]

Not going to germinate if it gets wet when the snow melts or the air temp rises. It will germinate when the soil temp is right this spring.

Go ahead and overseed with confidence. Get your herbicide ready for spring!

Good luck!

[breckinridge]

So how do you go about frost seeding then?

[Feedman]

the best time to Frost Seed Clover is in the "Dark Moon" of February. If you are sowing with a hand seeder set the opening to the amount of seed per acre, turn the crank and start walking.

[Multidigits]

[QUOTE=Feedman]the best time to Frost Seed Clover is in the "Dark Moon" of February. If you are sowing with a hand seeder set the opening to the amount of seed per acre, turn the crank and start walking.[/QUOTE


.....before the frost melts

[breckinridge]

So do I do it over snow or just if the ground is frosted over..... And this will get the seed in the bard spots and the seed will not germinate until spring hits and the weather is warm enough.

[Multidigits]

Wait till Feburary. You don't know if your going to have snow in Feb. yet. If you get a chance to get it out before a snow, it'll work OK. If you put on top of the snow, it'll end up as bird poop.